22 major reasons to abandon the Premil doctrine

[Eternally Grateful]

In post #527 she tells you she believes Jesus will be on this earth during a millennium, then a battle will take place?

This is the standard teaching within Millennialism and Dispensationalism

its just biblical truth my friend.

rev 20:
7 Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea. 9 They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them. 10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Then you didn't read my statement fully. I said that I disagree with Dispensationalism in its emphasis on a return to temple imagery. This is symbolic of Christ's work, which indeed is finished.

Mind if I ask what you mean by this? Are you talking about the small group who bel.ieves Israel returns to law as a means of salvation? I disagree with this also

Don't know why you're harping against Dispensationalism? I'm *not* a Dispensationalist, and not all Premills are Dispies.

Interesting. what would you consider yourself? Never heard this before. just curious

Christ is coming back to a flawed world, just as he did the 1st time. He did not see it as hopelessly carnal, as you seem to think Premills see it. He saw it as salvageable. And I see it as salvageable in the Millennium, just as it is today.

The only difference is that prophecy will be fulfilled, and Satan will be bound so that it can happen.

He comes at a time when all flesh would be killed if he did not come. I agree. He saves the world and returns it to a peaceful world. And shows how it should have been, with him in charge

 

[Eternally Grateful]

No, I'm talking about a precedent for belief that a Millennium has a basis in Scripture.

Whoever said that? What Premill has ever said that Christ comes back to reward men for their rebellion and leads them to a glorified new earth?

wow. I would like to know who said this also.. Never heard this from anyone pre or A mill

 

[Eternally Grateful]

People are born. People are born in your version of the Millennium. Life goes on does it not?

Scripture states this is true. there will be babies.. Even though these babies are born into Christ rule. They still have to make a decision. They will still need to be saved..

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Jesus said "the kingdom of God is come unto you."

Present tense. An extant reality.

You say "It did not mean the Kingdom had actually come!"

One of you is wrong.

Is Satan bound?
Is Jesus ruling with a rod of iron?

if you believe the above are true today. You must not read the news.. Satan is still decieving the nations. And Jesus is not ruling with the rod. Nations are still against nation, kingdon is still against kingdom. the end is not yet

 

[WalkInLight]

I don’t see this as being completely accurate, although I can sort of grasp what you say in this way - a lot of premil men do not have the humility to wonder if they will be counted worthy to escape that time of testing coming on the whole world. They just assume they will need no further testing and sifting. I rather doubt some of them have even prayed to be found worthy to escape it as we are told to, since their indoctrination causes them to have a certainty that does away with humility.

I grew up with films about the anti-christ and the rapture, and it was all about do not be caught out, be part of the raptured group.
The films emphasised the horrendous society that will come.

Many churches felt when persecution came to their congregations which was like the anti-Christ this escapism doctrine had been very unhelpful. Paul preached about being tested and standing up to persecution. Jesus continually said you will be hated because of me, persecuted. Revelation says this

7 He was given power to make war against the saints and to conquer them. And he was given authority over every tribe, people, language and nation.
Rev 13:7

12 This calls for patient endurance on the part of the saints who obey God's commandments and remain faithful to Jesus.
Rev 14:12

If the church is raptured away from this persecution, why is it mentioned that the saints will be conquered?
Clearly the picture is not a simple one, and certainly not a formula as premillennialism would paint.

For me its ironic to exalt the book of revelation and add to it while not taking seriously the warnings:-

18 I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book.
19 And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.
Rev 22:18-19

So if revelation lays out future history, and you can twist it how one likes, surely these warnings should also be taken into account with equal measure. At the time I heard the ideas being put forward I realised the authors literally did not care.

God bless you

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I grew up with films about the anti-christ and the rapture, and it was all about do not be caught out, be part of the raptured group.
The films emphasised the horrendous society that will come.

Many churches felt when persecution came to their congregations which was like the anti-Christ this escapism doctrine had been very unhelpful. Paul preached about being tested and standing up to persecution. Jesus continually said you will be hated because of me, persecuted. Revelation says this

7 He was given power to make war against the saints and to conquer them. And he was given authority over every tribe, people, language and nation.
Rev 13:7

12 This calls for patient endurance on the part of the saints who obey God's commandments and remain faithful to Jesus.
Rev 14:12

If the church is raptured away from this persecution, why is it mentioned that the saints will be conquered?
Clearly the picture is not a simple one, and certainly not a formula as premillennialism would paint.

For me its ironic to exalt the book of revelation and add to it while not taking seriously the warnings:-

18 I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book.
19 And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.
Rev 22:18-19

So if revelation lays out future history, and you can twist it how one likes, surely these warnings should also be taken into account with equal measure. At the time I heard the ideas being put forward I realised the authors literally did not care.

God bless you

are you saying even if the rapture happen. there will not be people who repent and come to Christ?

using this argument is a means to discredit the premil rapture seems weak to me.. While I agree alot of the movies you saw were prety weak in themselves.

 

[WPM]

Is Satan bound? ...

if you believe the above are true today. You must not read the news.. Satan is still decieving the nations. And Jesus is not ruling with the rod. Nations are still against nation, kingdon is still against kingdom. the end is not yet

I do not think you are gasping the spiritual intent of the passage. Much of Revelation is described in similar symbolic terms.

Bound from doing what? Deceiving the Gentiles!

In the Old Testament God ruled Israel, Satan ruled the nations. The Gentiles were in darkness. Only one single Gentile village/town/city experienced salvation that we know of. The world in general was deceived, not knowing anything about the grace of God or His merciful way of salvation. The earthly ministry of Christ caused an immediate effect upon that situation producing a momentous spiritual binding or restraint of Satan’s considerable scope of influence. Since then, the devil no longer enjoyed the unchallenged universal run of the field to completely deceive all “the nations” outside of (minute) natural Israel, as he unquestionably had before it.

There was a spiritual deception over the Gentiles before the First Advent that has now been lifted. The darkness has been confronted and exposed and overcome through the Light of the truth. That light is centered in the person and message of Christ. Satan is no longer able to deceive the Gentiles in this New Testament age in the same manner and scope as he deceived them prior to Jesus binding Satan at the cross.

Scripture repeatedly identifies the Messianic intra-Advent period as the time of the enlightenment of the Gentiles. This does not in any way insinuate that all will be saved. Not in any way. With the global expanse of the great commission the Gentiles are now without excuse. The ignorance is gone. The veil is lifted.

When Scripture speak about the enlightenment of the Gentiles and the removal of the deception it doesn’t mean that every Gentile will be saved, but that the Gospel message and opportunity would be extended to them as a whole – just like Israel experienced it in the Old Testament.

Zacharias the father of John the Baptist was filled with the Holy Ghost in Luke 1:67-80 and prophesied: “Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people, And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David; As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began: That we should be saved from our enemies, and from the hand of all that hate us; To perform the mercy promised to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant; The oath which he sware to our father Abraham, That he would grant unto us, that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies might serve him without fear, In holiness and righteousness before him, all the days of our life … Through the tender mercy of our God; whereby the dayspring from on high hath visited us, To give light to them that sit in darkness and in the shadow of death, to guide our feet into the way of peace. And the child grew, and waxed strong in spirit, and was in the deserts till the day of his shewing unto Israel.”

Jesus came to shine a light of truth into the world. The reality is: He was truth because He was God. He epitomized all that was truth. In John 14:7 He said, “I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.” In Revelation 22:6 He is described as: “faithful and true.”

Jesus said in John 8:12 “I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life."

Jesus said in John 12:46: "I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness.”

He shined the light and it dispelled the darkness. In fact, wherever this light shines it removes ignorance and deception and enlightens and sets men free. No one could surely deny that this light has been shining strong upon the Gentiles for 2,000 year. The evidence is there for all to see.

Through the indwelling Holy Spirit (who reveals Christ in us), and the preaching of the Word of God, The Church now manifest that light throughout the nations. God has availed the Gentiles an opportunity to embrace the light. They are no longer without excuse. It is not therefore a question of whether the light came, or that it exists, but will the Gentiles receive it and believe it.

Ephesians 5:8: “For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light.”

Just because most don't receive doesn't mean the blindfold of ignorance has not been removed with the global preaching of the Gospel. Just because you and I are enlightened doesn't mean sin doesn't exist within us. Your reasoning therefore doesn't add up.

The Gentiles who “sat in darkness” have now “saw great light” (Matthew 4:15) since and through the earthly ministry of Christ and His glorious life, death and resurrection. Light has been revealed to a people that were once hopelessly deceived. They can now no longer claim ignorance. If Gentiles want salvation it is there for them. The veil of deception has been decisively lifted off the heathen. Satan can no longer prevent the Gospel light going out to the nations. The Gentiles have therefore no excuse. They who were once “without God in the world” before the cross can now be “made nigh by the blood of Christ” (Eph 2:11-12). The cross has made the difference for the nations. It was the turning point for the heathen nations. They have now seen the light. What they do with that light is, of course, up to them. But God has opened a way of access to all nations without favour. They are no longer deceived as to the way.

It is basically saying: the Gentiles are without excuse since the cross. Like Israel throughout the Old Testament they have been availed an incredible opportunity to enter into the covenant with the Lord on the same basis as any Jew.

The Gentiles who “sat in darkness” have now “saw great light” (Matthew 4:15) since and through the earthly ministry of Christ and His glorious life, death and resurrection. Light has been revealed to a people that were once hopelessly deceived. They can now no longer claim ignorance. If Gentiles want salvation it is there for them. The veil of deception has been decisively lifted off the heathen. Satan can no longer prevent the Gospel light going out to the nations. The Gentiles have therefore no excuse. They who were once “without God in the world” before the cross can now be “made nigh by the blood of Christ” (Eph 2:11-12). The cross has made the difference for the nations. It was the turning point for the heathen nations. They have now seen the light. What they do with that light is, of course, up to them. But God has opened a way of access to all nations without favour. They are no longer deceived as to the way.

 

[WPM]

I grew up with films about the anti-christ and the rapture, and it was all about do not be caught out, be part of the raptured group.
The films emphasised the horrendous society that will come.

Many churches felt when persecution came to their congregations which was like the anti-Christ this escapism doctrine had been very unhelpful. Paul preached about being tested and standing up to persecution. Jesus continually said you will be hated because of me, persecuted. Revelation says this

7 He was given power to make war against the saints and to conquer them. And he was given authority over every tribe, people, language and nation.
Rev 13:7

12 This calls for patient endurance on the part of the saints who obey God's commandments and remain faithful to Jesus.
Rev 14:12

If the church is raptured away from this persecution, why is it mentioned that the saints will be conquered?
Clearly the picture is not a simple one, and certainly not a formula as premillennialism would paint.

For me its ironic to exalt the book of revelation and add to it while not taking seriously the warnings:-

18 I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book.
19 And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.
Rev 22:18-19

So if revelation lays out future history, and you can twist it how one likes, surely these warnings should also be taken into account with equal measure. At the time I heard the ideas being put forward I realised the authors literally did not care.

God bless you

Me too!

 

[stunnedbygrace]

If the church is raptured away from this persecution, why is it mentioned that the saints will be conquered?

Because some will believe during the tribulation and will become martyrs. They will believe either because of hearing the 2 witnesses, or because of what they’d heard before the tribulation but never considered or only believed with their head but not their heart. But they will make their robes white.

I could similarly ask you, if we are to all go through the tribulation, why are we told to pray we are found worthy to escape it? I guess your answer could be, we are to pray we are found worthy to escape physical death during it and pray we aren’t martyred for our trust. I don’t think that would be a good answer, as we would be praying against the prophecy that the saints will be overcome. A better answer that would not weaken your assertion would be, well, it means we are to pray we won’t fail in our trust out of fear and will stand firm about not taking the mark, thereby making us be found worthy to escape the condemnation of all who take the mark.

But the tone of your op was not overly respectful by any means. You are speaking with some men who have differing understandings of what they’ve read. It’s true that a lot of them are just parroting the systematic eschatology another man taught them (you’ll know them by their fruit, which is very apparent by the manner in which they speak to one another and if you see fruit of the flesh or fruit of the Spirit, including gentleness and patience). While those men exist, there are also some men who have searched out the matter and come to different thoughts based on what they found rather than on what men taught them. They deserve respect, and especially they deserve it if they show respect, even if they have a different understanding on it than us.

I do not like to see the lack of humility that some men display in just assuming they will be found worthy to escape it. If that were the case, that every single believer will be found pure enough in trust at the time, there would be no reason for us to be told to pray we are found worthy.

Whatever a mans endtimes beliefs, look for fruit. That’s how we are to know them, not by their current understanding of things being different than our current understanding of things.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I do not think you are gasping the spiritual intent of the passage. Much of Revelation is described in similar symbolic terms.

Bound from doing what? Deceiving the Gentiles!

In the Old Testament God ruled Israel, Satan ruled the nations. The Gentiles were in darkness. Only one single Gentile village/town/city experienced salvation that we know of. The world in general was deceived, not knowing anything about the grace of God or His merciful way of salvation. The earthly ministry of Christ caused an immediate effect upon that situation producing a momentous spiritual binding or restraint of Satan’s considerable scope of influence. Since then, the devil no longer enjoyed the unchallenged universal run of the field to completely deceive all “the nations” outside of (minute) natural Israel, as he unquestionably had before it.

I absolutely can see what you say here. I can see the spirit of it. Of course, you know by now I think there is always a literal fulfillment of prophecy on earth also. But by far, for us, the more important matter, and joy, is the cross, by which we die to live free of satans control of us through our flesh so that the new life seeded in us can break forth.

A verse came to mind when I read your post, the one about when the restrainer is taken out of the way…my translation says it this way: For this lawlessness is already at work secretly, and it will remain secret until the one who is holding it back steps out of the way.

 

[WalkInLight]

are you saying even if the rapture happen. there will not be people who repent and come to Christ?

using this argument is a means to discredit the premil rapture seems weak to me.. While I agree alot of the movies you saw were prety weak in themselves.

17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.
1 Thess 4:17

30 It will be just like this on the day the Son of Man is revealed.
35 Two women will be grinding grain together; one will be taken and the other left
Luke 17:35

The taking of people, ie rapture happens when Jesus is revealed.
This does not fit to pre-AntiChrist rapture ideas.

Most of the language I hear about the anti-Christ is always a group out there, the Pope, a ruler people do not like etc.
The idea yes enemies of Christ are dangerous, so be careful, but that is where I leave it.

God bless you

 

[stunnedbygrace]

17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.
1 Thess 4:17

30 It will be just like this on the day the Son of Man is revealed.
35 Two women will be grinding grain together; one will be taken and the other left
Luke 17:35

The taking of people, ie rapture happens when Jesus is revealed.
This does not fit to pre-AntiChrist rapture ideas.

Most of the language I hear about the anti-Christ is always a group out there, the Pope, a ruler people do not like etc.
The idea yes enemies of Christ are dangerous, so be careful, but that is where I leave it.

God bless you

Your post reminded me of two verses that never seem to completely leave me and Ive wondered about them a lot, and if they might be actual prophecy that comes into play.
The first one is to one of the churches and says, satan will throw you into prison for ten days.
The other says, that time will be cut short.

I know some may scoff but I’ve wondered if those who are found worthy to escape that time of testing coming on the whole world to test its people might suffer through ten very awful days first.
And I’ve wondered about what that time being cut short might actually mean. We see it as seven years but might that time of seven years be cut short?

Anyway, just some of my odd thoughts and wonderings. I certainly wouldn’t argue about it as if I know. Just some of those random thoughts, you know?

I really do need to go back and read all the posts I missed in here yesterday when conversation was flying so fast!

 

[stunnedbygrace]

For me its ironic to exalt the book of revelation and add to it while not taking seriously the warnings:-

18 I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book.
19 And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.
Rev 22:18-19

I don’t see that taking prophecy, (which is scattered all throughout the Bible), and trying to fit it all together in your understanding, is adding to the book. I think it’s just trying to fit together the older prophecies and the newer prophecies and thereby get more details.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

The taking of people, ie rapture happens when Jesus is revealed.
This does not fit to pre-AntiChrist rapture ideas.

Im taking a guess that you lean more towards a midtrib gathering together? It’s just a guess. Don’t tell anyone, but I’m often wrong.

Of all the endtimes systematic eschatologies of men, pre and mid seem most likely to me with all I’ve read of prophecy.

 

[WalkInLight]

Im taking a guess that you lean more towards a midtrib gathering together? It’s just a guess. Don’t tell anyone, but I’m often wrong.

Of all the endtimes systematic eschatologies of men, pre and mid seem most likely to me with all I’ve read of prophecy.

I am getting too old to be definitive about the future except meeting Jesus, Amen.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I am getting too old to be definitive about the future except meeting Jesus, Amen.

It’s best to not enter an endtimes thread and be adamant and definitive as if you know for sure how it all fits together, so you’re wise concerning it! It’s best to enter such a thread with a view toward possibly seeing more yourself. :)

That’s why I often answer any question put to me with the phrase “that’s my current understanding on it.”

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I do not think you are gasping the spiritual intent of the passage. Much of Revelation is described in similar symbolic terms.

Revelation is a prophetic letter. While it uses symbols. these symbols represent literal events.

Bound from doing what? Deceiving the Gentiles!

Hitler. Stalin. 2 out of many nations who have been decieved by satan himself.

and you want me to think He is bound?

In the Old Testament God ruled Israel, Satan ruled the nations. The Gentiles were in darkness. Only one single Gentile village/town/city experienced salvation that we know of. The world in general was deceived, not knowing anything about the grace of God or His merciful way of salvation. The earthly ministry of Christ caused an immediate effect upon that situation producing a momentous spiritual binding or restraint of Satan’s considerable scope of influence. Since then, the devil no longer enjoyed the unchallenged universal run of the field to completely deceive all “the nations” outside of (minute) natural Israel, as he unquestionably had before it.

There was a spiritual deception over the Gentiles before the First Advent that has now been lifted. The darkness has been confronted and exposed and overcome through the Light of the truth. That light is centered in the person and message of Christ. Satan is no longer able to deceive the Gentiles in this New Testament age in the same manner and scope as he deceived them prior to Jesus binding Satan at the cross.

Scripture repeatedly identifies the Messianic intra-Advent period as the time of the enlightenment of the Gentiles. This does not in any way insinuate that all will be saved. Not in any way. With the global expanse of the great commission the Gentiles are now without excuse. The ignorance is gone. The veil is lifted.

Gentiles were saved enmass in the OT. All people saved BEFORE Abraham birthed Isaac who birthed Jacob and thus became the nation of Israsel were saved.
Even after The nation was born. Many gentiles found God..
As for Isreal. They were decieved by satan themselves and followed after satanic Gods, its why Assyria destroyed the northern kingdom. and babylon and the nations who followed up until today have ruled over them and enslaved them.

When Scripture speak about the enlightenment of the Gentiles and the removal of the deception it doesn’t mean that every Gentile will be saved, but that the Gospel message and opportunity would be extended to them as a whole – just like Israel experienced it in the Old Testament.

I have no idea what your trying to say here. WHo said the gentiles would be enlightened in our conversation?

Zacharias the father of John the Baptist was filled with the Holy Ghost in Luke 1:67-80 and prophesied: “Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people, And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David; As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began: That we should be saved from our enemies, and from the hand of all that hate us; To perform the mercy promised to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant; The oath which he sware to our father Abraham, That he would grant unto us, that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies might serve him without fear, In holiness and righteousness before him, all the days of our life … Through the tender mercy of our God; whereby the dayspring from on high hath visited us, To give light to them that sit in darkness and in the shadow of death, to guide our feet into the way of peace. And the child grew, and waxed strong in spirit, and was in the deserts till the day of his shewing unto Israel.”

Jesus came to shine a light of truth into the world. The reality is: He was truth because He was God. He epitomized all that was truth. In John 14:7 He said, “I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.” In Revelation 22:6 He is described as: “faithful and true.”

Jesus said in John 8:12 “I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life."

Jesus said in John 12:46: "I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness.”

He shined the light and it dispelled the darkness. In fact, wherever this light shines it removes ignorance and deception and enlightens and sets men free. No one could surely deny that this light has been shining strong upon the Gentiles for 2,000 year. The evidence is there for all to see.

Through the indwelling Holy Spirit (who reveals Christ in us), and the preaching of the Word of God, The Church now manifest that light throughout the nations. God has availed the Gentiles an opportunity to embrace the light. They are no longer without excuse. It is not therefore a question of whether the light came, or that it exists, but will the Gentiles receive it and believe it.

Ephesians 5:8: “For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light.”

Just because most don't receive doesn't mean the blindfold of ignorance has not been removed with the global preaching of the Gospel. Just because you and I are enlightened doesn't mean sin doesn't exist within us. Your reasoning therefore doesn't add up.

Once again, what are you talking about?

This has nothing to do with what I said. Can you please stick to what I said and what I asked. I did not mention ANYTHING about the gospel.. so why are you talking about the gospel?

The Gentiles who “sat in darkness” have now “saw great light” (Matthew 4:15) since and through the earthly ministry of Christ and His glorious life, death and resurrection. Light has been revealed to a people that were once hopelessly deceived. They can now no longer claim ignorance. If Gentiles want salvation it is there for them. The veil of deception has been decisively lifted off the heathen. Satan can no longer prevent the Gospel light going out to the nations. The Gentiles have therefore no excuse. They who were once “without God in the world” before the cross can now be “made nigh by the blood of Christ” (Eph 2:11-12). The cross has made the difference for the nations. It was the turning point for the heathen nations. They have now seen the light. What they do with that light is, of course, up to them. But God has opened a way of access to all nations without favour. They are no longer deceived as to the way.

It is basically saying: the Gentiles are without excuse since the cross. Like Israel throughout the Old Testament they have been availed an incredible opportunity to enter into the covenant with the Lord on the same basis as any Jew.

The Gentiles who “sat in darkness” have now “saw great light” (Matthew 4:15) since and through the earthly ministry of Christ and His glorious life, death and resurrection. Light has been revealed to a people that were once hopelessly deceived. They can now no longer claim ignorance. If Gentiles want salvation it is there for them. The veil of deception has been decisively lifted off the heathen. Satan can no longer prevent the Gospel light going out to the nations. The Gentiles have therefore no excuse. They who were once “without God in the world” before the cross can now be “made nigh by the blood of Christ” (Eph 2:11-12). The cross has made the difference for the nations. It was the turning point for the heathen nations. They have now seen the light. What they do with that light is, of course, up to them. But God has opened a way of access to all nations without favour. They are no longer deceived as to the way.

again, I have no idea what you are trying to discuss.

I asked if Satan was bound now.

I asked if Jesus was ruling with a rod of Iron,

can you please answer the questions.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Revelation is a prophetic letter. While it uses symbols. these symbols represent literal events.

There is also the spirit of the word too. Paul Malcomsen gave a pretty good take on the spirit of satan bound that I could absolutely see.

 

[Marty fox]

Your post reminded me of two verses that never seem to completely leave me and Ive wondered about them a lot, and if they might be actual prophecy that comes into play.
The first one is to one of the churches and says, satan will throw you into prison for ten days.
The other says, that time will be cut short.

I know some may scoff but I’ve wondered if those who are found worthy to escape that time of testing coming on the whole world to test its people might suffer through ten very awful days first.
And I’ve wondered about what that time being cut short might actually mean. We see it as seven years but might that time of seven years be cut short?

Anyway, just some of my odd thoughts and wonderings. I certainly wouldn’t argue about it as if I know. Just some of those random thoughts, you know?

I really do need to go back and read all the posts I missed in here yesterday when conversation was flying so fast!

The time cut short was the siege on Jerusalem, if it wasn’t cut short all of Jerusalem would of perished