Another Premillennial absurdity

[robert derrick]

When in Revelation does the NHNE arrive - at or after the millennium?

After the final judgment after Christ's earthly reign.

 

[robert derrick]

Then believers will be physically fit to be with Christ on the new earth forever.

On this earth first during His earthly reign, and then also on the new earth, when God and the Lamb dwell with men.

Abraham gets the land he walked on this earth, and Job see Him on this earth doing so.

On the new earth all the land is the nations' with God dwelling among them in New Jerusalem.

Because on the new earth there will be no mortal beings, no sin, no corruption, and no more death. Nothing impure will be found upon the new earth.

Except spiritual sickness of soul, since the nations will come to the New Jerusalem for healing from the fruits of the tree of life.

The natural nations can live forever, so long as they come to the city of God for healing from sinning.

Those who repent not, will die, because they will not be allowed through the gates of the city:

And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there. And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it.

And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.

Even as today, those sinning against God are not written in the Lamb's book of Life while sinning, except they repent, and come to the Lamb for forgiveness and healing of their souls.

When Jesus heard it, he saith unto them, They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

Man's vision of 'utopia' never exists in Scripture of God. Once you begin to account for all Scripture, and to take all the words seriously enough, then you will have a more accurate vision of revelation of Scripture.

God and the Lamb, as now, will forever be accounting for natural men that do well, and them that sin.

That is the cost God counted before ever creating heaven and earth, and men in His own image.

For which of you, intending to build a tower, sitteth not down first, and counteth the cost, whether he have sufficient to finish it?

It started good with one or two, was fully bad before the flood, got better for many more after Abraham, went fully bad and worst at the cross, is much much better with the gospel today, and will be really greatly better during His earthly reign, and will be best there can ever be in the new heaven and earth.

But there will always be imperfect natural men and women, along with the perfect God and Lamb, obedient angels, and perfected resurrected saints.

John writes at the GWTJ the heavens and earth that are now, shall pass away after judgment of the lake of fire.

Flees before the judgement, and passed away before the creation of the new heaven and earth.

It is on the new heaven and earth that the holy city, new Jerusalem shall be. The city coming down from God is prepared as a bride. No fearful, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, whoremongers, sorcerers, idolaters, liars will be there because they will have already been cast into the lake of fire, which is the second death.

No more new evil doers will be allowed to enter the gates of the city, and so will die off.

I just don't find any place where John writes of mortals living for one thousand years after this first heaven and earth have passed away, and the new heaven and earth ushered in???

Because you still don't take every word of Scripture seriously enough to account for them.

And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

The word them means them, which mean them ruled after smiting them of the nations gathered at Armageddon.

Your Symbol Man's reading of Scripture, also does away with taking every word as literally necessary in the Scripture, nor as meaning exactly what the word is.

You dismiss them ruled over after smiting of nations, because you don't want them there.

Just because you want to act like them isn't written there, them is still written there.

God doesn't need a multitude of Scripture to convince them that don't believe every word of Scripture as written.

That's why we don't need to endlessly debate with christ-creators, because of the one Scripture that says the Word was God.

Simple.

 

[WPM]

I believe Job, like Abraham knew of Christ who would come (Gospel). And even though Christ would die, Job understood death could not hold Him. Yes, Job knew he would not be resurrected to physical life again until this first heavens and earth be no more. Because the grave could not hold Job's Redeemer, neither would it forever hold him.

It just sounded like you were applying that to the First Advent.

 

[WPM]

After the final judgment after Christ's earthly reign.

When is that?

 

[WPM]

On this earth first during His earthly reign, and then also on the new earth, when God and the Lamb dwell with men.

Abraham gets the land he walked on this earth, and Job see Him on this earth doing so.

On the new earth all the land is the nations' with God dwelling among them in New Jerusalem.



Except spiritual sickness of soul, since the nations will come to the New Jerusalem for healing from the fruits of the tree of life.

The natural nations can live forever, so long as they come to the city of God for healing from sinning.

Those who repent not, will die, because they will not be allowed through the gates of the city:

And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there. And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it.

And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.

Even as today, those sinning against God are not written in the Lamb's book of Life while sinning, except they repent, and come to the Lamb for forgiveness and healing of their souls.

When Jesus heard it, he saith unto them, They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

Man's vision of 'utopia' never exists in Scripture of God. Once you begin to account for all Scripture, and to take all the words seriously enough, then you will have a more accurate vision of revelation of Scripture.

God and the Lamb, as now, will forever be accounting for natural men that do well, and them that sin.

That is the cost God counted before ever creating heaven and earth, and men in His own image.

For which of you, intending to build a tower, sitteth not down first, and counteth the cost, whether he have sufficient to finish it?

It started good with one or two, was fully bad before the flood, got better for many more after Abraham, went fully bad and worst at the cross, is much much better with the gospel today, and will be really greatly better during His earthly reign, and will be best there can ever be in the new heaven and earth.

But there will always be imperfect natural men and women, along with the perfect God and Lamb, obedient angels, and perfected resurrected saints.







Flees before the judgement, and passed away before the creation of the new heaven and earth.




No more new evil doers will be allowed to enter the gates of the city, and so will die off.


Because you still don't take every word of Scripture seriously enough to account for them.

And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

The word them means them, which mean them ruled after smiting them of the nations gathered at Armageddon.

Your Symbol Man's reading of Scripture, also does away with taking every word as literally necessary in the Scripture, nor as meaning exactly what the word is.

You dismiss them ruled over after smiting of nations, because you don't want them there.

Just because you want to act like them isn't written there, them is still written there.

God doesn't need a multitude of Scripture to convince them that don't believe every word of Scripture as written.

That's why we don't need to endlessly debate with christ-creators, because of the one Scripture that says the Word was God.

Simple.

Your teachers have misled you. The bondage of corruption is lifted at the second coming and the intro of the NHNE. You are building your theology on a misinterpretation of Rev 21-22.

 

[WPM]

The only think about heavens being no more, is your personal words added to Scripture.

I mean, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that.

Let the Bible speak for itself.

 

[Truth7t7]

On this earth first during His earthly reign, and then also on the new earth, when God and the Lamb dwell with men.

Abraham gets the land he walked on this earth, and Job see Him on this earth doing so.

On the new earth all the land is the nations' with God dwelling among them in New Jerusalem.



Except spiritual sickness of soul, since the nations will come to the New Jerusalem for healing from the fruits of the tree of life.

The natural nations can live forever, so long as they come to the city of God for healing from sinning.

Those who repent not, will die, because they will not be allowed through the gates of the city:

And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there. And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it.

And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.

Even as today, those sinning against God are not written in the Lamb's book of Life while sinning, except they repent, and come to the Lamb for forgiveness and healing of their souls.

When Jesus heard it, he saith unto them, They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

Man's vision of 'utopia' never exists in Scripture of God. Once you begin to account for all Scripture, and to take all the words seriously enough, then you will have a more accurate vision of revelation of Scripture.

God and the Lamb, as now, will forever be accounting for natural men that do well, and them that sin.

That is the cost God counted before ever creating heaven and earth, and men in His own image.

For which of you, intending to build a tower, sitteth not down first, and counteth the cost, whether he have sufficient to finish it?

It started good with one or two, was fully bad before the flood, got better for many more after Abraham, went fully bad and worst at the cross, is much much better with the gospel today, and will be really greatly better during His earthly reign, and will be best there can ever be in the new heaven and earth.

But there will always be imperfect natural men and women, along with the perfect God and Lamb, obedient angels, and perfected resurrected saints.







Flees before the judgement, and passed away before the creation of the new heaven and earth.




No more new evil doers will be allowed to enter the gates of the city, and so will die off.


Because you still don't take every word of Scripture seriously enough to account for them.

And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

The word them means them, which mean them ruled after smiting them of the nations gathered at Armageddon.

Your Symbol Man's reading of Scripture, also does away with taking every word as literally necessary in the Scripture, nor as meaning exactly what the word is.

You dismiss them ruled over after smiting of nations, because you don't want them there.

Just because you want to act like them isn't written there, them is still written there.

God doesn't need a multitude of Scripture to convince them that don't believe every word of Scripture as written.

That's why we don't need to endlessly debate with christ-creators, because of the one Scripture that says the Word was God.

Simple.

The Eternal Kingdom is seen in Ezekiel Chapters 47-48 regarding the division of land for inheritance in the "New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem"

"The Eternal Kingdom, In The New Heaven And Earth"

Ezekiel 47:12-14KJV
12 And by the river upon the bank thereof, on this side and on that side, shall grow all trees for meat, whose leaf shall not fade, neither shall the fruit thereof be consumed: it shall bring forth new fruit according to his months, because their waters they issued out of the sanctuary: and the fruit thereof shall be for meat, and the leaf thereof for medicine.
13 Thus saith the Lord God; This shall be the border, whereby ye shall inherit the land according to the twelve tribes of Israel: Joseph shall have two portions.
14 And ye shall inherit it, one as well as another: concerning the which I lifted up mine hand to give it unto your fathers: and this land shall fall unto you for inheritance.

"The Eternal New Jerusalem"

Ezekiel 48:29-35KJV
29 This is the land which ye shall divide by lot unto the tribes of Israel for inheritance, and these are their portions, saith the Lord God.
30 And these are the goings out of the city on the north side, four thousand and five hundred measures.
31 And the gates of the city shall be after the names of the tribes of Israel: three gates northward; one gate of Reuben, one gate of Judah, one gate of Levi.
32 And at the east side four thousand and five hundred: and three gates; and one gate of Joseph, one gate of Benjamin, one gate of Dan.
33 And at the south side four thousand and five hundred measures: and three gates; one gate of Simeon, one gate of Issachar, one gate of Zebulun.
34 At the west side four thousand and five hundred, with their three gates; one gate of Gad, one gate of Asher, one gate of Naphtali.
35 It was round about eighteen thousand measures: and the name of the city from that day shall be, The Lord is there.

"The Eternal New Jerusalem"

Revelation 21:10-14KJV
10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,
11 Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal;
12 And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:
13 On the east three gates; on the north three gates; on the south three gates; and on the west three gates.
14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.

 

[robert derrick]

That will happen AFTER the current "heavens are no longer". Did you not even read his post and the scripture he posted?

So, the only way for "his Redeemer and God" to stand on this earth is to stand on this earth after it has been renewed (the new earth) since it will occur after the current "heavens are no longer".

That will happen after the Lord returns with His resurrected saints to rule them on this earth.

That will include Job seeing the Lord give the land to Abraham that he walked on this earth.

 

[robert derrick]

Let the Bible speak for itself.

I do. And you speak for yourself when adding to it.

 

[robert derrick]

Job 19:25 (KJV) For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth:


These words from Job too are fulfilled.

Not upon the earth.

In his body alive, which is what flesh implies, Job is with the Lord in heaven. He ascended there with Christ after His resurrection. Job did not ascend to heaven with the Lord in his physical body of flesh, but as a spiritual body.

He is in the presence of all saints that have died in Christ. They do not have their resurrected bodies from the dust of the earth.

None of the saints have their resurrected spiritual bodies yet.

When they do at His return, they will all see our Lord standing upon this earth to rule and judge.

 

[Truth7t7]

That will happen after the Lord returns with His resurrected saints to rule them on this earth.

That will include Job seeing the Lord give the land to Abraham that he walked on this earth.

Many claim Jesus will literally return and rule "On This Earth" In A Millennium this being false in deception

Jesus warned his followers against this teaching, Jesus wont be found anywhere upon this earth as many claim

The Antichrist will be in Jerusalem, claiming to be Messiah Returned, "Beware"!

"Believe It Not" "Go Not Forth"

Matthew 24:23-27KJV
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Revelation 13:13-14KJV
13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

Revelation 19:20KJV
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

 

[rwb]

Not upon the earth.

In what earth was Christ born, and walk upon if not this current earth?

He is in the presence of all saints that have died in Christ. They do not have their resurrected bodies from the dust of the earth.

None of the saints have their resurrected spiritual bodies yet.

When they do at His return, they will all see our Lord standing upon this earth to rule and judge.

That's because heaven is not a physical habitation, but a spiritual one. And heaven is where believers ascend when their physical body breathes its last. In death believers, through His Spirit in us depart from our physical body and ascend to heaven a spiritual body as Paul shows us in 1Cor 15. Believers don't receive resurrected spiritual bodies when Christ comes again. We shall be physically resurrected when He comes the second time. And our bodies changed from mortal to immortal and corruptible to incorruptible. Our immortal physical body will, together with our eternal spirit once more be a complete living soul, as we were in the beginning when God created man. Then we live with Christ FOREVER on the new earth where there will be no more Satan, sin, pain, sorrow, death, nothing impure will be there.

 

[WPM]

That will happen after the Lord returns with His resurrected saints to rule them on this earth.

That will include Job seeing the Lord give the land to Abraham that he walked on this earth.

No. It occurs at the time that the current heavens are removed, thus forbidding Premil.

Is the removal of the currrent heavens and intro of the NHNE at or after the millennium/Satan'slittleseason?

 

[robert derrick]

When is that?

Sorry. not clear enough.

After the final 'great white throne' judgment, which is after the scorching of the earth with Gog and Magog, which is after the thousand year earthly reign of Christ with His resurrected saints.

All of that is in Rev 20.

The creation of the new heaven and earth is in Rev 21, which is after all that in Rev 20.

 

[robert derrick]

The bondage of corruption is lifted at the second coming and the intro of the NHNE.

If the bondage of corruption has not lifted from you yet, then you're in serious need of repentance.

According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:

Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

 

[WPM]

If the bondage of corruption has not lifted from you yet, then you're in serious need of repentance.

According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:

Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

The difficulty with engaging with you is that you do not have a clue what Amils believe. We have to explain the elementary basics to you on every topic. You should actually start listening before running your mouth off as some pseudo expert on Amil.

If you think Rev 20 is portraying a perfect earth devoid of the bondage of corruption you have an issue with plain straightforward English, not just Amil. This is more proof it relates to the here-and'now.

 

[Truth7t7]

If the bondage of corruption has not lifted from you yet, then you're in serious need of repentance.

According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:

Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

WPM is 100% correct, the bondage of "Corruption" is lifted at the second coming, when mortal turns into immortal

If you think corruption is gone, try looking at yourself 30 years ago, and see if that Ole body isn't in corruption and decay, smiles!

Jesus Is The Lord

 

[robert derrick]

The Eternal Kingdom is seen in Ezekiel Chapters 47-48 regarding the division of land for inheritance in the "New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem"

False.

And, behold, the glory of the God of Israel came from the way of the east: and his voice was like a noise of many waters: and the earth shined with his glory. And the glory of the LORD came into the house by the way of the gate whose prospect is toward the east.

The house and temple of the prophecy on earth will be entered into by the Lord with His glory.

And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.

And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.

God and the Lamb are the temple, the glory, and the Light of New Jerusalem on the new earth.

Even as the city is not made with hands for God to enter with His glory, neither is there any such house and temple for Him to enter.

Ezekiel cannot be speaking of the new heaven and earth.

 

[robert derrick]

The Eternal Kingdom is seen in Ezekiel Chapters 47-48 regarding the division of land for inheritance in the "New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem"​

​

Thy kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and thy dominion endureth throughout all generations.​

​

The eternal spiritual kingdom of God is spirit, even as He is Spirit.​

​

The earthly kingdom of God is the dominion of His spiritual kingdom, wheresoever Christ's rule is obeyed.​

​

And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.​

​

This is why He commands man made in His spiritually pure and righteous image, to go and subdue the earth in Gen 1.​

​

When man sins against God with the devil, to corrupt His own soul, that rule of God's spiritual eternal kingdom, is then in the devil's hands over the earth.​

​

And so, in the beginning, His spiritual kingdom and dominion was over all the garden with Adam and Eve.​

​

Then His spiritual kingdom was over certain men on earth, as Abel, Enoch, Noah, Abraham.​

​

Then over a nation of people the children of Israel.​

​

And now is over all people that call upon His name.​

​

And will be over all the earth established by Himself on earth.​

​

And finally will be over all the new earth, where He dwells with man.​

​

What Adam and men and nations have failed to do since the commandment of Gen 1, the second Adam will do Himself.​

​

And saviours shall come up on mount Zion to judge the mount of Esau; and the kingdom shall be the LORD'S.​

​

When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory on earth:​

​

The risen Lord will return with His saints to judge all the earth from mount Zion, where He will enter into the temple at Jerusalem with His glory, to sit upon the throne of His glory.​

​

At that time, as King and Judge, He will establish His spiritual kingdom over all the earth, and call all people unto His glory and virtue, and many will answer that call:​

​

And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD'S house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.​

​

And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.​

​

That spiritual kingdom of God will be over all the earth, lands, and peoples, without any Satan to resist the King, nor His subjects freely coming to Him.​

​

​

​

"The Eternal Kingdom, In The New Heaven And Earth"​

​

Ezekiel 47:12-14KJV​

12 And by the river upon the bank thereof, on this side and on that side, shall grow all trees for meat, whose leaf shall not fade, neither shall the fruit thereof be consumed: it shall bring forth new fruit according to his months, because their waters they issued out of the sanctuary: and the fruit thereof shall be for meat, and the leaf thereof for medicine.​

13 Thus saith the Lord God; This shall be the border, whereby ye shall inherit the land according to the twelve tribes of Israel: Joseph shall have two portions.​

14 And ye shall inherit it, one as well as another: concerning the which I lifted up mine hand to give it unto your fathers: and this land shall fall unto you for inheritance.​

​

"The Eternal New Jerusalem"​

​

Ezekiel 48:29-35KJV​

29 This is the land which ye shall divide by lot unto the tribes of Israel for inheritance, and these are their portions, saith the Lord God.​

30 And these are the goings out of the city on the north side, four thousand and five hundred measures.​

31 And the gates of the city shall be after the names of the tribes of Israel: three gates northward; one gate of Reuben, one gate of Judah, one gate of Levi.​

32 And at the east side four thousand and five hundred: and three gates; and one gate of Joseph, one gate of Benjamin, one gate of Dan.​

33 And at the south side four thousand and five hundred measures: and three gates; one gate of Simeon, one gate of Issachar, one gate of Zebulun.​

34 At the west side four thousand and five hundred, with their three gates; one gate of Gad, one gate of Asher, one gate of Naphtali.​

35 It was round about eighteen thousand measures: and the name of the city from that day shall be, The Lord is there.​

​

"The Eternal New Jerusalem"​

​

Revelation 21:10-14KJV​

10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,​

11 Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal;​

12 And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:​

13 On the east three gates; on the north three gates; on the south three gates; and on the west three gates.​

14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.​

This will be with God dwelling among men, and having dominion over all the new earth, after Satan is cast into the lake of fire.​

​

First Christ will do so over all this earth, while Satan is shut up and bound in the bottomless pit.​

​

There will be no more loosing of Satan with the new heaven and earth.​

 

[Truth7t7]

False.

And, behold, the glory of the God of Israel came from the way of the east: and his voice was like a noise of many waters: and the earth shined with his glory. And the glory of the LORD came into the house by the way of the gate whose prospect is toward the east.

The house and temple of the prophecy on earth will be entered into by the Lord with His glory.

And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.

And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.

God and the Lamb are the temple, the glory, and the Light of New Jerusalem on the new earth.

Even as the city is not made with hands for God to enter with His glory, neither is there any such house and temple for Him to enter.

Ezekiel cannot be speaking of the new heaven and earth.

When you discuss scripture in forums "Please" post the

1. Book
2. Chapter
3. Verse(s)
4. Version

I will respond after you make this courtesy correction, thanks!