Another Premillennial absurdity
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jeffweeder
Well-Known Member
Everyone will be there. The opening of the book of life reveals the Sons and daughters of God.
11 And I saw a great white throne and Him who was seated upon it, from whose presence earth and heaven fled away, and no place was found for them [for this heaven and earth are passing away]. 12 And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is the Book of Life; and the dead were judged according to what they had done as written in the books [that is, everything done while on earth]. 13 And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, and death and Hades (the realm of the dead) surrendered the dead who were in them; and they were judged and sentenced, every one according to their deeds.
Romans 8:19
For [even the whole] creation [all nature] waits eagerly for the children of God to be revealed.
20 For the creation was subjected to frustration and futility, not willingly [because of some intentional fault on its part], but by the will of Him who subjected it, in hope 21 that the creation itself will also be freed from its bondage to decay [and gain entrance] into the glorious freedom of the children of God. 22 For we know that the whole creation has been moaning together as in the pains of childbirth until now. 23 And not only this, but we too, who have the first fruits of the Spirit [a joyful indication of the blessings to come], even we groan inwardly, as we wait eagerly for [the sign of] our adoption as sons—the redemption and transformation of our body [at the resurrection]. 24 For in this hope we were saved [by faith]. But hope [the object of] which is seen is not hope. For who hopes for what he already sees? 25 But if we hope for what we do not see, we wait eagerly for it with patience and composure.
Maybe I should have also asked, "who is judged at the Judgment seat of Christ? See this gets very tangled up when people don't believe in a literal 1,000-year Milennium. So am I right in presuming you believe the two are the same?
jeffweeder
Well-Known Member
Yes
Rom 14
9 For Christ died and lived again for this reason, that He might be Lord of both the dead and the living.
10 But you, why do you criticize your brother? Or you again, why do you look down on your [believing] brother or regard him with contempt? For we will all stand before the judgment seat of God [who alone is judge]. 11 For it is written [in Scripture],
“As I live, says the Lord, every knee shall bow to Me,
And every tongue shall give praise to God.”
12 So then, each of us will give an account of himself to God.
2Cor 5
10 For we [believers will be called to account and] must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may be repaid for what has been done in the body, whether good or bad [that is, each will be held responsible for his actions, purposes, goals, motives—the use or misuse of his time, opportunities and abilities].
11 Therefore, since we know the fear of the Lord [and understand the importance of obedience and worship], we persuade people [to be reconciled to Him].
Matt 16
27 For the Son of Man is going to come in the glory and majesty of His Father with His angels, and then He will repay each one in accordance with what he has done.
Matt 24
35 Heaven and earth [as now known] will pass away, but My words will not pass away.
36 “But of that [exact] day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son [in His humanity], but the Father alone. 37 For the coming of the Son of Man (the Messiah) will be just like the days of Noah.
So, see this all revolves around the thinking that the thousand years is not 1,000 years!
The argument is done. Take no offense. The definite article PROVES this to be a literal 1,000 years.
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We shall all stand before the judgment throne of Christ.
Romans 14:10-12 (KJV) But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God. So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.
But only the DEAD, resurrected to damnation are judged according to what is written in the books and the book of life. Those who have done good in life will be resurrected to life.
John 5:28-29 (KJV) Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
Those who have done good are resurrected to life and will have immortal and incorruptible bodies when the last trumpet sounds. (see 1Cor 15:51-54) So when believers stand before God at the GWTJ we will be witnesses of the judgment of the dead but will not be judged by what is written in the books or to see if our names are recorded in the book of life. It will be only "the dead" who will not be found there. The dead whose names are not found written the book of life will be cast into the lake of fire.
Revelation 20:11-13 (KJV) And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Revelation 20:15 (KJV) And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
A thousand years, not 1,000 years, equates to TIME. Time that began with the first advent of Christ, and time that shall be no more when the seventh angel begins to sound. It is foolish to believe there will be another 1,000 years of time after knowing that TIME which a thousand years is, shall be TIME NO LONGER. You might want to search the Scriptures to find what else happens when the seventh/last angel begins to sound.
Revelation 10:5-7 (KJV) And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven, And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer: But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.
A, An - the indefinite article. "A" and "an" are called the indefinite articles. They define their noun as something unspecific (e.g., something generic, something mentioned for the first time).
The - would be the definite article. "The" is called the definite article. It defines its noun as something specific (e.g., something previously mentioned or known, something unique, something being identified by the speaker).
John writes Satan is bound for A thousand years. Something unspecific, mentioned for the first time. Then John writes after THE thousand years Satan shall be loosed. THE indicating something previously mentioned or known, something unique being identified. It is both A thousand years and THE thousand years determined by when it began and when it shall end.
Like I've already said, THE thousand years is always in response, and reconciled with A thousand years John had already mentioned.
jeffweeder
Well-Known Member
I think it's a long period of time.
Its a question of when it begins and ends, and it ends with this present heaven and earth passing away.
According to Jesus they pass away at his second coming which then places the millennium as being the gospel age when people are saved and participate in through Jesus's resurrection.
Matt 24 and 25
35 Heaven and earth [as now known] will pass away, but My words will not pass away.
36 “But of that [exact] day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son [in His humanity], but the Father alone. 37 For the coming of the Son of Man (the Messiah) will be just like the days of Noah. 38 For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the [very] day when Noah entered the ark, 39 and they did not know or understand until the flood came and swept them all away; so will the coming of the Son of Man be [unexpected judgment].
The Judgment
31 “But when the Son of Man comes in His glory and majesty and all the angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before Him [for judgment]; and He will separate them from one another, as a shepherd separates his sheep from the goats; 33 and He will put the sheep on His right [the place of honor], and the goats on His left [the place of rejection].34 “Then the King will say to those on His right, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father [you favored of God, appointed to eternal salvation], inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.
....
41 “Then He will say to those on His left, ‘Leave Me, you cursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels
46 Then these [unbelieving people] will go away into eternal (unending) punishment, but those who are righteous and in right standing with God [will go, by His remarkable grace] into eternal (unending) life.”
Rev 20 and 21
The Final Judgment
11 And I saw a great white throne and Him who was seated upon it, from whose presence earth and heaven fled away, and no place was found for them [for this heaven and earth are passing away].The New Heaven and Earth
21 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away (vanished), and there is no longer any sea. 2 And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, arrayed like a bride adorned for her husband; 3 and then I heard a loud voice from the throne, saying, “See! The tabernacle of God is among men, and He will live among them, and they will be His people, and God Himself will be with them [as their God,] 4 and He will wipe away every tear from their eyes; and there will no longer be death; there will no longer be sorrow and anguish, or crying, or pain; for the former order of things has passed away.”5 And He who sits on the throne said, “Behold, I am making all things new.” Also He said, “Write, for these words are faithful and true [they are accurate, incorruptible, and trustworthy].” 6 And He said to me, “It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To the one who thirsts I will give [water] from the fountain of the water of life without cost. 7 He who overcomes [the world by adhering faithfully to Christ Jesus as Lord and Savior] will inherit these things, and I will be his God and he will be My son.
God bless
I apologize if I offended you. I reworded my post and removed the phase containing the word "invent."
Who is exempt from this description of people that will be judged when Jesus comes - the living and the dead? No one!
jeffweeder
Well-Known Member
Taken
Well-Known Member
You and God are now the heart-readers and mind-readers on this earth. Yea right! You are full of nonsense. Why would anyone take your posts serious?
Taken
Well-Known Member
Nothing new, you still think you have authority to speak for others...pfff
Nothing new;
Jer 17:
[10] I the LORD search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings.
Wrong again. I am full of the Holy Spirit.
Because they are Scripturally verifiable...
Op Note
It is noticeable once again that there is no Scripture coming forth from the Premil camp to support another Premil tenet. That is because it is a figment of their imagination. There is nowhere in the sacred text that predicts mortal sinners interacting with glorified saints. This is another Premil invention.
It is noticeable once again that there is no Scripture coming forth from the Premil camp to support another Premil tenet. That is because it is a figment of their imagination. There is nowhere in the sacred text that predicts mortal sinners interacting with glorified saints. This is another Premil invention.
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
In Matthew 25:31-46, it indicates that "the sheep", which represent "the righteous" (verse 46), inherit eternal life in the kingdom prepared for them from the foundation of the world. So, they inherit the kingdom of God. Your doctrine says that these will be people with mortal flesh and blood who inherit the kingdom of God. But, what does this say:
1 Corinthians 15:50 I declare to you, brothers and sisters, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.
Paul made it clear that people with mortal "flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God". Only those who are changed to have immortal bodies will inherit the kingdom of God. So, your intepretation of the sheep and goats judgment contradicts that.
Also, do you believe the following two verses are speaking of entirely different events?
Matthew 25:41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
Revelation 20:15 Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.
Isn't the "eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels" the same as the lake of fire? I would certainly think so. So, I don't see any basis for thinking these are speaking of different events. Yet, Matthew 25:31-46 indicates that this will happen when Jesus comes with His angels. How do you reconcile this with your doctrine?
It is not just believers who will stand before the judgment seat of Christ. That is obvious in Matthew 25:31-46, but also can be discerned from these passages:
Romans 14:10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. 11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God. 12 So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.
Paul indicated that every person will stand before the judgment seat of Christ. In verse 11 he references this passage:
Isaiah 45:22 Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else. 23 I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear. 24 Surely, shall one say, in the Lord have I righteousness and strength: even to him shall men come; and all that are incensed against him shall be ashamed.
Notice here that not just believers will bow down and confess to God at the judgment seat of Christ, but "all that are incensed against him" will do so as well and they "shall be ashamed".
Scripture repeatedly teaches that all people will be judged at the same time. This can be seen in passages like Matthew 13:40-43, Matthew 13:47-50 and Acts 17:31 as well. And passages like Daniel 12:1-2 and John 5:28-29 have all of the dead being resurrected and judged at the same time, also.
Timtofly
Well-Known Member
Does the length matter even after the Second Coming then? Don't some Amil claim the Second Coming could happen in 10 to 50 thousand years from now?
Does not change the point it is after the Second Coming.
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