Do Men Have Authority Over Women?

[Naomanos]

How about you actually interact with the example? You don't because you know you have no ground to stand on here.

No. We're creating a circular argument and I do not engage in circular arguments.

 

[reformed1689]

No. We're creating a circular argument and I do not engage in circular arguments.

No this is not a circular argument. I gave a specific scenario for you to interact with. That's not a circular argument. But here is what I notice, you have yet to provide any biblical support for your position. You just say "I don't believe that" or "That's not what my pastor says" but you have yet to show from Scripture your position.

 

[Naomanos]

so they may not be the best source for accurate Biblical interpretation.

Which is your opinion and I disagree with your opinion.

 

[Naomanos]

No this is not a circular argument. I gave a specific scenario for you to interact with. That's not a circular argument. But here is what I notice, you have yet to provide any biblical support for your position. You just say "I don't believe that" or "That's not what my pastor says" but you have yet to show from Scripture your position.

It is a circular argument and I have chosen to not engage in it. I don't do circular arguments.

Believe what you will, but I will not engage other than to say I will agree to disagree.

 

[marks]

I have not argued that.

Isn't that EXACTLY what you have argued?

Much love!

 

[reformed1689]

Which is your opinion and I disagree with your opinion.

You disagree that the Episcopal church is in favor of LGBTQ and gay marriage? Or you disagree that is against Scripture? Or you disagree that even though your church affirms those sinful lifestyles that they would not be the best for accurate biblical interpretation?

 

[reformed1689]

Isn't that EXACTLY what you have argued?

Much love!

No, it is not.

It is a circular argument and I have chosen to not engage in it. I don't do circular arguments.

Believe what you will, but I will not engage other than to say I will agree to disagree.

Because you know you are outside of Scripture on this one. So you agree to stay unbiblical in your view. Noted.

 

[Naomanos]

You disagree that the Episcopal church is in favor of LGBTQ and gay marriage? Or you disagree that is against Scripture? Or you disagree that even though your church affirms those sinful lifestyles that they would not be the best for accurate biblical interpretation?

I quoted exactly what I disagree with.

 

[Naomanos]

Because you know you are outside of Scripture on this one. So you agree to stay unbiblical in your view. Noted.

Your opinion which I reject.

I am inside of scripture and my pastors are fine with our marriage plans. So what you have to say means absolutely nothing!

 

[reformed1689]

Your opinion which I reject.

No, you reject Scripture.

 

[reformed1689]

I quoted exactly what I disagree with.

So do you think Gay Marriage is biblical? Because your church says it is.

 

[Naomanos]

So do you think Gay Marriage is biblical? Because your church says it is.

If it is their choice to marry after I say that they shouldn't, who am I to stop them? They made the choice, they get to live with the consequences of that choice.

 

[Naomanos]

No, you reject Scripture.

You know what they say about assumptions, right? I reject your interpretation of the Bible and your opinions.

 

[marks]

How on earth is that deflecting? It seems to me you are now floundering around because you don't have a legitimate response.

Are you now a mind reader because you lack self awareness? You don't see how you are deflecting, therefore, I must be floundering? No, I'm not floundering. I only wish we could have a higher level discussion without having to talk about whether I'm floundering or not. Just more of people's negative opinions of others to clutter the forum.

I switched your hypothetical situation to it being you the one who wanted to keep the kids out of church, and your wife being the one who wanted to keep them there.

I asked, do you talk about it until agreement is reached, or do you just make that decision and pull them out?

I asked if it makes you right to "use your God given authority", and make this choice on your own?

You answered, the right answer is the kids stay in church. But you did not answer my question, whether you would be right. And so that was a deflection.

Best to just recognize it, own it, move on if you don't care, fix it if you do, but don't deny it.

Much love!

 

[PinSeeker]

Regarding Paul's exhortations in Ephesians 5... What he is preaching here to men and women alike ~ in differing ways, of course ~ is to strive toward the reversal of God's judgment placed on Adam and Eve as a result of their fall in Genesis 3. Because one day, it will be finally reversed for good, by God Himself. This judgment placed was as follows:

* On Adam, since he disobeyed, he would have strife throughout his life. And this judgment is extends to all men, as Adam is the federal head of the human race and the first man. So Paul, in Ephesians 5, exhorts all men, saying "husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave Himself up for her."

* On Eve, that she was that her pain in childbearing would be multiplied, and in pain would she bring forth children, and ~ and this is particularly pertinent to the conversation here ~ that her desire would be contrary to her husband, but he shall rule over her. And this judgment is extended to all women in the same way as Adam's to all men. So Paul exhorts women to "submit to (their) own husbands, as to the Lord.... (f)or the husband is the head of the wife even as Christ is the head of the church, His body, and is Himself its Savior... (n)ow as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit in everything to their husbands."

Biblical submission is quite different than what many suppose; it is not subservience. And this ruling over the wife by the husband is terribly misunderstood as well; it means not that women should, woodenly speaking, "men should always tell their wives what to do and when to do it," or any ridiculous thing like that. Rather it corresponds intimately with Christ's love for, and service to (Christ Himself said that the Son of Man came not to be served, but to serve), and sacrifice on behalf of ~ in the stead of ~ His church.

Again, these things are worth deeply pondering in the heart.

Grace and peace to all of you.

 

[marks]

Within reason.

When is it within reason to force someone to violate their conscience?

?

 

[Naomanos]

Regarding Paul's exhortations in Ephesians 5... What he is preaching here to men and women alike ~ in differing ways, of course ~ is to strive toward the reversal of God's judgment placed on Adam and Eve as a result of their fall in Genesis 3. Because one day, it will be finally reversed for good, by God Himself. This judgment placed was as follows:

* On Adam, since he disobeyed, he would have strife throughout his life. And this judgment is extends to all men, as Adam is the federal head of the human race and the first man. So Paul, in Ephesians 5, exhorts all men, saying "husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave Himself up for her."

* On Eve, that she was that her pain in childbearing would be multiplied, and in pain would she bring forth children, and ~ and this is particularly pertinent to the conversation here ~ that her desire would be contrary to her husband, but he shall rule over her. And this judgment is extended to all women in the same way as Adam's to all men. So Paul exhorts women to "submit to (their) own husbands, as to the Lord.... (f)or the husband is the head of the wife even as Christ is the head of the church, His body, and is Himself its Savior... (n)ow as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit in everything to their husbands."

Biblical submission is quite different than what many suppose; it is not subservience. And this ruling over the wife by the husband is terribly misunderstood as well; it means not that women should, woodenly speaking, "men should always tell their wives what to do and when to do it," or any ridiculous thing like that. Rather it corresponds intimately with Christ's love for, and service to (Christ Himself said that the Son of Man came not to be served, but to serve), and sacrifice on behalf of ~ in the stead of ~ His church.

Again, these things are worth deeply pondering in the heart.

Grace and peace to all of you.

I can definitely agree with that!

 

[PinSeeker]

He also states that those that burn with passion should marry. So, which is it?

I'm... going to pass on this comment... :)

Or maybe I am exactly who He wants me to be and it is not me who needs to change?

See above (post 375).

My apologies. I can come off kinda cold in my writing at times, and at other times the written word doesn't fully express our emotions well.

No apology necessary. But it seems to be much more than what you say here.

Grace and peace to you.

 

[reformed1689]

If it is their choice to marry after I say that they shouldn't, who am I to stop them? They made the choice, they get to live with the consequences of that choice.

That was not the question, the question was, is it BIBLICAL.

 

[marks]

Biblical submission is quite different than what many suppose; it is not subservience. And this ruling over the wife by the husband is terribly misunderstood as well; it means not that women should, woodenly speaking, "men should always tell their wives what to do and when to do it," or any ridiculous thing like that. Rather it corresponds intimately with Christ's love for, and service to (Christ Himself said that the Son of Man came not to be served, but to serve), and sacrifice on behalf of ~ in the stead of ~ His church.

Again, these things are worth deeply pondering in the heart.

Grace and peace to all of you.

Amen!!