Why was "the Tree" placed in the center of the garden (orchard)

[GodsGrace]

I've provided as many Spiritual lessons surrounding the first pair and yet they deny every single lesson. I've never witnessed such wholesale denial from a group of believers in my life. I get they must tow the party line, but to be shown such depth of wisdom from the Word and reject it it like they do, is staggering. I've been on ignore for some time with Aunty Jane who appears to be the more proficient at explaining their teachings. What I find sad is their wrote learning, you can see their scripted responses which means they have been taught without understanding. There must be about 5 threads with many of unanswered questions and they just won't enter the Word of God. They will judge it, but not enter it.

If you can ask your JW friend I would be curious what they say A&E's nature was thanks

F2F

She comes here on vacation from No. Carolina.
I'll be seeing her in late Sept, early Oct.
How about sending me a PM and reminding me??
I'm sure she'll just LOVE telling me all about it !

I too have found that it's useless to discuss.
I used to do this for those reading along but I'm becoming tired.
It's really not acceptable how a person could consider themselves to be Christian
and deny every Christian doctrine.
They don't even believe Jesus literally rose from the dead.

I see your posts to her/them at times...I admire your stamina!

 

[Aunty Jane]

I'd be very interested to know what Aunty Jane believes concerning Adams nature. I havn't been able to get this out of any of the JW's on this site. They say they wer perfect (like the angels) yet they cannot say they were immortal / eternal beings....so what nature did they have? Curious?

Hmmm.....”curious”? Human nature comes to mind....
Understanding the difference between “everlasting life” and “immortality” would be a good place to start, if you are genuinely curious?

The humans were created “mortal” physical creatures....i.e. needing external life support...food, water, oxygen....which were provided in abundance by the Creator, so that their lives would be constantly sustained. Death was not mentioned to Adam except as a penalty for disobedience, but their lives could also be sustained indefinitely by the addition of “the tree of life”. Access to this tree was not denied until after sin entered into the world through the decision made by Adam. (Rom 5:12 ; Gen 3:22-24)

Sin did not come through the woman but was laid squarely at the feet of the man....why? Because she was deceived, but he was not. Had he refused to eat the fruit she offered, we would not be in the mess we are in right now....sickness, old age and death would not be a part of our existence. God would have dealt with the situation very differently.

The fact that the death penalty existed, meant that they did not possess “immortal” life. It was life that could be continually extended....called “everlasting life” as opposed to “immortality” which means that an immortal cannot die.......as long as they were obedient, there was no natural cause of death mentioned. And death meant death...the removal of life from that person, as God told Adam. (3:19)

Even in the spirit realm, the creatures that exist there are not immortals either. Even though they have no external life support that we know of, their continued existence is also dependent on obedience to their Creator. Why would God risk having free willed children whom he could not control, or remove, if they abused that privilege? Angels we know are creatures with great power....as the Bible demonstrates. Look what satan has managed to do to this world....(1 John 5:19)

Since both humans and angels can experience death, it means that they are not “immortal”. Deliberate rebels, abusing their free will, can be put out of existence.

Hope that answers the question.....

 

[GodsGrace]

@face2face

Hi F2F,
Please see post 203 by Auntie Jane.
I agree with almost all she's stated.

Everlasting life means that life will end here on earth and continue in heaven.
Immortal means that it will have no end in its present form.

I disagree with the fact that Adam and Eve were not immortal...
One of the preternatural gifts they had was immortality, which they gave up when Adam ate.

Some theologians would agree with AJ that they had to keep extending their life by eating of
the Tree of Life, which is why they were banished from the Garden and Cherubim were placed at the
entrance to prohibit re-entrance - for fear that they'd eat from the Tree of Life and live forever in a sinful,
decaying state. Pretty horrible.

I agree with my first assessment ... they had immortality and lost it.

 

[Aunty Jane]

It's really not acceptable how a person could consider themselves to be Christian
and deny every Christian doctrine.
They don't even believe Jesus literally rose from the dead.

Good grief...more erroneous opinions? Try listening next time your “acquaintance” visits.
If you have gained such information from any JW I would be surprised. You can’t hear with your fingers in your ears....

We accept “Christian” doctrine but not “church” doctrine.....there is a vast difference. A little study will furnish the difference....not many are willing to put in the effort....just happy to be spoon fed what is easy.

We do accept that Jesus literally rose from the dead.....no one can dispute that.....but “how” he rose...in what “form” and “who” raised him, are clearly stated in the Bible....none of which are accepted in Christendom.

Some theologians would agree with AJ that they had to keep extending their life by eating of
the Tree of Life, which is why they were banished from the Garden and Cherubim were placed at the
entrance to prohibit re-entrance - for fear that they'd eat from the Tree of Life and live forever in a sinful,
decaying state. Pretty horrible.

I agree with my first assessment ... they had immortality and lost it.

There was no other reason to deny access to “the tree of life”, other than to prevent the now sinful humans from living forever....imagine all the despots down through history if they never died...!

Immortality means “the power of an indestructible life”.....an immortal cannot die. If they were immortal, then the death penalty was a lie.

Happy to dispel whatever errors you are fond of promoting.....

 

[face2face]

Hmmm.....”curious”? Human nature comes to mind....
Understanding the difference between “everlasting life” and “immortality” would be a good place to start, if you are genuinely curious?

One is qualitive while the other is quantitative.

The humans were created “mortal” physical creatures....i.e. needing external life support...food, water, oxygen....which were provided in abundance by the Creator, so that their lives would be constantly sustained. Death was not mentioned to Adam except as a penalty for disobedience, but their lives could also be sustained indefinitely by the addition of “the tree of life”.

So you believe the tree could not provide immortality / everlasting life if the ceased from eating its fruit?

Access to this tree was not denied until after sin entered into the world through the decision made by Adam. (Rom 5:12 ; Gen 3:22-24)

True.

Sin did not come through the woman but was laid squarely at the feet of the man....why? Because she was deceived, but he was not. Had he refused to eat the fruit she offered, we would not be in the mess we are in right now....sickness, old age and death would not be a part of our existence. God would have dealt with the situation very differently.

How would Adam & Eve attain divine nature? If your hope is to become like the Angels how through obedience alone could they attain that nature?

Keep in mind Angels do not procreate.

I'm trying to get you to understand God's plan allowed for sin and death. He is not responsible for sin only that He understood it would enter his Creation and from it He would draw many to Himself as children.

The fact that the death penalty existed, meant that they did not possess “immortal” life.

Whew!

It was life that could be continually extended....called “everlasting life” as opposed to “immortality” which means that an immortal cannot die.......as long as they were obedient, there was no natural cause of death mentioned. And death meant death...the removal of life from that person, as God told Adam. (3:19)

Immortality and Everlasting life speak to the same - immortality is put on and results in one living forever.

Even in the spirit realm, the creatures that exist there are not immortals either.

Now you lose yourself in your JW doctrine.

Angels cannot die or sin - God's Divine nature is Holy, Eternal and They behold His Face.

If you believe angels sin then by decree they must die! Romans 6:23 wages of sin is death!

You will note God and the angels cannot allow sinful man to eat of the tree in a sinful state for this very reason.

Jane, imagine believing your reward is marred by the prospect of sin as a Saint?

To go through the probation of life only to be given immortality and still have free will to choose evil.

It reveals to me you do not understand the Spirit of God and His Holiness.

It's why no flesh can glory in His Presense - He cannot look upon sin but you would have an Holy Angel sin?

Wow, consider the ramifications of that for a moment.

Even though they have no external life support that we know of, their continued existence is also dependent on obedience to their Creator. Why would God risk having free willed children whom he could not control, or remove, if they abused that privilege? Angels we know are creatures with great power....as the Bible demonstrates. Look what satan has managed to do to this world....(1 John 5:19)

Since both humans and angels can experience death,

for they cannot die anymore, because they are equal to angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection. Luke 20:36

Angels cannot sin or die because they are Gods Ministering Spirits and always do his pleasure.

Sin comes from flesh (carnal mind = double mindedness) Angels cannot and do not have double mindedness because they do not have sins flesh. James 1; Hebrews 2; Romans 8 etc etc

it means that they are not “immortal”. Deliberate rebels, abusing their free will, can be put out of existence.

Hope that answers the question.....

I recommend you study the theme of angels in the Bible, as this will help with your compromised reward, and the propsect of still sinning as a redeemed Saint.

F2F

 

[GodsGrace]

Good grief...more erroneous opinions? Try listening next time your “acquaintance” visits.
If you have gained such information from any JW I would be surprised. You can’t hear with your fingers in your ears....

We accept “Christian” doctrine but not “church” doctrine.....there is a vast difference. A little study will furnish the difference....not many are willing to put in the effort....just happy to be spoon fed what is easy.

We do accept that Jesus literally rose from the dead.....no one can dispute that.....but “how” he rose...in what “form” and “who” raised him, are clearly stated in the Bible....none of which are accepted in Christendom.


There was no other reason to deny access to “the tree of life”, other than to prevent the now sinful humans from living forever....imagine all the despots down through history if they never died...!

Immortality means “the power of an indestructible life”.....an immortal cannot die. If they were immortal, then the death penalty was a lie.

Happy to dispel whatever errors you are fond of promoting.....

Learn about the preternatural gifts.
Only if you want to learn something new, of course.
Doesn't look like it.

 

[face2face]

@Aunty Jane

Here is the issue Jane...Jehovah is spirit (John 4:24), and His angels are spirit beings (Psalm 104:4; Heb. 1:7).

What becomes of His Spirit if 1. It can sin 2. It becomes evil 3. it can die

Earth, flesh and blood is the realm of sin, not Heaven or any part thereof.

Where you derive your understanding of angels sinning is not what you think it is.

F2F

 

[face2face]

@Aunty Jane

I dont ask this in a derogative manner..but is your God double minded? Is your Christ double minded? Are the Angels double minded?

If you say no to the first two questions, you must say no to the 3rd, as they exist by the same Spirit.

For that person must not suppose that he will receive anything from the Lord, 1:8 since he is a double-minded individual, unstable in all his ways. James 1:7–8.

Two minded!

Angels cannot have two minds from a single Spirit nature.

Which is why they cannot sin or die.

F2F

 

[Aunty Jane]

I have to go now but will return later to respond to these posts.....til then....

 

[TheHC]

God placed a consequence there, as He knew flesh made of dust could not obey from the heart, and inevitably the first pair would sin.

What?! I thought you knew the Scriptures?

Jesus did. Perfectly, under difficult trials. (We have the account in Luke 4 that Satan himself even tried. But he didn’t stop with one try…. Luke 4:13, “…until another convenient time.”)

Dust was always going to return to dust.

Then tell me, why did Adam — and his descendants, up to 9 generations later (Noah) - live into their 900’s?

 

[Aunty Jane]

Learn about the preternatural gifts.
Only if you want to learn something new, of course.
Doesn't look like it.

What do I have to learn from the Catholic church???????
They do not teach “Christianity”....they invented their own false doctrines....not one of them is biblical in origin.
See post #163....

 

[TheHC]

They say they wer perfect (like the angels) yet they [JW’s] cannot say they were immortal / eternal beings

You answered your own question! You said “like the angels”!

Are the angels immortal? No they’re not, they can be killed. (The Scriptures even tell us that the disobedient angels (demons) will be destroyed.)
But angels can live forever, if the ones who are faithful, stay faithful.

I’m amazed you didn’t know this.

Being granted everlasting life, ie., the ability to live forever, is in no way linked to immortality.

 

[TheHC]

If you believe angels sin…

The Bible says this. 2 Peter 2:4. Peter is referencing the “sons of the true God” in Genesis 6:1-4… which Jude also does, vs.6

…then by decree they must die

And they will, at Jehovah’s appointed time.

 

[Aunty Jane]

One is qualitive while the other is quantitative.

They are two completely different expressions of life...the mortal one is earthly, and the heavenly one is granted only by God to spirit beings whom he transforms at their resurrection. The elect are God’s “chosen ones” selected by God from the earth, who will rule with Christ in his kingdom, already tried and tested till their death. They have nothing more to prove.

Angels are spirit beings but because God can destroy them, they are not immortal.
Satan was a once perfect spirit creature who got carried away by his own magnificence and decided he wanted to be worshipped too, but his fellow angels, being his equal in power, would not view him as a god...only those of lower status could do that, so the humans fitted his agenda nicely. He plotted to separate them from God by disobedience....tempting them to abuse their free will.

So you believe the tree could not provide immortality / everlasting life if the ceased from eating its fruit?

It was there to partake of so that life would not end.....without sin, there could be no death, so their physical perfection and that being coupled with access to the tree of life, guaranteed that could live forever in mortal flesh....where do you get the idea that flesh is inherently sinful......? It was not designed to be, and neither were our natural expectations that life would not end.....God put eternity in man’s heart because that is how long we were supposed to live....in paradise on earth...forever.

How would Adam & Eve attain divine nature?

Where does it say that they would “attain divine nature”...? They were created in God’s image and likeness....how much more divine do you need them to be? Their purpose here on planet Earth was clearly stated.....they were to be caretakers of all that God created here. He gave them complete dominion over the earth and over the animal kingdom.....but not over each other. They would take their orders from God who would always be their Sovereign Ruler. He would keep a knowledge of evil to himself so that it never touched them....unless they chose of their own free will, to go there.

If your hope is to become like the Angels how through obedience alone could they attain that nature?

Good grief! Where do you get these whacked out ideas? Certainly not from the Bible.
Who said we had to become like angels? They are a completely different creation to us....yet they too are subject to their Creator. They are spirit creatures who dwell in the spirit realm where God resides. Only spirit beings can exist there. Those of the elect will be their superiors....judging them.... (1 Cor 6:3)....why judge angels if they cannot sin?

Keep in mind Angels do not procreate.

What has that got to do with anything?

I'm trying to get you to understand God's plan allowed for sin and death. He is not responsible for sin only that He understood it would enter his Creation and from it He would draw many to Himself as children.

It was not inevitable that the humans would sin, but being free willed, God had contingency plans in place for any eventuality. The Edenic scenario could have played out very differently, if other choices were made by the three rebels. Nothing was predestined. God responded to their choices....and we know what happened. God used it as the greatest object lesson in man’s history. It would set precedents for all time to come.

They could not be TOLD what disobedience would lead to...they had to be SHOWN in all its horrible outcomes.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Immortality and Everlasting life speak to the same - immortality is put on and results in one living forever.

Immortality is “put on” but only by those who are heaven bound. Not all humans were promised heaven as it was never going to be the home of the human race. Some were chosen for a special purpose to rule redeemed mankind and bring them back to God.......this is the whole reason why Christ came...to give us back, what Adam took away from his children.
Mere mortals cannot exist in the spirit realm......so God will “transform” these former humans into spirit creatures, so as to exist in that realm....in the presence of God.

Now you lose yourself in your JW doctrine.

Angels cannot die or sin - God's Divine nature is Holy, Eternal and They behold His Face.

Nonsense. Where do you think satan came from? They are free willed beings too, as capable of disobeying God as we are. He did not create his children as robots who had no choice in anything....free will is a precious gift, but abusing it, turns it into a curse, as we can plainly see.

If you believe angels sin then by decree they must die! Romans 6:23 wages of sin is death!

You got it...those angels who chose to defect with Satan are now called demons.....they were once faithful angels, but followed the devil into sin and it consequences will be for them in “the lake of fire”...eternal death.

You will note God and the angels cannot allow sinful man to eat of the tree in a sinful state for this very reason.

What? God posted cherubs at the entrance to the garden to make sure no human re-entered the garden to take fruit from “the tree of life and live forever”...(Gen 3:22-24)
Cherubs are by rank the guardians in God’s arrangement.

Jane, imagine believing your reward is marred by the prospect of sin as a Saint?

What ????? Again, where does this come from?
Once the saints are in heaven, they have already proven faithful to their death, so they inherit the crown of life. They are then given immortality......a saint cannot ever therefore be a sinner....but they are not a saint unless God chooses them, and rewards them with a heavenly resurrection after a faithful course....that resurrection occurs “first”. (Rev 20:6)

To go through the probation of life only to be given immortality and still have free will to choose evil.

It reveals to me you do not understand the Spirit of God and His Holiness.

Where have we ever said this???? You have it all completely scrambled....no wonder there are few others with your beliefs.....they are certainly NOT from the Bible.

It's why no flesh can glory in His Presense - He cannot look upon sin but you would have an Holy Angel sin?

Wow, consider the ramifications of that for a moment.

I don’t have to consider the ramblings of someone who has fantasy as their truth.....nothing you say has any reference to what the Bible says....it’s your particular spin on it.....surely no one else believes what you believe?

for they cannot die anymore, because they are equal to angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection. Luke 20:36

Yes, those resurrected to heaven are immortals who cannot die. Those resurrected to life on earth will also never need to die again because Christ has paid the price of their redemption so that all can return to the way it was meant to be......everlasting life can be restored to the human race.

Angels cannot sin or die because they are Gods Ministering Spirits and always do his pleasure.

The faithful ones do for sure...the unfaithful ones will join other unfaithful ones in the lake of fire....”the second death”....a death from which no one returns.

Sin comes from flesh (carnal mind = double mindedness) Angels cannot and do not have double mindedness because they do not have sins flesh. James 1; Hebrews 2; Romans 8 etc etc

Sin is anything that is against God’s law. Angels can sin, just like humans because we all have free will.
The sin in the flesh that we inherited from Adam was not of our doing....this is why we are rescued from the penalty by Jesus sacrifice....he died instead of us....the angels have no excuse, as each one fell into the sin of disobedience like Adam....who had no sin nature to blame for his decision.....they have no sin nature to blame either.

You just have such a scrambled view of everything.....

 

[face2face]

What?! I thought you knew the Scriptures?

HC come down from your lofty granduers...you still have 5 threads and so many questions unanswered! Maybe go over to them and take a look at Genesis 3 lol. If you want me to send you a Bible or a link to one let me know!

Jesus did. Perfectly, under difficult trials. (We have the account in Luke 4 that Satan himself even tried. But he didn’t stop with one try…. Luke 4:13, “…until another convenient time.”)

Then tell me, why did Adam — and his descendants, up to 9 generations later (Noah) - live into their 900’s?

Are you implying Adam didn't return to dust HC?

 

[face2face]

You answered your own question! You said “like the angels”!

Are the angels immortal? No they’re not, they can be killed. (The Scriptures even tell us that the disobedient angels (demons) will be destroyed.)

Have you lost the plot HC? - Angels can be killed The Elohim of Yahweh His Mighty Ones Killed

You JW's havn't a clue about the Spirit of God, or His Ministering Spirits.

Your brains have been infected by mythological creatures conjured up in the minds of pagans you can't think straight!

Look HC, go away for a long time and study Angels, who and what they are, and don't force your false dogma on the text.

You were so unconvinced by you above post you couldnt even support it with Scripture.

I know what you will do? off to Revelation, and pretend you think you know something, when you clearly don't

F2F

 

[face2face]

The Bible says this. 2 Peter 2:4. Peter is referencing the “sons of the true God” in Genesis 6:1-4… which Jude also does, vs.6


And they will, at Jehovah’s appointed time.

HC, we have many times shown you don't understand those Scriptures.

It's plain to see what you want them to mean but God's Spirit cannot be Evil - impossible.

If angels sin then they must have sins flesh and they don't, they have God's Spirit.

Now if you went to 2 Peter 2:4 and showed how which messengers sinned we could have something meaningful to discuss.

2:4 For if God did not spare the angels (messengers) who sinned, but threw them into hell and locked them up in chains in utter darkness, to be kept until the judgment, 2 Pe 2:4.

Who is locked up in the grave awaiting judgement HC?

Think about it!

Count how many OT stories are in that section of text.

I'll wait for your answer

F2F

 

[TheHC]

Are you implying Adam didn't return to dust HC?

He did, only because he sinned.
He made a choice — the wrong one

 

[face2face]

They are two completely different expressions of life...the mortal one is earthly, and the heavenly one is granted only by God to spirit beings whom he transforms at their resurrection.

Who you believe will still be subject to sin and death - your words, not mine!

The elect are God’s “chosen ones” selected by God from the earth, who will rule with Christ in his kingdom, already tried and tested till their death. They have nothing more to prove.

If they are going to be like unto the angels then temptation, sin and death awaits them - your words, not mine!

Angels are spirit beings but because God can destroy them, they are not immortal.

This above, is a foolish unlearned comment!

For when they (Saints) rise from the dead, they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven. Mark 12:25

for they (Saints) cannot die anymore, because they are equal to angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection. Luke 20:36

Fact Check

Saints will be like the angels in nature (Spirit Beings)
Saints will not be able to sin, or die, like the angels
Saints will be equal to the angels and sons of God

Wouldnt it be nice to see such concise quotes from you Jane?

Satan was a once perfect spirit creature who got carried away by his own magnificence and decided he wanted to be worshipped too, but his fellow angels, being his equal in power, would not view him as a god...only those of lower status could do that, so the humans fitted his agenda nicely. He plotted to separate them from God by disobedience....tempting them to abuse their free will.

What adversary are you refencing?
What is the nature of this adversary?

Quote please!

It was there to partake of so that life would not end.....without sin, there could be no death, so their physical perfection and that being coupled with access to the tree of life, guaranteed that could live forever in mortal flesh....where do you get the idea that flesh is inherently sinful......?

Quote please.

It was not designed to be, and neither were our natural expectations that life would not end.....God put eternity in man’s heart because that is how long we were supposed to live....in paradise on earth...forever.

God made them of dust Jane, dust!

For he knows our frame; he remembers that we are dust. Psalm 103:14

Do you truely believe God made A&E eternal dust?

Your so blinded by your own doctrines and judgements you can't see clearly on this.

Also, the eternity set in hearts is the longing to be eternal beings not earthy creatures in a garden!

Here is the irony Jane

You have the beginning of the Bible Story wrong, and the end also, what hope is there for you to understand everything inbetween?

If you can't discern the angels what can you discern?

Where does it say that they would “attain divine nature”...?

For someone who professes to have ALL the answers, you sure know how to dissapoint in your replies.

by which he has granted to us (Saints) his precious and very great promises, so that through them you may become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped from the corruption that is in the world because of sinful desire. 2 Peter 1:4

@TheHC @Keiw @Mark51

Can you see Aunty Janes false teaching?

Jane has the angels who share in His Divine Nature, sinning and being killed
Jesus states the angels cannot and do not die, therefore cannot sin!
Peter states the hope & promise of the Saints is to share in God's Divine nature (clear as day!)
Paul also states the same in 1 Cor 15

What are they escaping from Jane?

A corupt nature (dust) which sins!

Angels don't have a sin nature, for if they did, God is double minded!

I will say it again, just in case you didnt get it the first time - Angels do not have sin nature and are not double minded beings - they exist in Divine Spirit Nature and its the same nature promised to the saints, WHO will no longer be subject to sin and death.

Crazy Jane - the whole story is about God swallowing up death and you want to bring that death to His Holy Angels

The gap in your knowledge is with you and not the Word of God.

They were created in God’s image and likeness....

Correct...not in nature but in moral propensity.

how much more divine do you need them to be?

LOL Jane are you kidding me? Are you trolling this thread? I mean it Jane, your ignorance is now overwhelming that you think Dust creatures who are given the ability to morally comprehend the Spirit, is God's Plan for Divine natured Children?

You really believe God wanted an earth full of creatures who would be consumed by His presence?

They are dust - corruptible dust - weak and dirty formed from physical earth - how esle can I describe the fraility of that and you think that was Gods Plan?

It's so unreasonble I'm honestly struggling to comprehend your lack of understanding on this.

Even Paul in Corinthains calls them earthy, of the earth!

Good grief! Where do you get these whacked out ideas? Certainly not from the Bible.
Who said we had to become like angels?

Ah.... The Lord Jesus Christ - I apologise Jane, I thought you had a lot more understanding of the Scripture. Someone did a number on you and you are still under thier influence clearly.

They are a completely different creation to us....yet they too are subject to their Creator.

If you can't accept the Lords words how will you accept mine?

They are spirit creatures who dwell in the spirit realm where God resides. Only spirit beings can exist there.

Whose Spirit Jane? Holy, Divine, Pure Singel minded beings who only ever do the Lords will?

You should go and read the Lords prayer! Wow, even this is unknown to you

Those of the elect will be their superiors....judging them.... (1 Cor 6:3)....why judge angels if they cannot sin?

Do you not know that we will judge angels? Why not ordinary matters! 1 Co 6:3.

What do you think that is saying in that context Jane?

It was not inevitable that the humans would sin, but being free willed, God had contingency plans in place for any eventuality.

Wow you do believe the Lord was plan B - well at least you are honest

The Edenic scenario could have played out very differently,

No it couldn't...and you know this to be true but your JW doctrine causes you to refrain.

if other choices were made by the three rebels. Nothing was predestined. God responded to their choices....and we know what happened. God used it as the greatest object lesson in man’s history. It would set precedents for all time to come.

They could not be TOLD what disobedience would lead to...they had to be SHOWN in all its horrible outcomes.

Nothing to compare it to Jane - that's the point of coming to a knowledge of Good and Evil. They were naive immature children who were tested and failed.

Like your teaching in this discussion -

F2F