Will the Jews build a Third Temple?

[Keraz]

From the destruction of Gog's army to the Second Coming of Jesus in Ezekiel 39:21-29 is 7 years. The burning of the weapons of Gog's army will take place over the course of that 7 years.

9 And they that dwell in the cities of Israel shall go forth, and shall set on fire and burn the weapons, both the shields and the bucklers, the bows and the arrows, and the handstaves, and the spears, and they shall burn them with fire seven years:

10 So that they shall take no wood out of the field, neither cut down any out of the forests; for they shall burn the weapons with fire: and they shall spoil those that spoiled them, and rob those that robbed them, saith the Lord GOD.

Thinking the cleanup will still be going on right up to the glorious Return, shows how far from reality you are.
The beast; Satan, will be persecuting and killing Christians after he conquers them; Zephaniah 14:1-2, and God will be sending His wrath upon those who follow the beast and take his mark, all during the last 3 1/2 years.

As the Seventh Seal is a time gap, from the Sixth Seal to the glorious Return; it is easily seen to be about 20 years earth time, using the formula given: One day in heaven equals a thousand years earth time. About a half hour -1/48th of a day in heaven = 1/48th of a thousand years on earth = 20.8 years.
Therefore there will be plenty of time from the Sixth Seal world changer, that will clear and cleanse the Middle East region, for all the faithful Christian peoples to settle in all of the holy Land, to build a new Temple, to experience and clean up after the massive attack from the North by Gog from Magog.
After that attack, the leader of the rest of the world will come to Jerusalem and negotiate a 7 year treaty of peace and friendship. As you correctly show above; at the mid point he will break the treaty and conquer the people in the holy Land. Half of the people will leave - go to a place of safety and the other half must remain under persecution. Revelation 12:14 & 17

The 7 year cleanup of corpses and weapons must have been completed by then.

 

[Keraz]

Yes we are Abrahams seed by faith! but that does not make us Israelites. To be an Israelite one must be a descendant of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob! You reinterpreting Scripture forgets that golden rule as spelled out in the bible.

Well we share some common genetics as Abraham and ourselves all trace back to Adam but no we are not direct descendants genetically of Abraham himself. That is a hypothesis that has been thouroughly debunked.

Paul said that we Christians are the Israelites of God. Galatians 6:14-16 He said: the only thing that counts is the new Creation; That is: to believe in and accept Jesus as our Saviour.
Your attempts to raise the Jews to the chosen people status, fail miserably in the light of many scriptures that tell of their punishment and how only a remnant will survive. You do it, of course; to make the false rapture to heaven idea work. You in heaven - the Jews here under tribulation. A fable, a sci-fi dream that will never happen.

The simple fact is that an Israelite is any person who has overcome the worldly temptations and who loves the Lord and keeps the Commandments. Ethnicity has nothing to do with it.
Why do you or anyone accept the claim of the Israelis to be descendants of Judah? They have no proof. But I suppose people like you believe Clark Kent is Superman.

 

[Douggg]

Thinking the cleanup will still be going on right up to the glorious Return, shows how far from reality you are.
The beast; Satan, will be persecuting and killing Christians after he conquers them; Zephaniah 14:1-2, and God will be sending His wrath upon those who follow the beast and take his mark, all during the last 3 1/2 years

The Jews will not be burning the diesel for purpose of "clean up", but for cooking and heat. People are still going to eat and try to stay warm all through the 7 years.

The "clean up" of the land is referring to the cleaning of all the dead bodies of Gog's armies from laying around rotting and causing a health hazard as well as stinking up the land. That activity will take the first 7 months of the seven years.

11 And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will give unto Gog a place there of graves in Israel, the valley of the passengers on the east of the sea: and it shall stop the noses of the passengers: and there shall they bury Gog and all his multitude: and they shall call it The valley of Hamongog.

12 And seven months shall the house of Israel be burying of them, that they may cleanse the land.

 

[Douggg]

Paul said that we Christians are the Israelites of God. Galatians 6:14-16

No, Paul did not. Paul was referring to non-Jews who had turned to Christ, and also to Jews who had turned to Christ, calling those Jews the Israel of God.

Two different groups, both of whom had turned to Christ. In Christ, both are a new creation.


15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing [referring to the Jews], nor uncircumcision, [referring to non-Jews] but a new creature.

16 And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.

 

[TribulationSigns]

Nope that is biblically and grammatically impossible to hold. Gentiles in Christ are Gentiles and Jews in Christ are Jews. We are all one in Christ but do not lose our ethnicity.

Not according to Christ.

Rom 2:28-29
(28) For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
(29) But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Ethnicity means nothing.

Paul made that crystal clear in Romans 11

Show me the verse exactly and explain it. You haven't proved anything.

Yes I do 100% in the context they are written.

Really?

Ephesians just says we are now all one in Christ- not Israel!

You forgot that Christ "IS" Israel of God.

Hos 11:1
(1) When Israel was a child, then I loved him, and called my son out of Egypt.

Romans, Galatians and Hebrews say we are children of Abraham! Abraham was not Israel! In order to be a "Jew" one has to be a descendant of Abrahm, Isaac and Jacob!

Facepalm. No no no. Both Jews and Gentiles are spiritual Jews in Christ. Read verse again, again and again!
Rom 2:28-29
(28) For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
(29) But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

As for the other Romans passage Paul is describing what a truw spiritual child of Israel is. If you keep it in its context- you know it is talking about Israelites and not Gentiles .

Obviously, you have no clue what being born again is really about.

Sorry but the chruch was not born until Pentecost-50 days after Jesus rose from the dead!~ OT Israel is not the church and the church is not an Israeli congregation. that is reinterpreting passages.

Incorrect again. The same as the plan of Salvation as prophesied for the New Testament saints points back to the cross. Where else would it point? You realize that our plan of salvation prophesied in water baptism and in the communion supper all points to the cross? Of course it does. We look back at it, while the Old Testament saints looked forward to it. They looked forward to its confirmation and we look to its remembrance. Both seeing the exact same thing. The work of Christ whereby we are saved by faith.

Isaiah 43:10-12

• "Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.
• I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no Savior.
• I have declared, and have saved, and I have shewed, when there was no strange god among you: therefore ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, that I am God[/i]."

The Lord had saved, and the only way He saved men was through the shed blood of Christ. There is no other way except we dabble in absurdity. Obviously the plan of salvation took into account Old Testament saints. Which is why they are saved by faith, just like you and I.

Also, for example, Christ's dying on the cross 2000 years ago doesn't mean that we are left Savior-less because we weren't living at the time. Why Not? Because real time is not a factor with the efficacy of Salvation, and thus the work of Christ is efficacious (by faith) for people living today. Just as it was efficacious (by faith) for people 2000 years before the cross. Forward or backward, it is the very same faith of Christ that saves, and time does not negate it. Which is the very point God was making when He declared Christ as the sacrifice slain from before the world even existed:

Revelation 13:8

• "And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world."

How is Christ slain before the foundation of the world? Because it was God's intention to save man from before the foundation of the world (Abel, Abraham, etc), and He made provision for saints that would live and die before the event. Its called salvation by faith, not by sight. Because the salvation of the cross reaches back through that time you speak of, all the way to Abel, slain by Cain. For the efficacy of the certainty of the event is as though Christ was already slain before God laid the foundation of the world. So that these believers, by faith, may also experience the righteousness of Christ. And that is precisely why Moses could appear in glory with Christ at the transfiguration. Because for Moses, He was already made righteous as part of the efficacy of the cross. In principle, Christ was the Lamb already slain from before the foundation of the world. God is not a man that His Promise needs to be verified before true, it is faithful true and verified from the split second it was prophesied. The actual event is a formality. Why was it prophesied? Because it was already known of God to be true and trustworthy. i.e., Abraham was saved by the Spirit of Christ years before the cross "because" Christ was the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world in principle. As the word of God, it was already done in heaven, and only needed to be worked out on earth.

And one more thing, the Holy Spirit did go to the Old and New Testament period:

Zec 14:8-9
(8) And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.
(9) And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.

The former sea, from the Cross when Christ went to Jersualem to hung on the cross, represented the Old Testament congregation. The hinder sea after the Cross represented the New Testament congregation. It is a mystery that you need to understand spiritually discerned.

And we need to understand what is clear is that anyone, whether Jews in OT or Genetiles in NT, cannot have salvation without having been born of the Spirit from above. That's an impossibility. Because that is precisely what salvation is! Having our sins paid for by the blood of Christ. That's the definition of salvation! Period. You mustn't loose sight of that. Thus, if we want to cling to an idea that no one was born of God "before" the cross, then of necessity we must also hold that no one was saved before the cross. But then that is contradictory and how was Christ the Lamb slain from before the foundation of the world? How then were men of old saved by faith? Whose faith, their own? Or the faith of Christ in them? Indeed, even as David spoke under the inspiration of God concerning this renewal that would blot out his sins. And we both know, there is only one renewal that can do that.

Psalms 51:9-13

• "Hide thy face from my sins, and blot out all mine iniquities.
• Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me.
• Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.
• Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation; and uphold me with thy free spirit.
• Then will I teach transgressors thy ways; and sinners shall be converted unto thee"

This is King David being born again! How would God create in David a new heart except by the Spirit of Christ, the only Spirit of the new man, the only right Spirit of renewal, the only spirit of the joy of salvation?!. If He didn't have it, then He wasn't saved. But he DID have it, and he was saved, and thus the joy of salvation came with the Spirit of Christ without cost. Whether you like it or not, I go what God said through King David!

 

[covenantee]

Yes we are Abrahams seed by faith! but that does not make us Israelites. To be an Israelite one must be a descendant of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob! You reinterpreting Scripture forgets that golden rule as spelled out in the bible.

Well we share some common genetics as Abraham and ourselves all trace back to Adam but no we are not direct descendants genetically of Abraham himself. That is a hypothesis that has been thouroughly debunked.

Your claims are false in both Scripture and science.

Through natural genetic dispersion and diffusion over up to more than three millennia, Abraham's DNA is possessed by the entire human race.

Corroborated empirically by the Jewish community itself (identified today by culture and religion, not by genetics).

Abraham lineage
DNA Tests Could Fulfill God’s Promise to Abraham by Revealing Millions of Jews. But How Jewish is Jewish Enough?
Israel in all of Us? Research finds 'Jewish genes' in unusual places
Jewish-Roots Arabs in Israel
Tracing the lost tribes to Jewish communities in Africa
Nigeria's Igbo Jews: 'Lost tribe' of Israel? - CNN
http://www.worldjewishcongress.org/...-africa-has-jewish-roots-genetic-tests-reveal
https://www.jpost.com/Jewish-World/...her-claims-proof-of-tribe-of-Ephraim-in-India
https://www.jta.org/2013/05/23/life...bush-bani-israel-tribe-claims-jewish-heritage

Demonstrated mathematically.

Example of ancestral genetic ubiquity:

Charlemagne’s DNA and Our Universal Royalty

BY CARL ZIMMER

Nobody in my past was hugely famous, at least that I know of. I vaguely recall that an ancestor of mine who shipped over on the Mayflower distinguished himself by falling out of the ship and having to get fished out of the water. He might be notable, I guess, but hardly famous. It is much more fun to think that I am a bloodline descendant of Charlemagne. And in 1999, Joseph Chang gave me permission to think that way.

Chang was not a genealogist who had decided to make me his personal project. Instead, he is a statistician at Yale who likes to think of genealogy as a mathematical problem. When you draw your genealogy, you make two lines from yourself back to each of your parents. Then you have to draw two lines for each of them, back to your four grandparents. And then eight great-grandparents, sixteen great-great-grandparents, and so on. But not so on for very long. If you go back to the time of Charlemagne, forty generations or so, you should get to a generation of a trillion ancestors. That’s about two thousand times more people than existed on Earth when Charlemagne was alive.

The only way out of this paradox is to assume that our ancestors are not independent of one another. That is, if you trace their ancestry back, you loop back to a common ancestor. We’re not talking about first-cousin stuff here–more like twentieth-cousin. This means that instead of drawing a tree that fans out exponentially, we need to draw a web-like tapestry.

In a paper he published in 1999 [pdf], Chang analyzed this tapestry mathematically. If you look at the ancestry of a living population of people, he concluded, you’ll eventually find a common ancestor of all of them. That’s not to say that a single mythical woman somehow produced every European by magically laying a clutch of eggs. All this means is that as you move back through time, sooner or later some of the lines in the genealogy will cross, meeting at a single person.

As you go back further in time, more of those lines cross as you encounter more common ancestors of the living population. And then something really interesting happens. There comes a point at which, Chang wrote, “all individuals who have any descendants among the present-day individuals are actually ancestors of all present-day individuals.”

In 2002, the journalist Steven Olson wrote an article in the Atlantic about Chang’s work. To put some empirical meat on the abstract bones of Chang’s research, Olson considered a group of real people–living Europeans.

The most recent common ancestor of every European today (except for recent immigrants to the Continent) was someone who lived in Europe in the surprisingly recent past—only about 600 years ago. In other words, all Europeans alive today have among their ancestors the same man or woman who lived around 1400. Before that date, according to Chang’s model, the number of ancestors common to all Europeans today increased, until, about a thousand years ago, a peculiar situation prevailed: 20 percent of the adult Europeans alive in 1000 would turn out to be the ancestors of no one living today (that is, they had no children or all their descendants eventually died childless); each of the remaining 80 percent would turn out to be a direct ancestor of every European living today.

Suddenly, my pedigree looked classier: I am a descendant of Charlemagne. Of course, so is every other European. By the way, I’m also a descendant of Nefertiti. And so are you, and everyone else on Earth today. Chang figured that out by expanding his model from living Europeans to living humans, and getting an estimate of 3400 years instead of a thousand for the all-ancestor generation.

Things have changed a lot in the fourteen years since Chang published his first paper on ancestry. Scientists have amassed huge databases of genetic information about people all over the world. These may not be the same thing as a complete genealogy of the human race, but geneticists can still use them to tackle some of the same questions that intrigued Chang.

Recently, two geneticists, Peter Ralph of the University of Southern California and Graham Coop of the University of California at Davis, decided to look at the ancestry of Europe. They took advantage of a compilation of information about 2257 people from across the continent. Scientists had examined half a million sites in each person’s DNA, creating a distinctive list of genetic markers for each of them.

You can use this kind of genetic information to make some genealogical inferences, but you have to know what you’re dealing with. Your DNA is not a carbon copy of your parents’. Each time they made eggs or sperm, they shuffled the two copies of each of their chromosomes and put one in the cell. Just as a new deck gets more scrambled the more times you shuffle it, chromosomes get more shuffled from one generation to the next.

This means that if you compare two people’s DNA, you will find some chunks that are identical in sequence. The more closely related people are, the bigger the chunks you’ll find. This diagram shows how two first cousins share a piece of DNA that’s identical by descent (IBD for short).

Ralph and Coop identified 1.9 million of these long shared segments of DNA shared by at least two people in their study. They then used the length of each segment to estimate how long ago it arose from a common ancestor of the living Europeans.

Their results, published today in PLOS Biology, both confirm Chang’s mathematical approach and enrich it. Even within the past thousand years, Ralph and Coop found, people on opposite sides of the continent share a lot of segments in common–so many, in fact, that it’s statistically impossible for them to have gotten them all from a single ancestor. Instead, someone in Turkey and someone in England have to share a lot of ancestors. In fact, as Chang suspected, the only way to explain the DNA is to conclude that everyone who lived a thousand years ago who has any descendants today is an ancestor of every European. Charlemagne for everyone!

If you compare two people in Turkey, you’ll find bigger shared segments of DNA, which isn’t surprising. Since they live in the same country, chances are they have more recent ancestors, and more of them. But there is a rich, intriguing pattern to the number of shared segments among Europeans. People across Eastern Europe, for example, have a larger set of shared segments than people from within single countries in Western Europe. That difference may be the signature of a big expansion of the Slavs.

Ralph and Coop’s study may provide a new tool for reconstructing the history of humans on every continent, not just Europe. It will also probably keep people puzzling over the complexities of genealogy.


How does God distinguish genetic Jews from genetic Jews?

It matters not one whit.

Because God has only two covenant criteria.

Two spiritual genes.

Faith and obedience.

Abraham's Spiritual DNA.

And nothing else.

 

[covenantee]

Yes we are Abrahams seed by faith! but that does not make us Israelites. To be an Israelite one must be a descendant of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob! You reinterpreting Scripture forgets that golden rule as spelled out in the bible.

Behold, we suddenly have yet another dispensationally-spawned group of people in this world. They are known as Abrahamites. They aren't Israelites.

You won't find "Abrahamites" anywhere in Scripture, but they're there.

John 8
33 They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?
39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.
53 Art thou greater than our father Abraham, which is dead? and the prophets are dead: whom makest thou thyself?

Obviously the scribes and Pharisees were Abrahamites, not Israelites. They never attributed their paternity to Isaac and/or Jacob.

Jesus identified their actual paternity.

John 8
44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

 

[JohnDB]

As far as a new Temple....

It would be a very slow process.
First off the "underground" on the Temole Mount is made with Timbers King David provided....then there's the tons of archeological data to be had from the fill dirt. The whole site is geologically unstable and the fill is as well.

So the entire mountain(hill) and retaining walls needs to be made secure...even the Western Wailing Wall needs help. (I really wouldn't pray there if I Were You)

So limestone would have to be brought in as well as steel reinforcements. Reconstruction will take time just to build a foundation for the Temple and Bronze Sea and Altar. It's not going to work structurally any other way.

The Temple Mount is NOT the holiest site in Islam. It's the second (at best)...behind Mecca at a minimum.

But the Temple Reconstruction will mean Israel exists again in every sense of the meaning....and Mohammed is now a false prophet. (Islam's Chief prophet) meaning all of Islam is following a false prophet.
And we seen how Jews reacted to their own Messiah. There's not going to be any lessening of Muslims towards the Jews for this transgression.

 

[Keraz]

The Jews will not be burning the diesel for purpose of "clean up", but for cooking and heat. People are still going to eat and try to stay warm all through the 7 years.

Your replies bear little relation to my posts.
I said it is impossible for the cleanup to extend into the last 3 1/2 years before Jesus Returns. You say they will be, even though the beast will be in control and the Great Trib is happening.

Thinking it will be the Jews who Gog attacks, is your fatal mistake. Ezekiel 38 makes it clear it will not be the people who are there now.

No, Paul did not. Paul was referring to non-Jews who had turned to Christ, and also to Jews who had turned to Christ, calling those Jews the Israel of God.

Two different groups, both of whom had turned to Christ. In Christ, both are a new creation.

The foolish and wrong ideas of the rapture believers, who make out there are two peoples of God, is a complete contradiction of Jesus teachings.

Is it too difficult for people to understand that when Israelite is applied to a person, it isn't their ethnicity but their standing with God, as Overcomers for God. What the Hebrew word Israel means.
That is what Paul said in Galatians 6:14-16 and anyone who tries to say he meant Jews are the only Israel of God, are deceived and have another agenda to promote.
That agenda is of course, the unbelievable and ridiculous theory that God will rapture them off the earth to heaven. They stupidly think this will happen, even before any kind of testing or Judgment.

 

[Douggg]

Your replies bear little relation to my posts.
I said it is impossible for the cleanup to extend into the last 3 1/2 years before Jesus Returns. You say they will be, even though the beast will be in control and the Great Trib is happening.

Keras, the cleaning up is for burial of the dead bodies. The Jews will bury the dead bodies for 7 months.

They are not going to be burying the weapons of war. The weapons of war becomes a spoil for them, i.e. they will be taking material items left of Gog's armies, like medical supplies, tents, sleeping bags, cook ware, canteens, toilet paper, engine/generators, etc, and put it to their own good use. And instead of cutting down trees in Israel for heat and cooking, the Jews will use the diesel from the vehicles. They will also likely eat the MRE (meals read to eat) rations of Gog's army. Those things are what extends for 7 years.

And during the years of the beast, those spoils from Gog's armies will help the Jews to survive.

Ezekiel 39:10 So that they shall take no wood out of the field, neither cut down any out of the forests; for they shall burn the weapons with fire: and they shall spoil those that spoiled them, and rob those that robbed them, saith the Lord GOD.

 

[Douggg]

Is it too difficult for people to understand that when Israelite is applied to a person, it isn't their ethnicity but their standing with God, as Overcomers for God. What the Hebrew word Israel means.
That is what Paul said in Galatians 6:14-16 and anyone who tries to say he meant Jews are the only Israel of God, are deceived and have another agenda to promote.
That agenda is of course, the unbelievable and ridiculous theory that God will rapture them off the earth to heaven. They stupidly think this will happen, even before any kind of testing or Judgment.

Keras, a person does not become an Israelite by virtue of becoming a Christian. Forget about it. It is far more better to be a new creation in Christ.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Paul said that we Christians are the Israelites of God. Galatians 6:14-16 He said: the only thing that counts is the new Creation; That is: to believe in and accept Jesus as our Saviour.
Your attempts to raise the Jews to the chosen people status, fail miserably in the light of many scriptures that tell of their punishment and how only a remnant will survive. You do it, of course; to make the false rapture to heaven idea work. You in heaven - the Jews here under tribulation. A fable, a sci-fi dream that will never happen.

The simple fact is that an Israelite is any person who has overcome the worldly temptations and who loves the Lord and keeps the Commandments. Ethnicity has nothing to do with it.
Why do you or anyone accept the claim of the Israelis to be descendants of Judah? They have no proof. But I suppose people like you believe Clark Kent is Superman.

You butcher grammar to read that into Galatians 6 It is grammatically erroneous and impossible to call the church Israel from Galatians 6. God is the author of Grammar.

Israel is the chosen and covenanted people of God. He made an eternal covenant with them! Within that covenant He spoke of punishments and the diaspora and the regatheirng taking place now.

He also spoke in Ez. and Zech that in the tribulation only 1/3 of Jews will survive and those 1/3 will receive jesus as messiah. I take god at His word.

Now explicitly show from Scripture (and not your allegorical reinterpretations) your simple fact. Leave out Galatians 6 for to repeat the false claim that makes the church Israel just compounds a lie!

As to your last line- you are only looking through the eyes of man and not God. God knows who is and who isn't one of the twelve tribes. He even proves that in REv. when He picks out 12,000 from the twelve tribes for service. You limit god by your limited knowledge.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Not according to Christ.

Rom 2:28-29
(28) For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
(29) But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Ethnicity means nothing.

Wrong again!

Romans 11

King James Version

​

11 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,
3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.
4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.
5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.
8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day.
9 And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumblingblock, and a recompence unto them:
10 Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway.
11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.
12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?
13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:
14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.
15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?
16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.
17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.
20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again.
24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.
29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

Jeremiah 31:33-36

King James Version

​

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
35 Thus saith the Lord, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The Lord of hosts is his name:
36 If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the Lord, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.

Matthew 23:36-39

King James Version

​

36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.
37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.
39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.


Jewish ethnicity still matters to god! He has made everlasting promises to the ethnic people called Israel.

You forgot that Christ "IS" Israel of God.

Hos 11:1
(1) When Israel was a child, then I loved him, and called my son out of Egypt.

You do not understand how prophecy works in Jewish culture. Both Israel and Jesus were called out of Egypt. when both were young.

And Hosea 11 is specifically about Israel. For Jesus it is known as a prophecy that is both literal and typological.

Facepalm. No no no. Both Jews and Gentiles are spiritual Jews in Christ. Read verse again, again and again!
Rom 2:28-29
(28) For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
(29) But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

This is speaking of Jews and you are forcing Gentiles into this passage. The context is Jews and not Gentiles. You cannot rip a verse out of context to reinterpret it.

Incorrect again. The same as the plan of Salvation as prophesied for the New Testament saints points back to the cross. Where else would it point? You realize that our plan of salvation prophesied in water baptism and in the communion supper all points to the cross? Of course it does. We look back at it, while the Old Testament saints looked forward to it. They looked forward to its confirmation and we look to its remembrance. Both seeing the exact same thing. The work of Christ whereby we are saved by faith.

So you believe Jesus a liar then. OKAY!

Matthew 16:18
And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

It is the future active insdiciative- meaning it has not yet started to be built!

Jesus was a very careful speaker unlike us. He used words He meant to use.

Notice He did not say--Will contue or keep building or have been building,. But He did say I will build

 

[TribulationSigns]

Wrong again!

If you can refute my position biblically and honestly. So far you have not

Romans 11:1-29
Jeremiah 31:33-35
Matthew 23:36-39

Jewish ethnicity still matters to god! He has made everlasting promises to the ethnic people called Israel.

Sigh...

God did NOT make everlasting promises to the "ethnic people" of Israel. He made it with "His People", congregation Israel -- including all people in Christ from the Old Testament and the New Testament.

You do not understand how prophecy works in Jewish culture.

Jewish culture? No prophecy according to the WORD of GOD. Not according to Jewish culture, Roman culture, or American culture. Selah!

Both Israel and Jesus were called out of Egypt. when both were young.

And Hosea 11 is specifically about Israel. For Jesus it is known as a prophecy that is both literal and typological.

This is speaking of Jews and you are forcing Gentiles into this passage. The context is Jews and not Gentiles. You cannot rip a verse out of context to reinterpret it.

You need to read again carefully and surrender to God's Word for who Jesus Christ is - the Israel of God. As it is written:

Exo 4:22
(22) And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the LORD, Israel is my son, even my firstborn:

The nation Israel was the 'type' that represented Christ, the firstborn Son of God, wherein the true children of Israel would be delivered from bondage. The nation was called God's firstborn only because it was a shadow (1st Corinthians. 10:4-7), a visible representation of this true Israel of God, Christ. It represented the body of Christ, the firstborn of God in Him. Indeed, the nation was also called the firstfruits because Christ is the Firstfruit. The nation was called the Chosen because Christ is the Chosen. The nation was called sons because Christ is the Son. In other words, it is only in Him that these titles come to fruition. Inheritance isn't by fleshly birthright, but the birthright that comes from being born again in Jesus. He is the firstborn from the dead.

Certainly, none of these things were mere coincidence, they're God-breathed prophecy and testimony to the mystery of God, and to the truth. Israel was 'typed' as the son because they represented those who would be born from above in the Son. Through Him they/we become children of God. In Him have they become true sons of God. All true believers, no matter what nation (Hosea 1:10) they may come from, are sons and children of Israel. The external or corporate congregation signified the true Israel wherein true Salvation would be found.

Hos 11:1
(1) When Israel was a child, then I loved him, and called my son out of Egypt.

Again, compare that verse with Scriptures which clearly speak of the Child Jesus Christ going into Egypt. We begin to see God's 'Clear' declaration that this was the fulfillment (completion) of that Scripture regarding Israel and Egypt. Speaking of Christ, we read:

Mat 2:15
(15) And was there until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son.

Christ was indeed the true Son Israel, called out of Egypt. Israel, the nation being called out of Egypt merely prefigured Him.

Hello?!

So you believe Jesus a liar then. OKAY!

Matthew 16:18
And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

It is the future active insdiciative- meaning it has not yet started to be built!

Jesus was a very careful speaker unlike us. He used words He meant to use.

Notice He did not say--Will contue or keep building or have been building,. But He did say I will build

You are being ridiculous. You have not considered everything in Scripture carefully.

The "church" is a spiritual congregation of Israel from Abel to the Last Elect. First with the Old Testament with Israel as a representation. Then the New Testament with the Church as representation. I have explained on another thread that the Old Testament congregation lost their kingdom representation when she fell at the Cross, and Christ rebuilt it in three days as it written! This is the church that Christ told Peter that He will rebuild upon where He is now a chief cornerstone of that building and where we are working on as the builders of the New Testament congregation! It is just a continuation of the congregation of Israel from the Old to the New that even some Jews in the New Testament can graft back in when they hear the gospel!

 

[MatthewG]

I don’t think we know the exact pinpoint, of where the temple was exactly.

 

[Keraz]

Keras, the cleaning up is for burial of the dead bodies. The Jews will bury the dead bodies for 7 months.

Talking with someone who shows a failure to read and understand the Prophesies, is a waste of my time. The Jews will not be there. It is the Christian people who Gog will attack. WE will bury the corpses and clean up the debris of his army.
We Christians will build the new Temple and dedicate it to God. Satan will desecrate it, as Prophesied in 2 Thess 2:4.

You butcher grammar to read that into Galatians 6 It is grammatically erroneous and impossible to call the church Israel from Galatians 6. God is the author of Grammar.

Just the word; Israel, which means an Overcomer for God, is enough to show it properly applies to Christians, not to apostate and Jesus hating peoples.
Like Douggg, you fail to see the many Prophesies that tell us the Jews will soon be Judged and punished and only a remnant will survive.

You quote Zechariah 13:8-9, Two thirds will be struck down and the one third who remain must pass thru fire and be refined, with the dross removed, So you have made a false statement in saying that third are saved. Isaiah 6:11-13, Isiah 29:1-4, Romans 9:27, all say that only a few Jews will survive.

 

[covenantee]

insdiciative

From Mr. Grammar himself.

 

[covenantee]

If you can refute my position biblically and honestly. So far you have not


Sigh...

God did NOT make everlasting promises to the "ethnic people" of Israel. He made it with "His People", congregation Israel -- including all people in Christ from the Old Testament and the New Testament.


Jewish culture? No prophecy according to the WORD of GOD. Not according to Jewish culture, Roman culture, or American culture. Selah!



You need to read again carefully and surrender to God's Word for who Jesus Christ is - the Israel of God. As it is written:

Exo 4:22
(22) And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the LORD, Israel is my son, even my firstborn:

The nation Israel was the 'type' that represented Christ, the firstborn Son of God, wherein the true children of Israel would be delivered from bondage. The nation was called God's firstborn only because it was a shadow (1st Corinthians. 10:4-7), a visible representation of this true Israel of God, Christ. It represented the body of Christ, the firstborn of God in Him. Indeed, the nation was also called the firstfruits because Christ is the Firstfruit. The nation was called the Chosen because Christ is the Chosen. The nation was called sons because Christ is the Son. In other words, it is only in Him that these titles come to fruition. Inheritance isn't by fleshly birthright, but the birthright that comes from being born again in Jesus. He is the firstborn from the dead.

Certainly, none of these things were mere coincidence, they're God-breathed prophecy and testimony to the mystery of God, and to the truth. Israel was 'typed' as the son because they represented those who would be born from above in the Son. Through Him they/we become children of God. In Him have they become true sons of God. All true believers, no matter what nation (Hosea 1:10) they may come from, are sons and children of Israel. The external or corporate congregation signified the true Israel wherein true Salvation would be found.

Hos 11:1
(1) When Israel was a child, then I loved him, and called my son out of Egypt.

Again, compare that verse with Scriptures which clearly speak of the Child Jesus Christ going into Egypt. We begin to see God's 'Clear' declaration that this was the fulfillment (completion) of that Scripture regarding Israel and Egypt. Speaking of Christ, we read:

Mat 2:15
(15) And was there until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son.

Christ was indeed the true Son Israel, called out of Egypt. Israel, the nation being called out of Egypt merely prefigured Him.

Hello?!




You are being ridiculous. You have not considered everything in Scripture carefully.

The "church" is a spiritual congregation of Israel from Abel to the Last Elect. First with the Old Testament with Israel as a representation. Then the New Testament with the Church as representation. I have explained on another thread that the Old Testament congregation lost their kingdom representation when she fell at the Cross, and Christ rebuilt it in three days as it written! This is the church that Christ told Peter that He will rebuild upon where He is now a chief cornerstone of that building and where we are working on as the builders of the New Testament congregation! It is just a continuation of the congregation of Israel from the Old to the New that even some Jews in the New Testament can graft back in when they hear the gospel!

The man is the quintessential dispensational racist, utterly bereft of spiritual discernment.

The Pharisees would have loved him then.

Israel's antichrists love him today.

 

[TribulationSigns]

The man is the quintessential dispensational racist, utterly bereft of spiritual discernment.

The Pharisees would have loved him then.

Israel's antichrists love him today.

Man who?

 

[Douggg]

You quote Zechariah 13:8-9, Two thirds will be struck down and the one third who remain must pass thru fire and be refined, with the dross removed, So you have made a false statement in saying that third are saved. Isaiah 6:11-13, Isiah 29:1-4, Romans 9:27, all say that only a few Jews will survive.

Keras, I thought you claimed the Jews would not be in Israel, but Christians from all around the world. So how is Zechariah 13:8-9 supposed to be fulfilled if there will not be any Jews around ?