Why did our Redeemer need to be both God and Man?

[face2face]

Why should I do anything you ask of me when you have yet to do what I asked of you? Until you address post #79, I have no reason to respond to anything else by you.

You have failed to deal with all of the text including Romans 8:1-3.

You have however copied and pasted an unknown source which had nothing at all to do with that section of Scripture and its content.

I've moved onto another thread, where others are more responsive and engaging without the repetitive reposting that seems to tickle your fancy, lol.

If you want to engage feel free to deal with all those posts which are aimed squarely at you and your man-made teaching.

F2F

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

I gave my three-part explanation of Rom. 8:1-4. In reply, you claimed it wasn't. So, I said, "If you read all three parts, then explain what it's about, if you want to substantiate your assertion that it doesn't have to do with Rom. 8:1-4." You refused.

If you decide to do that, as well as address everything else in post #79, then I'll have reason to address other verses you cited.

Sorry sir, the clandestine approach to posting material gathered from a false prophetess, Maria Valtorta, then PM-ing me about it (as a "Sssshhhh ... don't tell anyone") because of the backlash and rejections you have received in the past about her, just won't fly. I am not going to give you a pass.


Mary Valtorta is considered a false prophet by the Catholic Church. Although a talented writer, but more in the vain of fiction, she turned her talents into prolific fictional narratives _ about Jesus.

The "Poem of the Man-God" is in this tradition of apocryphal literature on New Testament themes. Valtorta claimed that she was the "secretary" of Jesus and Mary, and was setting down the divinely inspired truth about Jesus' life. The Church has rejected this claim.

in 1949, two commissioners of the Holy Office, Msgr. Giovanni Pepe and Father Berruti, O.P., condemned the "Poem," ordering Berti to hand over every copy and sign an agreement not to publish it. Father Berti returned the manuscripts to Valtorta and handed over only his typed versions.
It was considered a " Badly Fictionalized Life of Jesus Christ"

Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger has declared, the 1966 abolition of The Index of Forbidden Books in no way sanitizes previously banned works, including the Poem. In 1994, Ratzinger’s office issued another statement through the apostolic nuncio in Canada reiterating its judgment that Valtorta’s works are simply fiction: “These writings cannot be recognized as being of supernatural origin.”

Furthermore, on April 17, 1993, the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith directed the Italian Bishops’ Conference to order this disclaimer placed in future re-issues of the Poem: “…the ‘visions’ and ‘dictations’ referred to in it are simply literary forms used by the author to narrate in her own way the life of Jesus. They cannot be considered supernatural in origin.”

 

[LuxMundy]

Sorry sir, the clandestine approach to posting material gathered from a false prophetess, Maria Valtorta, then PM-ing me about it (as a "Sssshhhh ... don't tell anyone") because of the backlash and rejections you have received in the past about her, just won't fly. I am not going to give you a pass.


Mary Valtorta is considered a false prophet by the Catholic Church. Although a talented writer, but more in the vain of fiction, she turned her talents into prolific fictional narratives _ about Jesus.

The "Poem of the Man-God" is in this tradition of apocryphal literature on New Testament themes. Valtorta claimed that she was the "secretary" of Jesus and Mary, and was setting down the divinely inspired truth about Jesus' life. The Church has rejected this claim.

in 1949, two commissioners of the Holy Office, Msgr. Giovanni Pepe and Father Berruti, O.P., condemned the "Poem," ordering Berti to hand over every copy and sign an agreement not to publish it. Father Berti returned the manuscripts to Valtorta and handed over only his typed versions.
It was considered a " Badly Fictionalized Life of Jesus Christ"

Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger has declared, the 1966 abolition of The Index of Forbidden Books in no way sanitizes previously banned works, including the Poem. In 1994, Ratzinger’s office issued another statement through the apostolic nuncio in Canada reiterating its judgment that Valtorta’s works are simply fiction: “These writings cannot be recognized as being of supernatural origin.”

Furthermore, on April 17, 1993, the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith directed the Italian Bishops’ Conference to order this disclaimer placed in future re-issues of the Poem: “…the ‘visions’ and ‘dictations’ referred to in it are simply literary forms used by the author to narrate in her own way the life of Jesus. They cannot be considered supernatural in origin.”

First, I'm a woman, not a man. Second, it's a lie that I told you not to tell anyone that God's spokesperson Maria Valtorta was my source in my PM to you, and I'll prove it. The following is what I said to you in my PM:

"Part I-III in posts #68-70 aren't my words, but rather the One Who's greater than the greatest human theologian. Over the course of a couple years, the Holy Spirit dictated His explanations for every chapter and verse in Paul's Epistle to the Romans to His spokesperson Maria Valtorta. The explanation of Rom. 8:1-4 that I recited was dictated to her by Him on June 12th-June 14th in 1948. These dictations were later published under the title Lessons on the Epistle of St. Paul to the Romans. See the links in my signature.

I'm replying to you with this information privately because for over ten years I had publicly cited God as the source following quoted excerpts, but most of the time, after people learned that Maria Valtorta was a Catholic, the writings were automatically rejected, and the main focus became attacking His spokesperson. The main focus is the message He is conveying through her. Therefore, I decided to share God's words, and if someone who reads them is open to that knowledge, I will inform them privately that the source is God, direct them to the proof for this, and leave it to them to do with it what they will, just as I have done with you.

If you have any questions, please don't hesitate to ask. Peace and the Holy Spirit be with you."

It's also a lie that the Catholic Church ruled Maria Valtorta a false prophetess. In fact, her writings have been approved to be published, read, and promoted, and they left it up to each individual to decide for themselves if it's of supernatural origin. The cause of beatification of Maria Valtorta is not yet open, although many members of the Church (including popes) have taken a stand in its favor. Since 2019, the Church has begun the process of proclaiming Maria Valtorta Venerable. Again, see the links in my signature which also address her writngs and the Index.

You're not the first who has poorly researched Maria Valtorta, and you won't be the last.

Okay, you are not using AI. Emmm ... Are your posts all your material (excluding the obvious Greek/Strongs stuff; or are you cutting and pasting theological writings of others? Just sounds like it has an Augustinaian style or even from Apostles creed early writing styles.

>>> "It is Humanity once again who is shaken with perturbations and remorses, by doubts and assertions, and who must be confirmed in Faith, who is present when between the shaking of the second earthquake, the Man Who was killed rises as the Sepulchre empties itself of the Living One vainly killed and who has the reply of the God One and Trine, a placating or distressing reply on the Man from Nazareth."

Is that your writing????
Whether your views are right or wrong; and if those are your words, you are a talented writer.
If so, you are wasting your talents on this board, should be writing books, teaching, preaching.

As I said to you in the PM, those aren't my words, but rather your high praise belongs to the One Who's greater than the greatest human theologian: the Holy Spirit, for He dictated those words to His spokesperson Maria Valtorta on June 12th-June 14th in 1948.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

First, I'm a woman, not a man. Second, it's a lie that I told you not to tell anyone that God's spokesperson Maria Valtorta was my source in my PM to you, and I'll prove it. The following is what I said to you in my PM:

"Part I-III in posts #68-70 aren't my words, but rather the One Who's greater than the greatest human theologian. Over the course of a couple years, the Holy Spirit dictated His explanations for every chapter and verse in Paul's Epistle to the Romans to His spokesperson Maria Valtorta. The explanation of Rom. 8:1-4 that I recited was dictated to her by Him on June 12th-June 14th in 1948. These dictations were later published under the title Lessons on the Epistle of St. Paul to the Romans. See the links in my signature.

I'm replying to you with this information privately because for over ten years I had publicly cited God as the source following quoted excerpts, but most of the time, after people learned that Maria Valtorta was a Catholic, the writings were automatically rejected, and the main focus became attacking His spokesperson. The main focus is the message He is conveying through her. Therefore, I decided to share God's words, and if someone who reads them is open to that knowledge, I will inform them privately that the source is God, direct them to the proof for this, and leave it to them to do with it what they will, just as I have done with you.

If you have any questions, please don't hesitate to ask. Peace and the Holy Spirit be with you."

It's also a lie that the Catholic Church ruled Maria Valtorta a false prophetess. In fact, her writings have been approved to be published, read, and promoted, and they left it up to each individual to decide for themselves if it's of supernatural origin. The cause of beatification of Maria Valtorta is not yet open, although many members of the Church (including popes) have taken a stand in its favor. Since 2019, the Church has begun the process of proclaiming Maria Valtorta Venerable. Again, see the links in my signature which also address her writngs and the Index.

You're not the first who has poorly researched Maria Valtorta, and you won't be the last.



As I said to you in the PM, those aren't my words, but rather your high praise belongs to the One Who's greater than the greatest human theologian: the Holy Spirit, for He dictated those words to His spokesperson Maria Valtorta on June 12th-June 14th 1948.

I don't lie. Your secretive message implied that you don't want others to know who wrote these writings because most reject her as a genuine prophet. The Bible is complete as it is. We do not need extra fictionalized stories about Jesus! If God thought we needed more truth, He would have given it to the prophets and it would have been in our Bibles ( the one with 66 books btw). I do believe the Holy Spirit guides each individual personally and uniquely on their journey.
Are there present day prophets giving extra- Biblical words as in " Thus says the Lord ..."? No I don't think so. The Bible is sufficient!
Also the information/ critiques that I shared was from Catholic sources, stating it was fiction, therefore she is a false prophet whom you are duped by - along with the many other real Catholic beliefs and practices that are not Biblical. We can go back and forth about them as well, but there is not need, it's a futile argument.
There are some Catholics in this forum who may receive Maria Valtorta as legit- good luck with that - but direct it towards them and be transparent and honest, not sneeky.
The Holy Spirit is in me, the Father and the Son - just not Mary and I have been living and growing spiritually just fine without her or your so-called saints you pray to. I'll meet them in heaven someday, brothers and sisters, like all the others, no greater, no lesser spiritually.
People who know me, know that I do defend Catholics and the Pope as well as faithful believing Christians. Unfortunately you'll find some hostile opponents on this forum. I just had it out with someone who thinks the Pope is the Antichrist and the Catholic Church, the harlot on Rev. 13! Yep, there are some unfriendly folks who call themselves Christians ... anti-semitic too.

Peace to you Sister

 

[LuxMundy]

I don't lie. Your secretive message implied that you don't want others to know who wrote these writings [...]

That's not what you said. You said my PM to you implied, "Sssshhhh ... don't tell anyone", which is a lie because I didn't imply that I didn't want you to tell anyone, but rather you know that I explained my reason for my not wanting to reveal the source to certain people publicly. And, I told you to do with the knowledge what you will.

There are some Catholics in this forum who may receive Maria Valtorta as legit- good luck with that - but direct it towards them and be transparent and honest, not sneeky.

The words dictated to Maria Valtorta by Jesus and other heavenly persons aren't just for Catholics, but rather all people. And, for over 10 years I have publicly cited the source following every excerpt from her writings that I quote, but except for a couple people, everyone else wouldn't conduct a thorough research, if at all, and make false accusations, just as you did. See below:

Also the information/critiques that I shared was from Catholic sources, stating it was fiction, therefore she is a false prophet whom you are duped by [...]

So, I decided to only reveal the source to those in private who I think are receptive to the information, care about accuracy, and thorough research, which is why I contacted you in a PM, and at the end of my message said I leave you to do with the knowledge what you will. Unfortunately, you ended up responding like 99% of others who didn't conduct a thorough research, because like them you've already made it up in your mind that our living God is a mute.

Again, you're not the first who has poorly researched Maria Valtorta, and you won't be the last. Again, it's a lie that the Catholic Church ruled Maria Valtorta a false prophetess. In fact, her writings have been approved by the Church to be published, read, and promoted, and they left it up to each individual to decide for themselves if it's of supernatural origin. The cause of beatification of Maria Valtorta is not yet open, although many members of the Church (including popes) have taken a stand in its favor. Since 2019, the Church has begun the process of proclaiming Maria Valtorta Venerable. See the links in my signature which also address the history of her writings and the Index, if you care about accuracy.

The Bible is complete as it is. We do not need extra fictionalized stories about Jesus! If God thought we needed more truth, He would have given it to the prophets and it would have been in our Bibles ( the one with 66 books btw). I do believe the Holy Spirit guides each individual personally and uniquely on their journey. Are there present day prophets giving extra- Biblical words as in " Thus says the Lord ..."? No I don't think so. The Bible is sufficient!

On September 23, 1944, Jesus said to Maria Valtorta, "The order of the Gospels is good, but not perfect as a chronological order. A diligent observer notices that. He who could have given the exact order of events, having been with Me from the beginning of the Evangelization to My Ascension, did not do so, because John, a true son of the Light, devoted himself to and worried about making the Light shine brightly through its appearance of a Body in the eyes of the heretics, who contested the truth of the Divinity enclosed in a human body. John's sublime Gospel achieved its supernatural purpose, but the chronology of My public life has not been improved by it. The other three evangelists show resemblances to one another with regard to events, but they alter their order with regard to time, because only one of the three was present at almost all My public life: Matthew, and he wrote it only fifteen years later, whilst the others wrote theirs even later, after hearing the story from My Mother, from Peter, from other apostles and disciples. I want to give you a guide to collect together the events of the three years, year by year." (excerpt from The Poem of the Man-God: Vol. IV)

On October 17, 1944, in response to someone calling Maria Valtorta's The Gospel As It Was Revealed To Me, or The Poem of the Man-God the "5th Gospel," Jesus said, "Now we come to the so-called 5th gospel. There are four Gospels. Now I am explaining them in order to bring to light others which are lost or downplayed. But I am not creating another Gospel. There are four, four there will remain. Understood in detail or left in their broad outlines, four and no more." (excerpt from The Little Notebooks)

April 8, 1948, “The gaps in the four Gospels, those too strictly literal versions which have allowed the establishment of fertile ground for the plants of deceit, schisms, heresies, separations and denials; in twenty centuries you have not been able to fill those gaps in a way acceptable to minds that are ever more open to and more tempted by Satan who hates me. Those erroneous words, “Joseph did not know her until she gave birth,” and further on, “Mary’s firstborn; Jesus’s brothers; Mary’s sisters” which create confusion among the good and denial in the evil. Gaps and erroneous words that in twenty centuries you haven’t shown how to fill or substitute boldly but in a holy way, in order to save the faith and stop schisms and heresies. So after twenty centuries, and at the eve of the time of the spirit, the great battle between darkness and the Light, I have come to fill these gaps, to substitute them with true, acceptable words. I have come in defense of the Truth, of the life of the Church and the Way of God, which too many have lost.

And you block it! Just like those of old who always opposed Me and blocked My Work in their hearts; you look at the splinters and leave the beams. The weak in faith trip over the beams, and use them to make battering rams to attack the faith and you.

When was I ever loved in spirit and truth?

When did pride of life, a characteristic of ninety percent of the great ones in the Temple, accept My Word as unique and true? [...]” (excerpt from The Little Notebooks)

On May 8, 1948 Jesus said to Maria Valtorta, "The canonical Gospel is essential for believing and for saving oneself; but it is not a complete knowledge of Me." (excerpt from The Little Notebooks)

On February 22, 1949, Jesus said to Maria Valtorta, "I was already sufficiently described in the Gospels, the minimum necessary for the salvation of hearts. Mary was little known. Just an incomplete outline which left too much of Her in shadow. So now, I have revealed Her to you. I have given you this perfect story of my Mother." (excerpt from The Little Notebooks)

Okay, you are not using AI. Emmm ... Are your posts all your material (excluding the obvious Greek/Strongs stuff; or are you cutting and pasting theological writings of others? Just sounds like it has an Augustinaian style or even from Apostles creed early writing styles.

>>> "It is Humanity once again who is shaken with perturbations and remorses, by doubts and assertions, and who must be confirmed in Faith, who is present when between the shaking of the second earthquake, the Man Who was killed rises as the Sepulchre empties itself of the Living One vainly killed and who has the reply of the God One and Trine, a placating or distressing reply on the Man from Nazareth."

Is that your writing????
Whether your views are right or wrong; and if those are your words, you are a talented writer.
If so, you are wasting your talents on this board, should be writing books, teaching, preaching.

As I said to you in the PM, those aren't my words, but your high praise is true, and without realizing it, you're attributing it to the One Who's greater than the greatest human theologian: the Holy Spirit, for He dictated those words to His spokesperson Maria Valtorta on June 12th-June 14th in 1948.

The Holy Spirit is in me, the Father and the Son - just not Mary and I have been living and growing spiritually just fine without her or your so-called saints you pray to. I'll meet them in heaven someday, brothers and sisters, like all the others, no greater, no lesser spiritually.
People who know me, know that I do defend Catholics and the Pope as well as faithful believing Christians. Unfortunately you'll find some hostile opponents on this forum. I just had it out with someone who thinks the Pope is the Antichrist and the Catholic Church, the harlot on Rev. 13! Yep, there are some unfriendly folks who call themselves Christians ... anti-semitic too.

Many people have misconceptions about the Catholic Church, including yourself, but that can be remedied if you want. Thank you for defending when you feel it's right.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

You said my PM to you implied, "Sssshhhh ... don't tell anyone," which is a lie

I used "as a ssshh ...". That is a figure of speech called simile - if you were a good writer you would know that and undersand.

Unfortunately, you ended up responding like 99.9% of others who didn't conduct a thorough research

Doesn't that tell you something? 1 out of 1000 people take her stuff seriously. So you tried for 10 years to share her fiction - what a waste of time. Don't you have better things to do, like spreading the real gospel and true stories if Chriat that we get from THE WORD OF GOD?

Again, it's a lie that the Catholic Church ruled Maria Valtorta a false prophetess

in 1949, two commissioners of the Holy Office, Msgr. Giovanni Pepe and Father Berruti, O.P., condemned the "Poem," ordering Berti to hand over every copy and sign an agreement not to publish it. Father Berti returned the manuscripts to Valtorta and handed over only his typed versions.
It was considered a " Badly Fictionalized Life of Jesus Christ"

Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger has declared, the 1966 abolition of The Index of Forbidden Books in no way sanitizes previously banned works, including the Poem. In 1994, Ratzinger’s office issued another statement through the apostolic nuncio in Canada reiterating its judgment that "Valtorta’s works are simply fiction."

IF she claimed her writings were God's word, she's the liar. These commissions, priest, and a Cardinal declared it fiction which certainly implies she us a false prophetess!
The remember 100 % of what a prophet says must be true. If not, they were stoned to death.
Also remember, what the Holy teaches does not go out void. His work is successful and so the true test of Maria Valtorta's writing is it's success. God has been successful in spreading through His chosen vessels, the Gospel. 2.7 billion Christians believe in Jesus - that's powerful and right on course with His plan. Imagine Jesus dendingnPaulnout there to spread the Word and only 1 in 1000 took interested? Paul probably would have given up Peter too.
Oh well, Jesus himself will sit you down one day_ in heaven_ and tell you the real truth.

 

[LuxMundy]

Part I

I used "as a ssshh ...". That is a figure of speech called simile - if you were a good writer you would know that and undersand.

Again, you said I PM"d you about Maria Valtorta "(as a "Sssshhhh...don't tell anyone"), which is a lie because I didn't imply that I didn't want you to tell anyone about her, but rather you know that I explained my reason for my not wanting to reveal the source to certain people publicly. And, I told you to do with that knowledge what you will.

Doesn't that tell you something? 1 out of 1000 people take her stuff seriously.

I haven't introduced Maria Valtorta to nearly 1,000 people over the course of 10 years. However many people I've come into contact with over that time, 99% of them didn't thoroughly research Maria Valtorta once they heard of her, including you. It tells me those people fear and lack faith, as in they're afraid that they won't be able to discern anything claimed to be of God outside of The Bible, and that they don't trust that God would make it known who His true spokespersons are.

So you tried for 10 years to share her fiction - what a waste of time. Don't you have better things to do, like spreading the real gospel and true stories if Chriat that we get from THE WORD OF GOD?

I share anything God speaks, because unlike you and others, I don't limit our God to The Bible, and I know that He isn't a living mute. It's never a waste of time to share the words of God, it makes me happy, because I'm doing what He wants, and it's for a good purpose, and the gift, if accepted, profits good things to further help a soul to better serve God and others on Earth, and be with Him in Heaven. Therefore, if I die having lead one soul to accept any of the loving gifts of knowledge through His spokespersons throughout the centuries, then praise God.

Okay, you are not using AI. Emmm ... Are your posts all your material (excluding the obvious Greek/Strongs stuff; or are you cutting and pasting theological writings of others? Just sounds like it has an Augustinaian style or even from Apostles creed early writing styles.

>>> "It is Humanity once again who is shaken with perturbations and remorses, by doubts and assertions, and who must be confirmed in Faith, who is present when between the shaking of the second earthquake, the Man Who was killed rises as the Sepulchre empties itself of the Living One vainly killed and who has the reply of the God One and Trine, a placating or distressing reply on the Man from Nazareth."

Is that your writing????
Whether your views are right or wrong; and if those are your words, you are a talented writer.
If so, you are wasting your talents on this board, should be writing books, teaching, preaching.

As I said to you in the PM, those aren't my words, but your high praise is true, and without realizing it, you're attributing it to the One Who's greater than the greatest human theologian: the Holy Spirit, for He dictated those words to His spokesperson Maria Valtorta on June 12th-June 14th in 1948.

 

[LuxMundy]

Part II

[Sigh]

You need to thoroughly research Maria Valtorta and the history of her writings.

in 1949, two commissioners of the Holy Office, Msgr. Giovanni Pepe and Father Berruti, O.P., condemned the "Poem," ordering Berti to hand over every copy and sign an agreement not to publish it. Father Berti returned the manuscripts to Valtorta and handed over only his typed versions.

A lot has happened since then, which you need to read: Is the Poem of the Man-God by Maria Valtorta approved?

It was considered a " Badly Fictionalized Life of Jesus Christ"

You're referring to The Decree of Condemnation published in L'Osservatore Romano on January 6, 1960, accompanied by a front-page, anonymously written article under the heading "A Badly Fictionalized Life of Jesus". However, since then, the writings have been approved to be published and so on.

See below though the English translations of the Decree of Condemnation and the anonymous explanatory letter (the gray text), as well as the responses to them (the blue text).

Was The Poem of the Man-God Condemned by the Catholic Church?

Was Maria Valtorta's Poem condemned by the Church? Did the Holy Office, under Cardinal Ottaviani, contradict past popes? A traditional perspective and analysis of the alleged apparitions.

www.maria-valtorta.net

Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger has declared, the 1966 abolition of The Index of Forbidden Books in no way sanitizes previously banned works, including the Poem. In 1994, Ratzinger’s office issued another statement through the apostolic nuncio in Canada reiterating its judgment that "Valtorta’s works are simply fiction."

"Juridic Import of Subsequent Letters from Prelates
In the decades following the Index’s abrogation Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger and Bishop Dionigi Tettamanzi wrote letters recalling that Valtorta’s work had been placed on the Index and reiterating the Index’s enduring moral value. Other prelates wrote letters in support of the work. We will now briefly examine the juridic import of these documents."

"The Index no longer has the force of ecclesiastical law; therefore when one chooses to read, publish, or promote the Poem there is no violation of ecclesiastical law. The various letters issued by prelates in the decades following the abrogation of the Index on the subject of the Poem are not (with the exception of the imprimatur granted by Bishop Pakiam), juridically binding. Hence a Catholic is permitted to think and act in ways different from the opinions expressed therein. For example, a Catholic who believes the Poem to be of supernatural origin or promotes it as such is not being disobedient to Bishop Tettamanzi’s letter, for the letter has no juridic weight."

Source: https://www.valtorta.org.au/JCL-Thesis-on-the-Index-and-Valtorta.pdf

The remember 100 % of what a prophet says must be true. If not, they were stoned to death.

Remember John's words: "But there are also many other things which Jesus did; which, if they were written every one, the world itself, I think, would not be able to contain the books that should be written." (Jn. 21:25)

• Proofs of the supernatural origin of Maria Valtorta’s visions described in her Work (pg. 188)

• Proof by astronomy (such as detailed astronomical observations over the course of hundreds of pages in her 1940's visions that a Purdue University professor of Theoretical Physics testified are remarkably consistent with her dating system and that she couldn't have predicted or verified without a computer) (pg. 191)

• Proof by geography, topography, and archaeology (including her describing Palestine and over 350 geographical locations in the Holy Land with a level of precision in multiple fields that she couldn't possibly have known without modern electronic scholastic resources or access to an extensive collection of books/atlases in the 1940's that eyewitnesses and common sense confirm she didn't–nor could've had–access to and which itself arguably would've been insufficient to complete her Work) (pg. 220)

• Proof of The Poem of the Man-God's knowledge, depth, and eminence in the theological, exegetical, mystical, and mariological fields (which many world-renowned trustworthy theologians say exceed anything they've ever read) (pg. 251)

• Proof by Maria Valtorta's detailed, exact, and often unparalleled knowledge of the political, religious, economic, social, and familial situation–as well as the dress–of the ancient Jewish, Samaritan, and Roman peoples that astound even world-renowned biblical scholars (pg. 257)

• Proof of The Poem of the Man-God's unquestionable expertise, deep knowledge, and exhaustive information on such a wide variety of theological and scientific subjects, and the fact that almost 15,000 handwritten pages of such were written in only 3½ years amidst her unusually severe physical condition and illnesses and even though she lacked the learning, resources, and books required to write a Work a tenth as profound as this (pg. 260)

• Proof of the extraordinary, unprecedented way in which The Poem of the Man-God was written, compiled, and put together (such as the fact that 166 out of the 647 chapters were written out of order, and she has Jesus ministering in over 350 named locations and traveling over 4,000 miles in six different cycles across Palestine, and yet Jesus and all the other 500+ characters are never in a place inconsistent with either the story line or the timing and distance necessities required for traveling, and there's not one person, place, or thing out of place) (pg. 297)

• Proof of The Poem of the Man-God's extraordinary purity, holiness, loftiness, and eminence among the writings that exist in the world (pg. 309)

• Proof (or a substantiating factor) by research that shows that The Poem of the Man-God isn't based on (or a mere expansion of) any known Gospel manuscript standard, version, or school of critical thought, something expected if a work of this magnitude, detail, and accuracy had been a mere human effort (pg. 312)

• Proof (or a substantiating factor) in how The Poem of the Man-God resolves many problems in the Gospel accounts which scholars have struggled with for years (including apparent contradictions between the different Gospel accounts and apparent errors or inconsistencies within the same Gospel account), and how it furthermore corrects certain misunderstandings and translation errors that have been perpetuated throughout the centuries (pg. 318)

• Proof (or a substantiating factor) of the fact that Maria Valtorta’s visions of Christ’s passion perfectly match detailed findings on the miraculous Shroud of Turin that recent modern scientific tests have revealed decades after her writings were published, and the fact that her writings foretold something amazing about the Veil of Veronica which has been scientifically proven for the first time decades after her death (pg. 343)

• Proof (or a substantiating factor) by its perfect correspondence to the ancient liturgical and patristic tradition of the ancient Catholic Byzantine Rite of the Church (pg. 364)

• Proof by the testimony of countless trustworthy clerics, authorities, experts, scientists, and pious lay faithful and the tremendously good fruits produced in individuals and in the Church as a whole (pg. 367)

Oh well, Jesus himself will sit you down one day_ in heaven_ and tell you the real truth.

Here's the beauty you're not allowing yourself to see: we don't have to wait until we're in Heaven to know truths. You can't comprehend the wealth of knowledge that Jesus has continued to give us over the centuries to the present day, and will continue to.

 

[Brakelite]

Why did our Redeemer need to be both God and Man?

God's foreknowledge, even before creation, informed the Father's and Son's decision to create despite the knowledge that sin would require an answer for creation to survive. That answer had to be agreed to between them both, before they started rolling the ball so to speak. The Father could not die, His immortality could not be laid aside. The Son however, if He laid aside all His divine attributes and He became human, could die to save the human race. Hence the gospel, prefigured throughout the OT beginning with the skins provided Adam and Eve, Abraham's son Isaac as a sacrifice, to the entire sanctuary calendar of feasts and rituals of Israel.

 

[Brakelite]

This raises an interesting question: Where, if not in heaven, were Abraham, Isaac and Jacob before Jesus "re-opened" heaven? I recall the account of Jesus saying they weren't dead. Matt. 22:32, Mark 12:26.

“(As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were. ”
Romans 4:17 KJV

Unfeigned Bible

Unfeigned Bible

www.unfeignedbible.app

 

[Brakelite]

Why did our Redeemer need to be both God and Man?

"Blessed are you among all women" (Lk. 1:42)

This blessing, which we say poorly or do not say at all, to Her Who with Her sacrifice began the Redemption, continually resounds in Heaven, pronounced with infinite love by the Trinity, with inflamed charity by those saved by their sacrifice, and by the angelic choirs. All paradise blesses Mary, the masterwork of universal Creation and Divine Mercy.

Even if all the Father's work to create the Earth from nothing had served only to receive Mary, the work of Creation would have had its reason for being, for the perfection of this Creature is such that it is testimony not only of the wisdom and power, but also of the love with which God created the world.

Since the earthly creation has instead yielded Adam and Adam's race, Mary witnesses to the merciful superlove of God towards man, for through Mary, Mother of the Redeemer, God has worked the salvation of the human race. Jesus is the Christ because Mary conceived Him and gave Him to the World.

Some will say that as God Jesus could have overcome the need to take flesh in a woman's womb. He could do all, it's true. But reflect on the law of order and goodness which lies in His annihilation in mortal clothing.

The sin committed by man had to be expiated by man and not by the non-incarnate divinity. How could the Divinity, incorporeal Spirit, redeem the sins of the flesh with the sacrifice of Itself? It was, then, necessary that God should pay for the sins of flesh and blood with the agony of an innocent Flesh and Blood, born of an innocent woman.

His mind, His feeling, and His Spirit would have suffered for our sins in mind, feeling, and spirit. But to be the Redemption of all forms of concupiscence inoculated into Adam and his descendants by the Tempter, the One Immolated for them all had to be endowed with a nature like ours, made worthy of being given as a ransom to God by the Divinity hidden in it, like a gem of infinite supernatural value hidden under common, natural clothing.

God is order, and God does not violate or do violence to order, except in very exceptional cases, judged useful by His intelligence. Such was not the case with His Redemption.

He had not only to cancel sin from the moment it occurred until the moment of the sacrifice and annul in those to come the effects of sin by having them be born unaware of evil. No. With a total sacrifice He had to make reparation for Sin and all the sins of all mankind, give the men already dead absolution of sin, and give those living at that time and in the future the means to be helped to resist evil and to be forgiven for the evil which their weakness would lead them to do.

His sacrifice thus had to be such as to present all the necessary requisites, and it could be such only in a God made man: a host worthy of God, a means understood by man. In addition, He was coming to bring the Law.

If His humanity had not existed, how could we—His poor brothers and sisters, who labor to have faith in Him, who lived for thirty-three years on the earth, a Man among men—have believed? And, how could He appear, already an adult, to hostile or ignorant peoples, making them convinced of His nature and His doctrine? He would then have appeared, in the eyes of the world, as a spirit Who had taken on a human likeness, but not as a man who was born and died, shedding real blood through the wounds of a real flesh—as proof of being a man—and rose again and ascended to Heaven with His glorified body—as proof of being God returning to His eternal dwelling.

Isn't it sweeter for us to think that He is really our brother, with the destiny of creatures who are born, live, suffer, and die, than to conceive of Him as a spirit superior to the exigencies of humanity?

It was necessary, then, for a woman to give birth to Him according to the flesh, after having conceived Him above the flesh, for from no marriage of creatures, no matter how holy they were, could the God-Man be conceived, but only from a wedding of Purity and Love, the Spirit and the Virgin, created without stain so as to be the matrix for the flesh of a God, the Virgin the thought of Whom was God's joy, since before time existed, the Virgin in Whom there is a compendium of the Fathers creative perfection, the joy of Heaven, the salvation of the Earth, the most beautiful flower of Creation of all the flowers of the Universe, a living star before whom all the suns created by the Father seem dull.

Blessed is the Pure One, destined for the Lord.
Blessed is the One Desired by the Trinity, which by desire anticipated the instant of fusing Itself with Her in an embrace of three-fold love.
Blessed is the Victorious Woman who crushes the Tempter under the witness of Her immaculate nature.
Blessed is the Virgin Who knows only the Lord's kiss.
Blessed is the Mother Who has become such out of holy obedience to the will of the Most High.
Blessed is the Martyr Who accepts martyrdom out of mercy on all of us.
Blessed is the Redemptrix of woman and of all the children of woman, Who cancels out Eve and is installed in her place to bear the fruit of life where the Enemy has set the seed of death.

Blessed, blessed, thrice blessed for your "yes," O Mother of Jesus, Who have allowed God to keep the promise made to Abraham, the patriarchs, and the prophets, Who have brought relief to Love, oppressed by having to be the punisher and not the savior, Who have released the Earth from the condemnation brought upon it by Eve.

Blessed, blessed, blessed for Your holy humility, for Your inflamed charity, for Your untouched virginity, for Your divine maternity, multiple, sempiternal, true, and spiritual, Mother Who with Your love and with Your pain give birth continuously to children for the Kingdom of Your Jesus.

Generatrix of grace and salvation, generatrix of divine Mercy, generatrix of the universal Church, may You be blessed eternally for what You have done, as You were eternally blessed for what You would do.

Holy, holy, holy Priestess, Who celebrated the first sacrifice and with part of Yourself prepared the Host to be immolated on the altar of the world.

Holy, holy, holy Mother of Jesus, Who did not cause Him to miss Heaven and the Father's breast, for in You He found another paradise not unlike the one in which the Triad performs Its divine works; Mary, Who are the glory of the Father and the Love of the Spirit."

Why did it have to be an innocent woman? Could not the Son of God inherit the weaknesses of mankind yet overcome all tendencies to evil through faith in His Father's power, just as we are to do through faith in Jesus's power?

 

[Brakelite]

Why did our Redeemer need to be both God and Man?

"Blessed are you among all women" (Lk. 1:42)

This blessing, which we say poorly or do not say at all, to Her Who with Her sacrifice began the Redemption, continually resounds in Heaven, pronounced with infinite love by the Trinity, with inflamed charity by those saved by their sacrifice, and by the angelic choirs. All paradise blesses Mary, the masterwork of universal Creation and Divine Mercy.

Even if all the Father's work to create the Earth from nothing had served only to receive Mary, the work of Creation would have had its reason for being, for the perfection of this Creature is such that it is testimony not only of the wisdom and power, but also of the love with which God created the world.

Since the earthly creation has instead yielded Adam and Adam's race, Mary witnesses to the merciful superlove of God towards man, for through Mary, Mother of the Redeemer, God has worked the salvation of the human race. Jesus is the Christ because Mary conceived Him and gave Him to the World.

Some will say that as God Jesus could have overcome the need to take flesh in a woman's womb. He could do all, it's true. But reflect on the law of order and goodness which lies in His annihilation in mortal clothing.

The sin committed by man had to be expiated by man and not by the non-incarnate divinity. How could the Divinity, incorporeal Spirit, redeem the sins of the flesh with the sacrifice of Itself? It was, then, necessary that God should pay for the sins of flesh and blood with the agony of an innocent Flesh and Blood, born of an innocent woman.

His mind, His feeling, and His Spirit would have suffered for our sins in mind, feeling, and spirit. But to be the Redemption of all forms of concupiscence inoculated into Adam and his descendants by the Tempter, the One Immolated for them all had to be endowed with a nature like ours, made worthy of being given as a ransom to God by the Divinity hidden in it, like a gem of infinite supernatural value hidden under common, natural clothing.

God is order, and God does not violate or do violence to order, except in very exceptional cases, judged useful by His intelligence. Such was not the case with His Redemption.

He had not only to cancel sin from the moment it occurred until the moment of the sacrifice and annul in those to come the effects of sin by having them be born unaware of evil. No. With a total sacrifice He had to make reparation for Sin and all the sins of all mankind, give the men already dead absolution of sin, and give those living at that time and in the future the means to be helped to resist evil and to be forgiven for the evil which their weakness would lead them to do.

His sacrifice thus had to be such as to present all the necessary requisites, and it could be such only in a God made man: a host worthy of God, a means understood by man. In addition, He was coming to bring the Law.

If His humanity had not existed, how could we—His poor brothers and sisters, who labor to have faith in Him, who lived for thirty-three years on the earth, a Man among men—have believed? And, how could He appear, already an adult, to hostile or ignorant peoples, making them convinced of His nature and His doctrine? He would then have appeared, in the eyes of the world, as a spirit Who had taken on a human likeness, but not as a man who was born and died, shedding real blood through the wounds of a real flesh—as proof of being a man—and rose again and ascended to Heaven with His glorified body—as proof of being God returning to His eternal dwelling.

Isn't it sweeter for us to think that He is really our brother, with the destiny of creatures who are born, live, suffer, and die, than to conceive of Him as a spirit superior to the exigencies of humanity?

It was necessary, then, for a woman to give birth to Him according to the flesh, after having conceived Him above the flesh, for from no marriage of creatures, no matter how holy they were, could the God-Man be conceived, but only from a wedding of Purity and Love, the Spirit and the Virgin, created without stain so as to be the matrix for the flesh of a God, the Virgin the thought of Whom was God's joy, since before time existed, the Virgin in Whom there is a compendium of the Fathers creative perfection, the joy of Heaven, the salvation of the Earth, the most beautiful flower of Creation of all the flowers of the Universe, a living star before whom all the suns created by the Father seem dull.

Blessed is the Pure One, destined for the Lord.
Blessed is the One Desired by the Trinity, which by desire anticipated the instant of fusing Itself with Her in an embrace of three-fold love.
Blessed is the Victorious Woman who crushes the Tempter under the witness of Her immaculate nature.
Blessed is the Virgin Who knows only the Lord's kiss.
Blessed is the Mother Who has become such out of holy obedience to the will of the Most High.
Blessed is the Martyr Who accepts martyrdom out of mercy on all of us.
Blessed is the Redemptrix of woman and of all the children of woman, Who cancels out Eve and is installed in her place to bear the fruit of life where the Enemy has set the seed of death.

Blessed, blessed, thrice blessed for your "yes," O Mother of Jesus, Who have allowed God to keep the promise made to Abraham, the patriarchs, and the prophets, Who have brought relief to Love, oppressed by having to be the punisher and not the savior, Who have released the Earth from the condemnation brought upon it by Eve.

Blessed, blessed, blessed for Your holy humility, for Your inflamed charity, for Your untouched virginity, for Your divine maternity, multiple, sempiternal, true, and spiritual, Mother Who with Your love and with Your pain give birth continuously to children for the Kingdom of Your Jesus.

Generatrix of grace and salvation, generatrix of divine Mercy, generatrix of the universal Church, may You be blessed eternally for what You have done, as You were eternally blessed for what You would do.

Holy, holy, holy Priestess, Who celebrated the first sacrifice and with part of Yourself prepared the Host to be immolated on the altar of the world.

Holy, holy, holy Mother of Jesus, Who did not cause Him to miss Heaven and the Father's breast, for in You He found another paradise not unlike the one in which the Triad performs Its divine works; Mary, Who are the glory of the Father and the Love of the Spirit."

“Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved. ”
Acts 4:12 KJV

Unfeigned Bible

Unfeigned Bible

www.unfeignedbible.app

“Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole. ”
Acts 4:10 KJV

Unfeigned Bible

Unfeigned Bible

www.unfeignedbible.app

“5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time. ”
1 Timothy 2:5-6 KJV

Unfeigned Bible

Unfeigned Bible

www.unfeignedbible.app

 

[Taken]

Why did our Redeemer need to be both God and Man?

Because…
* Only an Israelite (man of the lineage of the House of David) can Lawfully SIT on King David’s everlasting Throne God established FOR the King of the Promised Land.
* Only God is the Supreme Power Governing Authority Over His “Throne” (which IS Heaven).

WHEN…the Lord Jesus / Son of Man…(with power…ie Christ) SITS as King over His Kingdom on Earth…
He (as a man) sits on King David’s everlasting Throne (IN Jerusalem) (OVER His Kingdom (Promised Land), FOR 1,000 years.

WHEN…the 1,000 years are finished…Satan again has authority / power / cunning influence he shall use TO, trick, deceive, the Mortal People at large (in their Nations) to WAR Against the Lord Jesus’ Kingdom.
* the Lords TWO-Edged sword….shall defeat the mortals….ENDING the age of Mortal mans existence.

* THEN SHALL…the BARRIER (firmament) between Heaven and Earth Become MADE OPENED…and AS it IS IN HEAVEN…so also SHALL it BE ON EARTH…
(No mortals, No demonic angel beings…
Transformed body’s of men from dead, to risen glorified body’s, restored (saved) souls returned to their body’s, born again spirits of Gods truth returned to their body’s….
* THEY the eternal habitats of Earth made in the Likeness of Heaven…

* the Father and Son…WHO ARE…

John 10:
[30] I and my father ARE ONE.

Shall be King of the Entire Universe.
The Lord God Almighty of ALL the Universe …He shall be THEIR God and THEY shall be His People.

WHY?
Gods Design and Fulfillment of His Word.

God bless you.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Here's the beauty you're not allowing yourself to see: we don't have to wait until we're in Heaven to know truths.

Nah, I'll wait ... it's only a few more years. I am looking forward to the wonderful reality in Heaven, don't want to spoil it!

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Part II

[Sigh]

You need to thoroughly research Maria Valtorta and the history of her writings.



A lot has happened since then, which you need to read: Is the Poem of the Man-God by Maria Valtorta approved?



You're referring to The Decree of Condemnation published in L'Osservatore Romano on January 6, 1960, accompanied by a front-page, anonymously written article under the heading "A Badly Fictionalized Life of Jesus". However, since then, the writings have been approved to be published and so on.

See below though the English translations of the Decree of Condemnation and the anonymous explanatory letter (the gray text), as well as the responses to them (the blue text).

Was The Poem of the Man-God Condemned by the Catholic Church?

Was Maria Valtorta's Poem condemned by the Church? Did the Holy Office, under Cardinal Ottaviani, contradict past popes? A traditional perspective and analysis of the alleged apparitions.

www.maria-valtorta.net

"Juridic Import of Subsequent Letters from Prelates
In the decades following the Index’s abrogation Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger and Bishop Dionigi Tettamanzi wrote letters recalling that Valtorta’s work had been placed on the Index and reiterating the Index’s enduring moral value. Other prelates wrote letters in support of the work. We will now briefly examine the juridic import of these documents."

"The Index no longer has the force of ecclesiastical law; therefore when one chooses to read, publish, or promote the Poem there is no violation of ecclesiastical law. The various letters issued by prelates in the decades following the abrogation of the Index on the subject of the Poem are not (with the exception of the imprimatur granted by Bishop Pakiam), juridically binding. Hence a Catholic is permitted to think and act in ways different from the opinions expressed therein. For example, a Catholic who believes the Poem to be of supernatural origin or promotes it as such is not being disobedient to Bishop Tettamanzi’s letter, for the letter has no juridic weight."

Source: https://www.valtorta.org.au/JCL-Thesis-on-the-Index-and-Valtorta.pdf



Remember John's words: "But there are also many other things which Jesus did; which, if they were written every one, the world itself, I think, would not be able to contain the books that should be written." (Jn. 21:25)

• Proofs of the supernatural origin of Maria Valtorta’s visions described in her Work (pg. 188)

• Proof by astronomy (such as detailed astronomical observations over the course of hundreds of pages in her 1940's visions that a Purdue University professor of Theoretical Physics testified are remarkably consistent with her dating system and that she couldn't have predicted or verified without a computer) (pg. 191)

• Proof by geography, topography, and archaeology (including her describing Palestine and over 350 geographical locations in the Holy Land with a level of precision in multiple fields that she couldn't possibly have known without modern electronic scholastic resources or access to an extensive collection of books/atlases in the 1940's that eyewitnesses and common sense confirm she didn't–nor could've had–access to and which itself arguably would've been insufficient to complete her Work) (pg. 220)

• Proof of The Poem of the Man-God's knowledge, depth, and eminence in the theological, exegetical, mystical, and mariological fields (which many world-renowned trustworthy theologians say exceed anything they've ever read) (pg. 251)

• Proof by Maria Valtorta's detailed, exact, and often unparalleled knowledge of the political, religious, economic, social, and familial situation–as well as the dress–of the ancient Jewish, Samaritan, and Roman peoples that astound even world-renowned biblical scholars (pg. 257)

• Proof of The Poem of the Man-God's unquestionable expertise, deep knowledge, and exhaustive information on such a wide variety of theological and scientific subjects, and the fact that almost 15,000 handwritten pages of such were written in only 3½ years amidst her unusually severe physical condition and illnesses and even though she lacked the learning, resources, and books required to write a Work a tenth as profound as this (pg. 260)

• Proof of the extraordinary, unprecedented way in which The Poem of the Man-God was written, compiled, and put together (such as the fact that 166 out of the 647 chapters were written out of order, and she has Jesus ministering in over 350 named locations and traveling over 4,000 miles in six different cycles across Palestine, and yet Jesus and all the other 500+ characters are never in a place inconsistent with either the story line or the timing and distance necessities required for traveling, and there's not one person, place, or thing out of place) (pg. 297)

• Proof of The Poem of the Man-God's extraordinary purity, holiness, loftiness, and eminence among the writings that exist in the world (pg. 309)

• Proof (or a substantiating factor) by research that shows that The Poem of the Man-God isn't based on (or a mere expansion of) any known Gospel manuscript standard, version, or school of critical thought, something expected if a work of this magnitude, detail, and accuracy had been a mere human effort (pg. 312)

• Proof (or a substantiating factor) in how The Poem of the Man-God resolves many problems in the Gospel accounts which scholars have struggled with for years (including apparent contradictions between the different Gospel accounts and apparent errors or inconsistencies within the same Gospel account), and how it furthermore corrects certain misunderstandings and translation errors that have been perpetuated throughout the centuries (pg. 318)

• Proof (or a substantiating factor) of the fact that Maria Valtorta’s visions of Christ’s passion perfectly match detailed findings on the miraculous Shroud of Turin that recent modern scientific tests have revealed decades after her writings were published, and the fact that her writings foretold something amazing about the Veil of Veronica which has been scientifically proven for the first time decades after her death (pg. 343)

• Proof (or a substantiating factor) by its perfect correspondence to the ancient liturgical and patristic tradition of the ancient Catholic Byzantine Rite of the Church (pg. 364)

• Proof by the testimony of countless trustworthy clerics, authorities, experts, scientists, and pious lay faithful and the tremendously good fruits produced in individuals and in the Church as a whole (pg. 367)

Here's the beauty you're not allowing yourself to see: we don't have to wait until we're in Heaven to know truths. You can't comprehend the wealth of knowledge that Jesus has continued to give us over the centuries to the present day, and will continue to.

The work is riddled with anti-Simitism. That would be a major flaw; since God loves them and has not forsaken the Jews. Especially in the end times, a Jewish remnant (1/3) will be saved ( see Romans 11). And the arrogance that this "Poem of the Man-God" compensates for the inadequacies of the Bible is blasphemous.
Automatic writing is done also by demonic possessed individuals, whom also seem to be aware of knowledge not learned or experienced _ outside themselves, lives of foreigners, different languages, etc. Demons have this knowledge because they have been around for thousands of years. Joseph Smith also claimed to have received extra Biblical knowledge of Christ's visit to the America's after His resurrection in the Book of Mormon. Mormons believe these stories too. Joseph Smith crystal gazed, went into a trance and supposedly received information in the book from an angel, Moroni.
Well, again, I'll pass on Prophetess Maria Valvorta's (The Bible part 2) thank you very much.

 

[LuxMundy]

The work is riddled with anti-Simitism. That would be a major flaw; since God loves them and has not forsaken the Jews.

I know that you haven't read The Poem of the Man-God: Vols. I-V, but I have read it multiple times, and it's not anti-simetic. So, wherever you read that it is, clearly the person who said it hasn't read it either. What's with your poor researching? Do you just not care about accuracy?

Automatic writing is done also by demonic possessed individuals, whom also seem to be aware of knowledge not learned or experienced _ outside themselves, lives of foreigners, different languages, etc. Demons have this knowledge because they have been around for thousands of years. Joseph Smith also claimed to have received extra Biblical knowledge of Christ's visit to the America's after His resurrection in the Book of Mormon. Mormons believe these stories too. Joseph Smith crystal gazed, went into a trance and supposedly received information in the book from an angel, Moroni. Well, again, I'll pass on Prophetess Maria Valvorta's (The Bible part 2) thank you very much.

Maria Valtorta didn't do automatic writing, which, again, you'd know if you thoroughly researched her. So, do you just not care if you speak about her falsely? And, if you thoroughly researched Maria Valtorta, you'd also know she was nothing like Joseph Smith lol.

And the arrogance that this "Poem of the Man-God" compensates for the inadequacies of the Bible is blasphemous.

As Jesus said through Maria Valtorta regarding The Poem of the Man-God: Vols. I-V, in it the gaps in The Bible, brought about by natural causes and supernatural will, were filled in.

On September 23, 1944, Jesus said to Maria Valtorta, "The order of the Gospels is good, but not perfect as a chronological order. A diligent observer notices that. He who could have given the exact order of events, having been with Me from the beginning of the Evangelization to My Ascension, did not do so, because John, a true son of the Light, devoted himself to and worried about making the Light shine brightly through its appearance of a Body in the eyes of the heretics, who contested the truth of the Divinity enclosed in a human body. John's sublime Gospel achieved its supernatural purpose, but the chronology of My public life has not been improved by it. The other three evangelists show resemblances to one another with regard to events, but they alter their order with regard to time, because only one of the three was present at almost all My public life: Matthew, and he wrote it only fifteen years later, whilst the others wrote theirs even later, after hearing the story from My Mother, from Peter, from other apostles and disciples. I want to give you a guide to collect together the events of the three years, year by year." (excerpt from The Poem of the Man-God: Vol. IV)

On October 17, 1944, in response to someone calling Maria Valtorta's The Gospel As It Was Revealed To Me, or The Poem of the Man-God the "5th Gospel," Jesus said, "Now we come to the so-called 5th gospel. There are four Gospels. Now I am explaining them in order to bring to light others which are lost or downplayed. But I am not creating another Gospel. There are four, four there will remain. Understood in detail or left in their broad outlines, four and no more." (excerpt from The Little Notebooks)

April 8, 1948, “The gaps in the four Gospels, those too strictly literal versions which have allowed the establishment of fertile ground for the plants of deceit, schisms, heresies, separations and denials; in twenty centuries you have not been able to fill those gaps in a way acceptable to minds that are ever more open to and more tempted by Satan who hates me. Those erroneous words, “Joseph did not know her until she gave birth,” and further on, “Mary’s firstborn; Jesus’s brothers; Mary’s sisters” which create confusion among the good and denial in the evil. Gaps and erroneous words that in twenty centuries you haven’t shown how to fill or substitute boldly but in a holy way, in order to save the faith and stop schisms and heresies. So after twenty centuries, and at the eve of the time of the spirit, the great battle between darkness and the Light, I have come to fill these gaps, to substitute them with true, acceptable words. I have come in defense of the Truth, of the life of the Church and the Way of God, which too many have lost.

And you block it! Just like those of old who always opposed Me and blocked My Work in their hearts; you look at the splinters and leave the beams. The weak in faith trip over the beams, and use them to make battering rams to attack the faith and you.

When was I ever loved in spirit and truth?

When did pride of life, a characteristic of ninety percent of the great ones in the Temple, accept My Word as unique and true? [...]” (excerpt from The Little Notebooks)

On May 8, 1948 Jesus said to Maria Valtorta, "The canonical Gospel is essential for believing and for saving oneself; but it is not a complete knowledge of Me." (excerpt from The Little Notebooks)

On February 22, 1949, Jesus said to Maria Valtorta, "I was already sufficiently described in the Gospels, the minimum necessary for the salvation of hearts. Mary was little known. Just an incomplete outline which left too much of Her in shadow. So now, I have revealed Her to you. I have given you this perfect story of my Mother." (excerpt from The Little Notebooks)

As the apostle John of Zebedee said, "But there are also many other things which Jesus did; which, if they were written every one, the world itself, I think, would not be able to contain the books that should be written." (Jn. 21:25)

It's foreign to me seeing you and other Christians go through life limiting our unlimited God to one book, despite His own apostle acknowledging it would take more than one book to know things about Him. Jesus Himself even talked about there going to be true and false spokespersons in the future. That's why He instructed us on how to discern between the true and false ones. Don't fear, accept that our living God isn't mute, and have more faith in Him that He'll always protect His true spokesmen, and make it known who they are.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

On September 23, 1944, Jesus said to Maria Valtorta, "The order of the Gospels is good, but not perfect as a chronological order. A diligent observer notices that.

God's word is inerrant. Man did not mess it up, since the Holy Spirit inspired men to write exactly what was written. It wasn't contrived by man. God sovereignly gave us exactly and sufficiently His message.

He who could have given the exact order of events, having been with Me from the beginning of the Evangelization to My Ascension, did not do so

I don't believe Jesus said that! He is the Author of the Bible, therefore in complete control of what was written; but Maria is claiming it's not in order, there are gaps, and that Mary wasn 't presented fully enough ... and so now Jesus will fill in the blanks 1900 years later ... lol
Okay, now I have read some of this garbage.
Contrived fiction to elevate Mary. Sorry this is obviously fiction as wise men have purported. Women are always deceived though ... like Eve.

Jesus said, “The gaps in the four Gospels, those too strictly literal versions which have allowed the establishment of fertile ground for the plants of deceit, schisms, heresies, separations and denials; in twenty centuries you have not been able to fill those gaps in a way acceptable to minds that are ever more open to and more tempted by Satan who hates me."

This is really blasphemous, inciting errors in God's Word. Shame on her.

"I was already sufficiently described in the Gospels, the minimum necessary for the salvation of hearts. Mary was little known. Just an incomplete outline which left too much of Her in shadow. So now, I have revealed Her to you. I have given you this perfect story of my Mother."

Mary served her purpose, to bare a child, nourish and nuture him as he grew up to be a man. Yet I think by the age of twelve, it was very apparent, Jesus did not need his parents direction any longer. "Did you not know that I was about my Father's business?" No, Mary did not ... I guess she was so enamored with her special blessing that she lost track of her child's whereabouts _ for _ three _ days! Parent's today doing something like that would be considered boneheads, negligent and the child likely taken away. Ah, no worries, the boy Jesus was safe, knew what he was doing, already giving a lessen to and spinning the Rabbi's heads around.
She did a good job and that was it, a role of a physical mother, nothing more. Her relationship to the world was not be an issue - because it wasn't and it was not written or implied. On the cross, Jesus , since he was dying said to John, "This is your mother". He was essentially entrusting his mother Mary to John's care, telling him he is now responsible for her well being - that's nice and appropriate for a friend/brother to do.
I'll certainly request her company when I get up there ... she's my spiritual sister. We'll have a nice long chat. I'm sure she got a, " Well done good and faithful servant" when she arrived - from Jesus.

 

[LuxMundy]

[...] but Maria is claiming it's not in order, there are gaps, and that Mary wasn't presented fully enough ...

In regards to the four Gospels, Jesus, not Maria Valtorta, mentioned an imperfect chronological order of events, gaps, and an incomplete knowledge of Him and His Mother in it, and He would know better than anyone about His Own Word, and He said the following:

• "The order of the Gospels is good, but not perfect as a chronological order." Jesus also said that "he who could've given the exact order of events, having been with Me from the beginning of the Evangelization to My Ascension, did not do so, "because John, a true son of the Light, devoted himself to and worried about making the Light shine brightly through its appearance of a Body in the eyes of the heretics, who contested the truth of the Divinity enclosed in a human body. John's sublime Gospel achieved its supernatural purpose, but the chronology of My public life has not been improved by it. The other three evangelists show resemblances to one another with regard to events, but they alter their order with regard to time, because only one of the three was present at almost all My public life: Matthew, and he wrote it only fifteen years later, whilst the others wrote theirs even later, after hearing the story from My Mother, from Peter, from other apostles and disciples" (excerpt from The Poem of the Man-God: Vol. IV). That's one of the reasons why Jesus gave us what is now known as The Poem of the Man-God: Vols. I-V. He said: "There are four Gospels. Now I am explaining them in order to bring to light others which are lost or downplayed. But I am not creating another Gospel. There are four, four there will remain. Understood in detail or left in their broad outlines, four and no more." (excerpt from The Little Notebooks, September 24th, 1944)

• Regarding the gaps in the four Gospels, Jesus was referring to the gaps in those "too strictly literal versions" when He said that they "have allowed the establishment of fertile ground for the plants of deceit, schisms, heresies, separations and denials; in twenty centuries you have not been able to fill those gaps in a way acceptable to minds that are ever more open to and more tempted by Satan who hates me. Those erroneous words, “Joseph did not know her until she gave birth,” and further on, “Mary’s firstborn; Jesus’s brothers; Mary’s sisters” which create confusion among the good and denial in the evil. Gaps and erroneous words that in twenty centuries you haven’t shown how to fill or substitute boldly but in a holy way, in order to save the faith and stop schisms and heresies. So after twenty centuries, and at the eve of the time of the spirit, the great battle between darkness and the Light, I have come to fill these gaps, to substitute them with true, acceptable words. I have come in defense of the Truth, of the life of the Church and the Way of God, which too many have lost. And you block it! Just like those of old who always opposed Me and blocked My Work in their hearts; you look at the splinters and leave the beams. The weak in faith trip over the beams, and use them to make battering rams to attack the faith and you. When was I ever loved in spirit and truth? When did pride of life, a characteristic of ninety percent of the great ones in the Temple, accept My Word as unique and true? [...]” (excerpt from The Little Notebooks, April 8th, 1946)

• "The canonical Gospel is essential for believing and for saving oneself; but it is not a complete knowledge of Me" (excerpt from The Little Notebooks, May 8, 1948) and "I was already sufficiently described in the Gospels, the minimum necessary for the salvation of hearts. Mary was little known. Just an incomplete outline which left too much of Her in shadow. So now, I have revealed Her to you. I have given you this perfect story of my Mother" (excerpt from The Little Notebooks, February 22, 1949). It's an indisputable fact that we have an incomplete knowledge of Mary and Jesus in Scripture.

Okay, now I have read some of this garbage. Contrived fiction to elevate Mary. Sorry this is obviously fiction [...]

Mary served her purpose [...] a role of a physical mother, nothing more.

You say that The Poem of the Man-God is "obviously fiction" because Mary isn't depicted in it in the way that you depict Her. Therefore, your opinion on the Work is based on a bias, not because of any thorough examination you've done on Maria Valtorta and The Poem of the Man-God from objectiveness and with an open mind. Additionally, experts in various fields who have thoroughly examined Maria Valtorta and The Poem of the Man-God didn't even reach the conclusion you have. Below are just a few of those studies:

(I) The results from the mathematical analysis of Maria Valtorta's Work by Professor Emilio Matricciani and Dr. Liberato De Caro, where they concluded:

In conclusion, what do these findings mean? That Maria Valtorta is such a good writer to be able to modulate the linguistic parameters in so many different ways and as a function of character of the plot and type of literary text, so as to cover almost the entire range of the Italian literature? Or that visions and dictations really occurred and she was only a mystical, very intelligent and talented “writing tool”? Of course, no answer grounded in science can be given to the latter question.

(II) The results from the astronomical and meteorological analysis of Maria Valtorta's Work by Professor Emilio Matricciani and Dr. Liberato De Caro, where they concluded:

It seems that she has written down observations and facts that really happened at the time of Jesus’ life, as a real witness of them would have done. The question arises, unsolved from a point of view exclusively rational, how all this is possible because what Maria Valtorta writes down cannot, in any way, be traced back to her fantasy or to her astronomical and meteorological knowledge. In conclusion, if from one hand the scientific inquire has evidenced all the surprising and unexpected results reported and discussed in this paper, on the other hand our actual scientific knowledge cannot readily explain how these results are possible.

(III) In David Webster, M.Div.'s chapter "Proof by Geography and Topography and Archaeology" of A Summa and Encyclopedia to Maria Valtorta’s Extraordinary Work, he relates:

An additional line of incontrovertible evidence (which Valtorta was encouraged by Jesus to include for the benefit of “the difficult doctors” of the Church) deals with the vast amount of geographical, climatic, agricultural, historical, astronomical, and cartographical information given in her work. Authorities in these fields have verified the accuracy of what she has reported with appropriate astonishment. Valtorta accurately identifies this agricultural and climatic information that is often unique to Palestine with the appropriate calendar period which she often specifically identifies. Without any evidence of planning and with hardly any corrections, Valtorta ends up with a perfectly flowing 3½ year story line with Jesus appropriately in Jerusalem and Judea for Passover and Pentecost in all four spring seasons, and at the Tabernacles in all three fall seasons of His ministry. Valtorta shows Jesus to have traversed the land of Palestine from one end to another in at least six cycles (some 4,000 miles), ministering in some 350 named locations, including places in Palestine known only to specialized archaeologists. Not once, however, does she have Jesus (or any one of the other 500 characters) in a place inconsistent with either the story line or distance or timing necessities

(IV) In professional engineer Jean-François Lavère's The Valtorta Enigma, he writes:

The work [The Poem of the Man-God] overflows with exact data from the viewpoint of history, topography, architecture, geography, ethnology, chronology, etc. Furthermore, Maria Valtorta often provides precise details known only by some scholars, and in certain cases, she even records details totally unknown at the time she recorded them, and which archeology, history, or science have later confirmed.

In addition to these studies, there's the list of proofs that her writings are of supernatural origin, which can all be read here. There's plenty of evidence that validates that Maria Valtorta was Jesus's spokesperson. Even you testified to this with your high praise of some words I said that you didn't know at the time was an excerpt from one of Maria Valtorta's books that was a dictation by the Holy Spirit. You said, "Is that your writing???? Whether your views are right or wrong; and if those are your words, you are a talented writer. If so, you are wasting your talents on this board, you should be writing books, teaching, preaching." The reason you reacted that way to the words you read is because they are in fact the Holy Spirit's Words, even if you try to rationalize that it's not.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

The reason you reacted that way to the words you read is because they are in fact the Holy Spirit's Words, even if you try to rationalize that it's not.

No, talented writing I said, NOT SCRIPTURE! Writing as in commentary concerning only the Part 3 section that I pointed out. When you started quoting Maria's "Jesus said this and Jesus said that", I wasn't impressed, it presented contradictions to God's word. So the totality of what you presented so far is unbelievable.
Stephen King is a talented fiction writer too, but he could never fool me with apocryphal stories about Jesus. I don't accept the Apocryphal books either as authentically God's word. I only accept the Bible as God's word.
You said yourself that your effirts ofbsharing Maria's Poem resulted in a 0.01% interest. The gate is narrow, but not that narrow. The Holy Spirit seems to average around 1/3 of recipients to date with the Bible. And this is my final say on the matter. Goodbye.

 

[face2face]

Quote which part(s) of the following you believe is false:

"The Koine Greek word for "flesh" is "σάρξ" (sarx), and one of its definitions is "flesh, body, the soft tissue of a creature, often in contrast to bone, ligament, or sinew," such as that of a human. In Jn. 1:1;14, we read, "The Word was God," and "the Word was made flesh (human, or man), and lived among us." You even acknowledged that Jesus is human, a man, back in post #18. The very act of something fleshless becoming flesh, e.g., human, or man, is an incarnation."



Part of human nature is committing sins, but, for example, Jesus was a human Who didn't commit sins (1 Jn. 3:5), and thus He's not like us in every respect.



If you read all three parts, then explain what it's about, if you want to substantiate your assertion that it doesn't have to do with Rom. 8:1-4.

Asoul, you keep pointing me to #79 which holds nothing at all about what the law could not do but what God did raising up a son in sins flesh condemned sin in the flesh.

Speak to this truth and then deal with all the other verses which teach the same

F2F