Why I'm NOT a Christian. - Or so they say...

[Ronald David Bruno]

Which group is more gullible?

People with no faith are gullible, then after that, people with little faith are prone to go astray.

Peter Enns strikes me as conservative, not liberal. He isn't espousing liberal theology. IMHO

Well, Peter Enns believes that various significant narratives in Genesis and in the New Testament to be ‘myth’ or ‘legend’
Liberals always try to distort or discard scripture. If it doesn't conform to their view - must be a myth or an allegory

The certainty cult is "marked by traits we wouldn’t necessarily value in others".
- "unflappable dogmatic certainty,
- vigilant monitoring of who’s in and who’s out,
- preoccupation with winning debates and defending the faith,
- privileging the finality of logical arguments,
- conforming unquestionably to intellectual authorities and celebrities."

The "certainty cult"? This is a negative connotation of Christianity, a dysfunctional perspective of the purpose that God has for the BODY OF CHRIST.
First of all, Christ being the Author of our faith, is sovereign and has a perfect plan. This means He has factored into His plan good and evil, sin and errors that we make for a purpose. Peter seems to pick out the negatives. What about all the positives that the Body of Christ has accomplished in almost 2000 years? A
The Holy Spirit works through all who are born again to accomplish God's purpose. Peter Enns is criticizing the AUTHOR. JESUS WROTE EVERYONE'S STORY, SAVES THOSE WHO ARE ON HIS LIST AND CARRIES THEM THROUGH THEIR LIVES TOWARDS HEAVEN.
HE FINISHES THE FAITH OF EVERYONE WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF LIFE. Yet, Mr Enns tells us this is not how it should be done - he's got a better way.

 

[St. SteVen]

People with no faith are gullible, then after that, people with little faith are prone to go astray.

Well, Peter Enns believes that various significant narratives in Genesis and in the New Testament to be ‘myth’ or ‘legend’
Liberals always try to distort or discard scripture. If it doesn't conform to their view - must be a myth or an allegory

The "certainty cult"? This is a negative connotation of Christianity, a dysfunctional perspective of the purpose that God has for the BODY OF CHRIST.
First of all, Christ being the Author of our faith, is sovereign and has a perfect plan. This means He has factored into His plan good and evil, sin and errors that we make for a purpose. Peter seems to pick out the negatives. What about all the positives that the Body of Christ has accomplished in almost 2000 years? A
The Holy Spirit works through all who are born again to accomplish God's purpose. Peter Enns is criticizing the AUTHOR. JESUS WROTE EVERYONE'S STORY, SAVES THOSE WHO ARE ON HIS LIST AND CARRIES THEM THROUGH THEIR LIVES TOWARDS HEAVEN.
HE FINISHES THE FAITH OF EVERYONE WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF LIFE. Yet, Mr Enns tells us this is not how it should be done - he's got a better way.

You certainly aren't doing anything to make your view attractive or desirable.
Have traded the good news for some bad news?

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[St. SteVen]

Well, Peter Enns believes that various significant narratives in Genesis and in the New Testament to be ‘myth’ or ‘legend’
Liberals always try to distort or discard scripture. If it doesn't conform to their view - must be a myth or an allegory

Can you name a world religion that does NOT have myth and legend?

If not, why should we assume the Bible has none? (if every other religious text has them)
It seems pretty convenient to claim that OUR holy text has none while ALL others do.

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[Ronald David Bruno]

Can you name a world religion that does NOT have myth and legend?

If not, why should we assume the Bible has none? (if every other religious text has them)
It seems pretty convenient to claim that OUR holy text has none while ALL others do.

All others were not authored by God.
Think about it. If God is all powerful, all knowing, omnipresent and has a message for us, don't you think He would make sure it wasn't corrupted and protected and passed down through the generations?

 

[RedFan]

All others were not authored by God.
Think about it. If God is all powerful, all knowing, omnipresent and has a message for us, don't you think He would make sure it wasn't corrupted and protected and passed down through the generations?

But we know to a certainty that Scripture DID get corrupted. The KJV adds things that weren't in the Masoretic Text and removes things that were in it. The Masoretic Text adds things that weren't in the LXX and removes things that were in it. And so on. Nowhere on the planet does the original handwritten document of any book or letter of the Bible exist. We have only copies of copies of copies of copies. If the all powerful, all knowing, omnipresent God set out to protect His message through the ages, He did not succeed.

Today there are so many different translations into various language (English being a prime example) that it makes the aftermath of the Tower of Babel look like a practice run.

 

[St. SteVen]

If God is all powerful, all knowing, omnipresent and has a message for us, don't you think He would make sure it wasn't corrupted and protected and passed down through the generations?

How do we know that it wasn't corrupted in our own holy book?
Being all powerful, all knowing, and omnipresent doesn't guarantee that he did so.
Was the Bible his idea? Or humankind's idea?
Perhaps he meant for us to hear his voice without a book?
Don't misunderstand me, I love the book. But I'm not sure if we were supposed to have it.
God may consider it to be idolatry on our part. Too many worship the book, more than the author.

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[St. SteVen]

All others were not authored by God.

As I understand it, all religions claim inspiration for their scriptures. (holy books)

Although, it seems that Christianity stands above the others in that regard.
But I'm no expert on the subject of world religions.

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[St. SteVen]

Today there are so many different translations into various language (English being a prime example) that it makes the aftermath of the Tower of Babel look like a practice run.

LOL
Now that's funny.

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[St. SteVen]

But we know to a certainty that Scripture DID get corrupted. The KJV adds things that weren't in the Masoretic Text and removes things that were in it. The Masoretic Text adds things that weren't in the LXX and removes things that were in it. And so on. Nowhere on the planet does the original handwritten document of any book or letter of the Bible exist. We have only copies of copies of copies of copies. If the all powerful, all knowing, omnipresent God set out to protect His message through the ages, He did not succeed.

Agree. If that was the plan, He did not succeed.
When you find out where the Bible came from, you realize that the church has been... misrepresenting the book to us.
Based on what the church told me, God picked up his pen and began writing Genesis through Moses and didn't finish writing until he finished the book of Revelations. But not before adding a dire warning at the end of his "book" lest anyone change a word.

The reality is that God doesn't NEED a Bible to speak to us. He can use anything. Like a potter's wheel. (Jeremiah 18:2-4)
In fact, our dependence on the book may be handicapping our ability to hear his actual voice.

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[Ronald David Bruno]

We have only copies of copies of copies of copies. If the all powerful, all knowing, omnipresent God set out to protect His message through the ages, He did not succeed.

The New Testament is a sound representation of the Original scriptures. It is reliable, estimated to be 99.6% accurate. It bus said that there may he 409 words in question that do not effect/change any doctrine.
The Oldest copies of Isaiah was said to be 1000 AD. When they discovered the Dead Sea Scrolls, they found a copy of the Book of Isaiah 1000 years old that was practically an exact replica, proving the precision, value, honor, love, loyalty the scribes had for the Word God. They would fast, pray, confine themselves in a room with strict orders not to he disturbed. . These were serious holy men who took bonir in their task to oreserve God's Word. Most importantly was that their effort was guided and empowered by God, who specifically ordained them, equipped them with scholarship, special talents, intellegence and unique refined abilities.
The detail was so strict as to find the middle letter of a word in the entire document and count its number. If this was incorrect, they would scrap the copy and start over.
So imagine a scribe is working on the Book of Isaiah ,( 25,608 words) and say the exact middle of that document was a letter of a specific word, numbered at 56, 282. Another scribe would test the document with this counting method ( which was only one of many tests).

Could you copy a treasured letter ( totally 515 words) from your deceased mother written to her children _exactly _ word for word and ask your children _ when they got older _ to do the same, while dozen other family members re-examined each copy to ensure it's accuracy to the letter? If not, you and your family should go back to school.

 

[St. SteVen]

estimated to be 99.6% accurate.

What happened to...

Think about it. If God is all powerful, all knowing, omnipresent and has a message for us, don't you think He would make sure it wasn't corrupted and protected and passed down through the generations?

Is God only 99.6% powerful, all knowing, and omnipresent?
Seems that an additional 0.4% would have been achievable. ???

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[St. SteVen]

Could you copy a treasured letter ( totally 515 words) from your deceased mother written to her children _exactly _ word for word and ask your children _ when they got older _ to do the same, while dozen other family members re-examined each copy to ensure it's accuracy to the letter? If not, you and your family should go back to school.

Does that account for the 400,000+ scriptural copy variants that have been identified?

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[St. SteVen]

So imagine a scribe is working on the Book of Isaiah ,( 25,608 words) and say the exact middle of that document was a letter of a specific word, numbered at 56, 282. Another scribe would test the document with this counting method ( which was only one of many tests).

What about the New Testament?

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[Lambano]

Is God only 99.6% powerful, all knowing, and omnipresent?

Three sigma (i.e. standard deviations from the mean). Close enough for Government work.

 

[St. SteVen]

Three sigma (i.e. standard deviations from the mean). Close enough for Government work.

What more can we expect from a fallen world, right? - LOL

Better tools, better Bible.

What we have is pretty darned close to perfect. - LOL

Better luck next time...

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[RedFan]

The New Testament is a sound representation of the Original scriptures. It is reliable, estimated to be 99.6% accurate. It bus said that there may he 409 words in question that do not effect/change any doctrine.
The Oldest copies of Isaiah was said to be 1000 AD. When they discovered the Dead Sea Scrolls, they found a copy of the Book of Isaiah 1000 years old that was practically an exact replica, proving the precision, value, honor, love, loyalty the scribes had for the Word God. They would fast, pray, confine themselves in a room with strict orders not to he disturbed. . These were serious holy men who took bonir in their task to oreserve God's Word. Most importantly was that their effort was guided and empowered by God, who specifically ordained them, equipped them with scholarship, special talents, intellegence and unique refined abilities.
The detail was so strict as to find the middle letter of a word in the entire document and count its number. If this was incorrect, they would scrap the copy and start over.
So imagine a scribe is working on the Book of Isaiah ,( 25,608 words) and say the exact middle of that document was a letter of a specific word, numbered at 56, 282. Another scribe would test the document with this counting method ( which was only one of many tests).

Could you copy a treasured letter ( totally 515 words) from your deceased mother written to her children _exactly _ word for word and ask your children _ when they got older _ to do the same, while dozen other family members re-examined each copy to ensure it's accuracy to the letter? If not, you and your family should go back to school.

You're missing the point -- and underscoring the importance of another one.

The point you are missing is that an "all-powerful, all-knowing" (your phrase) God could have guided all copyists to ensure 0.00% errors in all copies. He didn't.

The point that is exacerbated by your praise of how few copyist errors exist is that it guts your ability to explain away contradictions among different books and letters. There are many.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Being all powerful, all knowing, and omnipresent doesn't guarantee that he did so.
Was the Bible his idea?

Oh boy, you certainly lack faith. As I said in my first post, your many doubts characterize your level of faith. Weak.

What happened to...

Is God only 99.6% powerful, all knowing, and omnipresent?
Seems that an additional 0.4% would have been achievable. ???

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Well, misspelled words or flip flop phrases never hurt anyone. God is merciful. That He allowed us to cooperate with passing His message along, He also wanted to reflect partially human nature, which is imperfect. Not bad though, most people would considered a 99.6 % on a test to be A+ work.and it also makes us strive for perfection. We all have hope and a yeaning for a perfect world and body which will come soon!

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

As I understand it, all religions claim inspiration for their scriptures.

All religions don't have Jesus as their Savior. God became flesh and dwelt among us. He healed the sick, lame, blind, deaf and raised the dead. He raised Himself from the dead. Did anybody else in any other religion do that?

 

[St. SteVen]

St. SteVen said:
Being all powerful, all knowing, and omnipresent doesn't guarantee that he did so.
Was the Bible his idea?

Oh boy, you certainly lack faith. As I said in my first post, your many doubts characterize your level of faith. Weak.

That was uncalled for.

Just because I don't agree with YOUR opinions doesn't equate to a lack of faith. Perhaps on the contrary.

You didn't answer the question either: "Was the Bible his idea?"

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[St. SteVen]

St. SteVen said:
As I understand it, all religions claim inspiration for their scriptures.

All religions don't have Jesus as their Savior. God became flesh and dwelt among us. He healed the sick, lame, blind, deaf and raised the dead. He raised Himself from the dead. Did anybody else in any other religion do that?

Like I said, I'm not an expert on world religions.
I would say, each one has their own take on the world. And probably reports miracles.

Even Judaism and Islam make such claims, I suppose.

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