Another Premillennial absurdity

[Timtofly]

Martyrdom has been happening throughout this current period since the first resurrection. The saints are reigning with Christ since He defeated the grave 2000 years ago.

This is not proof of denying Revelation 20 is a future 1,000 year day of the Lord. I accept all the redeemed have been physically enjoying Paradise since the Cross. They have physically been seated with Christ. They have been serving day and night in the heavenly temple. Paradise is a physical place in the firmament.

They all have permanent incorruptible physical bodies. They have entered that eternal state. There are not any souls laying around waiting for the Second Coming.

You are the one denying and limiting your perspective to the extent of what you claim. The last 1992 years have been great tribulation. They have been the tribulation of those days. What the last 1992 years have not been is Jacob's trouble the GT that only happens after the Second Coming.

The sheep in Matthew 25 are those living on earth after the Second Coming. They are made righteous the same way all the redeemed have been restored. They just don't go to Paradise. They reign on earth for 1,000 years, and then the New Jerusalem comes down to where they are on the new earth.

When the New Jerusalem comes down to the new earth there will already be established nations from the previous 1,000 years. Those nations don't just pop into existence magically.

At the Second Coming all nations and Adam's offspring have been wiped clean. The sheep and wheat represents the remnant. It will take 1,000 years to establish these nations, because John gave us a literal length of 1,000 years.

They don't magically pop up after your claimed climatic and destructive end to the earth as we know it. They all don't march out of the New Jerusalem like Noah did and repopulate the earth. Those living in Paradise for 1992 years will continue to do so for as long as God has determined the length of the next creation to be. The established nations will continue to cover the earth as always.

And the reason that you can't change Revelation 20 to suit your needs, is because there will be some physically beheaded after the Second Coming, who live for 1,000 years. You can't just keep avoiding the fact those beheaded are alive on earth today, and have yet to be presented with the choice to take the mark or chop off their head. That is not the alter call today. The alter call today is accepting Christ by faith and repentance of sin. No one has been beheaded for not taking the mark of the beast.

 

[Timtofly]

Again, you build your whole thesis on your faulty opinion of Revelation 20. That is it! You have nothing more.

Where in Matthew 25 does it say the judgment is in Jerusalem?

Do you think it will be New York City?

Do you have to have the place where Jesus' throne will be set up, named in every prophetic chapter? The one Satan sits on for 42 months?

Is Jesus going to set up a throne after Satan already sits on it? Do you accept time travel, or the correct chronological order of Revelation?

Do you not accept that in Matthew 13, after the Second Coming, Jesus is on earth with His angels sowing the seed Himself?

"He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;"

Do you deny Jesus is the Son of man? Do you deny Jesus sets up a throne in Jerusalem? Do you deny Jesus is on the earth with His angels? You certainly claim all is totally burned to a crisp and leave no room for Jesus on earth with His angels converting humans on the spot. Certainly the wheat and tares are literal humans, and not just Jesus and the angels on a farm in the Midwest, or Mideast?

 

[Timtofly]

Yes it was, along with the rest of the trees.... see bolded and underlined text below...,


Gen 2
4 This is the history of [the origin of] the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day [that is, days of creation] that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens— 5 no shrub or plant of the field was yet in the earth, and no herb of the field had yet sprouted, for the Lord God had not caused it to rain on the earth, and there was no man to cultivate the ground,

6 but a mist (fog, dew, vapor) used to rise from the land and water the entire surface of the ground— 7 then the Lord God formed [that is, created the body of] man from the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and the man became a living being [an individual complete in body and spirit]. 8 And the Lord God planted a garden (oasis) in the east, in Eden (delight, land of happiness); and He put the man whom He had formed (created) there.

9 And [in that garden] the Lord God caused to grow from the ground every tree that is desirable and pleasing to the sight and good (suitable, pleasant) for food; the tree of life was also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of the [experiential] knowledge (recognition) of [the difference between] good and evil.

You skipped the part that God rested on the Day of the Lord (a 1,000 year period).

Then planted the Garden after the Sabbath Day.

Verses 4-6 describe this Sabbeth rest of 1,000 years. Notice the diet in Genesis 1:29-31.

"And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat. And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so. And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day."

There was literally no new tree, bush, nor plant for 1,000 years. Nothing died period. Nothing wild ever sprang up. Nothing was ever planted by any human for 1,000 years. All life ate all the seeds, and fruit, and nothing was buried and died in the ground to spring up wild or domestic.

That is what Genesis 2 states about the Sabbath Day of the Lord.

After the Sabbath, God planted the Garden, not before.

If the Garden was planted prior to the Sabbath, it would have been mentioned in Genesis 1. No mention of God taking a break at any point in the narrative after the first verses of Genesis 2 describe what happened during that break.

During that Day singular there were many generations plural. Not of plants and trees. Only of all living things on the earth were there generations. Adam was not placed in a Garden until after the Sabbath. Adam did not even have Eve perhaps months or years after being placed in the Garden.

There was literally no death and no decay for that first 1,000 years. But you all will deny the Sabbath then, just like you deny the Sabbath soon to happen. No one remembers the Sabbath Day even though that is a commandment in Exodus 20. No one is even properly taught Genesis 2 to understand the Sabbath that is to be Remembered.

 

[Timtofly]

All who are not in the book of life are thrown into the eternal fire.


Rev 20
This is the second death, the lake of fire [the eternal separation from God]. 15 And if anyone’s name was not found written in the Book of Life, he was hurled into the lake of fire.

Matt 25
41 “Then He will also say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels;

2Thess 1
9 These people will pay the penalty and endure the punishment of everlasting destruction, banished from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power,

All who have ever been conceived are written in the Lamb's book of life. The Atonement was not limited. The Atonement covered all of Adam's offspring. The Lamb's book of life will only be opened after the 7th Seal is removed. The goats will be the first humans ever to be removed from the Lamb's book of life and cast directly into the LOF. They will be cast alive without physically even dying. Names can only be removed. No names will be added after the 7th Seal is opened. The time of acceptance by faith passed at the 5th and 6th Seal when the church was glorified at the Second Coming. The sheep were already there. They just need to be removed from Adam's dead corruptible flesh and given new permanent incorruptible physical bodies. Then they are declared righteous. They live on the earth with Christ for 1,000 years. The earth and kingdom prepared by Christ as the Word has been here since the very foundation. Adam just messed everything up, when he disobeyed God.

 

[Timtofly]

Believers reign with Christ now. They are kings and priests now.

Not in Adam's dead corruptible flesh. Only those in Paradise in God's permanent incorruptible physical bodies. We are ambassadors on earth.

Certainly we are priest for personal reasons. We do not have more authority than each other, nor over each other. We are not kings over Adam's dead corruptible flesh. Through the Holy Spirit we can bind and loose. But after 5992 years the majority of the church is already in Paradise, not here on earth.

Do you stop being a king and priest when you leave this earth? Do you stop being an ambassador when you leave this earth?

 

[WPM]

This is not proof of denying Revelation 20 is a future 1,000 year day of the Lord. I accept all the redeemed have been physically enjoying Paradise since the Cross. They have physically been seated with Christ. They have been serving day and night in the heavenly temple. Paradise is a physical place in the firmament.

They all have permanent incorruptible physical bodies. They have entered that eternal state. There are not any souls laying around waiting for the Second Coming.

You are the one denying and limiting your perspective to the extent of what you claim. The last 1992 years have been great tribulation. They have been the tribulation of those days. What the last 1992 years have not been is Jacob's trouble the GT that only happens after the Second Coming.

The sheep in Matthew 25 are those living on earth after the Second Coming. They are made righteous the same way all the redeemed have been restored. They just don't go to Paradise. They reign on earth for 1,000 years, and then the New Jerusalem comes down to where they are on the new earth.

When the New Jerusalem comes down to the new earth there will already be established nations from the previous 1,000 years. Those nations don't just pop into existence magically.

At the Second Coming all nations and Adam's offspring have been wiped clean. The sheep and wheat represents the remnant. It will take 1,000 years to establish these nations, because John gave us a literal length of 1,000 years.

They don't magically pop up after your claimed climatic and destructive end to the earth as we know it. They all don't march out of the New Jerusalem like Noah did and repopulate the earth. Those living in Paradise for 1992 years will continue to do so for as long as God has determined the length of the next creation to be. The established nations will continue to cover the earth as always.

And the reason that you can't change Revelation 20 to suit your needs, is because there will be some physically beheaded after the Second Coming, who live for 1,000 years. You can't just keep avoiding the fact those beheaded are alive on earth today, and have yet to be presented with the choice to take the mark or chop off their head. That is not the alter call today. The alter call today is accepting Christ by faith and repentance of sin. No one has been beheaded for not taking the mark of the beast.

Revelation reinforces the Amil position. It has been ongoing since the first resurrection.

 

[WPM]

Not in Adam's dead corruptible flesh. Only those in Paradise in God's permanent incorruptible physical bodies. We are ambassadors on earth.

Certainly we are priest for personal reasons. We do not have more authority than each other, nor over each other. We are not kings over Adam's dead corruptible flesh. Through the Holy Spirit we can bind and loose. But after 5992 years the majority of the church is already in Paradise, not here on earth.

Do you stop being a king and priest when you leave this earth? Do you stop being an ambassador when you leave this earth?

The dead in Christ are in heaven now reigning with Christ. This is the fulfillment of Revelation 20.

 

[Keturah]

Why would any here give the scriptures?
All have their own interpretation of what it means as opposed to what it says.

Folks believe what they want anyway; it does not matter what the bible nor the Spirit says!

I just came here to meet HIS believers and share our faith in the supreme God. Those that believe walking according to the truth is his way and his will.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

All who are not in the book of life are thrown into the eternal fire.


Rev 20
This is the second death, the lake of fire [the eternal separation from God]. 15 And if anyone’s name was not found written in the Book of Life, he was hurled into the lake of fire.

Matt 25
41 “Then He will also say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels;

2Thess 1
9 These people will pay the penalty and endure the punishment of everlasting destruction, banished from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power,

Exactly, and the last 2 passages you quoted show that as happening when Christ returns and not 1,000+ years later.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Why would any here give the scriptures?
All have their own interpretation of what it means as opposed to what it says.

You show the scriptures to indicate where you are getting your interpretation from. If you just give opinions without indicating which scriptures they are based on then what good is that? For all anyone knows, you're just making things up in that case.

Folks believe what they want anyway; it does not matter what the bible nor the Spirit says!

Speak for yourself.

I just came here to meet HIS believers and share our faith in the supreme God. Those that believe walking according to the truth is his way and his will.

We can do that, but this is not a forum where everyone just agrees on everything. It's expected that disagreements and debate will happen on forums like this one.

 

[Keturah]

You show the scriptures to indicate where you are getting your interpretation from. If you just give opinions without indicating which scriptures they are based on then what good is that? For all anyone knows, you're just making things up in that case.


Speak for yourself.


We can do that, but this is not a forum where everyone just agrees on everything. It's expected that disagreements and debate will happen on forums like this one.

Lol, you disagree that folks believe what they want to believe anyway, how naive.
Just read the JW's, or Catholics posts which I mostly see in this forum

Believers are supposed to KNOW the word if they are studying to shew themselves approved of God. The word and the Spirit bear witness even w / o verbatim.

Folks struggle and have struggled and fought against God and his word since Enos, Seth's grandson, when man first began to call on the name of the Lord, in Genesis.

 

[jeffweeder]

Why would any here give the scriptures?
All have their own interpretation of what it means as opposed to what it says.

Folks believe what they want anyway; it does not matter what the bible nor the Spirit says!

I just came here to meet HIS believers and share our faith in the supreme God. Those that believe walking according to the truth is his way and his will.

You and I got our idea's from the bible to begin with.
We are encouraged then to rightly divide the word of God by quoting it and then discussing it, so we can stand on a solid foundation.
It is nice to meet you Keturah.

 

[rwb]

You and I got our idea's from the bible to begin with.
We are encouraged then to rightly divide the word of God by quoting it and then discussing it, so we can stand on a solid foundation.
It is nice to meet you Keturah.

Another typical millennial avoidance of Scripture. At least most millennialists know enough to realize posting Scripture would prove they don't argue against Amil, but against the Word of God.

 

[Keturah]

You and I got our idea's from the bible to begin with.
We are encouraged then to rightly divide the word of God by quoting it and then discussing it, so we can stand on a solid foundation.
It is nice to meet you Keturah.

Thank you for the greeting and hello to you also.

I agree we are encouraged to rightly divide the word of God, a workman that NEEDETH NOT BE ASHAMED, not quote it. There are folks that can " QUOTE" the bible from G to R and back again but don't KNOW God.
I have seen we are given the commission to spread the gospel of Jesus Christ to win souls for God, I do not think we are just to quote scriptures.

 

[Keturah]

Another typical millennial avoidance of Scripture. At least most millennialists know enough to realize posting Scripture would prove they don't argue against Amil, but against the Word of God.

God's word is proof yet folks want to rebut and do renounce it's truth all the time.

I believe what the word and God's Spirit show me. I've never seen an angel but they are in the word as most holy messengers of God, so I believe.

You ever see a donkey talk?

Also there is no convincing old staid folks set in their or another's doctrine so why argue.

 

[rwb]

God's word is proof yet folks want to rebut and do renounce it's truth all the time.

I believe what the word and God's Spirit show me. I've never seen an angel but they are in the word as most holy messengers of God, so I believe.

You ever see a donkey talk?

Also there is no convincing old staid folks set in their or another's doctrine so why argue.

Without presenting the verses from which you base your doctrine, there is no convincing or arguing. This is a forum for expounding upon and discussing the Word of God, make the case for your doctrine, proving what you allege from Scripture, or you may as well sit down and be silent.

 

[Keturah]

Without presenting the verses from which you base your doctrine, there is no convincing or arguing. This is a forum for expounding upon and discussing the Word of God, make the case for your doctrine, proving what you allege from Scripture, or you may as well sit down and be silent.

Lol lol lol lol.

Without ANY direct scripture, fire is launched in argument and against another's words or beliefs.

I'm not trying to CONVINCE any of the things of God.

It is all before anyone's eyes to see or NOT see as they choose. I am FREE I believe by the rules here to post anywhere I CHOOSE, CORRECT? NEVER AGAIN TELL ME TO BE SILENT OR TO SIT DOWN. You are not my mas'sah ,my father, nor my boss. You certainly will NEVER be my teacher.

 

[rwb]

Lol lol lol lol.

Without ANY direct scripture, fire is launched in argument and against another's words or beliefs.

I'm not trying to CONVINCE any of the things of God.

It is all before anyone's eyes to see or NOT see as they choose. I am FREE I believe by the rules here to post anywhere I CHOOSE, CORRECT? NEVER AGAIN TELL ME TO BE SILENT OR TO SIT DOWN. You are not my mas'sah ,my father, nor my boss. You certainly will NEVER be my teacher.

The point is that none here will be convinced by your unbiblical OPINIONS, we now know that's all you have! Typical millennialist

 

[Keturah]

The point is that none here will be convinced by your unbiblical OPINIONS, we now know that's all you have! Typical millennialist

Thank you but I call myself a follower of Christ, a believer of God's Truth and word revealed by his Spirit.
BTW, I'm not TRYING to convince any of anything.

 

[rwb]

Thank you but I call myself a follower of Christ, a believer of God's Truth and word revealed by his Spirit.
BTW, I'm not TRYING to convince any of anything.

It's a good thing you aren't, because few here will be convinced through unbiblical opinions!