Do Men Have Authority Over Women?

[Naomanos]

Maybe you should look for a pastor that actually preaches the Bible and not just tickles your ears.

I have several and I trust them as Gid has called them to lead their church.

Maybe you should learn that your interpretation of the Bible might not actually be correct one.

 

[marks]

You mentioned that where the head goes the body follows, yet, you never said that the wife would be the head, yet at times she will sure be the head as there are times where the husband has no clue what he is doing, but the wife does. This is why I have an issue with ultimate authority going to the husband. It's cookie cutter and not all marriages fit that cookie cutter mold.

I don't equate "head" with "ultimate authority". I think this is describing the nature of men and women, and how God works in us in our marriages. But God says that the man is head of the wife, make no mistake, His statement is true. It just is. This is more easily seen after 20 years of marriage, when you discover it really was your influence that made the marriage what it is.

I agree, there are times I need to know what my wife thinks is good, and do that, but that doesn't negate God's statement. So I think that the best thing is the remember this, and to accept the responsibility that others are looking to you, and will follow where you go, even if that's in circles.

Much love!

 

[bbyrd009]

Maybe you should learn that your interpretation of the Bible might not actually be correct one

not bad advice for anyone imo, keeping this front and center has led to many revelations for me

 

[bbyrd009]

I don't equate "head" with "ultimate authority". I think this is describing the nature of men and women, and how God works in us in our marriages. But God says that the man is head of the wife, make no mistake, His statement is true. It just is. This is more easily seen after 20 years of marriage, when you discover it really was your influence that made the marriage what it is.

I agree, there are times I need to know what my wife thinks is good, and do that, but that doesn't negate God's statement. So I think that the best thing is the remember this, and to accept the responsibility that others are looking to you, and will follow where you go, even if that's in circles.

Much love!

hmm dunno about following someone going in circles?
but i will suggest that a female contains both a man and a woman, so to speak, as does a male.
we are all “divided”

 

[reformed1689]

Perhaps that isn't your call, now is it?

If my fiance and I have talked about this and we agree to what I have stated above, then what you say matters not. It isn't also that I am not willing to be a leader, I am not a leader in any sense. I have no drive or desire or need to be one. It simply isn't something that crosses my mind or makes me feel I complete because I cannot be.

Here is the thing, what does Scripture say?

It says the Husband is the head. That is the leader. If you don't want to lead you can't be a biblical husband. Period. No way around it.

Also,
22 Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord. 23 For the husband is the head of the wife even as Christ is the head of the church, his body, and is himself its Savior. 24 Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit in everything to their husbands.

The Holy Bible: English Standard Version (Wheaton, IL: Crossway Bibles, 2016), Eph 5:22–24.

Some here would say that doesn't mean the husband has authority over the wife. That is hogwash. It says submit as you would to the Lord. Does the Lord have authority over us? You bet he does. The church submits to Christ. Does Christ have authority over the church? You bet he does. SO ALSO wives should submit IN EVERYTHING to their husbands.

So yes, you have a problem with Scripture here.

Let me give you a practical example. Now, I know you said you are not going to have kids so just hear me for sake of illustration.

Say you have elementary aged kids. Your wife, all of a sudden, decides they are not going to go to church anymore. Do you talk it out until you come to an agreement or do you continue to take the kids to church? There is only one right answer here. The wife is in the wrong and you as the husband are the leader.

Now, @marks, I am not saying you physically assert your authority over her. Not talking about physical abuse. But I am saying the husband, under Christ, is the final authority in a home. It is not a joint effort in that sense. Now, I am also NOT SAYING that we should not seek input from our wives. We most definitely should. And I am also not saying that there are not things we can be joint leaders on. We definitely can. But the final authority, under Christ, rests in the husband, not the wife.

NOW, also, husbands are to love their wives. But that does not always mean you are going to come to an agreement either.

 

[reformed1689]

I have several and I trust them as Gid has called them to lead their church.

Maybe you should learn that your interpretation of the Bible might not actually be correct one.

Oh trust me, your pastors are dead wrong on this one.

 

[Naomanos]

Oh trust me, your pastors are dead wrong on this one.

Since it seems you and I will be going in circles, I will agree to disagree with you from here on out in this thread.

 

[Naomanos]

Here is the thing, what does Scripture say?

It says the Husband is the head. That is the leader. If you don't want to lead you can't be a biblical husband. Period. No way around it.

Also,
22 Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord. 23 For the husband is the head of the wife even as Christ is the head of the church, his body, and is himself its Savior. 24 Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit in everything to their husbands.

The Holy Bible: English Standard Version (Wheaton, IL: Crossway Bibles, 2016), Eph 5:22–24.

Some here would say that doesn't mean the husband has authority over the wife. That is hogwash. It says submit as you would to the Lord. Does the Lord have authority over us? You bet he does. The church submits to Christ. Does Christ have authority over the church? You bet he does. SO ALSO wives should submit IN EVERYTHING to their husbands.

So yes, you have a problem with Scripture here.

Let me give you a practical example. Now, I know you said you are not going to have kids so just hear me for sake of illustration.

Say you have elementary aged kids. Your wife, all of a sudden, decides they are not going to go to church anymore. Do you talk it out until you come to an agreement or do you continue to take the kids to church? There is only one right answer here. The wife is in the wrong and you as the husband are the leader.

Now, @marks, I am not saying you physically assert your authority over her. Not talking about physical abuse. But I am saying the husband, under Christ, is the final authority in a home. It is not a joint effort in that sense. Now, I am also NOT SAYING that we should not seek input from our wives. We most definitely should. And I am also not saying that there are not things we can be joint leaders on. We definitely can. But the final authority, under Christ, rests in the husband, not the wife.

NOW, also, husbands are to love their wives. But that does not always mean you are going to come to an agreement either.

I will agree to disagree with this reply.

 

[reformed1689]

I will agree to disagree with this reply.

How about you actually interact with the example? You don't because you know you have no ground to stand on here.

 

[marks]

Now, @marks, I am not saying you physically assert your authority over her.

To be clear, you are OK with forcing you wife into that to which she objects? Even if her objection is a matter of her own conscience?

That to you a disagreement is OK to settle by fiat, rather than continuning to discuss, as you declare what will be?

Much love!

 

[reformed1689]

To be clear, you are OK with forcing you wife into that to which she objects? Even if her objection is a matter of her own conscience?

That to you a disagreement is OK to settle by fiat, rather than continuning to discuss, as you declare what will be?

Much love!

Within reason. There are some hills not worthy dying on like going to a baseball game vs an amusement park right? But did you see my example I gave in the post you quoted? Yes, it would be as I declared. The kids would still go to church and she would be living unbiblically and eventually be subject to church discipline if she refused to give up the position.

 

[marks]

Let me give you a practical example. Now, I know you said you are not going to have kids so just hear me for sake of illustration.

Say you have elementary aged kids. You, all of a sudden, decide they are not going to go to church anymore. Do you talk about it until you come to an agreement or do you just take the kids out of church? There is only one right answer here.

What is the right answer here? According to you, you have the authority, but that doesn't make you right. And just swinging the heavy hammer won't make you right, if you are in the wrong.

Are you ever in the wrong?? Rhetorical question.

Knowing I'm the head of the wife gives me an increased responsibility, it does not give me carte banche rule by fiat, what ever I command my wife to do, By God! She must do! That's just not what the Scriptures teach.

Do you really think that all this "submit yourselves one to another", preferring others over yourself, all the "one anothering" that is taught, how we each receive what every part supplies, it all goes out the window when you say "I do", suddenly changing from unity in love to tyranny in the name of love?

There is also a safety in respecting the minds and choices of our wives.

To me the issue is a matter of style. If heavy handedness is your style, you risk missing a lot of opportunity for growth and improvement as you insist on your way over hers, failing to provide opportunity for you to come to see her view is better, Godlier, and years later, regrettable for not having being chosen.

So we see our wives as our partner, or as our subordinate?

God gives a man the headship. Man grasps for power. That's what I see.

Much love!

 

[reformed1689]

What is the right answer here? According to you, you have the authority, but that doesn't make you right. And just swinging the heavy hammer won't make you right, if you are in the wrong.

The right answer is the kids still go to church. There is no alternative biblically.

Are you ever in the wrong??

Of course.

Knowing I'm the head of the wife gives me an increased responsibility, it does not give me carte banche rule by fiat, what ever I command my wife to do, By God! She must do! That's just not what the Scriptures teach.

I have not argued that.

Do you really think that all this "submit yourselves one to another", preferring others over yourself, all the "one anothering" that is taught, how we each receive what every part supplies, it all goes out the window when you say "I do", suddenly changing from unity in love to tyranny in the name of love?

Again, this is a strawman argument.

 

[Holy999]

To put it simply, if you follow Scripture, yes.

Wives are to submit to husbands.
Women are not to have authority over men in the church.
Women are to remain quiet in the church (yes that means women pastors is wholly against Scripture).

yes you have to feed her ...and pay your bills and hers.

 

[marks]

SO ALSO wives should submit IN EVERYTHING to their husbands.

Really? Everything?

I do not agree.

Much love!

 

[atpollard]

BTW, something I have yet to mention, we have talked with our pastors at our Episcopal church and they have said they see nothing wrong with how our marriage will be. They have also said that all marriages are different and there is no one cookie cutter way to run one.

The Episcopal church would also see nothing wrong with a marriage of two husbands or a marriage of two wives … so they may not be the best source for accurate Biblical interpretation.

 

[reformed1689]

yes you have to feed her ...and pay your bills and hers.

: ok......? lol

 

[marks]

The right answer is the kids still go to church. There is no alternative biblically.

You are deflecting.

Much love!

 

[reformed1689]

Really? Everything?

I do not agree.

Much love!

You realize that was a direct quote from Scripture not commentary right? So do you disagree with Scripture? Because that is what you just said.

 

[reformed1689]

You are deflecting.

Much love!

How on earth is that deflecting? It seems to me you are now floundering around because you don't have a legitimate response.