I'm including natural birth. First Natural birth, then the second birth, into the Law, then the third birth, into the promise.
Born again again.
Much love!
Once Saved, Always Saved?
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Born again again.
Much love!
Yes, natural body then spiritual body.
I really suggest some relooking at this whole idea.
Much love!
Issued by whom?
What is a "license to sin"? It sounds like something made up, to make something else sound bad. I don't see it in the Bible. God actually commands all men everywhere to repent. So it's not coming from God. And God is the only One Who dictates about sin, what it is, who may and may not sin, all that. So only God could give a license to sin.
I don't see Him doing that.
Your thoughts on this? Do you issue that license?
But that's not what you mean at all, is it?
Isn't what you really mean is that to believe OSAS is to have a disregard for sin? Or am I understanding this incorrectly?
Much love!
ScottA
Well-Known Member
Nobody, including YOU , needs a “ License to Sin”—- we ALL do a remarkable job of sinning Without one....or are you Blind to that ?
The Bible says that “ Nothing in the Future” can take us out of His Hand.....If a man got Saved and was in God's Grip, if he LATER decided to remove himself from that Grip, it would be something that happened in the Future, wouldn’t it? Back to the drawing board for you......again.
“ They see , yet they don’t see”
This is why Jesus said, “ Don’t cast your Pearls before Swine”..... I keep hearing “ Oinks” when some of these guys post...
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
You seem to be completely missing the point. If we forsake God and fall away, has He left us and forsaken us? No. We would have left and forsaken Him in that case.
Sinning gives me the same pleasure as Sticking my hand in a fire.....somebody could give me a “ License” to take a razor blade and slice off my lips, but I would never use it....same way with a “ license to Sin” —— who wants it?
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
It's right out of Galatians 4:22-31 plainly written for us. I don't care what you think Jesus was actually alluding to in regard to flesh giving birth to flesh by water. The important thing is you see and understand what Paul makes clear in Galatians 4:22-31, that the man born of the old covenant (Hagar) will not inherit the kingdom. Only the man born of the New Covenant (Sarah) will. Everybody baptized into Moses via the waters of repentance won't inherit the kingdom. Only those who are also baptized into Christ by the Spirit will. Nicodemus, being a teacher of Israel, should have known this.
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
Okay. Then where is the second birth into the law in Jesus' discourse with Nicodemus?
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
All one has to do is read Galatians 4:22-31. That is the "relooking at this idea" that I have done. That's what no one in the church does in regard to the scriptures anymore. The church only knows and reads the scriptures pop preachers of the day are using, and the church understands them exactly the way these pop teachers tell them to understand it. There are no true Bible readers left in the church today. Finding the treasures of the Bible is lost to the church these days. I have found the only way to know the scriptures is to read them for yourself. Which I see no one does anymore because I post stuff and people react in a way that shows they never knew it was in the Bible. And they don't know it's in the Bible because they're not reading it for themselves, and their favorite teachers apparently don't know about them either. The teachers themselves having only been taught by the doctrinal construct that was handed down to them and which they didn't learn for themselves in their own reading of the whole counsel of the Bible.
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
That is exactly what the NEW OSAS teaches. BloodBought53 has repeatedly said to not worry about sin. The original OSAS teaching did not teach this at all. It taught that if you did not care about sin and lived in it you were never really saved to begin with. Calvinists should be pointing this out every time somebody comes into these forums and says sin doesn't matter.
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Where? Quote the verse, highlight the words.
It's not. You are born once from your parents, and, if you are, a second birth from God.
Much love!
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
Did you stop reading in Romans at Romans 11:6? If so, you should have read further. You should not interpret any given verse in scripture in such a way that contradicts other scripture. But, that is exactly what you're doing.
Romans 11:30 Just as you who were at one time disobedient to God have now received mercy as a result of their disobedience, 31 so they too have now become disobedient in order that they too may now receive mercy as a result of God’s mercy to you. 32 For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.
Yes, what Paul said in Romans 9:16 is true. It is not up to man to determine who God will or won't have mercy on. But, it so happens that God wants to have mercy on all people. You conveniently left that out of your thought process. But, He doesn't have mercy on all people. Why not? Not because He doesn't want to have mercy on all people. Romans 11:32 proves that (along with much other scripture like 1 John 2:1-2, 1 Timothy 2:3-6, 2 Peter 3:9, Acts 17:30, etc.). So, the only other viable reason that He doesn't have mercy on all people is because not all people have used their God given free will to choose to repent and have faith as God requires.
Romans 11:6 doesn't support your doctrine at all. I would hope that we all agree that salvation is by grace and not by works (Eph 2:8-9). But, faith in Christ is not a work. Paul differentiated between faith and works as did James in James 2. So, there's no basis for trying to claim that one's personal faith in Christ is a work in the context of verses like Romans 11:6.
Sorry, logic doesn't work that way.
"My unsupported view is actually supported if I can ask you what I think is a trick question about something else."
Nope.
You are born once naturally, and, if you are, once spiritually. You seem to be using 'born again' as some kind of jargon for some kind of new paradigm or something, I'm saying it's a real birthing, begetting, and it happens once naturally from your parents, and, if you are, once from God Himself.
Much love!
The thing is, I do know what's in there, much of it, and that's not there. But maybe you can show the specific verses, but you haven't so far. I'm not aware of any, you aren't posting verses, only saying, It's there, can't you see it?
No, I cannot.
Much love!
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
What's wrong with you? I showed you the verses that say the old covenant births a son, and the New Covenant births a son. I don't care if you think Jesus was alluding to these two births or not. That does not take away from the plain truth that Paul wrote about this. There is a birth by way of the law, and there is a birth by way of the promise. You can't say it isn't in there:
"22For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by the slave woman and the other by the free woman.b 23His son by the slave woman was born according to the flesh, but his son by the free woman was born through the promise.24These things serve as illustrations, for the women represent two covenants. One covenant is from Mount Sinai and bears children into slavery: This is Hagar. 25Now Hagar stands for Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to the present-day Jerusalem, because she is in slavery with her children. 26But the Jerusalem above is free, and she is our mother." Galatians 4:22-26
But you are certainly free to say this is not what Jesus was referring to in John 3:5-6.
Ephesians 4:11-13 KJV
11) And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
12) For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
13) Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
We've not come to the full unity . . . there are still teachers.
Much love!
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
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