Last day prophecies fulfilled

[dad]

Well as you are looking for everything to happen all at once- you will never see it on this planet or in time.

I never said that.

God is gathering Israel back to its land in his anger, to pass them under the rod of His judgment and to purge out the rebel from their midst! Just because it is taking time- you seem to think it can't be God! but it is. There are over 10,000 Messianic congregations in Israel when I went in 2016. All according to prophecy.

He gathers them when they are saved. Imagining that will take great time is not supported. Israel today is not following Him or saved. Period. I showed how the verses you cited were not applicable. Unless you have something else, you have no case.

And to add to the mix, Russia with a series of allies will invade Israel in the not too distant future and fulfill Ez. 38-39

Yes. When God brings them back to the land no one will attack them! They will lick the dust of their feet instead.

 

[Robert Gwin]

Don't you mean the son of man has not yet come the second time? The son of man, called Jesus, the promised Messiah the prophets of old foretell would come has indeed already come. Perhaps that's a problem for many who profess Christ? Still, like Orthodox Jews, awaiting the coming of the promised Messiah, instead of understanding He has already come in His day/age/time. The fact that Christ has come, just as the prophets of old foretell He would is positive, and indisputable proof the prophecies foretold to come in these last days are being fulfilled just as they are written of old.

Yes sir RW, I believe that was understood from the context, but thank you for bringing that out for those who might not understand. Likely rephrasing it to say return might have been a better response on my part.

 

[Robert Gwin]

The issue is who was (what Jesus saying) primarily directed at. The answer is people that would come after, as well as those in the end time.. The folks in the end time.

Mark 13:7

And when ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars, be ye not troubled: for such things must needs be; but the end shall not be yet.

What wars and rumours of wars regarding the end did the apostles see in the few decades they were to live??

Mark 13:8
For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be earthquakes in divers places, and there shall be famines and troubles: these are the beginnings of sorrows.

That did not apply to the apostles He spoke to in that day. Was there a rash of earthquakes that week or in their life times there? Notice it also talked about divers places, and not Israel.

Yes the part (and Jesus even used the word 'yourselves' there, about being delivered to synagogues applied to them. It also applied to other people later of course.

The context for the chapter though is clearly focused on the very end.

Mark 13:10
And the gospel must first be published among all nations.

There is no possibility that you can claim that this happened in the days of those alive then that He was talking to/through. This clearly pins it to the end.

Mark 13:13
And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Again the time is clear in this verse.

Also crystal clear here --
Mark 13:14
But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:

Mark 13:19
For in those days shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be.

That is crystal clear. The final Tribulation. Etc

You may not try to limit what Jesus was talking about to the time and people alive during the prophesy! That is ridiculous and clearly not what the verses say or suggest in any way.

Actually dad, although those passages do affect each and every individual who lives on this earth, Jesus spoke to them privately, and stated they were the ones who would understand it. Most of the world really takes no note of them, nor really understands what is upcoming. Many however do recognize strange things are going on, and do recognize some of those signs are happening. Remember this however it is really those in the covenant that he is giving that understanding to:
(Mark 4:10-12) . . .Now when he was alone, those around him with the Twelve began questioning him about the illustrations. 11 He said to them: “To you the sacred secret of the Kingdom of God has been given, but to those outside all things are in illustrations, 12 so that, though looking, they may look and still not see, and though hearing, they may hear and still not get the sense of it; nor will they ever turn back and receive forgiveness.. . .
While not particularly referring to those passages, it is true nonetheless. How many non-Christians recognize WW#1 as fulfillment of Mat 24:7's nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, thus starting us into the last days of the age.

 

[dad]

Actually dad, although those passages do affect each and every individual who lives on this earth, Jesus spoke to them privately, and stated they were the ones who would understand it.

Actually when talking to them He also was talking to us. When He says you, that means us believers for the most part. In the case of prophesy involving the end time, it especially and specifically is for us.

Most of the world really takes no note of them, nor really understands what is upcoming. Many however do recognize strange things are going on, and do recognize some of those signs are happening. Remember this however it is really those in the covenant that he is giving that understanding to:
(Mark 4:10-12) . . .Now when he was alone, those around him with the Twelve began questioning him about the illustrations. 11 He said to them: “To you the sacred secret of the Kingdom of God has been given, but to those outside all things are in illustrations, 12 so that, though looking, they may look and still not see, and though hearing, they may hear and still not get the sense of it; nor will they ever turn back and receive forgiveness.. . .
While not particularly referring to those passages, it is true nonetheless. How many non-Christians recognize WW#1 as fulfillment of Mat 24:7's nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, thus starting us into the last days of the age.

He was talking to us as well when He spoke of us understanding while the world cannot understand. We are part of the 'ye' and 'you'.

 

[rwb]

Yes sir RW, I believe that was understood from the context, but thank you for bringing that out for those who might not understand. Likely rephrasing it to say return might have been a better response on my part.

I only pointed that out because you said "Of course the son of man has not came yet." Since Christ, The Messiah prophesied of Old has indeed come in TIME, since His advent, we look for Him to return the second time when the seventh angel begins to sound that time shall be no more. Many seem to believe the second coming of Christ will be to usher in ONE thousand more years of TIME. Because the Old Covenant prophets foretell Messiah would come to fulfill all that is written of Him during that time. But the New Testament authors don't indicate Christ will return for ONE thousand years to reign over all the world from Jerusalem of old. In fact when the New Testament writes of the Day of the Lord coming again, it is in fiery wrath and judgment, when all that is of old will be utterly burned up and all will be made new again forever.

 

[RR144]

Most of us believe we are living in the last days, and several prophecies are to be fulfilled during that time period. Have you observed any of the prophecies for the last days being fulfilled? What are you observing that is being fulfilled?

All one has to do is look at Matthew 24, 25 and 2 Timothy 3:1-5 and see prophecy being fulfilled.

 

[Robert Gwin]

Actually when talking to them He also was talking to us. When He says you, that means us believers for the most part. In the case of prophesy involving the end time, it especially and specifically is for us.



He was talking to us as well when He spoke of us understanding while the world cannot understand. We are part of the 'ye' and 'you'.

Actually when talking to them He also was talking to us. When He says you, that means us believers for the most part. In the case of prophesy involving the end time, it especially and specifically is for us.

I do not disagree Dad.

He was talking to us as well when He spoke of us understanding while the world cannot understand. We are part of the 'ye' and 'you'.

Exactly!

 

[Robert Gwin]

I only pointed that out because you said "Of course the son of man has not came yet." Since Christ, The Messiah prophesied of Old has indeed come in TIME, since His advent, we look for Him to return the second time when the seventh angel begins to sound that time shall be no more. Many seem to believe the second coming of Christ will be to usher in ONE thousand more years of TIME. Because the Old Covenant prophets foretell Messiah would come to fulfill all that is written of Him during that time. But the New Testament authors don't indicate Christ will return for ONE thousand years to reign over all the world from Jerusalem of old. In fact when the New Testament writes of the Day of the Lord coming again, it is in fiery wrath and judgment, when all that is of old will be utterly burned up and all will be made new again forever.

We believe when Jesus returns it is to fight the battle of armageddon 2 Thes 1:6-9. Then the Kingdom will come and the millennium will start. It is a bit confusing I admit, some aspects of it I personally do not understand, but most of it is rather clear Rw.

 

[Robert Gwin]

All one has to do is look at Matthew 24, 25 and 2 Timothy 3:1-5 and see prophecy being fulfilled.

I fully agree Be, but think of how many you have talked to that don't. I have heard this stated to me by many over the years that don't even know that it is in the Bible, or that they are fulfilling it:
(2 Peter 3:3, 4) . . .know this, that in the last days ridiculers will come with their ridicule, proceeding according to their own desires 4 and saying: “Where is this promised presence of his? Why, from the day our forefathers fell asleep in death, all things are continuing exactly as they were from creation’s beginning.”
How many times has that been related to you sir?

Believe it or not I was talking to a brother here while back, and he felt this world will continue on at least another hundred years before Jesus' return. For us that is almost like an apostatistic statement.

 

[rwb]

We believe when Jesus returns it is to fight the battle of armageddon 2 Thes 1:6-9. Then the Kingdom will come and the millennium will start. It is a bit confusing I admit, some aspects of it I personally do not understand, but most of it is rather clear Rw.

Paul is speaking to the Church in Thessalonica, saying these faithful saints living in the first century AD they will suffer persecutions and tribulations, they are called to endure. This is not speaking of the return of Christ when the last trumpet begins to sound. Paul is telling us the Church will suffer this righteous judgment of God and endure and through their endurance they are counted worthy of the Kingdom of God for which they suffer in life.

2 Thessalonians 1:1-5 (KJV) Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus, unto the church of the Thessalonians in God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. We are bound to thank God always for you, brethren, as it is meet, because that your faith groweth exceedingly, and the charity of every one of you all toward each other aboundeth; So that we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that ye endure: Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:

When the Lord returns in flaming fire with vengeance on them that do not know God, and do not obey the Gospel. They shall be punished with everlasting destruction when Christ comes to be glorified in His saints.

2 Thessalonians 1:8-12 (KJV) In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day. Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfil all the good pleasure of his goodness, and the work of faith with power: That the name of our Lord Jesus Christ may be glorified in you, and ye in him, according to the grace of our God and the Lord Jesus Christ.

There is nothing found in the words of Paul to indicate there will then be another one thousand years of time when the Lord Jesus Christ comes the second time. John tells us that when the seventh angel begins to sound "time shall be no more". (Rev 10) The return of the Lord the second time is preceded by the sounding of the last trumpet because then the Kingdom will be complete, no more to come into the Kingdom of God, so no purpose for having another one thousand years of time for this earth.

 

[dad]

There is nothing found in the words of Paul to indicate there will then be another one thousand years of time when the Lord Jesus Christ comes the second time.

Even if true, there need not be explicit mention of everything in one epistle. Paul says nothing, of course that opposes the rest of Scripture.

John tells us that when the seventh angel begins to sound "time shall be no more". (Rev 10)

So man runs out of time. Of course that happens one day that the time will come. You seem to take that as meaning time itself in any form will no longer exist. That can't be supported.

The return of the Lord the second time is preceded by the sounding of the last trumpet because then the Kingdom will be complete, no more to come into the Kingdom of God, so no purpose for having another one thousand years of time for this earth.

No. There are saints also in the 1000 years. There are also children born. Did you think they were all damned?!

 

[rwb]

Even if true, there need not be explicit mention of everything in one epistle. Paul says nothing, of course that opposes the rest of Scripture.

Where in Scripture can we find these one thousand years of more time after the Lord returns the second time?

So man runs out of time. Of course that happens one day that the time will come. You seem to take that as meaning time itself in any form will no longer exist. That can't be supported.

According to Scripture time shall be no longer when the seventh angel begins to sound. Why shall time be no longer when the seventh angel begins to sound? According to John its because the mystery of God is finished, the mystery He hath declared to His servants the prophets. What is the mystery that is finished when the seventh angel begins to sound that time shall be no longer? The mystery hidden in the past, but revealed to His prophets is that the Kingdom of God would be complete when the fullness of the Gentiles in the nations of the world shall be saved. What would be the purpose for another one thousand years of more time once the Kingdom is complete and time for proclaiming the Gospel unto the Gentile nations of the world shall be no longer? Why would there be more time since there will be no more to be eternally saved?

Revelation 10:5-7 (KJV) And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven, And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer: But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

Romans 11:25 (KJV) For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

Romans 16:25-26 (KJV) Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began, But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

Ephesians 3:3-7 (KJV) How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ) Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel: Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.

Colossians 1:26-29 (KJV) Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.

The thousand years, that equate to TIME from the first advent of Christ until this time shall be no more is the time that shall be no longer. Satan was bound to this earth in a pit by the birth, life, cross, resurrection, and ascension of Christ for a thousand years, which equates to time. That is the amount of time the Church on earth is given to proclaim the Gospel unto all the nations of the world through the power of the Holy Spirit. Once the Kingdom of God is complete, than this time symbolized a thousand years shall end, and Satan allowed freedom from his pit for a "little season". Satan is given this time to gather together all who remain in unbelief (Gog & Magog) to come against Christ and Christians one last time. When Satan surrounds the saints on earth, the saints are called up to meet the Lord in the air, and the fire of God from heaven comes down to destroy all of the enemies of Christ and Christians.

Then believers will not live in time, but through eternity with the Lord on the new earth.

 

[dad]

Where in Scripture can we find these one thousand years of more time after the Lord returns the second time?

If you don't know, it is no use getting off topic on some pet theory of yours.

According to Scripture time shall be no longer when the seventh angel begins to sound.

"That there should be time no longer — That the great counsels relative to the events already predicted should be immediately fulfilled, and that there should be no longer delay"

Revelation 10 - Clarke's Commentary - Bible Commentaries - StudyLight.org

Revelation 10, Clarke's Commentary, Clarke's Commentary offers Christians deep insights into the Scriptures through thorough examination of original texts and historical context.

www.studylight.org

Why shall time be no longer when the seventh angel begins to sound? According to John its because the mystery of God is finished, the mystery He hath declared to His servants the prophets. What is the mystery that is finished when the seventh angel begins to sound that time shall be no longer? The mystery hidden in the past, but revealed to His prophets is that the Kingdom of God would be complete when the fullness of the Gentiles in the nations of the world shall be saved.

Well, what the angel said was not known. You can guess all you like, John was told to not write it.

What would be the purpose for another one thousand years of more time once the Kingdom is complete and time for proclaiming the Gospel unto the Gentile nations of the world shall be no longer? Why would there be more time since there will be no more to be eternally saved?

NOYB. If God says there is a thousand year reign, just deal with it.

Romans 16:25-26 (KJV) Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began, But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

Ephesians 3:3-7 (KJV) How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ) Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel: Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.

Colossians 1:26-29 (KJV) Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.

That is a fun game. Grab all the times a word is used and pretend it supports your pet theory.

 

[rwb]

If you don't know, it is no use getting off topic on some pet theory of yours.

Not only do I not find one thousand more years of time after Christ returns, apparently you cannot find proof from Scripture for this unbiblical doctrine either.

"That there should be time no longer — That the great counsels relative to the events already predicted should be immediately fulfilled, and that there should be no longer delay"

Revelation 10 - Clarke's Commentary - Bible Commentaries - StudyLight.org

Revelation 10, Clarke's Commentary, Clarke's Commentary offers Christians deep insights into the Scriptures through thorough examination of original texts and historical context.

www.studylight.org

You rely on the commentary by Clarke, but he shows he has no understanding of the mystery of God that shall be finished when the seventh angel begins to sound. Without knowing what the mystery finished is, how can he possibly know what time shall be no more? I've already shown you how the time that shall be no longer is connected to the mystery that had been hidden in times past. You can cling to a commentary that appears to have no certainty, and in fact says, "What this mystery refers to who knows?"

Adam Clarke's Commentary on the Bible
Revelation 10:7
"The mystery of God should be finished - What this mystery refers to who knows? Nor have we more knowledge concerning the sounding of the seventh angel. On these points there is little agreement among learned men. Whether it mean the destruction of Jerusalem, or the destruction of the papal power, or something else, we know not. And yet with what confidence do men speak of the meaning of these hidden things!

Declared to his servants the prophets - It is most likely, therefore, that this trumpet belongs to the Jewish state."

I've presented a strong biblical case for what time shall be no longer and why. You can search the Scripture for yourself, or cling to guess work.

Well, what the angel said was not known. You can guess all you like, John was told to not write it.

There is no ambiguity in what John was told regarding the sounding of the seventh angel when time shall be no longer, or the fact that the mystery of God is finished then. John was told not to write that which the seven thunders had uttered, and to seal up those things and write them not. Whatever they uttered it apparently was not concerning the sounding of the seventh angel that time shall be no longer when the mystery of God should be fulfilled. John would not have written that which he was told not to write.

Revelation 10:1-3 (KJV) And I saw another mighty angel come down from heaven, clothed with a cloud: and a rainbow was upon his head, and his face was as it were the sun, and his feet as pillars of fire: And he had in his hand a little book open: and he set his right foot upon the sea, and his left foot on the earth, And cried with a loud voice, as when a lion roareth: and when he had cried, seven thunders uttered their voices.
Revelation 10:4 (KJV) And when the seven thunders had uttered their voices, I was about to write: and I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Seal up those things which the seven thunders uttered, and write them not.

NOYB. If God says there is a thousand year reign, just deal with it.

That would not be a problem for me if God has said that Christ will reign for one thousand years on this earth after He comes again. Problem for you is that nowhere in Scripture do we find that Christ will reign on this earth!

That is a fun game. Grab all the times a word is used and pretend it supports your pet theory.

The only verses presented not only speak of the mystery of God, but also clearly prove the mystery is that Gentiles will complete the Kingdom of God as the Gospel goes into all the nations of the world in the power of the Spirit. Trying to help you I even took the time to highlight and underline the pertinent parts of each verse. I did this not to play a game with you, but because you appear to lack understanding of these things.

 

[dad]

Not only do I not find one thousand more years of time after Christ returns, apparently you cannot find proof from Scripture for this unbiblical doctrine either.

Not interested in that sort of ignorance about basic bible teachings.

You rely on the commentary by Clarke, but he shows he has no understanding of the mystery of God that shall be finished when the seventh angel begins to sound. Without knowing what the mystery finished is, how can he possibly know what time shall be no more? I've already shown you how the time that shall be no longer is connected to the mystery that had been hidden in times past. You can cling to a commentary that appears to have no certainty, and in fact says, "What this mystery refers to who knows?"

No. I used the first commentary I saw. There will be time after Jesus returns. Seasons, children being a certain age, festivals, etc. That is not anything worth arguing about.

There is no ambiguity in what John was told regarding the sounding of the seventh angel when time shall be no longer, or the fact that the mystery of God is finished then.

Right, so then you can talk. John was told not to write what the angel said. Take a hint.

That would not be a problem for me if God has said that Christ will reign for one thousand years on this earth after He comes again. Problem for you is that nowhere in Scripture do we find that Christ will reign on this earth!

Yes, from Jerusalem. People will come there as well. God restores people to Israel from all over as well. Right here. Not Mars.

The only verses presented not only speak of the mystery of God, but also clearly prove the mystery is that Gentiles will complete the Kingdom of God as the Gospel goes into all the nations of the world in the power of the Spirit.

Whatever. So? What about the mystery?

 

[RR144]

Why, from the day our forefathers fell asleep in death, all things are continuing exactly as they were from creation’s beginning.”
How many times has that been related to you sir?

I've been told by many, even among xjws who have thrown the baby out with the bathwater that it's just a cycle.

Believe it or not I was talking to a brother here while back, and he felt this world will continue on at least another hundred years before Jesus' return. For us that is almost like an apostatistic statement.

Did you remind him that Jesus has already returned?

 

[rwb]

Not interested in that sort of ignorance about basic bible teachings.



No. I used the first commentary I saw. There will be time after Jesus returns. Seasons, children being a certain age, festivals, etc. That is not anything worth arguing about.



Right, so then you can talk. John was told not to write what the angel said. Take a hint.




Yes, from Jerusalem. People will come there as well. God restores people to Israel from all over as well. Right here. Not Mars.




Whatever. So? What about the mystery?

Typical! Unbiblical opinion without a single verse of support from Scripture!

 

[Ezra]

try being pastor of a church ask what do we see . main thing is see is people not having a want to or desire .

Church attendance down. Church with out a pastor over 5 years . every thing we see is something connected to the last days. i remind that the the things we see hear on the news/bad news Russia bombing Ukraine torture's.. its sad two things i am reminded of Jesus said yet these are just the beginning of sorrows.. the end is not yet yes i see Luke warmness i see spiritual death i see lose of the first Love.
perilous times were in the 11 th hour and its 11: 59 know the time now is high time we wake up . !!!!!

 

[dad]

Typical! Unbiblical opinion without a single verse of support from Scripture!

OK so what would you like support for? Pick something. Hopefully quasi topical.

 

[dad]

I've been told by many, even among xjws who have thrown the baby out with the bathwater that it's just a cycle.

Did you remind him that Jesus has already returned?

? Where have you been hiding Him?