CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
Maybe think of a human being made, in their image, with a body, mind and life force. You need all three to exist as one.
Why the trinity?
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Maybe think of a human being made, in their image, with a body, mind and life force. You need all three to exist as one.
@Heart2Soul All three glorious Persons are God, with plenty of Scripture backing.
101G
Well-Known Member
thanks for the reply. but do your body have a mind of it's own? ... or should I rephrase that....
or do your body have a separate soul? no of couese not. understand God have a "soul", one, not three. but any way, you said something that I have being saying for a long time. you said,
well that's the IMAGE of God, meaning "ANOTHER" of oneself. let me explain.... what do the term "Adam" means? according to the Mickelson's Enhanced Strong's Dictionaries of the Greek and Hebrew Testaments, ADAM/MAN is the Hebrew word,
H120 אָדָם 'adam (aw-dawm') n-m.
ruddy i.e. a human being (an individual or the species, mankind, etc.).
[from H119]
KJV: X another, + hypocrite, + common sort, X low, man (mean, of low degree), person.
see how Adam can also be translated as... "ANOTHER". what do I mean. EVE, the woman is "Another" of the man, an "ADAM", Adam means ... "ANOTHER" of himself. for the woman was taken out of the man. hence the term in the Greek, G 243 Allos, which according to the Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words, Allos expresses a numerical difference and denotes another of the same sort. what do numerical difference means? 1 .... 2 another but watch of one ownself. that's what is ment by "same sort".
see Eve is the G243 allos of Adam the man.... "ANOTHER" man from ONE man, the same sort.
just as the Lord Jesus is "ANOTHER" of himself in flesh, (God in flesh). that's the numerical difference or the plurility of the Godhead as ONE PERSON. for to be "ANOTHER" of oneself is to be the numerical difference of one's ownself. meaning just as Eve, the woman is the "EQUAL" with the Man Adam. BINGO.
the key to understanding God in the flesh is to understand God's creation...... MAN, Romans 1:19 "Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them."
Romans 1:20 "For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:"
so what was Made so that we could understand God and his Godhead? answer... his OWN IMAGE... MAN, the ANOTHER of one's ownself.
PICJAG.
I dont know anywhere in the gospel where there is discussion about worshipping Jesus though....do you have any passages in mind that show people worshiping him?
farouk thankyou for that...
The way the early church fathers understood and explained the verses which are often used to prove the trinity are very interesting. They show the early christians did not hold the view that Jesus was God.
For example, “I and the Father are one.” John 10:30
Novatian (c. 200-258 C.E.) commented about this verse in Treatise Concerning the Trinity, chapter 27
He wrote: “Since He said ‘one’ thing, let the heretics understand that He did not say ‘one’ person. For one placed in the neuter, intimates the social concord, not the personal unity. . . . Moreover, that He says one, has reference to the agreement, and to the identity of judgment, and to the loving association itself, as reasonably the Father and Son are one in agreement, in love, and in affection.”
I'm going to pull up many more of these early church fathers quotes because they predate the trinity teaching...it only became part of the church's teachings in the 4th century...which means Jesus nor his apostles were not teaching.
totally agree with you there... and yes i've only used that one verse in this discussion. But that verse popped out to me when i was reading it because it seemed strange that the angel would not tell John to worship Jesus.
thanks Angelina for your reply,
Not all translations render the verse in this way "Your throne, O God, is forever..." some translate it as “God, your God, anointed you.”
The reason is because Paul is a quoting the passage from the Psalms 45 which reads:
God is your throne forever and ever;
The scepter of your kingdom is a scepter of uprightness.
7 You loved righteousness, and you hated wickedness.
That is why God, your God, has anointed you with the oil of exultation more than your companions.
In the psalms it is in reference to the king of Isreal and no one assumes the writer is calling the King of Isreal God.
Thats why some translators use the alternate rendering in Hebrews as the following statement shows:
B. F. Westcott said: “It is scarcely possible that אלוהים [‘Elo·himʹ, “God”] in the original can be addressed to the king. . . . Thus on the whole it seems best to adopt in the first clause the rendering: God is Thy throne (or, Thy throne is God), that is ‘Thy kingdom is founded upon God.’”
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CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
thanks for the reply. but do your body have a mind of it's own? ... or should I rephrase that....
Your body has a brain. If you become brain-dead, your mind stops working, and your life force also leaves.
CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
thanks for the reply. but do your body have a mind of it's own? ... or should I rephrase that....
but any way, you said something that I have being saying for a long time. you said,
well that's the IMAGE of God, meaning "ANOTHER" of oneself. let me explain.... what do the term "Adam" means? according to the Mickelson's Enhanced Strong's Dictionaries of the Greek and Hebrew Testaments, ADAM/MAN is the Hebrew word,
H120 אָדָם 'adam (aw-dawm') n-m.
ruddy i.e. a human being (an individual or the species, mankind, etc.).
[from H119]
KJV: X another, + hypocrite, + common sort, X low, man (mean, of low degree), person.
see how Adam can also be translated as... "ANOTHER". what do I mean. EVE, the woman is "Another" of the man, an "ADAM", Adam means ... "ANOTHER" of himself. for the woman was taken out of the man. hence the term in the Greek, G 243 Allos, which according to the Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words, Allos expresses a numerical difference and denotes another of the same sort. what do numerical difference means? 1 .... 2 another but watch of one ownself. that's what is ment by "same sort".
see Eve is the G243 allos of Adam the man.... "ANOTHER" man from ONE man, the same sort.
just as the Lord Jesus is "ANOTHER" of himself in flesh, (God in flesh). that's the numerical difference or the plurility of the Godhead as ONE PERSON. for to be "ANOTHER" of oneself is to be the numerical difference of one's ownself. meaning just as Eve, the woman is the "EQUAL" with the Man Adam. BINGO.
the key to understanding God in the flesh is to understand God's creation...... MAN, Romans 1:19 "Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them."
Romans 1:20 "For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:"
so what was Made so that we could understand God and his Godhead? answer... his OWN IMAGE... MAN, the ANOTHER of one's ownself.
PICJAG.
God formed Adam from dirt - body. Then God breathed into him the breath of life - Spirit, and man became a living soul - mind.
this is a good verse which certainly on the surface, but (and there is always a but lol) its a translation issue.
the word 'worship' is used in the old english bibles such as the KJV...but the greek word used in the manuscript is pro·sky·neʹo.
About this word the Unger’s Bible Dictionary says it literally means to ‘kiss the hand of someone in token of reverence or to do homage.’
So, we are to 'proskyneo' Jesus... we are to 'kiss the hand of Jesus' or 'pay him reverence'
An Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words, by W. E. Vine, says that this word “denotes an act of reverence, whether paid to man . . . or to God.”
If you look at some more modern translations, you'll see that the verse is rendered to more accurately reflect the paying homage to Jesus rather then worshiping him...and we absolutely should pay him the honor he deserves. He is the king of Gods kingdom and the one to whom we owe our lives for the reason that he redeemed us from sin and death. We certainly do bend our knee to him, but we must also direct our worship to the one true God.
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totally agree with you! Jesus is certainly the only door thru whom we may worship the Father. And thats why it confuses me as to why people worship Jesus.
hi Charity,
Yes i agree that the work of father, son and holy spirit is most certainly well attested to in scripture.
I've considered how the early church describe these three and what they are in being and it isnt the same as what the churches teach.
for example,
“The Father is greater than I am.”—JOHN 14:28.
Irenaeus (c. 130-200 C.E.): “We may learn through Him [Christ] that the Father is above all things. For ‘the Father,’ says He, ‘is greater than I.’ The Father, therefore, has been declared by our Lord to excel with respect to knowledge.”—Against Heresies, Book II, chapter 28.8.
Irenaeus: “And thus one God the Father is declared, who is above all, and through all, and in all. The Father is indeed above all, and He is the Head of Christ.”—Against Heresies, Book V, chapter 18.2.
the original christian church did not hold to the idea that Jesus was equal to God or that he was God. What do you think may have caused such a difference in the understanding of scripture, and specifically the nature of God/Jesus/Holyspirit from their time to the later times when the church teaching changed?
Most folks don't understand when we worship and pray to Jesus we are praying and worshiping the INTERNAL Father INSIDE Jesus by default.
The two of them cannot be separated.(This is called the Col 2:9 effect on Jesus' body AFTER he was resurrected from the dead).
Paul exclaimed here there are only two of them...
For there is one God and one mediator between God and man: the man Christ Jesus.
"God and the man".
Passages for God in Three Persons include: the end of Matthew 28; John's Gospel, esp. chapters 13 thru 17; John's First Epistle; Romans 8.
The New Testament is full of this vital, glorious truth.
The New Testament is full of this vital, glorious truth.
@Josho The truth of God in Three Persons really is foundational for Christianity, and thoroughly Biblical.
'But unto the Son He saith,
.. "Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever:
.... a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
...... Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity;
........ therefore God, even Thy God,
.......... hath anointed Thee with the oil of gladness above Thy fellows.
And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth;
.. and the heavens are the works of Thine hands:
.... They shall perish; but Thou remainest;
...... and they all shall wax old as doth a garment;
........ And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up,
and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail. '
(Hebrews 1:8-12)
'Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.
'(Heb 13:8)
Hello @brionne,
There is no doubt that there is but One God.
There can also be no doubt that The Creator of the Heavens and of the Earth is God: Yet Hebrews 1:8-12 attributes that same act of creation to the Lord Jesus Christ. This in itself declares the Deity of Christ. Colossians 1:15-19 makes the same declaration:-
'Who is the image of the invisible God,
.. the firstborn of every creature:
For by Him were all things created,
.. that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible,
.... whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers:
...... all things were created by Him, and for Him:
........ And He is before all things,
.......... and by Him all things consist.
And He is the head of the body, the church:
.. Who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead;
.... that in all things He might have the preeminence.
...... For it pleased the Father that in Him should all fulness dwell; ... '
* The Lord Himself made this amazing claim:-
'Jesus said unto them,
.. Verily, verily, I say unto you,
.... Before Abraham was, I am.
(John 8:58)
* This is not something to be questioned, or argued about, but simply rejoiced in by faith.
Praise God!
Thank you.
In Christ Jesus
Chris
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101G
Well-Known Member
first thanks for the reply, second not necessary so. your body function can still contuine to function without the activity of the brain. many brain dead people have come back to what we calls ... "NORMAL LIFE"
but understand something. your brain in not in control of every function of your body. and about life it's hard to end. one cannot just stop breathing on your own until you die, you might pass out.....
but not die. one usally with have to have an outside agent to end one's life. But remember we are only a "creation", remember this is not the REAL WORLD but a created one..... ok.
so the analogy of body spirit and soul/brain want work either.
PICJAG.
101G
Well-Known Member
thanks for the reply, god formed Adam from the dust of the Earth. and "BREATHED" into him the breath of life. when a body meets a spirit, one become conscious or aware of one's surrounding.
see this answer your question before. one don't see with their eyes, nor their brains. conscious exist in the soul. the brain only present the data recieved by the eyes for interpretation by the soul. it is the soul that see, hear, tast, touch, smell and ..... understand. not our brains.
you might would need to understand this, "We're living in an Holographic Dimension"
it would be worth your while to view it.
PICJAG
The difference is simply between God the Father (called "God" in the New Testament) and God the Son (called "Jesus" or "the Lord Jesus Christ"). However God the Father calls Jesus "God" in Hebrews 1:8,9. That should totally settle the issue.
But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
This is a quotation from the Old Testament (Psalm 45:6,7), where Jesus is also called God: Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: the sceptre of thy kingdom isa right sceptre. Thou lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness: therefore God, thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
If you do not believe that Jesus is God, YOU WILL DIE IN YOUR SINS.
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