22 major reasons to abandon the Premil doctrine

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jeffweeder

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That is why Amill is true and Premill is false.
Premill has massive sinful rebellion 1000 years after the second coming and Amill does not, as all is fully consummated and made new at his second coming. There is hope for you yet Timothy.


Seriously, If the GLORIFIED Lord comes a second time and glorifies the saved who have believed, then why doesnt this powerful witness convince everyone else of the truth of the Gospel that has been preached for Millenia.???

What possible hope is left for conversion for these dimwitted ignorant fools that God would be patient with them for a further 1000 years after the truth that is in Jesus has been unquestionably confirmed at his powerful and great and glorious coming second coming in the power and glory of his Father.???



Discipleship Is Costly​

24 Then Jesus said to His disciples, “If anyone wishes to follow Me [as My disciple], he must deny himself [set aside selfish interests], and take up his cross [expressing a willingness to endure whatever may come] and follow Me [believing in Me, conforming to My example in living and, if need be, suffering or perhaps dying because of faith in Me].

25 For whoever wishes to save his life [in this world] will [eventually] lose it [through death], but whoever loses his life [in this world] for My sake will find it [that is, life with Me for all eternity].

26 For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world [wealth, fame, success], but forfeits his soul? Or what will a man give in exchange for his soul?

27 For the Son of Man is going to come in the glory and majesty of His Father with His angels, and then He will repay each one in accordance with what he has done.
 

WPM

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That applies after Adam disobeyed God. For as by one man sin entered the world. That will not apply after the Second Coming. Daniel 9:24.

There was no sin prior to Adam's disobedience. There will be no sin in Revelation 20 post the Second Coming.

Where in Daniel 9:24 and Revelation 20 teaches "there will be no sin ... post the Second Coming"?
 

Keraz

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Where in Daniel 9:24 and Revelation 20 teaches "there will be no sin ... post the Second Coming"?
Revelation 20:1-3, when Satan, the great deceiver, is chained and shut into the pit, he won't be able to fool anyone, until he is released again after the Millennium. Then for just a short time.
If Satan had not deceived Eve and then Adam, sin would never have happened. But God's Purpose was to obtain for Himself, a people who, when given the choice; have freely chosen God and kept His Commandments. The rest of mankind are simply made for destruction. Romans 9:22
All the sinners will be destroyed at or before Jesus Returns. Then; after the thousand years, people will again have a choice; God or Satan. The fate of those who choose Satan, is into the Lake of Fire.
 

WPM

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Revelation 20:1-3, when Satan, the great deceiver, is chained and shut into the pit, he won't be able to fool anyone, until he is released again after the Millennium. Then for just a short time.
If Satan had not deceived Eve and then Adam, sin would never have happened. But God's Purpose was to obtain for Himself, a people who, when given the choice; have freely chosen God and kept His Commandments. The rest of mankind are simply made for destruction. Romans 9:22
All the sinners will be destroyed at or before Jesus Returns. Then; after the thousand years, people will again have a choice; God or Satan. The fate of those who choose Satan, is into the Lake of Fire.

OK, if all of the righteous are glorified at the second coming, and all the wicked are destroyed, who is this imaginary third group that you invent that overrun your future millennium?
 

Keraz

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OK, if all of the righteous are glorified at the second coming, and all the wicked are destroyed, who is this imaginary third group that you invent that overrun your future millennium?
Firstly no one is glorified when Jesus Returns. Mortal humans will inhabit the earth during the Millennium.
Those who were killed for their faith during the GTrib, will be resurrected back to mortality; Lazarus was the precursor.

The group who are seduced by Satan, after he has been released, are those, who when given a choice, will choose Satan and reject Christ. Just how it is now,
See how the ancient Israelites were so quick to worship a golden calf and how easily people are deceived today.
 

WPM

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Firstly no one is glorified when Jesus Returns. Mortal humans will inhabit the earth during the Millennium.
Those who were killed for their faith during the GTrib, will be resurrected back to mortality; Lazarus was the precursor.

The group who are seduced by Satan, after he has been released, are those, who when given a choice, will choose Satan and reject Christ. Just how it is now,
See how the ancient Israelites were so quick to worship a golden calf and how easily people are deceived today.

Nonsense. BTW, do you believe in the deity of Christ? Time to stop avoiding.
 
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Keraz

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Others here can see who provide scriptures to support their beliefs and who has unsupportable beliefs, so resorts to red herrings and personal attacks.

Back to the OP of this thread: The reason I abandon the premill doctrine AND the AMill doctrine, is because they both ignore many scriptures that forbit those false ideas.
No one will go to heaven; ever, Jesus said so. John 3:13 AND Jesus will Return and reign on earth for the next thousand years. Rev 20
 

Timtofly

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Where in Daniel 9:24 and Revelation 20 teaches "there will be no sin ... post the Second Coming"?
"to make an end of sins"

"Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years."
 

Timtofly

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That is why Amill is true and Premill is false.
Premill has massive sinful rebellion 1000 years after the second coming and Amill does not, as all is fully consummated and made new at his second coming. There is hope for you yet Timothy.
Amil has massive sinful rebellion after the Second Coming.

Pre-mill allow humans without sin to leave their first estate like the angels did.
 

WPM

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"to make an end of sins"

"Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years."

Daniel 9:24 predicts, “Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to (1) finish the transgression, and to (2) make an end of sins, and to (3) make reconciliation for iniquity, and to (4) bring in everlasting righteousness, and to (5) seal up the vision and prophecy, and to (6) anoint the most Holy” (Daniel 9:24).

It is these six things alone that are clearly and deliberately predicted (in Daniel 9) to occur within the 70 weeks – thus “seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to…” Therefore, for one to apply this plain Messianic prophecy to anti-Christ (as Pretribbers do) could justifiably warrant the unenviable charge of peddling with full-blown apostasy. After all, applying something to anti-Christ, which evidently relates alone to the Savior, is gross error.

All these predictions were perfectly fulfilled in the person of Christ and in His wonderful earthly ministry. He spent 3 ½ years fulfilling every expectation that the Father demanded, from His arrival on the public scene (and His heavenly vindication from the Father after He was baptised) to His atoning death and His victorious resurrection for the grave. All of these predictions have been met in one man – the man Christ Jesus.
 
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WPM

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Others here can see who provide scriptures to support their beliefs and who has unsupportable beliefs, so resorts to red herrings and personal attacks.

Back to the OP of this thread: The reason I abandon the premill doctrine AND the AMill doctrine, is because they both ignore many scriptures that forbit those false ideas.
No one will go to heaven; ever, Jesus said so. John 3:13 AND Jesus will Return and reign on earth for the next thousand years. Rev 20

Time to stop avoiding. Do you believe in the deity of Christ?
 

Timtofly

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Daniel 9:24 predicts, “Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to (1) finish the transgression, and to (2) make an end of sins, and to (3) make reconciliation for iniquity, and to (4) bring in everlasting righteousness, and to (5) seal up the vision and prophecy, and to (6) anoint the most Holy” (Daniel 9:24).

It is these six things alone that are clearly and deliberately predicted (in Daniel 9) to occur within the 70 weeks – thus “seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to…” Therefore, for one to apply this plain Messianic prophecy to anti-Christ (as Pretribbers do) could justifiably warrant the unenviable charge of peddling with full-blown apostasy. After all, applying something to anti-Christ, which evidently relates alone to the Savior, is gross error.

All these predictions were perfectly fulfilled in the person of Christ and in His wonderful earthly ministry. He spent 3 ½ years fulfilling every expectation that the Father demanded, from His arrival on the public scene (and His heavenly vindication from the Father after He was baptised) to His atoning death and His victorious resurrection for the grave. All of these predictions have been met in one man – the man Christ Jesus.
Not within the 70 weeks.

After the 70 weeks. Gabriel ended at the end of 69 weeks.

After the 69th week the Messiah was cut off, not within those 69 weeks, but after.

There was plenty of time for those 70 weeks to end. But the 70th week only ends at the 7th Trumpet. That is when time is declared finished for those 70 weeks.

Sin is still present. Everlasting righteousness does not reign currently. Those are attributes of the Day of the Lord you deny will happen. Your view states the Day of the Lord started at the Cross, and ends at the Second Coming. Yet you have sin in your Day of the Lord, and the lack of everlasting righteousness. Mostly because you end the 70th week without Israel enjoying that fruit of completion.

No one is denying Jesus did not fully obey God. That is only part of Daniel 9. The other part is the Prince to come. The Second Coming of King Jesus. That is as much a part of Daniel 9 as the Messiah part. No throne of Jesus was ever set up in Jerusalem equal to the Cross of the Messiah.

Jesus as Christ and King will fulfill that point for Israel. The fulness of the Gentiles is not the fulfillment of Daniel 9:24-27. The 7th Trumpet is that fulfillment, and the 1,000 year reign of Christ is between the Second Coming and the end. Between the 7th Trumpet and Jesus handing back creation to God.

John points out that time is up for those 70 weeks in Revelation 10. Revelation being the revealing of Jesus as King. Then when the 7th Trumpet begins we do see:

"And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever."

This was not a point of time in the first century. This is the point in time, like the Cross, where Jesus as King was obedient in taking over the authority of all earthly kingdoms, after an earthly ministry. This earthly ministry only happens after the Second Coming, and Jesus is physically on earth.
 

WPM

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Not within the 70 weeks.

After the 70 weeks. Gabriel ended at the end of 69 weeks.

After the 69th week the Messiah was cut off, not within those 69 weeks, but after.

There was plenty of time for those 70 weeks to end. But the 70th week only ends at the 7th Trumpet. That is when time is declared finished for those 70 weeks.

Sin is still present. Everlasting righteousness does not reign currently. Those are attributes of the Day of the Lord you deny will happen. Your view states the Day of the Lord started at the Cross, and ends at the Second Coming. Yet you have sin in your Day of the Lord, and the lack of everlasting righteousness. Mostly because you end the 70th week without Israel enjoying that fruit of completion.

No one is denying Jesus did not fully obey God. That is only part of Daniel 9. The other part is the Prince to come. The Second Coming of King Jesus. That is as much a part of Daniel 9 as the Messiah part. No throne of Jesus was ever set up in Jerusalem equal to the Cross of the Messiah.

Jesus as Christ and King will fulfill that point for Israel. The fulness of the Gentiles is not the fulfillment of Daniel 9:24-27. The 7th Trumpet is that fulfillment, and the 1,000 year reign of Christ is between the Second Coming and the end. Between the 7th Trumpet and Jesus handing back creation to God.

John points out that time is up for those 70 weeks in Revelation 10. Revelation being the revealing of Jesus as King. Then when the 7th Trumpet begins we do see:

"And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever."

This was not a point of time in the first century. This is the point in time, like the Cross, where Jesus as King was obedient in taking over the authority of all earthly kingdoms, after an earthly ministry. This earthly ministry only happens after the Second Coming, and Jesus is physically on earth.

According to you, but, not according to the Bible.

(1) The first part (7 weeks) relates to the rebuilding of Jerusalem. The angel said of the first aspect relating to the rebuilding of Jerusalem, in the first seven weeks, “the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.”
(2) The second part (62 weeks) takes up to the beginning of Christ’s earthly ministry.
(3) The third part (1 week) commences with the start of Christ’s earthly ministry and sees the crucifixion half way through it (3 ½ yrs). The other 3 ½ yrs saw the Church receive its baptism of fire at Pentecost and enter into the fulfilment of advancing the Gospel – the nations now being open to the Gospel, unlike before.

The question the futurists must answer is: is there any division in time between the 7th and 8th weeks?

The answer, of course, is a categorical NO!

Then, what scriptural warrant is there for, in unprecedented manner, decapitating this harmonious cohesive Messianic prophecy, aimlessly and indefinitely projecting the final week 2000 years+ into the unknown to a supposed end-time 7-year period, when it was perfectly fulfilled in the life and time of our Lord’s ministry, especially when there is absolutely NO corroborated in the New Testament for this 70th week gap-theory. As we have already stated, probably, the most distasteful aspect of this corrupt teaching is how they corruptly attribute it to anti-Christ at the end when it explicitly relates to Christ and His atonement 2000 years ago? To be honest, with this form of hermeneutics you could potentially corrupt any Old Testament passage and apply it to whatever time-period or matter one wishes.

The text does not in any way demand a gap; the Futurists unilaterally (without any scriptural warrant and for his own reason) chooses to insert one there in order to support his unsound theology. Those who do or condone such are unquestionably gap-theorists.

The text does demand – “Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to (1) finish the transgression, and to (2) make an end of sins, and to (3) make reconciliation for iniquity, and to (4) bring in everlasting righteousness, and to (5) seal up the vision and prophecy, and to (6) anoint the most Holy” (Daniel 9:24).

These 6 elements must therefore be fulfilled (1) in Messiah, and (2) must come mid-way through the final week. The desolation is not within the 70 weeks, it is the visible result of the fulfilment of numbers 1-6 in the midst of the week i.e. the rendering of the temple’s former use obsolete.

What is the greater abomination, rejecting the once all-sufficient sacrifice of Calvary, as the Jews evidently did (and are doing), or abolishing or rejecting any idolatrous animal sacrifices in an imaginary temple? The Pretrib scenario is fanciful anyway as the temple has been (and is being) built – Christ’s body.

The “overspreading of abominations” was the rebellious idolatrous continuing of the temple sacrifices by the Jews after they were abolished at Calvary (1/2 way through the final week). And despite God allowing them time to repent in the intervening 40-year period (AD 30-AD 70), they stubbornly rebelled. The blasphemous continuing of the old order – the abolished (imperfect) sacrifices – occasioned the destruction of the temple – 40 being a perfect probationary period. When the practicing of the temple sacrifices had reached their allotted time-span, God destroyed them and the temple.
 

Timtofly

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Nonsense! Where and how?
You keep arguing that point. You are an Amil.

Besides your current Day of the Lord actually still has sin in it.

Most pre-mill are wrong because they have been taught wrong. No where is it pointed out in Scripture there is sin in the Millennium after the Second Coming. Not even in Isaiah 65. Daniel 9:24 is the attributes of the Millennial Day of the Lord.
 

Timtofly

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hmmx1: Amill has glorification for the dead and alive in Christ at his second coming. Cnine:
Amil deny it is on current earth. Daniel 9:24 is current creation, not the NHNE. Besides most Amil claim the 70th week over in the first century. So basically the same point as the post Second Coming time frame.
 

WPM

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You keep arguing that point. You are an Amil.

Answer my question. Where did I say that?

Besides your current Day of the Lord actually still has sin in it.

The day of the Lord has not arrived yet. It is the day that Jesus comes. This tells everyone how ignorant you are of Amillennialism.

Most pre-mill are wrong because they have been taught wrong. No where is it pointed out in Scripture there is sin in the Millennium after the Second Coming. Not even in Isaiah 65. Daniel 9:24 is the attributes of the Millennial Day of the Lord.

OK, if all of the righteous are glorified at the second coming, and all the wicked are destroyed, who is this imaginary third group that you invent that overrun your future millennium?
 
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covenantee

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Everlasting righteousness does not reign currently.
1 Corinthians 1:30
But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

2 Corinthians 5:21
For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

1 Peter 2:24
Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

1 John 2:29
If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.


Lots of righteousness was reigning already 2,000 years ago.

If it wasn't everlasting righteousness, when did it end?
 
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