You are still avoiding your earlier false claim of perfect scriptures from an all-powerful, all-knowing, and omnipresent God.
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Why I'm NOT a Christian. - Or so they say...
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Buddhist writings certainly record miracles of Buddha. Buddha's Miracles Manifest - Sravasti Abbey - A Buddhist Monastery
Ronald David Bruno
Well-Known Member
Minor variations a count for no changes in any doctrine. As I said, in the New Testament, there only 400 words in question.
The King James Authorized Bible has 783,137 words.As for the number of letter characters in the Bible, the total count is a staggering 3,116,480.
So a misspelled word in 2,000 manuscripts would be counted as 2000 variations. It's really one misspelled word.
If you had 10 people write a letter of the alphabet, each letter would be a variation. Slight different curves, lengths and sizes. We are talking about hand writing. No one's handwriting is exactly the same. We look at handwriting and are pulled sometimes and ask "what word is that ... is that an l or an i ... or maybe it's a t that wasn't crossed?" Textual Criticism is very detailed and strict, like a science. And again God oversees the process.
I disagree. We need to look at more than the number of words in question. Even the placement of a comma can affect the meaning of a phrase, in doctrinally important ways.
Ronald David Bruno
Well-Known Member
See, this statement shows your lack of knowledge and narrow perspective. The Old Testament is the truth, is God's Word and did not lack the preincarnate Jesus/God. He was with the Israelites. The Judeo/Christian faith has the same God in common, only Jews are still blond to Christ. But soon they will be enlightened too.
He was with them all along; He spoke to Moses in Exodus 3:14. He is the Great I AM, the Book of John furnishes all the details about that.
He was always there from them:
Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the city that kills the prophets and stones those who have been sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, just as a hen gathers her young under her wings, and you were unwilling! LUKE 13:3
What about the number of Protestant denominations? Does that account for any differences in doctrinal interpretation?
Have you forgotten that doctrine is man-made?
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Right.
There are several layers before we get to the English translation that we are reading.
- Manuscript copies, of copies, of copies...
- Textual criticism (bias)
- Translation (bias)
- Different translations (bias)
- Interpretation (bias)
- Preaching (bias)
- Personal reading (bias)
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Ronald David Bruno
Well-Known Member
No I am not. Sin has left it's mark on everything. Imperfection, corruption, mutations(defects), we see it everywhere and so not one physical thing is seen as perfect. HIS MESSAGE IS CLEAR, ALL OF IT, JUST NOT TO YOU. You don't trust God with just a minor task as to protect His word, yet believe He created the universe. Actually the creation of life and it's myriad forms took only six days. Protecting a book is small change for him.
You continue to struggle with God and His word. Hope that changes someday for you. The day we see you starting a thread and glorifying God instead of critiquing His work will be the day.
Ronald David Bruno
Well-Known Member
Obviously the scribes had numerous methods to text their work. I gave one example of their methods.
I trust in the reliability of the Bible, if you don't, that is your problem. I think I'm done here.
Here's what you wrote.
Ronald David Bruno said:
Think about it. If God is all powerful, all knowing, omnipresent and has a message for us, don't you think He would make sure it wasn't corrupted and protected and passed down through the generations?
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It's actually everybody's problem. Let me give you an example -- again from Metzger -- of why you need to be careful here:
“A theological point is involved in the placing of a comma in Luke 23:43. According to the traditional way of understanding the passage, the repentant robber asked Jesus on the cross to remember him when Jesus entered His kingdom. To this request Jesus responded, “Truly I say to you, today you will be with Me in paradise.” In the interest of supporting the doctrine of “soul sleep” held by Jehovah’s Witnesses, the translators of the New World Translation of the Christian Greek Scriptures have moved the comma so that the verse reads, “Truly I tell you today, You will be with me in Paradise.” But surely here the robber knew that Jesus was speaking to him that day, and so the correct punctuation is that of traditional translations.”
In what way is the Bible reliable?
(I agree somewhat, but not sure what you mean)
I think God is reliable. The Bible is a book.
Bibliolatry: Worship/knowledge of the book MORE than the author
I have encountered some that I thought had fallen into this trap. I asked them, "What would become of your faith if you put your whole library out on the curb on trash day?" The guilty are left mostly speechless. Or, alternatively VERY angry. How come? To be clear, I love the Bible and use...
www.christianityboard.com
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It just occurred to me that I've never heard this before outside of John's gospel. I've heard from other sources that God raised Him from the dead-- in Rom. 10:9, 1 Cor.15:5, Gal. 1:1, 1 Pet.1:3, Acts 2:32. My understanding is that John wrote last, and I suspect he was aware of some or most of these sources saying Who did the raising. Yet John had a different spin.
Ronald David Bruno
Well-Known Member
Right, the NWT is not accepted by Christianity outside of the JW org. Scholars would say that it is the only Bible translated to conform to a belief system. I am very well aware of JW views, I have many in my family.
Glad you brought this example up. The Holy Spirit grows churches that are in line with the truth, others remain stagnant when they teach false doctrines. After 120 years, the JW org has only grown to a mere 8+ million worldwide. Since 1900 Christianity has grown from 500 million to 2.6 billion. That's growth.
Don't get me wrong, I think God is merciful with them and the Mormons as well, they believe in Jesus, have faith - he just doesn't grow their churches. That said, I have been in Protestant churches that seemed dead and cold, with no evidence of growth in 50 years.
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Ronald David Bruno
Well-Known Member
Ronald David Bruno
Well-Known Member
I have been spending all this time defending the reliability of the Bible, that it has been past down accurately, protected ... it is God's word. Faith comes by the Word. If you doubt it, your faith will be weak. How can you know who Jesus is if you aren't sure the stories are true? And how can you believe in Him.In what way is the Bible reliable?
(I agree somewhat, but not sure what you mean)
I think God is reliable. The Bible is a book.
Bibliolatry: Worship/knowledge of the book MORE than the author
I have encountered some that I thought had fallen into this trap. I asked them, "What would become of your faith if you put your whole library out on the curb on trash day?" The guilty are left mostly speechless. Or, alternatively VERY angry. How come? To be clear, I love the Bible and use...
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Jesus said gays are heading for Hell Fire, as are those who tell them they aren't !
If all one has to confirm that Jesus is real is a book... they are in BIG trouble!
Matthew 7:23 NIV
Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’
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And we have been investing all this time helping you to see that claims about the book are greatly exaggerated.
And in many cases false. The facts were hidden from us. Our Pastors knew the truth. It was a massive cover-up.
Biblegate.
Misquote.
Faith comes by hearing. (not reading)
The rhema of Christ. (Romans 10:17)
To me, the real value of the Bible is in challenging those whose faith is in a book.
On the contrary.
They could blow the planet out from beneath my feet, but if I have Jesus, I have everything I need.
By inviting him to live inside you. I knew little to nothing of the Bible at 8 years old when I invited him in.
It wasn't the Bible that I was receiving into my life; it was the God who is real. Hopefully you have done the same?
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Lambano
Well-Known Member
Hey, c'mon, have a little sympathy for those of us who aren't blessed with a lot of charismatic spiritual experiences. (Or for whom such experiences are noteworthy and precious because they are extremely rare.) For those of us not so blessed, the book is all we have.
(Did like the toast graphic.)
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