Why do Catholics adore, worship and deify Mary so much?

[Moriah's Song]

Luke 1:28
Wycliffe Bible

28 And the angel entered to her, and said, Hail, full of grace; the Lord is with thee; blessed be thou among women.

Not a catholic version

The website I used for all those bibles did not include the Wycliffe Bible because it is not a reliable bible and the RCC does have some connection to it as I had researched it in the past. But you avoided the main points as usual.

Wikipedia -
Although Wycliffe's Bible circulated widely in the later Middle Ages, it had very little influence on the first English biblical translations of the reformation era such as those of William Tyndale (Tyndale Bible) and Miles Coverdale (Great Bible), as it had been translated from the Latin Vulgate rather than the original Greek and Hebrew.

Consequently, it was generally ignored in later English Protestant biblical scholarship. The earliest printed edition, of the New Testament only, was by John Lewis in 1731.

However, due to the common use of surviving manuscripts of Wycliffe's Bible as works of an unknown Catholic translator, this version continued to circulate among 16th-century English Catholics, and many of its renderings of the Vulgate into English were adopted by the translators of the Rheims New Testament.

 

[theefaith]

Can dead people hear was the question.
The answer is no.
A person is the body.

Ecc 5:
[5] For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing....

Why quote John 11:25, which is speaking of a living soul, of a living spirit?

Don’t you know the difference?

Then you say:



And you add to your quote...a reference “Luke 1:45”.

Why add that reference? Luke 1:45 does not verify what you said.

Twisting the truth does not support your claim.
Luke 1:45 says nothing about Mary being more faithful than anyone else!

Luke 1:
[45] And blessed is she that believed: for there shall be a performance of those things which were told her from the Lord.

Why do you pray to the dead? They don’t hear you.
Why do you think Mary was more faithful than any other person?
Scripture doesn’t say any such thing.

Is shines as a poor reflection on Catholics when you have to Twist the truth, to make a point.

Spiritual Knowledge or communication
Even those in hell have this ability

Luke 16:24
And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

 

[theefaith]

@theefaith....Psssst! Obsession is not a virtue according to God's word....dedication is but not obsession.

I'd say that 28+ different threads on the internet about Mary etc. is warranted for using the word excessive "obsession."

guilty as charged!

All praise of Mary redounds to Jesus her creator and savior!

Lk 1:49

 

[Cassandra]

I have no idea what spiritual knowledge is, but, and you know this, God alone is omniscient. Father Abraham has no business sending anyone. God alone commands the heavenly realm. It is a parable and if that is all you have, it is not enough.

 

[theefaith]

That was strictly for the apostles. You will not find anything in the Bible where they handed that APOSTOLIC authority to the elders.

acts 1:15 And in those days Peter stood up in the midst of the disciples, and said, (the number of names together were about an hundred and twenty,)

16 Men and brethren, this scripture must needs have been fulfilled, which the Holy Ghost by the mouth of David spake before concerning Judas, which was guide to them that took Jesus.

17 For he was numbered with us, and had obtained part of this ministry.

18 Now this man purchased a field with the reward of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out.

19 And it was known unto all the dwellers at Jerusalem; insomuch as that field is called in their proper tongue, Aceldama, that is to say, The field of blood.

20 For it is written in the book of Psalms, Let his habitation be desolate, and let no man dwell therein: and his bishoprick let another take.

21 Wherefore of these men which have companied with us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us,

22 Beginning from the baptism of John, unto that same day that he was taken up from us, must one be ordained to be a witness with us of his resurrection.

23 And they appointed two, Joseph called Barsabas, who was surnamed Justus, and Matthias.

24 And they prayed, and said, Thou, Lord, which knowest the hearts of all men, shew whether of these two thou hast chosen,

25 That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place.

26 And they gave forth their lots; and the lot fell upon Matthias; and he was numbered with the eleven apostles.

 

[theefaith]

I have no idea what spiritual knowledge is, but, and you know this, God alone is omniscient. Father Abraham has no business sending anyone. God alone commands the heavenly realm. It is a parable and if that is all you have, it is not enough.

biblical principals and examples need not apply! Ok got it!

if Abraham could hear him, then Mary can hear our prayers as the holy church and the apostles and the say tell us!

 

[Moriah's Song]

guilty as charged!

All praise of Mary redounds to Jesus her creator and savior!

Lk 1:49

Nice to see you accepting the responsibility of being obssessed with idol worship even though it is forbidden in scripture!

 

[Jim B]

That lake of fire will be for all who loved and made a lie .
Thee faith you must flee the CC my friend .
You are twisting scrips now to fit your beloved CC . I know you beleive
the apostels are in that church . BUT NO they are not .
They have been desiring the worship for days , weeks , months , years , decades , centuries and etc .
They loved to have the pre eminence . They had men bowing down to them and kissing rings
and teaching all kinds of doctrines to put fear into people and keeping them far from biblical sound doctrine .
So as they could control them . That church got very rich DOING just that
SO too have our false prosperity gospel preachers . You must flee the tabernacles of the CC .
And begin afresh and anew in the bible . Hurry thee faith and dont look back .
You are doing everything now to preach your salvation by faith in THE CC
but i will stick to salvation IN JESUS alone . On the last day one of us will cringe in terror before the LORD .
IF you will simply go back into the bible and really dig into it , It wont take long before you see Just which one of us
has been decieved . GO back into that bible and stay well fed in it . HURRY thee faith and i will be praying for you .
One thing i can say , ON the day of the LORD your blood wont be on my hands . Cause i did what i could to point you
back to the true faith , back to the beginning and so far you refuse this .

I agree totally with your post. It grieves me that the Catholic denomination has added so much extraneous stuff to the Christian faith that the Bible is almost insignificant to them. They put their faith and trust in the Pope, Cardinals, and Bishops, none of which are in the Bible. They create statues of saints, including little statuettes for their cars, and pray to those idols instead of to God. They believe that their saints -- all Christians are saints -- will intercede for them. Tragic!

They also heap so much ritual into their religion, believing that, as in the Old Mosaic covenant, those rituals are meaningful to God. They are reinventing the practices of the Old Covenant, which God abhors.

They refuse the bread and wine to non-Catholics, as they believe that they own the body and blood of Christ. Imagine!

They confess their sins to a father -- Matthew 23:9 says "And do not call anyone on earth ‘father,’ for you have one Father, and he is in heaven" -- and then he (not she, of course) absolves them of their sins if they perform certain acts of penance such as praying to Mary x number of times.

They depict Jesus as an emaciated European who is still on the cross! Even though He was a rural Semite who died and was resurrected to the right hand of God.

I could go on and on, but it makes me very sad that so many people have fallen under the unscriptural spell of the Catholic church. They have so distorted the Gospel and the true faith in Christ that it is almost unrecognizable.

 

[Moriah's Song]

biblical principals and examples need not apply! Ok got it!

if Abraham could hear him, then Mary can hear our prayers as the holy church and the apostles and the say tell us!

Yeah, you got it ok! The vast majority of your examples are not properly applied as I see them. Your heumenutics need a massive overhaul. For example...

It's like you're saying...

"If Jesus can walk on water then so can Mary." or
"If Jesus can raise the dead then so can Mary."
"If Jesus prayed to the Father, then I can pray to Mary."
"If Jesus can heal the sick, so can Mary."
"If Jesus ascended into heaven, then so did Mary."​

...and on and on it goes!

You attribute to Mary what she cannot do,
what she did not do, and
what she did not say.

 

[GodsGrace]

The apostles ensured that there would be a plurality of faithful elders in each and every church (Titus 1:5-9 and other passages). And that they in turn would teach faithful men, who would then become elders to replace them. But all the NT churches were autonomous (not accountable directly to anyone but Christ, as seen in Revelation 1-3), and each church was under the oversight of only elders (also called pastors or bishops). As you will note in the NT, there was no single man appointed as "bishop" over the elders.

There was always a plurality of elders in each church, so that one man would not take pre-eminence. Unfortunately, this pattern was broken very shortly after the apostles passed on. Later the church of Rome falsely claimed that Peter (the apostle to the Jews) became the bishop of Rome, and therefore the Roman Catholic Church was to have "apostolic succession" through its bishops, with the pope as the successor to Peter. But there was no Scriptural basis for this, and the Eastern Orthodox churches refused to accept the pre-eminence of Rome.

"The Eastern Orthodox Church is opposed to the Roman Catholic doctrine of papal supremacy. While not denying that primacy does exist for the Bishop of Rome, Eastern Orthodox Christians argue that the tradition of Rome's primacy in the early Church was not equivalent to the current doctrine of supremacy."-- Wikipedia

The NT churches were not autonomous, unless you're using this word differently from how it's meant.

The churches that Peter and Paul and Luke and Mark set up were to follow the rules of the Apostles and especially of Paul, who was the top theologian of the early church, and Peter and James were very much looked up to and when a problem arose, they were sought for their advice.

Rev 1-3...the time was not really at hand, was it? But the church continued on.

As to Bishops, they did exist and were the head of any major region that became a part of the Christian movement.
Peter was the Bishop of Rome.
I'm not getting into history unless you write back. I'm tired of repeating Christian history and wish more knew the details involved. Not that I know all of them or are some scholar...but interest in the early church has led me to read a lot and understand, somewhat, what happened at that time.

You, and others, look to the bible for Christian history.
Maybe life continued even after Jesus, and Peter and Paul had left this earth?
The church grew greatly by 300. Things couldn't be like in Acts anymore.

Peter was not the first Pope but is called that as an honorary title.
If you know some early Christian history, you'll know why.
He was the Bishop of Rome.
James was the Bishop of Jerusalem as early as 60AD, approx.
If any question arose,,,the church went to the Bishop.

 

[Enoch111]

The NT churches were not autonomous

If they were not autonomous, they would not be directly accountable to the Lord Jesus Christ Himself (Rev 1-3). Every church -- under a plurality of elders -- is directly accountable to Christ.

 

[GodsGrace]

Personally, I believe bowing down, calling out a name is worshiping.
Personally, I believe bowing down before a statue is worshiping that statue.
Personally, I believe the Catholic Church has made Mary a sinless deity equal with the Lord God.
Personally, Catholics can deny they are worshiping Mary, however their words do not line up with their actions.




Saints in heaven and saints on earth, are fellow servants. Some are well known more than others, but still are fellow servants. Not worshiped or venerated.



Dead people hear? No

Glory to God,
Taken

You have your own definition of worship.
You're entitled to it...
I'm sure some older persons might "worship" some saint or other...
those that know Catholic doctrine DO NOT.

 

[Jim B]

Yeah, you got it ok! The vast majority of your examples are not properly applied as I see them. Your heumenutics need a massive overhaul. For example...

It's like you're saying...

"If Jesus can walk on water then so can Mary." or
"If Jesus can raise the dead then so can Mary."
"If Jesus prayed to the Father, then I can pray to Mary."
"If Jesus can heal the sick, so can Mary."
"If Jesus ascended into heaven, then so did Mary."​

...and on and on it goes!

You attribute to Mary what she cannot do,
what she did not do, and
what she did not say.

Great post!

 

[Jim B]

You have your own definition of worship.
You're entitled to it...
I'm sure some older persons might "worship" some saint or other...
those that know Catholic doctrine DO NOT.

I disagree. When you pray to Mary (or the saints) you are praying to others besides God. That is unscriptural.

If those who know Catholic doctrine DO NOT, then what are they doing invoking their names as intercessors? Is God hard of hearing or does He only respect certain people's prayers?

Why do Catholics pray to Mary and claim that she is in heaven as Jesus' advisor?

It's all manufactured doctrine that has nothing to do with the faith of the New Testament.

 

[GodsGrace]

If they were not autonomous, they would not be directly accountable to the Lord Jesus Christ Himself (Rev 1-3). Every church -- under a plurality of elders -- is directly accountable to Christ.

Oh for goodness sake.
Jesus went back to heaven.
He wasn't micro-managing the churches from up there.

We are all directly responsible to Jesus.
What does that have to do with the churches?

Each church was responsible to the bishop of that area.

Find out who were the 5 most important bishops...
that'll get you started on Christian History.

 

[Pearl]

Why do Catholics adore, worship and deify Mary so much?

This was the question asked at the start of this thread.

The reason is simple - they have been taught to do so for centuries and are afraid to do anything else. They have been brainwashed. It is not necessarily the fault of the ordinary Catholics but of those in leadership; their priests, bishops, cardinals and even their pope.

These men have made it their business to keep Catholics bound to their traditions by their false doctrines because it is lucrative business. Riches at the highest level and poverty at the lower levels. Their hierarchy is corrupt.

My husbands brothers were both married to Catholics and were fed up of the priest calling at the house for money, which the women would hand over even against their men's wishes.

I watched a film called 'The two popes' the other night and it really brought home how affluent the higher echelons of the Catholic church really is whilst many of their 'flocks' live in abject poverty. So much for the servant King who had no home and no possessions and washed the feet of his disciples as an example of how they should serve one another.

 

[GodsGrace]

I disagree. When you pray to Mary (or the saints) you are praying to others besides God. That is unscriptural.

If those who know Catholic doctrine DO NOT, then what are they doing invoking their names as intercessors? Is God hard of hearing or does He only respect certain people's prayers?

Why do Catholics pray to Mary and claim that she is in heaven as Jesus' advisor?

It's all manufactured doctrine that has nothing to do with the faith of the New Testament.

Jesus ADVISOR???
Where does Catholic doctrine state that? I thought I knew it pretty well.

I agree that we shouldn't be praying to her.
But I also do not agree that knowledgeable catholics worship her.
This is not correct.

Find out the difference between the word WORSHIP and VENERATE.
I'm Protestant BTW. I just hate to see incorrect statements made about ANY church.

 

[Pearl]

Jesus ADVISOR???
Where does Catholic doctrine state that? I thought I knew it pretty well.

I agree that we shouldn't be praying to her.
But I also do not agree that knowledgeable catholics worship her.
This is not correct.

Find out the difference between the word WORSHIP and VENERATE.
I'm Protestant BTW. I just hate to see incorrect statements made about ANY church.

Those defending their Catholic beliefs have used these terms.

 

[Taken]

Spiritual Knowledge or communication
Even those in hell have this ability

Those in hell are NOT DEAD BODY’s...they are Living souls.
DEAD body’s are buried in the ground, not hell!

Those in hell are NOT BODY’s communicating.
Those in hell are DEPARTED LIVING SOULS communicating with other Departed Living souls, in hell.

Those in heaven are DEPARTED LIVING SOULS communicating with other Departed Living souls, in heaven.

LIVING SOULS ON EARTH are IN their Living Body’s communicating, with other Living souls IN their Living Body’s.

LIVING souls IN a Living body, DO NOT Communicate with Living souls in hell.
LIVING souls IN a Living body, DO NOT Communicate with Living souls in heaven.

Luke 16:24
And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

Luke 16:24 is about Departed Living souls (out of DEAD BODY’S), Communicating with other Living souls Departed (out of Dead Body’s.).

You were saying Living souls ON Earth, IN their Living Body ON Earth...
CAN COMMUNICATE with...Living souls IN HEAVEN, Departed out of their DEAD BODY’S....
No, they do not.
No, Luke 16:24 does not say they do.
Again, Scripture does not VERIFY your claim.

 

[Taken]

You have your own definition of worship.
You're entitled to it...
I'm sure some older persons might "worship" some saint or other...
those that know Catholic doctrine DO NOT.

My definition of Worship is not mysterious.
Worship is simply a feeling or EXPRESSION of reverence and adoration for a deity.

Scripture itself reveals an EXPRESSION OF Worshipping IS BOWING DOWN, before the thing / person / Name / that IS revered, IS adored as a deity.

Catholics claim When they bow down to a Statue of Mary, they are showing an EXPRESSION of reverence ADORATION for a deity, Mary.

The first step in that ^ case was to (exclude) the full meaning of BOWING DOWN IN WORSHIP, to bowing down in Adoration (excluding) the Deity, to simply including the Name, Mary.

YET...do not forget....
Catholics have MADE Mary, equal with Jesus......SINLESS.
THUS...the reverence and deity, IS INCLUDED, when they bow down before a statue of Mary.

Scripture is full of examples of bowing down as an EXPRESSION of WORSHIP, because of revering and adoring.....the Lord God, His NAME....or whatever one is BOWING DOWN before, or whatever NAME one is calling out.

It is a conflict...Catholic’s SAYING, they bow dow to a statue of Mary...calling out her NAME, IN Adoration.....IN an intercessory position....YET, the fact is they have already been taught and believe, Mary is SINLESS.....which is what defines a deity....and add to that...further....
They also teach and believe, Mary is the MOTHER OF GOD....further verifying, she IS a “deity”....sitting IN Heaven as “A QUEEN”....co ruler of Heaven.
Mary was NEVER Scripturally given the INTERCESSORY position...
That “position” is expressly given JESUS.
Mary was NEVER Scripturally given a QUEENS THRONE.
Mary was NEVER Scripturally given natural birth without Sin.

None of Jesus’ disciples, Apostles, taught to build Statues, bow before them, OR did such things.
* EVERY Human person, has specific things they, as individuals CAN DO, to SERVE the Lord God. Every individual has the FREEWILL to Serve the Lord God or not. Every individual SHALL BE Blessed, AND SHALL BE Rewarded for “their Service” that glorifies the Lord God.....and His NAME.
* WE have Scriptural text that expressly “identifies” NAMES, of individuals, AS EXAMPLES....of WHAT “they” freely chose.....AND the consequence/result of their choices.
* Nothing what so ever, elevated Mary. She was revealed as a FAITHFUL Servant, and to be remembered as a FAITHFUL Servant....same as every other FAITHFUL Service.

* So Bottom line.... Read the Scriptures, of what is INCLUDED and EXCLUDED in the EXPRESSION of WORSHIP. Worship is an EXPRESSION exclusively for Deities.
* IS Mary, (according to Catholics), bodily, soul, spirit, NEVER HAD SIN, sitting as a QUEEN in her own THRONE in Heaven, IS the intercessory IN Heaven? How is that NOT a deity?