Why do Catholics adore, worship and deify Mary so much?

[theefaith]

Dancing all over the place in half constructed sentences is of no benefit to me.

If you are wondering WHO is Jesus’ earthly mother, brother, sister....Jesus Himself answered that question....it is one who does the will of His Father.

If some dead and buried woman is your spiritual mother....that’s you.
Calling on spirits of the dead, is calling on familiar spirits...and called an abomination according to God.

We all are accountable for what we do.

Dead no!

1. John 11:25
   Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
   
   no one after Jesus has been more faithful than Mary Lk 1:45

 

[theefaith]

Christ and His church are one.
If you mean Church, then I agree.
There is only one Body of Christ...us...the true believers and disciples of Jesus.

You say Christ continues His work thru the church He founded, on Peter and the Apostles.
I can agree to that. Jesus gave Peter the Keys...the authority. As all the Apostles have authority and it's passed down through Apostolic succession.
Which was just fine until the church (institution) got embroiled with the state.

But, not to derail...here is my question:
What happened to persons that believed in God BEFORE there was a church?
Is the church necessary for salvation?


God has been saving persons a long time before there was even a bible that one could read and before it was disseminated throughout the whole world. How were those persons saved? CCC 27 to about 50 or Romans 1:19-20

none are saved without the church
The church came first
The church wrote the Bible
The church has the authority of Christ

Truth!

The evidence of true faith is humble subjection and obedience to Christ & His holy church!

The rule of faith for Christians is Jesus Christ Jn 14:6 and His church! Matt 18:17 acts 2:42 1 Tim 3:15

True Christians cannot listen to the errors of excommunicated heretics, but we listen faithfully to Christ, in the bosom of holy mother church, the only ark of salvation!
1 pet 3:20-21 matt 18:17 matt 16:18-19 matt 28:19-20 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-23

Truth must be revealed by God thru Christ to His church (the apostles Jude 1:3) then must be proposed by the church, (Matt 28:19 gal 3:23) without error by the Holy Spirit! (Jn 16:13)

Christ and His church are one! (Acts 9:4 eph 5:31 Jn 15:1-5)

Rejection of the one true church or its teaching is rejection of Christ and God!

Christ and His church are one! Acts 9:4 eph 5:32 Jn 8:12 & Matt 5:14

Dan 2:44 Isa 2:2 Micah 4:1 fulfilled in matt 5:14

matt 16:18-19 shall not prevail
Matt 18:17 hear the truth from the church
Acts 2:42 doctrine of the apostles
1 Tim 3:15 the church is the pillar and ground of truth.

Faith ascents & never protests or rebels!
Spiritual Pride protests & is always in rebellion

The nature of spiritual pride is rebellion!
Spiritual pride must protest, and must be right!

Christ and His one true church cannot be right or my self-righteous personal interpretation base on spiritual pride and private judgement must be wrong, and that is unacceptable!

Truth must be revealed by God, and taught by the church, proposed for our belief, we must be instructed!
Matt 28:19 Lk 1:4 Acts 8:31 Lk 10:16 Jn 21:17 Jn 16:13 acts 2:42

Nature of doctrine:

Truth or doctrine MUST be Revealed by God And Proposed by the church for belief, not spiritual pride and self-righteous private judgement!
Claim: “scripture alone”
It’s really just the ugly repugnant pride!
It’s no faith at all only spiritual pride and self-righteous private judgement!
They Hope in creatures not in God!

It is unlawful to refuse to accept a truth revealed by God!

Matt 28:19 eph 4:5 Jude 1:3

Truth matters! It is revealed by God and therefore CANNOT be changed!
The church likewise is founded by Christ and therefore CANNOT be reformed!

 

[theefaith]

idolatry is forbidden yes

Proving That Mary is not a goddess and this tittle does not apply to Mary most holy, ever virgin mother of God!

Lk 1:28 Hail, Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee, blessed art thou amounts women.

How can a goddess be full of grace?
Hail Mary full of grace!

How can the Lord be with a goddess?
The lord is with thee!

How can a goddess be blessed!
Blessed art thou, and all generations shall call me blessed!

Lk 1: 43 And whence is this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?

How can a goddess be the mother of God?

Lk 1: 45 And blessed is she that believed: for there shall be a performance of those things which were told her from the Lord.

How could a goddess be faithful?

Lk 1: 46 And Mary said, My soul doth magnify the Lord,

47 And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour.

How could a goddess glorify God or have a savior?

Lk 1:48 For he hath regarded the low estate of his handmaiden: for, behold, from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed.

How could a goddess be humble?

Lk 1:49 For he that is mighty hath done to me great things; and holy is his name.

How could a goddess be the immaculate conception and the have the Holy Spirit accomplish the Miraculous conception of Jesus?

Matt 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.

22 Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying,

23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

How could a goddess be a perpetual Virgin bringing forth the savior of the world?

Jn 19:27 Then saith he to the disciple, Behold thy mother! And from that hour that disciple took her unto his own home.

How could a goddess be our spiritual mother?

Only a heretical fundamentalists brainwashing can say so!

A good tree!

Matthew 7:18
A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

The fruit of the tree of Mary is our salvation! Lk 2:30 Jesus is our salvation!
Lk 1:30 Mary found our salvation!

Behold thy mother!

 

[Moriah's Song]

Lk 1:28 Hail, Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee, blessed art thou amounts women.

Only the Roman Catholic Bible invented the term "full of grace" because they used the Aramaic bible that was then translated into Latin. At the time of Jesus, the Middle East spoke koine Greek which is what the Jews spoke at that time and the Septuagint is what all other Bibles are based on. Out of over 80 bible versions, none used "full of grace." They all used "favored."

Luke 1:28..."And he came to her and said, "Hail, O favored one, the Lord is with you!"​

 

[Moriah's Song]

From post #599...
Moriah's Song said: ↑
Rev 5:8...And when he had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each holding a harp, and with golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints;

The prayers of the saints are those saints who are on earth praying up to the Father.

Those prayers to Mary are not a part of them because they were sent to the wrong person.
*****************************************************************************

where does it say that in that verse

it says the saints and that’s all the saints

Once again,.....
Where does "it" say that in that verse? What do you mean by "it?"

"IT" what?[/QUOTE]

 

[Pearl]

From post #599...
Moriah's Song said: ↑
Rev 5:8...And when he had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each holding a harp, and with golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints;

The prayers of the saints are those saints who are on earth praying up to the Father.

Those prayers to Mary are not a part of them because they were sent to the wrong person.
*****************************************************************************
Once again,.....
Where does "it" say that in that verse? What do you mean by "it?"

"IT" what?

[/QUOTE]
@Moriah's Song - Most Catholics will never conform to the true Gospel. Their church's doctrines and traditions are far to important to be set aside in favour of the truth. They prefer to stick to 'the truth' they have been taught for centuries. It's a real shame and the enemy will be rubbing his hands together in glee as he keeps these poor souls bound and in chains.

 

[theefaith]

The apostles ensured that there would be a plurality of faithful elders in each and every church (Titus 1:5-9 and other passages). And that they in turn would teach faithful men, who would then become elders to replace them. But all the NT churches were autonomous (not accountable directly to anyone but Christ, as seen in Revelation 1-3), and each church was under the oversight of only elders (also called pastors or bishops). As you will note in the NT, there was no single man appointed as "bishop" over the elders.

There was always a plurality of elders in each church, so that one man would not take pre-eminence. Unfortunately, this pattern was broken very shortly after the apostles passed on. Later the church of Rome falsely claimed that Peter (the apostle to the Jews) became the bishop of Rome, and therefore the Roman Catholic Church was to have "apostolic succession" through its bishops, with the pope as the successor to Peter. But there was no Scriptural basis for this, and the Eastern Orthodox churches refused to accept the pre-eminence of Rome.

"The Eastern Orthodox Church is opposed to the Roman Catholic doctrine of papal supremacy. While not denying that primacy does exist for the Bishop of Rome, Eastern Orthodox Christians argue that the tradition of Rome's primacy in the early Church was not equivalent to the current doctrine of supremacy."-- Wikipedia

why the keys of jurisdictional authority? Mt 16:18-19

 

[Moriah's Song]

Saints were in the Old Testament:

Psa 85:8...Let me hear what God the LORD will speak, for he will speak peace to his people, to his saints, to those who turn to him in their hearts.​

Who is our intercessor here? Not Mary!

Rom 8:27...And he who searches the hearts of men knows what is the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints according to the will of God.​

This amazing account indicates that those bodies entered the New Jerusalem as "saints." These "saints" of the OT entered the New Jerusalem before Mary died. Are they our intercessors too???

Mat 27:52...the tombs also were opened, and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised,​

What about Tabitha who died and was raised by Peter?

Act 9:36...Now there was at Joppa a disciple named Tabitha, which means Dorcas. She was full of good works and acts of charity.
Act 9:41...And he gave her his hand and lifted her up. Then calling the saints and widows he presented her alive.​

There were "saints" in Rome prior to the RCC of which Paul converted.

Rom 15:25 At present, however, I am going to Jerusalem with aid for the saints.
Rom 16:15...Greet Philol'ogus, Julia, Nereus and his sister, and Olym'pas, and all the saints who are with them.​

The Corinthian church had living "saints" there too!

1Co 1:2...To the church of God which is at Corinth, to those sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints together with all those who in every place call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, both their Lord and ours:​

The Ephesian church had faithful "saints" there also!

Eph 1:1...Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, To the saints who are also faithful in Christ Jesus:​

The Philippians had plenty of "saints" there too!

Phl 1:1...Paul and Timothy, servants of Christ Jesus, To all the saints in Christ Jesus who are at Philip'pi, with the bishops and deacons:​

Paul's letter to the Colossians indicates that "grace" was a form of greeting to the "faithful saints."

Col 1:2...To the saints and faithful brethren in Christ at Colossae: Grace to you and peace from God our Father.
​

Lastly, Paul cared for the saints from Thessalonica and those who would be with Christ on the Last Day.

1Th 3:13...so that he may establish your hearts unblamable in holiness before our God and Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus with all his saints.​

Therefore, there were OT saints, NT saints, and heavenly saints; but nothing about Mary being a SPECIAL saint!

Rev 22:21...The grace of the Lord Jesus be with all the saints. Amen.​

 

[Moriah's Song]

no one after Jesus has been more faithful than Mary Lk 1:45

Oh, I think you spoke too quickly!

Act 11:23...When he came and saw the grace of God, he was glad; and he exhorted them all to remain faithful to the Lord with steadfast purpose;

Act 16:15...And when she was baptized, with her household, she besought us, saying, "If you have judged me to be faithful to the Lord, come to my house and stay." And she prevailed upon us.

1Co 4:17...Therefore I sent to you Timothy, my beloved and faithful child in the Lord, to remind you of my ways in Christ, as I teach them everywhere in every church.

Eph 1:1...Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, To the saints who are also faithful in Christ Jesus:

Eph 6:21...Now that you also may know how I am and what I am doing, Tych'icus the beloved brother and faithful minister in the Lord will tell you everything.

Col 1:2...To the saints and faithful brethren in Christ at Colos'sae: Grace to you and peace from God our Father.

Col 1:7...as you learned it from Ep'aphras our beloved fellow servant. He is a faithful minister of Christ on our behalf

Col 4:7...Tych'icus will tell you all about my affairs; he is a beloved brother and faithful minister and fellow servant in the Lord.

Col 4:9...and with him Ones'imus, the faithful and beloved brother, who is one of yourselves. They will tell you of everything that has taken place here.

1Ti 1:12...I thank him who has given me strength for this, Christ Jesus our Lord, because he judged me faithful by appointing me to his service,

1Pe 5:12...By Silva'nus, a faithful brother as I regard him, I have written briefly to you, exhorting and declaring that this is the true grace of God; stand fast in it.​

 

[Taken]

Dead no!

1. John 11:25
   Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
   
   no one after Jesus has been more faithful than Mary Lk 1:45

Can dead people hear was the question.
The answer is no.
A person is the body.

Ecc 5:
[5] For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing....

Why quote John 11:25, which is speaking of a living soul, of a living spirit?

Don’t you know the difference?

Then you say:

” no one after Jesus has been more faithful than Mary “

And you add to your quote...a reference “Luke 1:45”.

Why add that reference? Luke 1:45 does not verify what you said.

Twisting the truth does not support your claim.
Luke 1:45 says nothing about Mary being more faithful than anyone else!

Luke 1:
[45] And blessed is she that believed: for there shall be a performance of those things which were told her from the Lord.

Why do you pray to the dead? They don’t hear you.
Why do you think Mary was more faithful than any other person?
Scripture doesn’t say any such thing.

Is shines as a poor reflection on Catholics when you have to Twist the truth, to make a point.

 

[theefaith]

I have never seen anyone as obsessed with Mary than you are.

Mary & Eve!

Eve was of the First creation: carnal
Mary of the New creation: spiritual

Eve the cos of Sin and curse disobeyed God! Gen 3:12
Mary cos of salvation, Lk 1:30 & consented to our salvation Lk 1:38 obeyed God & found our salvation Lk 1:30

Eve mourned:
Mary rejoiced: Lk 1:46

Eve gave birth to the all sinners: mother of all the living. Gen 3:20
Mary to the savior of all men: mother of all living in Christ. Jn 19:26-27 rev 12:17

Mary the mother of God! Lk 1:43

Eve brought punishment: gen 3:16
Mary salvation: Lk 1:30 & 38 Lk 2:30

Eve source of sin: gen 3:16
Mary source of grace: Lk 1:30 & 38

Eve brought death: gen 3:19
Mary life: Jn 1:16-17 & Jn 10:10

Eve only wounds & suffering: gen 3:19
Mary healing:

Eve infidelity: gen 3:6
Mary faithfulness: Lk 1:45

Eve offended the Lord: gen 3:6-7
Mary’s soul (being) doth magnify the Lord: Lk 1:46

Eve cursed: gen 3:17-19
Mary blessed: Lk 1:28

Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee, blessed art thou among women!
Lk 1:28



Sirach 24
Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition

24 I am the mother of fair love, and of fear, and of knowledge, and of holy hope.
25 In me is all grace of the way and of the truth, in me is all hope of life and of virtue.
26 Come over to me, all ye that desire me, and be filled with my fruits.
27 For my spirit is sweet above honey, and my inheritance above honey and the honeycomb.
28 My memory is unto everlasting generations.
(I know this scripture is deleted by the tradition of men in the KJV)


The Dove, & rainbow signs of peace are types of Mary mother of our salvation who obtained peace for all men!

Song of Solomon 1:2
Smelling sweet of the best ointments. Thy name is as oil poured out: therefore young maidens have loved thee.
Oil heals and fuels the flame, and is the fruit of the olive (peace) so the name of Mary is our peace, and healing, and fire of divine love!

Proverbs 8:35
He that shall find me, shall find life, and shall have salvation from the Lord:

And hundreds more, you will find in the excellent book by Saint Alphonse Lugosi the glories of Mary!

Lk 1:45 all generations shall call me blessed!

Actually this is an exultation of thanksgiving for having obtain thier eternal salvation!

Mary and all the saints grace, virtues, and merits are from God’s infinite goodness mercy and love and they end in the God glory!

HOLY Church, speaking of the most Blessed Virgin, says that she went up from the desert of this world flowing with delights, leaning upon her Beloved. In fact, all the praises bestowed upon
the Saints, and upon Mary in particular, terminate in Christ our Lord ; because all these praises should be directed to the glory of her Divine Son, Who led her by His grace to the most exalted degree of merit and happiness. It is related in Scripture that the Queen of Saba, taking a multitude of gifts to Jerusalem, offered them all to Solomon. It is thus that all the saints act and the Mother of God especially. She is ever attentive to recognise that her virtues, her perfections, her merits, and her happiness proceed from the mercy of her Divine Son, Who is alone their source, their origin, and perfection : Soli Deo honor et gloria. All honour and glory to God alone; all should return to Him, because from Him alone is every perfect gift.

lk 1:49

 

[Moriah's Song]

@theefaith....Psssst! Obsession is not a virtue according to God's word....dedication is but not obsession.

I'd say that 28+ different threads on the internet about Mary etc. is warranted for using the word excessive "obsession."

 

[theefaith]

Only the Roman Catholic Bible invented the term "full of grace" because they used the Aramaic bible that was then translated into Latin. At the time of Jesus, the Middle East spoke koine Greek which is what the Jews spoke at that time and the Septuagint is what all other Bibles are based on. Out of over 80 bible versions, none used "full of grace." They all used "favored."

Luke 1:28..."And he came to her and said, "Hail, O favored one, the Lord is with you!"​

try again

Luke 1:28
Wycliffe Bible

28 And the angel entered to her, and said, Hail, full of grace; the Lord is with thee; blessed be thou among women.

Not a catholic version

 

[theefaith]

From post #599...
Moriah's Song said: ↑
Rev 5:8...And when he had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each holding a harp, and with golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints;

The prayers of the saints are those saints who are on earth praying up to the Father.

Those prayers to Mary are not a part of them because they were sent to the wrong person.
*****************************************************************************
Once again,.....
Where does "it" say that in that verse? What do you mean by "it?"

"IT" what?

[/QUOTE]

that it refers only those living in earth

 

[theefaith]

Oh, I think you spoke too quickly!

Act 11:23...When he came and saw the grace of God, he was glad; and he exhorted them all to remain faithful to the Lord with steadfast purpose;

Act 16:15...And when she was baptized, with her household, she besought us, saying, "If you have judged me to be faithful to the Lord, come to my house and stay." And she prevailed upon us.

1Co 4:17...Therefore I sent to you Timothy, my beloved and faithful child in the Lord, to remind you of my ways in Christ, as I teach them everywhere in every church.

Eph 1:1...Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, To the saints who are also faithful in Christ Jesus:

Eph 6:21...Now that you also may know how I am and what I am doing, Tych'icus the beloved brother and faithful minister in the Lord will tell you everything.

Col 1:2...To the saints and faithful brethren in Christ at Colos'sae: Grace to you and peace from God our Father.

Col 1:7...as you learned it from Ep'aphras our beloved fellow servant. He is a faithful minister of Christ on our behalf

Col 4:7...Tych'icus will tell you all about my affairs; he is a beloved brother and faithful minister and fellow servant in the Lord.

Col 4:9...and with him Ones'imus, the faithful and beloved brother, who is one of yourselves. They will tell you of everything that has taken place here.

1Ti 1:12...I thank him who has given me strength for this, Christ Jesus our Lord, because he judged me faithful by appointing me to his service,

1Pe 5:12...By Silva'nus, a faithful brother as I regard him, I have written briefly to you, exhorting and declaring that this is the true grace of God; stand fast in it.​

what happened to rom 3:23?

 

[theefaith]

Mary is not omnipresent and omniscient. only God is.. Those are attributes of God are God's alone. It is blasphemy to put her on the same level of God. If God can hear you , there would be no need for Mary to.

spiritual communication
Gift of knowledge

even those in hell can communicate spiritually!

 

[theefaith]

So pray to HE who ordained it , not to the created , but to the creator . Hurry thee faith and cease from all prayers
to saints , to mary and to angels .

why does he pray to saint abraham!

Luke 16:24
And he cried and said, FatherAbraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

 

[Enoch111]

why the keys of jurisdictional authority? Mt 16:18-19

That was strictly for the apostles. You will not find anything in the Bible where they handed that APOSTOLIC authority to the elders.

 

[Cassandra]

If God can hear your prayers, then why do you need another intercessor? Jesus is our only intercessor, and no folks in Abrahams bosom can hear anything? Why do you give to man the characteristics of God? This is exactly why the Rich man is a parable. Only God is omniscient.
God is omnipresent as well. Don't not give man the characteristics of God. Do not take away from the Lord.

And the gift of knowledge is not omniscience. God gives knowledge as a gift for some members of His church as He did the gift of Helps. People with the gift of knowledge in the church are often the teachers of others. Has nothing to do with taking on a characteristic of God. You've got to know this.


.

 

[amigo de christo]

That lake of fire will be for all who loved and made a lie .
Thee faith you must flee the CC my friend .
You are twisting scrips now to fit your beloved CC . I know you beleive
the apostels are in that church . BUT NO they are not .
They have been desiring the worship for days , weeks , months , years , decades , centuries and etc .
They loved to have the pre eminence . They had men bowing down to them and kissing rings
and teaching all kinds of doctrines to put fear into people and keeping them far from biblical sound doctrine .
So as they could control them . That church got very rich DOING just that
SO too have our false prosperity gospel preachers . You must flee the tabernacles of the CC .
And begin afresh and anew in the bible . Hurry thee faith and dont look back .
You are doing everything now to preach your salvation by faith in THE CC
but i will stick to salvation IN JESUS alone . On the last day one of us will cringe in terror before the LORD .
IF you will simply go back into the bible and really dig into it , It wont take long before you see Just which one of us
has been decieved . GO back into that bible and stay well fed in it . HURRY thee faith and i will be praying for you .
One thing i can say , ON the day of the LORD your blood wont be on my hands . Cause i did what i could to point you
back to the true faith , back to the beginning and so far you refuse this .