Another Premillennial absurdity

[rwb]

90% Truth = "When we are alive in Christ, having been born again, born from above, spiritual re-birth from spiritual death to spiritually alive in Him, we are of the "first resurrection" because we have part in the resurrection of Christ, Who is the first to be resurrected from the dead."

You are missing something here = SEE Post 1,894 = SEE the very words of LJC

The FIRST Resurrection is LJC, which we now are Living IN thru being BORN- AGAIN by the Eternal Spirit of God.
the part you are excluding is the FACT that your physical body is cursed to death by God and that body must die and be discarded.

Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption.

TODAY, hear His Voice thru the Living Words of God = the Holy Scriptures

But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. 22For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be(future tense) made alive.
23But each in his own turn: Christ the firstfruits; then at His coming, those who belong to Him.

HIS Second Coming = First Resurrection of the Dead in Christ and the living who belong to HIM

How can we be part of the first resurrection through Christ physically since our body will not be resurrected immortal and incorruptible until the last day? John sees living souls in heaven as Paul says a spiritual body. Yes, our physical bodies are destined to die, that's why the first resurrection is spiritual and not physical. Because when we have been born from above we possess eternal life, and shall never die. Why are you trying to force the first resurrection, of which Christ is into the bodily resurrection that shall not be until this age of TIME is no more?

You make no distinction between our spiritual re-birth through the first resurrection of Christ for all who have been made spiritually alive, and the bodily resurrection that shall be when the last trump sounds that TIME for this age shall be no longer? You present both the spiritual first resurrection and the physical resurrection when the last trump sounds as two physical resurrections separated by ONE thousand years. You are refusing to accept what the Scripture affirms. The only way to have life everlasting, even after our body succumbs to physical death is to have part in Christ, because He is the "first resurrection" for those made spiritually alive in Him in TIME. And the life we receive through His first resurrection is eternal, and shall not suffer the second death.

 

[rwb]

100% TRUTH = 1 Thess 4:13-18 = all of it = not just a part of it

You, @WPM are 100% Correct that we (our spirit/soul) have been Born-Again by the Eternal SPIRIT of CHRIST = First Resurrection

The FIRST Resurrection is not COMPLETED until HIS Second Coming = 1 Thess 4:13-18 , Rev ch2 & Rev ch19-ch20

Are you able to SEE this?

The first resurrection through Christ, according to Scripture comes the moment we believe! That is when our spirit that was "dead in trespass and sins" is made alive by the resurrection life of Christ. When we receive His Spirit through new birth from above the spirit in man returns to God who gave it ALIVE. If this is not truth Christ would not have said, "He who lives and believes in me shall never die." What is not complete until the last trump sounds and time given this age shall be no longer is the resurrection of our physical body from mortal to immortal and corruptible to incorruptible. That's when the living souls returning with Christ from heaven will be reunited with our new bodies of flesh to inherit the new earth eternally. Paul proves this in 1Th 4.

Are you able to understand this?

 

[rwb]

100% TRUTH except this part "new earth"
You said: "Believers do not grieve in death, because we KNOW with blessed assurance that death will not keep us from being alive in heaven with the Lord when our body dies. And we KNOW that when the last trump sounds that time for this Gospel age shall be no longer, Christ will return with all who are alive with Him in heaven. And our physical body will be resurrected and changed (along with the bodies of the faithful saints still alive) to be reunited with our living spiritual body. Once again being made complete and without sin and death we shall be with Christ forever on the new earth."

100% TRUTH except this part "new earth"

The NEW Earth only comes AFTER the 1,000 Year Reign on this current earth = Revelation chapters 20 - 22

Can you SEE this from God's Word in Revelation chapters 19 -22?

Once TIME, likened a thousand years shall be no longer there will not be another ONE thousand literal years of time given this earth. You should be able to understand this since you agree the first resurrection is the resurrection of Christ we must have part in to overcome the second death. We must have part in Christ in TIME, during this age! You will never understand the truth presented in Scripture until you understand the binding of Satan and a thousand years run concurrently, and represent TIME given this age to proclaim the Gospel unto all the earth. When this symbolic TIME is finished the only time left is for Satan to have his "little season" to gather together Gog (antichrists) and Magog (antichristians) for their destruction by the fire of God from heaven.

 

[Timtofly]

1. So, according to you, turning your back on Jesus is not sin?
2. Embracing Satan and becoming a follower of him is not sin?
3. Mobilizing in Satan's army to destroy "the camp of the saints" is not sin?
4. Show me one single Scripture that teaches that the glorified saints procreate in the age to come?

Now you are just avoiding any point I have made and changing the direction of thought. If all you have is a list of questions like some bully raising moot points, then you have nothing to defend, except your own imagination.

I keep telling you glorified saints have not procreated since your first resurrection 2,000 years ago. Those in the future Millennium are not glorified saints. You are not even acknowledging that your own age to come started at the Cross, yet that is what you teach as the first resurrection.

Since the Cross there are no spiritually dead in Christ souls in Paradise. They are physically no longer on earth. But you conflate the spiritual and physical to the point you don't even know the difference. You don't even accept all currently in Paradise are no longer in a state of death. They have already experienced the first resurrection. They all have permanent incorruptible physical bodies. They don't procreate in Paradise. They are like the angels.

That stipulation is not placed on the Second Coming firstfruits who will never physically die. But they are changed out of Adam's dead corruptible flesh, and given permanent incorruptible physical bodies free of sin and death. Sin will not enter the Millennium Kingdom. Being dead in Christ is physical, not spiritual. Those procreating in the Millennium are not physically dead. The first resurrection is a physical resurrection out of physical death. The second birth is the spiritual placement into the family of God out of spiritual darkness. One has to be born spiritually before a spiritual death. But that was Adam's condition and never those born into Adam's condition. Those who remain unredeemed in the LOF will have never stopped being in Adam's condition.

You don't even accept a future millennium. How would you know what is even disobedience in that Millennium? You are projecting Adam's condition onto a future that has had Adam's condition totally removed. You can explain to me how the sheep and wheat that Jesus taught about are not redeemed out of Adam's dead corruptible flesh, but are still sinners for the rest of eternity. They are never resurrected, because they are never physically killed. No Scriptures declare they are physically killed. They cannot represent dead people either. That is not a given. That is something you add to Scripture as a human doctrine.

 

[rwb]

This is where your confusion is = you are mixing two separate TRUTHS into one.

You said: "Paul has already said that when the body of believers is dead, we are present with the Lord. Now Paul shows us how we are present with the Lord in heaven when we physically die in Him. In death believers shall be like the heavenly bodies (celestial), who, as spiritual body bear the image of the Lord from heaven, heavenly bodies. That's why Christ tells us in the resurrection we shall be as the angels of God in heaven, spiritual beings, because God is not the God of the dead, but of the living. This is why Paul writes that flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God (in heaven), neither does corruption (mortal & corruptible physical flesh) inherit the Kingdom of God on the new earth."

100% Truth = "Paul has already said that when the body of believers is dead, we are present with the Lord. Now Paul shows us how we are present with the Lord in heaven when we physically die in Him."

100% Error = The part you are in error is assuming the Saints in heaven are given thier New Glorified Bodies.

100% Truth = We are NOT given our Glorified Bodies until the FIRST Resurrection.

Go back and read Revelation = NO Glorified bodies given until chapter 20


Rev ch6
And when the Lamb opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony they had upheld. 10And they cried out in a loud voice, “How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You avenge our blood and judge those who dwell upon the earth?”

11Then each of them was given a white robe and told to rest a little while longer, until the full number of their fellow servants, their brothers, were killed, just as they had been killed.

No David, saints will not receive our immortal and incorruptible physical body until the bodily resurrection and change when the last trump sounds that time shall be no longer. Paul shows us that when the physical body of believers die our spirit leaves, and as spiritual body we go to heaven alive; living souls. That is what John's vision shows him. Martyred saints alive in heaven after death because in TIME a thousand years they lived and reigned with Christ.

Rev 6 proves what I've been saying. Those souls could not ascend to heaven until Christ came and defeated sin and death.

 

[WPM]

How can we be part of the first resurrection through Christ physically since our body will not be resurrected immortal and incorruptible until the last day? John sees living souls in heaven as Paul says a spiritual body. Yes, our physical bodies are destined to die, that's why the first resurrection is spiritual and not physical. Because when we have been born from above we possess eternal life, and shall never die. Why are you trying to force the first resurrection, of which Christ is into the bodily resurrection that shall not be until this age of TIME is no more?

You make no distinction between our spiritual re-birth through the first resurrection of Christ for all who have been made spiritually alive, and the bodily resurrection that shall be when the last trump sounds that TIME for this age shall be no longer? You present both the spiritual first resurrection and the physical resurrection when the last trump sounds as two physical resurrections separated by ONE thousand years. You are refusing to accept what the Scripture affirms. The only way to have life everlasting, even after our body succumbs to physical death is to have part in Christ, because He is the "first resurrection" for those made spiritually alive in Him in TIME. And the life we receive through His first resurrection is eternal, and shall not suffer the second death.

Exactly bro. These are two distinct resurrections!

 

[Timtofly]

What do you mean "a thought of disobedience"? That is ridiculous, and you know it. What book are you going by? This is a global uprising that results in the redeemed surrounding the righteous, and involves billions of wicked millennial inhabitants (as the sand of the sea).

These millennial actors inherit a new earth supposedly ruled by Christ and the saints in righteousness with a rod of iron. They are confronted at every turn with the myriads of glorified redeemed that have populated the earth in their perfect bodies and are walking proof of the ongoing reality and truth of the reigning Christ yet these millennial rebels choose to walk in their rebellion.

These millennial mortals must qualify to be the most belligerent, stiff-necked, hard-nosed, stubborn, obstinate company of humans ever to grace this earth. They are way more intransigent than the Pharisees that only had 3 ½ years of resisting the person and ministry in his mortal body. For 1,000 years they refuse to receive the glorified Christ sitting in all His eternal majesty. How could they resist Him? How could they deny His authenticity?

That is you imagined opinion of this future millennium. That is not found in Scripture.

You do realize that billions of angels turned against God and followed Satan. Are you going to declare God a failure, because so many have rejected Him?

You don't even have a clue of what percentage these deceived people make up. We know that 33% of the angels turned on a dime and were deceived by Satan. You are being overly dramatic to state a point that will never negate the future Millennium. That a third of the angels rebelled does not prove the Millennium will not happen after the Second Coming. That a few billion rebel out of tens of billions is not proof the Millennium is a failure and thus should not be allowed to take place.

These humans are consumed by fire before they can act out their thoughts. So, yes, it is a thought that makes them rebels, not the point they had to march across the breadth of the earth. They would have still been consumed by fire if they sat at home and still followed after and been deceived by Satan, yet did nothing. Deception is in the mind, before any action takes place. Was that not the points you, yourself made about acting upon sin. That still is not proof these people were born that way. They changed after being deceived by Satan.

 

[WPM]

Now you are just avoiding any point I have made and changing the direction of thought. If all you have is a list of questions like some bully raising moot points, then you have nothing to defend, except your own imagination.

I keep telling you glorified saints have not procreated since your first resurrection 2,000 years ago. Those in the future Millennium are not glorified saints. You are not even acknowledging that your own age to come started at the Cross, yet that is what you teach as the first resurrection.

Since the Cross there are no spiritually dead in Christ souls in Paradise. They are physically no longer on earth. But you conflate the spiritual and physical to the point you don't even know the difference. You don't even accept all currently in Paradise are no longer in a state of death. They have already experienced the first resurrection. They all have permanent incorruptible physical bodies. They don't procreate in Paradise. They are like the angels.

That stipulation is not placed on the Second Coming firstfruits who will never physically die. But they are changed out of Adam's dead corruptible flesh, and given permanent incorruptible physical bodies free of sin and death. Sin will not enter the Millennium Kingdom. Being dead in Christ is physical, not spiritual. Those procreating in the Millennium are not physically dead. The first resurrection is a physical resurrection out of physical death. The second birth is the spiritual placement into the family of God out of spiritual darkness. One has to be born spiritually before a spiritual death. But that was Adam's condition and never those born into Adam's condition. Those who remain unredeemed in the LOF will have never stopped being in Adam's condition.

You don't even accept a future millennium. How would you know what is even disobedience in that Millennium? You are projecting Adam's condition onto a future that has had Adam's condition totally removed. You can explain to me how the sheep and wheat that Jesus taught about are not redeemed out of Adam's dead corruptible flesh, but are still sinners for the rest of eternity. They are never resurrected, because they are never physically killed. No Scriptures declare they are physically killed. They cannot represent dead people either. That is not a given. That is something you add to Scripture as a human doctrine.

LOL. You are a master at avoidance. You have obviously nothing to support your error. This sums up your theology. I will try again using your own words re the glorified. I totally understand why you will not answer because it exposes your whole theology.

1. So, according to you, turning your back on Jesus is not sin?
2. Embracing Satan and becoming a follower of him is not sin?
3. Mobilizing in Satan's army to destroy "the camp of the saints" is not sin?
4. Please show us one Scripture that teaches that believers in "permanent incorruptible physical bodies" marry and procreate on the earth after the second coming?

 

[WPM]

Now you are just avoiding any point I have made and changing the direction of thought. If all you have is a list of questions like some bully raising moot points, then you have nothing to defend, except your own imagination.

I keep telling you glorified saints have not procreated since your first resurrection 2,000 years ago. Those in the future Millennium are not glorified saints. You are not even acknowledging that your own age to come started at the Cross, yet that is what you teach as the first resurrection.

Since the Cross there are no spiritually dead in Christ souls in Paradise. They are physically no longer on earth. But you conflate the spiritual and physical to the point you don't even know the difference. You don't even accept all currently in Paradise are no longer in a state of death. They have already experienced the first resurrection. They all have permanent incorruptible physical bodies. They don't procreate in Paradise. They are like the angels.

That stipulation is not placed on the Second Coming firstfruits who will never physically die. But they are changed out of Adam's dead corruptible flesh, and given permanent incorruptible physical bodies free of sin and death. Sin will not enter the Millennium Kingdom. Being dead in Christ is physical, not spiritual. Those procreating in the Millennium are not physically dead. The first resurrection is a physical resurrection out of physical death. The second birth is the spiritual placement into the family of God out of spiritual darkness. One has to be born spiritually before a spiritual death. But that was Adam's condition and never those born into Adam's condition. Those who remain unredeemed in the LOF will have never stopped being in Adam's condition.

You don't even accept a future millennium. How would you know what is even disobedience in that Millennium? You are projecting Adam's condition onto a future that has had Adam's condition totally removed. You can explain to me how the sheep and wheat that Jesus taught about are not redeemed out of Adam's dead corruptible flesh, but are still sinners for the rest of eternity. They are never resurrected, because they are never physically killed. No Scriptures declare they are physically killed. They cannot represent dead people either. That is not a given. That is something you add to Scripture as a human doctrine.

The redeemed do not get their incorruptible bodies until Jesus comes. Multiple Scripture proves that.

 

[CadyandZoe]

I just read Jeff's post and noticed you didn't even address any of his arguments or Scripture. This does not advance your argument or represent fair debate. There is so much avoided evidence above that forbids your position.

What the first resurrection (of Christ) secured was a tremendous victory for the dead in Christ and also for the living in Christ. Your first resurrection does not do that. It excludes the living in Christ. The Amil first resurrection that occurred 2000 years ago embraces all of God's elect and gives them victory over eternal punishment.

John first describes a group of people. Then he gives that group a name. The group comprises judges sitting on thrones, those who were beheaded and those who did not take the mark of the beast. And he names this group, "the first resurrection." He isn't talking about the resurrection of Jesus because that event had already taken place.

 

[David in NJ]

The first resurrection through Christ, according to Scripture comes the moment we believe! That is when our spirit that was "dead in trespass and sins" is made alive by the resurrection life of Christ. When we receive His Spirit through new birth from above the spirit in man returns to God who gave it ALIVE. If this is not truth Christ would not have said, "He who lives and believes in me shall never die." What is not complete until the last trump sounds and time given this age shall be no longer is the resurrection of our physical body from mortal to immortal and corruptible to incorruptible. That's when the living souls returning with Christ from heaven will be reunited with our new bodies of flesh to inherit the new earth eternally. Paul proves this in 1Th 4.

Are you able to understand this?

ALL my Posts reflect this in perfect Scriptural accuracy.

 

[David in NJ]

How can we be part of the first resurrection through Christ physically since our body will not be resurrected immortal and incorruptible until the last day? John sees living souls in heaven as Paul says a spiritual body. Yes, our physical bodies are destined to die, that's why the first resurrection is spiritual and not physical. Because when we have been born from above we possess eternal life, and shall never die. Why are you trying to force the first resurrection, of which Christ is into the bodily resurrection that shall not be until this age of TIME is no more?

You make no distinction between our spiritual re-birth through the first resurrection of Christ for all who have been made spiritually alive, and the bodily resurrection that shall be when the last trump sounds that TIME for this age shall be no longer? You present both the spiritual first resurrection and the physical resurrection when the last trump sounds as two physical resurrections separated by ONE thousand years. You are refusing to accept what the Scripture affirms. The only way to have life everlasting, even after our body succumbs to physical death is to have part in Christ, because He is the "first resurrection" for those made spiritually alive in Him in TIME. And the life we receive through His first resurrection is eternal, and shall not suffer the second death.

You asked = "How can we be part of the first resurrection through Christ physically since our body will not be resurrected immortal and incorruptible until the last day?"

Christ is the FIRST Resurrection = therefore when HE Returns?His Coming/the Second Coming = BOTH the Dead & Living (in Christ) recieve their NEW Immortal Bodies = 1 Thess4:13-18 , 1 COr ch15 , 1 John 3:1-3

 

[David in NJ]

How can we be part of the first resurrection through Christ physically since our body will not be resurrected immortal and incorruptible until the last day? John sees living souls in heaven as Paul says a spiritual body. Yes, our physical bodies are destined to die, that's why the first resurrection is spiritual and not physical. Because when we have been born from above we possess eternal life, and shall never die. Why are you trying to force the first resurrection, of which Christ is into the bodily resurrection that shall not be until this age of TIME is no more?

You make no distinction between our spiritual re-birth through the first resurrection of Christ for all who have been made spiritually alive, and the bodily resurrection that shall be when the last trump sounds that TIME for this age shall be no longer? You present both the spiritual first resurrection and the physical resurrection when the last trump sounds as two physical resurrections separated by ONE thousand years. You are refusing to accept what the Scripture affirms. The only way to have life everlasting, even after our body succumbs to physical death is to have part in Christ, because He is the "first resurrection" for those made spiritually alive in Him in TIME. And the life we receive through His first resurrection is eternal, and shall not suffer the second death.

You asked: "Why are you trying to force the first resurrection, of which Christ is into the bodily resurrection that shall not be until this age of TIME is no more?"

Why do you not believe the words of Christ = Rev 2:10-11 , Rev ch20 , 1 Cor ch15 , 1 Thess 4:13-18

JESUS specifically said that His Coming(Second) is the FIRST Resurrection - Why would you call Jesus a liar?

amillennialism & pre-trib rapture BOTH force itself upon Scripture

 

[WPM]

You asked = "How can we be part of the first resurrection through Christ physically since our body will not be resurrected immortal and incorruptible until the last day?"

Christ is the FIRST Resurrection = therefore when HE Returns?His Coming/the Second Coming = BOTH the Dead & Living (in Christ) recieve their NEW Immortal Bodies = 1 Thess4:13-18 , 1 COr ch15 , 1 John 3:1-3

We all agree: "BOTH the Dead & Living (in Christ) recieve their NEW Immortal Bodies = 1 Thess4:13-18 , 1 COr ch15 , 1 John 3:1-3."

Where we disagree is: the catching away is different from the resurrection. One needs to be physically dead to be physically resurrected. The living in Christ are "changed" and "caught up" when He comes - which is altogether different. He does not kill the living in Christ when He comes. You are making the catching away the physical resurrection from the dead, which it is not.

 

[David in NJ]

How can we be part of the first resurrection through Christ physically since our body will not be resurrected immortal and incorruptible until the last day? John sees living souls in heaven as Paul says a spiritual body. Yes, our physical bodies are destined to die, that's why the first resurrection is spiritual and not physical. Because when we have been born from above we possess eternal life, and shall never die. Why are you trying to force the first resurrection, of which Christ is into the bodily resurrection that shall not be until this age of TIME is no more?

You make no distinction between our spiritual re-birth through the first resurrection of Christ for all who have been made spiritually alive, and the bodily resurrection that shall be when the last trump sounds that TIME for this age shall be no longer? You present both the spiritual first resurrection and the physical resurrection when the last trump sounds as two physical resurrections separated by ONE thousand years. You are refusing to accept what the Scripture affirms. The only way to have life everlasting, even after our body succumbs to physical death is to have part in Christ, because He is the "first resurrection" for those made spiritually alive in Him in TIME. And the life we receive through His first resurrection is eternal, and shall not suffer the second death.

You said: "The only way to have life everlasting, even after our body succumbs to physical death is to have part in Christ, because He is the "first resurrection" for those made spiritually alive in Him ."

i have always believed this and have always confirmed this to be TRUTH.

 

[David in NJ]

We all agree: "BOTH the Dead & Living (in Christ) recieve their NEW Immortal Bodies = 1 Thess4:13-18 , 1 COr ch15 , 1 John 3:1-3."

Where we disagree is: the catching away is different from the resurrection. One needs to be physically dead to be physically resurrected. The living in Christ are "changed" and "caught up" when He comes - which is altogether different. He does not kill the living in Christ when He comes. You are making the catching away the physical resurrection from the dead, which it is not.

LOOK n SEE = 1 Thess 4:13-18

Brothers, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death,c so that you will not grieve like the rest, who are without hope. For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, we also believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in Him.
By the word of the Lord, we declare to you that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who have fallen asleep.
A.) For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will be the first to rise.

B.) After that, we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord.

A comes before B

A & B occur at the SAME EVENT = His Second Coming

A & B receive their NEW Glorified Bodies at teh SAME EVENT = His Second Coming = the FIRST Resurrection = Rev 2:10-11 & Rev 20:4-6

Where you and @rwb are confused is that JESUS is the First Resurrection and therefore you believe it already occurred for the Body of Christ.

and in fact, In PART it has, but ONLY the Spiritual PART = Born-Again

the FINAL PART of the FIRST Resurrection is His Second Coming and Resurrection of the Dead(in Him) immediatelly followed by the Rapture of living/remaining Saints.

The LORD Jesus said over and over again that the FIRST Resurrection has 2 PARTS = #1 Born-Again and #2 NEW Glorified Bodies

 

[WPM]

JESUS specifically said that His Coming(Second) is the FIRST Resurrection - Why would you call Jesus a liar?

Stick to the truth and we will agree. This is wrong. You are ducking around multiple posts and Scripture because it exposes your theology. Your position denies that Jesus is "the first resurrection" (Acts 26:23 and Revelation 20:6), "the firstborn from the dead" (Colossians 1:18), "the firstfruits of them that slept" (1 Corinthians 15:20), "first begotten of the dead" (Revelation 1:5). Amils believe in corroboration. Multiple Scripture proves that the first resurrection of Jesus occurred 2000 years ago.

amillennialism & pre-trib rapture BOTH force itself upon Scripture

LOL. Keep this nonsense out of the discussion. The opposite is the truth. The reader can see who is ducking around the biblical evidence. It is you that has nothing to corroborate your position. Your attempt at presenting 1 Thess as support actually exposed your claims by showing "the first" mentioned here only applies to the dead in Christ. It does not cover the living in Christ. What you need to see is: there are two parties here. The "first" are "the dead in Christ" alone! The second are the 'live in Christ' alone! The word "first" is simply to show order at the general resurrection. The dead rise first and the “live” rise second. 1 Thessalonians 4 is simply showing order.

 

[WPM]

LOOK n SEE = 1 Thess 4:13-18

Brothers, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death,c so that you will not grieve like the rest, who are without hope. For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, we also believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in Him.
By the word of the Lord, we declare to you that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who have fallen asleep.
A.) For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will be the first to rise.

B.) After that, we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord.

A comes before B

A & B occur at the SAME EVENT = His Second Coming

A & B receive their NEW Glorified Bodies at teh SAME EVENT = His Second Coming = the FIRST Resurrection = Rev 2:10-11 & Rev 20:4-6

Where you and @rwb are confused is that JESUS is the First Resurrection and therefore you believe it already occurred for the Body of Christ.

and in fact, In PART it has, but ONLY the Spiritual PART = Born-Again

the FINAL PART of the FIRST Resurrection is His Second Coming and Resurrection of the Dead(in Him) immediatelly followed by the Rapture of living/remaining Saints.

The LORD Jesus said over and over again that the FIRST Resurrection has 2 PARTS = #1 Born-Again and #2 NEW Glorified Bodies

Let's cut to the chase: in your opinion: are the living in Christ physically resurrected from the dead when Jesus comes - yes or no?

 

[David in NJ]

Stick to the truth and we will agree. This is wrong. You are ducking around multiple posts and Scripture because it exposes your theology. Your position denies that Jesus is "the first resurrection" (Acts 26:23 and Revelation 20:6), "the firstborn from the dead" (Colossians 1:18), "the firstfruits of them that slept" (1 Corinthians 15:20), "first begotten of the dead" (Revelation 1:5). Amils believe in corroboration. Multiple Scripture proves that the first resurrection of Jesus occurred 2000 years ago.



LOL. The opposite is the truth. The reader can see who is ducking around the biblical evidence. It is you that has nothing to corroborate your position. Your attempt at presenting 1 Thess as support actually exposed your claims by showing "the first" mentioned here only applies to the dead in Christ. It does not cover the living in Christ. What you need to see is: there are two parties here. The "first" are "the dead in Christ" alone! The second are the 'live in Christ' alone! The word "first" is simply to show order at the general resurrection. The dead rise first and the “live” rise second. 1 Thessalonians 4 is simply showing order.

Now you are calling the LORD Jesus Christ & myself liars - this is a grievous sin on your part.

Prove anywhere where i denied that the Lord Jesus Christ is the First Resurrection

 

[David in NJ]

Let's cut to the chase: in your opinion: are the living in Christ physically resurrected from the dead when Jesus comes - yes or no?

Did i not post1 Thess 4:13-18 over and over again to you along with 1 Cor ch15