22 major reasons to abandon the Premil doctrine

[CadyandZoe]

The first video I watched was your pastor. Really liked it. Then I watched one of yours. It was excellent also. I thought it was the same person. You definitely have some analytical skills. That's why I wanted to see a rapture video. I'm puzzled as to how someone with your analytical skills and attention to detail don't see there will be a pretribulation rapture. Most people don't really understand the scripture and just read past all the important details. I could tell you were seeing and understanding more than the normal. By your video I could also tell you are not a closed minded individual but one I think that seeks the truth. I'm going to start reading more of your posts and watch a few more of your videos. Here's a strange question for you, I hope you won't mind answering. Are you of German ancestry per chance?

Many years ago, I worked at a defense electronics company and at that time a German Engineer/Scientist asked me the same question. I said I didn't know. He told me that he was certain that I had German ancestry, and began to tell me the meaning of my last name. Not wishing to reveal my last name online, I'll tell you the rest when we meet in heaven. :)

I think the Tribulation is an interesting subject and I must admit that I need a bit more study before I can be dogmatic. Based on my own study and many on-line discussions I continue to wonder whether there might be two distinct realities, both of which are called "Tribulation?" On the one hand, we have the persecution of believers down through history, which is called "Tribulation." And on the other hand, we seem to have the persecution of the Jewish people, also called "Tribulation" in the Bible.

I need to sort this out for myself before I can truly say that I am pre, mid, or post trib. I think I am post-trib but in your mind, I might be pretrib depending on how you have sorted things out.

 

[Truth7t7]

Why can you not address counter arguments? Please stop avoiding. It is only serving to expose your theology.

You have no argument to the facts presented below, it's WPM that's exposed, read strongs again

Read Strongs Again and Again, "A Human Being" "Individual Male"

Denial of a future literal human man as seen and presented, is 1,000X more dangerous for the unaware, than Teaching of a Pre-Trib Rapture or Millennial Kingdom

Your belief and teaching is "Scary" in future deception to the unaware, in concealing the future identity of the Little Horn, Man Of Sin, The Beast "Dangerous"

(Let No Man Deceive You By Any Means)

Strongs (Of A Man) Revelation 13:18

Strong’s Definitions
ἀνήρ anḗr, an'-ayr; a primary word (compare G444); a man (properly as an individual male):—fellow, husband, man, sir.

Strong’s Definitions
ἄνθρωπος ánthrōpos, anth'-ro-pos; from G435 and ὤψ ṓps (the countenance; from G3700); man-faced, i.e. a human being:—certain, man.

Revelation 13:18KJV
18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

 

[WPM]

During the future tribulation period, the world will be ruled by a godless man presiding over an evil governmental system. The Bible associates this end-times ruler with a terrible beast in Revelation and in Daniel.
In Revelation 13 John sees a nightmarish vision of a dragon and two beasts. The first beast comes out of the sea and receives power from the dragon, or Satan. This beast is a true monstrosity: “It had ten horns and seven heads, with ten crowns on its horns, and on each head a blasphemous name. The beast I saw resembled a leopard, but had feet like those of a bear and a mouth like that of a lion” (Revelation 13:1–2). Daniel’s vision of the beast is similar in many ways to John’s (Daniel 7:7–8, 19–27). Studying both Daniel and Revelation in tandem is profitable.

In Revelation, the term beast refers to two related entities. Sometimes “the beast” refers to the end-times’ empire. The seven heads and ten horns indicate that the beast will be a coalition of nations that rises to power to subdue the earth under Satan’s control. Later references to “the beast” in Revelation picture an individual—the man who is the political leader and head of the beastly empire.

The beast will receive a deadly wound and be healed of it (Revelation 13:3). He will exert authority over the whole world and demand worship (verses 7–8). He will wage war against God’s people, and he will prevail against them for a time (Revelation 13:7; Daniel 7:21). However, the beast’s time is short: according to Revelation 13:5 and Daniel 7:25, he will only be permitted absolute authority for forty-two months (three-and-a-half years).

I believe that the beast in Revelation is the Antichrist the one who will “oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God’s temple, proclaiming himself to be God” (2 Thessalonians 2:4). He is also called “the man of lawlessness” and “the man doomed to destruction” (2 Thessalonians 2:3). In Daniel’s vision, the Antichrist is the “little horn” that rises from the head of the terrifying beast (Daniel 7:8).

When the Lord returns in judgment, He will defeat the beast and destroy his empire (Revelation 19:19–20; cf. Daniel 7:11). The beast will be cast alive into the lake of fire. The identity of the individual who will become the beast of Revelation is not yet known. According to 2 Thessalonians 2:7, this man will be revealed only when God removes the restraining influence of the Holy Spirit from the earth.

It is interesting to compare the differing biblical visions of the kingdoms of the world. In Daniel 2, King Nebuchadnezzar dreams of the kingdoms of the world as “a large statue—an enormous, dazzling statue, awesome in appearance” (Daniel 2:31). The prophet Daniel later sees a vision of the same kingdoms, except he sees them as hideous beasts (Daniel 7). In John’s vision of the final worldly kingdom, the empire is portrayed as a grotesque and misshapen beast. These passages present two very different perspectives on the kingdoms mankind builds. Man sees his creations as imposing monuments and works of art fashioned of valuable metals. However, God’s view of the same kingdoms is that they are unnatural monsters. And the beast of Revelation will be the worst of them all.

None of this makes sense. Pretribs do not come close to answering in any kind of credible, coherent, reasonable or convincing way how there is a rapture of the Church followed by a prolonged tribulation followed by a 3rd coming of Christ. And, yes, most don't even try because they know it is not in the Book! There is no explicit or vague Scripture that teaches this.

 

[WPM]

You have no argument to the facts presented below, read strongs again

Read Strongs Again and Again, "A Human Being" "Individual Male"

Denial of a future literal human man as seen and presented, is 1,000X more dangerous for the unaware, than Teaching of a Pre-Trib Rapture or Millennial Kingdom

Your belief and teaching is "Scary" in future deception to the unaware, in concealing the future identity of the Little Horn, Man Of Sin, The Beast "Dangerous"

(Let No Man Deceive You By Any Means)

Strongs (Of A Man) Revelation 13:18

Strong’s Definitions
ἀνήρ anḗr, an'-ayr; a primary word (compare G444); a man (properly as an individual male):—fellow, husband, man, sir.

Strong’s Definitions
ἄνθρωπος ánthrōpos, anth'-ro-pos; from G435 and ὤψ ṓps (the countenance; from G3700); man-faced, i.e. a human being:—certain, man.

Revelation 13:18KJV
18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

You expect people to address your arguments, but you refuse to address their arguments. That is because your theology does not abide scrutiny, and you know it. I have addressed your error numerous times. You have avoided numerous times. Avoidance is your MO. Robot posting is what you do.

 

[Truth7t7]

You expect people to address your arguments, but you refuse to address their arguments. That is because your theology does not abide scrutiny, and you know it. I have addressed your error numerous times. You have avoided numerous times. Avoidance is your MO. Robot posting is what you do.

Are you claiming the Greek scholar Strong below is wrong and your right?

Read Strongs Again and Again, "A Human Being" "Individual Male"

Denial of a future literal human man as seen and presented, is 1,000X more dangerous for the unaware, than Teaching of a Pre-Trib Rapture or Millennial Kingdom

Your belief and teaching is "Scary" in future deception to the unaware, in concealing the future identity of the Little Horn, Man Of Sin, The Beast "Dangerous"

(Let No Man Deceive You By Any Means)

Strongs (Of A Man) Revelation 13:18

Strong’s Definitions
ἀνήρ anḗr, an'-ayr; a primary word (compare G444); a man (properly as an individual male):—fellow, husband, man, sir.

Strong’s Definitions
ἄνθρωπος ánthrōpos, anth'-ro-pos; from G435 and ὤψ ṓps (the countenance; from G3700); man-faced, i.e. a human being:—certain, man.

Revelation 13:18KJV
18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

 

[WPM]

Are you claiming the Greek scholar Strong below is wrong and your right?

Read Strongs Again and Again, "A Human Being" "Individual Male"

Denial of a future literal human man as seen and presented, is 1,000X more dangerous for the unaware, than Teaching of a Pre-Trib Rapture or Millennial Kingdom

Your belief and teaching is "Scary" in future deception to the unaware, in concealing the future identity of the Little Horn, Man Of Sin, The Beast "Dangerous"

(Let No Man Deceive You By Any Means)

Strongs (Of A Man) Revelation 13:18

Strong’s Definitions
ἀνήρ anḗr, an'-ayr; a primary word (compare G444); a man (properly as an individual male):—fellow, husband, man, sir.

Strong’s Definitions
ἄνθρωπος ánthrōpos, anth'-ro-pos; from G435 and ὤψ ṓps (the countenance; from G3700); man-faced, i.e. a human being:—certain, man.

Revelation 13:18KJV
18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

Hello! You are adding to Scripture. It says man - as in mankind! Why can you not see that? Why do you avoid the detail of each posters posts? You have to. It exposes your error. The word for man here (“anthropos”) is the generic word for mankind, which includes men and women. Six is actually the number of man; it is the number of the flesh. 666 is therefore the number of mankind, not a individual man. 666 in some way illustrates the absolute hopelessness of those that have crossed over the line of reprobation. All those that have been reprobated have finally been given up to their own lusts, whereas those that are “in Christ Jesus … walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.” (Romans 8:1). It is they that refuse the mark of the beast and have their names “written in the book of life from the foundation of the world” (Revelation 17:8).

 

[WPM]

Are you claiming the Greek scholar Strong below is wrong and your right?

Read Strongs Again and Again, "A Human Being" "Individual Male"

Denial of a future literal human man as seen and presented, is 1,000X more dangerous for the unaware, than Teaching of a Pre-Trib Rapture or Millennial Kingdom

Your belief and teaching is "Scary" in future deception to the unaware, in concealing the future identity of the Little Horn, Man Of Sin, The Beast "Dangerous"

(Let No Man Deceive You By Any Means)

Strongs (Of A Man) Revelation 13:18

Strong’s Definitions
ἀνήρ anḗr, an'-ayr; a primary word (compare G444); a man (properly as an individual male):—fellow, husband, man, sir.

Strong’s Definitions
ἄνθρωπος ánthrōpos, anth'-ro-pos; from G435 and ὤψ ṓps (the countenance; from G3700); man-faced, i.e. a human being:—certain, man.

Revelation 13:18KJV
18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

You are the one insisting that "he" and "him" proves that the beast is a literal man. But when we present the detail attributed to this man you symbolize it away. How convient! What then do these 7 heads and 10 Horns represent?

 

[Truth7t7]

Hello! You are adding to Scripture. It says man - as in mankind! Why can you not see that? Why do you avoid the detail of each posters posts? You have to. It exposes your error. The word for man here (“anthropos”) is the generic word for mankind, which includes men and women. Six is actually the number of man; it is the number of the flesh. 666 is therefore the number of mankind, not a individual man. 666 in some way illustrates the absolute hopelessness of those that have crossed over the line of reprobation. All those that have been reprobated have finally been given up to their own lusts, whereas those that are “in Christ Jesus … walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.” (Romans 8:1). It is they that refuse the mark of the beast and have their names “written in the book of life from the foundation of the world” (Revelation 17:8).

Strongs a respected Greek Scholar tells me (A Man) is an individual male, a human being

I don't follow your self guided Greek Scholarship, your a cop by trade not a Greek Scholar, your trying to validate your belief in error, Sad part is, you continue to teach your reformed preterist error

Strongs (Of A Man) Revelation 13:18

Strong’s Definitions
ἀνήρ anḗr, an'-ayr; a primary word (compare G444); a man (properly as an individual male):—fellow, husband, man, sir.

Strong’s Definitions
ἄνθρωπος ánthrōpos, anth'-ro-pos; from G435 and ὤψ ṓps (the countenance; from G3700); man-faced, i.e. a human being:—certain, man.

Revelation 13:18KJV
18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his

 

[WPM]

X

Exactly. You have nothing to say. That sums up your position. It is devoid of substance.

 

[WPM]

Are you claiming the Greek scholar Strong below is wrong and your right?

Read Strongs Again and Again, "A Human Being" "Individual Male"

Denial of a future literal human man as seen and presented, is 1,000X more dangerous for the unaware, than Teaching of a Pre-Trib Rapture or Millennial Kingdom

Most Bible scholars of whatever persuasion identify “the beast” with “antichrist” and the “mystery of iniquity”. They believe that they all refer to the same entity. Other titles include, “that man of sin,” “the son of perdition,” and “that Wicked” one.

The reason why many good Bible scholars have held that the “man of sin” is not a lone human being is because he has been alive and kicking for a lot longer than the lifetime of any human. In fact, the beast/antichrist/the mystery of iniquity/the son of perdition/that Wicked one has been about for 2,000 years+.

The Beast

Revelation 17:8 states, “The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.”

This passage strongly shows that the beast existed prior to the day of John, stating, “the beast that was.” Notwithstanding, the terminology that follows appears slightly contradictory – “is not, and yet is.” One could be tempted to reason: it either is or else it isn’t, notwithstanding, this reading plainly says that it both “is” and “is not.” The import of the reading appears to demonstrate that the beast did exist in John’s day, and in fact, before John’s day, but that it had not fully developed into what it would eventually become. There is a saying in Northern Ireland that appears to explain this reading – ‘He is a big fellow, but a wee jacket fits him’ i.e. ‘he is not as big as he thinks he is’. This appears to be the meaning.

Revelation 17:11-13 further enlarges, “the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition. And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast. These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.”

A plain reading of these passages proves that, whatever the beast truly represents, he/it was expressly in existence before the time that John received this symbolic revelation. The beast cannot therefore merely be a last few years end-time phenomenon, as some would have us believe. After all, he existed before John wrote Revelation. We learn through the apostle’s first century testimony that the beast expressly “was” (past tense). In fact, the passage mentions this fact three times (twice in verse 8, and once in verse 11). Therefore, he existed before John. He also existed at the time of John – who said of his day, the beast “is” (present tense). John then explained that the beast would continue after his day, saying it “shall” be (future tense). In fact, Scripture tells us that the beast, and the false prophet, will only finally be destroyed at the all-consummating second coming of the Lord, where they will be “cast alive into the lake of fire burning with brimstone” (Revelation 19:20). Why would this world system be destroyed at Christ’s coming and then re-emerge in a future millennium as the sand of the sea?

Having said all this, the terminology that follows is strange and appears contradictory, saying, “is not, and yet is.” One could naturally be tempted to reason: the beast either is or else it isn’t, although, this reading plainly says that the beast both “is” and “is not” at the same time. Whilst the import of the reading indicates that the beast existed in John’s day, it would seem to suggest that it did so in a restrained or restricted manner. How else can we marry the two facts that the beast “is” and “is not” at the same time. The system represented by the beast must have been around in John’s day, albeit in a curtailed manner – a bit like a prisoner that has full movement within a prison, although, he is restricted to particular areas at given times and must continually abide by the careful rules and guidelines that govern his movements within the penitentiary. He has freedom – to a degree, but in another hand he is not free to do as he wishes. The bottom line is: the prisoner would be viewed by every sane observer as bound.

The beast “was” because Satan and his kingdom operated long before Christ ever invaded his territory at the first Advent. He is deemed “is not” because, through Christ's successful completion of His Father’s assignment on earth He roundly defeated Satan in his own backyard and spiritually spoiled his goods and influence. Christ instigated the great triumphant global advance upon the kingdom of darkness. This has inflicted great injury and damage upon the antichrist spirit for near 2,000 years. Christ went forth conquering and to conquer through the successful spread of the Gospel to the nations. The fact is the gates of hell can never prevail against the Church of Jesus Christ.

The beast “is not” because Satan no longer exercises complete unchallenged control over the nations as he once did before the cross. Revelation 13:1-4 shows that at some stage in history one of the beast’s heads were “wounded” thus incapacitating this evil ogre. This can only refer to the cross and Christ’s great victory over the kingdom of darkness. This transaction placed chains upon the rebellious principalities and powers which remain until Satan’s little season.

The beast “is” (at the time of John's writing) because even though Christ spiritual bound him at the cross, he was allowed to continue to operate for a prescribed period, albeit under very definite limits which God has divinely set. These cannot be penetrated.

 

[WPM]

Are you claiming the Greek scholar Strong below is wrong and your right?

Read Strongs Again and Again, "A Human Being" "Individual Male"

Denial of a future literal human man as seen and presented, is 1,000X more dangerous for the unaware, than Teaching of a Pre-Trib Rapture or Millennial Kingdom

Your belief and teaching is "Scary" in future deception to the unaware, in concealing the future identity of the Little Horn, Man Of Sin, The Beast "Dangerous"

(Let No Man Deceive You By Any Means)

Strongs (Of A Man) Revelation 13:18

Strong’s Definitions
ἀνήρ anḗr, an'-ayr; a primary word (compare G444); a man (properly as an individual male):—fellow, husband, man, sir.

Strong’s Definitions
ἄνθρωπος ánthrōpos, anth'-ro-pos; from G435 and ὤψ ṓps (the countenance; from G3700); man-faced, i.e. a human being:—certain, man.

Revelation 13:18KJV
18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

That spirit of antichrist

1 John 2:18-23: “Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time. They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us. But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things. I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth. Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.”

This passage supports the idea that antichrist has existed throughout the intra-Advent period. John describes that time as the last days.

1 John 4:1-3, 5-6: “Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world … They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them. We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.”

Here is more proof that antichrist existed back in Bible times. This fits with what Revelation says of the beast. John testifies: “even now already is it in the world.” Antichrist cannot obviously be some wicked leader that is raised up to reign in the last 7 years, last 3 ½ years or last few years before the Lord's return. He must be an influence or agency that has been working in the hearts of evil men for many centuries. Evidently, no wicked human has survived since John's day!

2 John 1:7: “For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.”

Antichrist is clearly not limited to one man at the end as Futurists argue. Antichrist covers the full gamut of those belonging to the devil.

The mystery of iniquity (or lawlessness)

Paul explains in 2 Thessalonians 2:7-12 of his day, “For the mystery of iniquity [Gr. lawlessness] doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.”

The first thing we here is that “the mystery of iniquity” was alive and kicking 2000 years ago. Paul confirms what Revelation 17:8 and Revelation 17:11-13 is expressing that this entity was functioning in his day. This baleful influence is not some has evidently been around for a long time. Saying all this, he is depicted as being restrained in this New Testament age up until the end when the restraint will be taken off him. This is clearly talking about his ongoing existence throughout the new covenant era albeit in a curtailed manner. This must confirm the restrained consequences that enveloped the whole kingdom of darkness as a result of the earthly ministry of Christ.

 

[Truth7t7]

That spirit of antichrist

1 John 2:18-23: “Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time. They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us. But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things. I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth. Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.”

This passage supports the idea that antichrist has existed throughout the intra-Advent period. John describes that time as the last days.

1 John 4:1-3, 5-6: “Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world … They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them. We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.”

Here is more proof that antichrist existed back in Bible times. This fits with what Revelation says of the beast. John testifies: “even now already is it in the world.” Antichrist cannot obviously be some wicked leader that is raised up to reign in the last 7 years, last 3 ½ years or last few years before the Lord's return. He must be an influence or agency that has been working in the hearts of evil men for many centuries. Evidently, no wicked human has survived since John's day!

2 John 1:7: “For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.”

Antichrist is clearly not limited to one man at the end as Futurists argue. Antichrist covers the full gamut of those belonging to the devil.

The mystery of iniquity (or lawlessness)

Paul explains in 2 Thessalonians 2:7-12 of his day, “For the mystery of iniquity [Gr. lawlessness] doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.”

The first thing we here is that “the mystery of iniquity” was alive and kicking 2000 years ago. Paul confirms what Revelation 17:8 and Revelation 17:11-13 is expressing that this entity was functioning in his day. This baleful influence is not some has evidently been around for a long time. Saying all this, he is depicted as being restrained in this New Testament age up until the end when the restraint will be taken off him. This is clearly talking about his ongoing existence throughout the new covenant era albeit in a curtailed manner. This must confirm the restrained consequences that enveloped the whole kingdom of darkness as a result of the earthly ministry of Christ.

Read The Greek Scholar Strongs Again and Again, "A Human Being" "Individual Male"

Denial of a future literal human man as seen and presented, is 1,000X more dangerous for the unaware, than Teaching of a Pre-Trib Rapture or Millennial Kingdom

Your belief and teaching is "Scary" in future deception to the unaware, in concealing the future identity of the Little Horn, Man Of Sin, The Beast "Dangerous"

(Let No Man Deceive You By Any Means)

Strongs (Of A Man) Revelation 13:18

Strong’s Definitions
ἀνήρ anḗr, an'-ayr; a primary word (compare G444); a man (properly as an individual male):—fellow, husband, man, sir.

Strong’s Definitions
ἄνθρωπος ánthrōpos, anth'-ro-pos; from G435 and ὤψ ṓps (the countenance; from G3700); man-faced, i.e. a human being:—certain, man.

Revelation 13:18KJV
18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

 

[Truth7t7]

That spirit of antichrist

1 John 2:18-23: “Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time. They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us. But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things. I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth. Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.”

This passage supports the idea that antichrist has existed throughout the intra-Advent period. John describes that time as the last days.

1 John 4:1-3, 5-6: “Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world … They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them. We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.”

Here is more proof that antichrist existed back in Bible times. This fits with what Revelation says of the beast. John testifies: “even now already is it in the world.” Antichrist cannot obviously be some wicked leader that is raised up to reign in the last 7 years, last 3 ½ years or last few years before the Lord's return. He must be an influence or agency that has been working in the hearts of evil men for many centuries. Evidently, no wicked human has survived since John's day!

2 John 1:7: “For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.”

Antichrist is clearly not limited to one man at the end as Futurists argue. Antichrist covers the full gamut of those belonging to the devil.

The mystery of iniquity (or lawlessness)

Paul explains in 2 Thessalonians 2:7-12 of his day, “For the mystery of iniquity [Gr. lawlessness] doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.”

The first thing we here is that “the mystery of iniquity” was alive and kicking 2000 years ago. Paul confirms what Revelation 17:8 and Revelation 17:11-13 is expressing that this entity was functioning in his day. This baleful influence is not some has evidently been around for a long time. Saying all this, he is depicted as being restrained in this New Testament age up until the end when the restraint will be taken off him. This is clearly talking about his ongoing existence throughout the new covenant era albeit in a curtailed manner. This must confirm the restrained consequences that enveloped the whole kingdom of darkness as a result of the earthly ministry of Christ.

That surely isn't a "Spirit" below, as you in error cling to your reformed preterist eschatology "Sad"!

Daniel's (Little Horn), Paul's (Man Of Sin), And John's (The Beast) A Literal Human Man,, That Will Be Present On This Earth At The Second Coming Of Jesus Christ

The figure mentioned above will be a "Future" literal human man, and he will be present on earth in a living human body to witness the "Future" second coming and final judgment as scripture clearly teaches below

Daniel's (Little Horn) Present On Earth At The Second Coming

Daniel 7:8-11KJV
8 I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.
9 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.
10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.
11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.

Paul's (Man Of Sin) Present On Earth At The Second Coming

2 Thessalonians 2:3-8KJV
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

John's (The Beast) Present On Earth At The Second Coming

Revelation 19:19-20KJV
19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

 

[WPM]

Read The Greek Scholar Strongs Again and Again, "A Human Being" "Individual Male"

Denial of a future literal human man as seen and presented, is 1,000X more dangerous for the unaware, than Teaching of a Pre-Trib Rapture or Millennial Kingdom

Your belief and teaching is "Scary" in future deception to the unaware, in concealing the future identity of the Little Horn, Man Of Sin, The Beast "Dangerous"

(Let No Man Deceive You By Any Means)

Strongs (Of A Man) Revelation 13:18

Strong’s Definitions
ἀνήρ anḗr, an'-ayr; a primary word (compare G444); a man (properly as an individual male):—fellow, husband, man, sir.

Strong’s Definitions
ἄνθρωπος ánthrōpos, anth'-ro-pos; from G435 and ὤψ ṓps (the countenance; from G3700); man-faced, i.e. a human being:—certain, man.

Revelation 13:18KJV
18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

You are so besotted with antichrist that you cannot see Christ in the Word of God.

You are arguing with the text. There is no "a" man there. It is simply says “man.” You are adding unto Scripture.

Thayer Definition:

anthrōpos

1) a human being, whether male or female
1a) generically, to include all human individuals

1b) to distinguish man from beings of a different order
1b1) of animals and plants
1b2) of from God and Christ
1b3) of the angels

 

[WPM]

That surely isn't a "Spirit" below, as you in error cling to your reformed preterist eschatology "Sad"!

Daniel's (Little Horn), Paul's (Man Of Sin), And John's (The Beast) A Literal Human Man,, That Will Be Present On This Earth At The Second Coming Of Jesus Christ

The figure mentioned above will be a "Future" literal human man, and he will be present on earth in a living human body to witness the "Future" second coming and final judgment as scripture clearly teaches below

Daniel's (Little Horn) Present On Earth At The Second Coming

Daniel 7:8-11KJV
8 I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.
9 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.
10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.
11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.

Paul's (Man Of Sin) Present On Earth At The Second Coming

2 Thessalonians 2:3-8KJV
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

John's (The Beast) Present On Earth At The Second Coming

Revelation 19:19-20KJV
19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

The beast/antichrist/man of sin have been about since before John or Paul. This totally blows apart your whole thesis.

 

[Truth7t7]

You are so besotted with antichrist that you cannot see Christ in the Word of God.

You are arguing with the text. There is no "a" man there. It is simply says “man.” You are adding unto Scripture.

Thayer Definition:

anthrōpos

1) a human being, whether male or female
1a) generically, to include all human individuals

1b) to distinguish man from beings of a different order
1b1) of animals and plants
1b2) of from God and Christ
1b3) of the angels

The Greeks Scholar Below Disagrees With You

Read The Greek Scholar Strongs Again and Again, "A Human Being" "Individual Male"

Denial of a future literal human man as seen and presented, is 1,000X more dangerous for the unaware, than Teaching of a Pre-Trib Rapture or Millennial Kingdom

Your belief and teaching is "Scary" in future deception to the unaware, in concealing the future identity of the Little Horn, Man Of Sin, The Beast "Dangerous"

(Let No Man Deceive You By Any Means)

Strongs (Of A Man) Revelation 13:18

Strong’s Definitions
ἀνήρ anḗr, an'-ayr; a primary word (compare G444); a man (properly as an individual male):—fellow, husband, man, sir.

Strong’s Definitions
ἄνθρωπος ánthrōpos, anth'-ro-pos; from G435 and ὤψ ṓps (the countenance; from G3700); man-faced, i.e. a human being:—certain, man.

Revelation 13:18KJV
18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

 

[WPM]

The Greeks Scholar Below Disagrees With You

Read The Greek Scholar Strongs Again and Again, "A Human Being" "Individual Male"

Denial of a future literal human man as seen and presented, is 1,000X more dangerous for the unaware, than Teaching of a Pre-Trib Rapture or Millennial Kingdom

Your belief and teaching is "Scary" in future deception to the unaware, in concealing the future identity of the Little Horn, Man Of Sin, The Beast "Dangerous"

(Let No Man Deceive You By Any Means)

Strongs (Of A Man) Revelation 13:18

Strong’s Definitions
ἀνήρ anḗr, an'-ayr; a primary word (compare G444); a man (properly as an individual male):—fellow, husband, man, sir.

Strong’s Definitions
ἄνθρωπος ánthrōpos, anth'-ro-pos; from G435 and ὤψ ṓps (the countenance; from G3700); man-faced, i.e. a human being:—certain, man.

Revelation 13:18KJV
18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

Robo response. You have to because your beliefs have been ably and repeatedly exposed. It is pointless engaging with you any more as you refuse to address the rebuttals. That is why few are engaging any more with you. I am going to do the same, as it is pointless. Your cut-and-pasting the same thing over and over again is boring. It is a testimony that you have nothing. Argue with yourself.

 

[RLT63]

None of this makes sense. Pretribs do not come close to answering in any kind of credible, coherent, reasonable or convincing way how there is a rapture of the Church followed by a prolonged tribulation followed by a 3rd coming of Christ. And, yes, most don't even try because they know it is not in the Book! There is no explicit or vague Scripture that teaches this.

Daniel 9:20-27
1 Thessalonians 4:13-18
1 Thessalonians 5:9
Revelation 3:10

The rapture of the church is the event in which God “snatches away” all believers from the earth in order to make way for His righteous judgment to be poured out on the earth during the tribulation period. The rapture is described primarily in 1 Thessalonians 4:13–18 and 1 Corinthians 15:50–54. God will resurrect all believers who have died, give them glorified bodies, and take them from the earth, along with all living believers, who will also be given glorified bodies at that time. “For the Lord Himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever” (1 Thessalonians 4:16–17).

The rapture will involve an instantaneous transformation of our bodies to fit us for eternity. “We know that when he [Christ] appears, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is” (1 John 3:2). The rapture is to be distinguished from the second coming. At the rapture, the Lord comes “in the clouds” to meet us “in the air” (1 Thessalonians 4:17). At the second coming, the Lord descends all the way to the earth to stand on the Mount of Olives, resulting in a great earthquake followed by a defeat of God’s enemies (Zechariah 14:3–4).

 

[WPM]

Daniel 9:20-27
1 Thessalonians 4:13-18
1 Thessalonians 5:9
Revelation 3:10

The rapture of the church is the event in which God “snatches away” all believers from the earth in order to make way for His righteous judgment to be poured out on the earth during the tribulation period. The rapture is described primarily in 1 Thessalonians 4:13–18 and 1 Corinthians 15:50–54. God will resurrect all believers who have died, give them glorified bodies, and take them from the earth, along with all living believers, who will also be given glorified bodies at that time. “For the Lord Himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever” (1 Thessalonians 4:16–17).

The rapture will involve an instantaneous transformation of our bodies to fit us for eternity. “We know that when he [Christ] appears, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is” (1 John 3:2). The rapture is to be distinguished from the second coming. At the rapture, the Lord comes “in the clouds” to meet us “in the air” (1 Thessalonians 4:17). At the second coming, the Lord descends all the way to the earth to stand on the Mount of Olives, resulting in a great earthquake followed by a defeat of God’s enemies (Zechariah 14:3–4).

OK then, will you quote these passages in full and identify where the rapture of the Church is in each of these, followed by the seven-year tribulation, followed by your third coming? I don't see it.

Every single passage that you quote can be used by posttribbers. So, you're going to have to identify your beliefs in here.

 

[RLT63]

OK then, will you quote these passages in full and identify where the rapture of the Church is in each of these, followed by the seven-year tribulation, followed by your third coming? I don't see it.

Every single passage that you quote can be used by posttribbers. So, you're going to have to identify your beliefs in here.

It's called the 2nd coming, not the third. The rapture is not the 2nd coming. And no matter what I post you are not going to accept it. First you have to understand Daniel's 70th week has not happened yet.
Gabriel’s Zinger
Daniel, originally deported as a teenager (now near the end of the Babylonian captivity), was reading in the Book of Jeremiah. He understood that the seventy years of servitude were almost over and he began to pray for his people.

The Angel Gabriel interrupted Daniel’s prayer and gave him a four-verse prophecy that is unquestionably the most remarkable passage in the entire Bible: Daniel 9:24–27.

These four verses include the following segments:

• 9:24 – The Scope of the Entire Prophecy;
• 9:25 – The 69 Weeks;
• 9:26 – An Interval between the 69th and 70th Week;
• 9:27 – The 70th Week.

The Scope (Dan 9:24)
Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy Place .

— Daniel 9:24

The idiom of a “week” of years was common in Israel as a “sabbath for the land,” in which the land was to lie fallow every seventh year.[2] It was their failure to obey these laws that led to God sending them into captivity under the Babylonians.[3]

Note that the focus of this passage is upon “thy people and upon thy holy city,” that is, upon Israel and Jerusalem. (It is not directed to the Church.)

The scope of this prophecy includes a broad list of things which clearly have yet to be completed.

The First 69 Weeks (Dan 9:25)
A very specific prediction occurs in verse 25:

Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

— Daniel 9:25

This includes a mathematical prophecy. As we have noted in previous articles, the Jewish (and Babylonian) calendars used a 360-day year;[4] 69 weeks of 360-day years totals 173,880 days. In effect, Gabriel told Daniel that the interval between the commandment to rebuild Jerusalem until the presentation of the Messiah as King would be 173,880 days.

The “Messiah the Prince” in the King James translation is actually the Meshiach Nagid, “The Messiah the King.” (Nagid is first used of King Saul.)

Bull’s-Eye!
The commandment to restore and build Jerusalem was given by Artaxerxes Longimanus on March 14, 445 B.C.[5] (The emphasis in the verse on “the street” and “the wall” was to avoid confusion with other earlier mandates confined to rebuilding the Temple.)

During the ministry of Jesus Christ there were several occasions in which the people attempted to promote Him as king, but He carefully avoided it: “Mine hour is not yet come”.[6]

The Triumphal Entry
Then, one day, He meticulously arranges it.[7] On this particular day he rode into the city of Jerusalem riding on a donkey, deliberately fulfilling a prophecy by Zechariah that the Messiah would present Himself as king in just that way:

Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, thy King cometh unto thee: he is just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an ass, and upon a colt the foal of an ass.

— Zechariah 9:9

Whenever we might easily miss the significance of what was going on, the Pharisees come to our rescue. They felt that the overzealous crowd was blaspheming, proclaiming Jesus as the Messiah the King.[8] However, Jesus endorsed it!

I tell you that, if these should hold their peace, the stones would immediately cry out.

— Luke 19:40

This is the only occasion that Jesus presented Himself as King. It occurred on April 6, 32 A.D.[9]

The Precision of Prophecy
When we examine the period between March 14, 445 B.C. and April 6, 32 A.D., and correct for leap years, we discover that it is 173,880 days exactly, to the very day!

How could Daniel have known this in advance? How could anyone have contrived to have this detailed prediction documented over three centuries in advance? But there’s more.

The Interval (Dan 9:26)
There appears to be a gap between the 69th week (verse 25) and the 70th week (verse 27):

And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

— Daniel 9:26

The sixty-two “weeks” follow the initial seven, so verse 26 deals with events after 69th week, but before the 70th. These events include the Messiah being killed and the city and sanctuary being destroyed.

As Jesus approached the city on the donkey, He also predicted the destruction of Jerusalem:

For the days shall come upon thee, that thine enemies shall cast a trench about thee, and compass thee round, and keep thee in on every side, And shall lay thee even with the ground, and thy children within thee; and they shall not leave in thee one stone upon another; because thou knewest not the time of thy visitation.

— Luke 19:43–44

The Messiah was, of course, executed at the Crucifixion…”but not for Himself.”

The city and the sanctuary were destroyed 38 years later when the Roman legions under Titus Vespasian leveled the city of Jerusalem in A.D. 70, precisely as Daniel and Jesus had predicted. In fact, as one carefully examines Jesus’ specific words, it appears that He held them accountable to know this astonishing prophecy in Daniel 9! “Because thou knewest not the time of thy visitation.”

The 70th Week
There is a remaining seven-year period to be fulfilled. This period is the most documented period in the entire Bible. The Book of Revelation, Chapters 6 through 19, is essentially a detailing of that climactic period.
Daniel’s 70 Weeks: The Precision of Prophecy – Chuck Missler – Koinonia House