Why did our Redeemer need to be both God and Man?

[LuxMundy]

"Blessed" is really translated, happy.

It isn't true that the Koine Greek word "Εὐλογημένη" (eulogeō) in Lk. 1:42 means "happy". See below.

Forms of the Word
Dictionary: εὐλογέω
Greek transliteration: eulogeō
Simplified transliteration: eulogeo
Principal Parts: (εὐλόγουν ανδ ηὐλόγουν), εὐλογήσω, εὐλόγησα, εὐλόγηκα, εὐλόγημαι, εὐλογήθην

Numbers
Strong's number: 2127
GK Number: 2328

Statistics
Frequency in New Testament: 41
Morphology of Biblical Greek Tag: v-1d(2a)

Gloss: to praise, give thanks to, speak well of, extol; (pass.) to be blessed, receive blessing; in some contexts, to give a blessing is to act kindly and impart benefits to the one being blessed

Definition: pr. to speak well of, in NT to bless, ascribe praise and glorification, Lk. 1:64; to bless, invoke a blessing upon, Mt. 5:44; to bless, confer a favor or blessing upon, Eph. 1:3; Heb. 6:14; pass. to be blessed, to be an object of favor or blessing, Lk. 1:28

Do you get that ... the Son of God (that is not Mary, that is the Father God). Now Jesus is also referred to as the Son of Man and it is in this form Mary was His mother.

I have said that Jesus is called the "Son of God", as well as the "Son of Mary" in Mk. 6:3, the "Son of Man" and the "Firstborn".

Jesus, born of a woman Who was the daughter of Adam, but without the original stain— that is, as all the children of Adam should've been—is thus the Firstborn, in the natural order, Adam, born alive in the midst of those begotten dead Adam.

Jesus is the Firstborn in the divine order because He is the Son of the Father, the Begotten One, not created by Him.

To beget means to produce a life. To create means to form. God can create a new flower. The artist can create a new work. But only a father and a mother can generate a life.

Jesus is, then, the "Firstborn" because, born of God, He is at the head of all those born (according to the grace) of God.

In the thrice powerful and holy name of Jesus is the splendor and glory of the Triune God, for He is the Holy of Holies, in Whom there is found, as in the Temple of God, the living, true, and perfect God as He is in Heaven, eternal and active, like a wheel which undergoes no welding and does not cease its movement in the ages and ages preceding man and the ages and ages following man. Hence the Book rightly states, "You, man, will not build the house for my Name, but your son, who will emerge from your entrails, will be the one who will build a house for my Name." (2. Sam. 7:13)

The Son of Man, by His human lineage He is the (Firstborn) Son of Adam, born of a woman of a holy lineage (of David), consecrated to the Father, by the will of the Holy Spirit conceived without the weight of carnality, but by an infusion of love alone, the One Born of Mary, Who did not open the virginal womb at birth, as at His conception no one violated that womb consecrated to the Father—our son through the Mother, we humanity, and the Father's Son by His divine origin, shall be the One who shall make Himself the House upon upon which the glory of the Father's name is engraved.

For They are inseparable in Their Trinity, and in Christ there are the Father, and the Son, and the Divine Spirit. The Son is nothing but the Word of the Father, Who has taken on a form to be redemption for us. But His annihilation does not break the union of the Three Persons, for the Perfection of God knows no limitation or separation.

Jesus, while in his physical human form, had a biological mother. But His spirit has no mother; since Jesus is God, he always existed. There is no mother of God, that would imply that the sexual union between a man and a woman was involved. Mary did not give birth to God, she gave birth to a human baby (whom God's spirit occupied. God emptied Himself into a human vessel). Mary had nothing to do with this spiritual conception, her womb contained the physical person. Therefore the "Mother of God" is a misnomer.

God is eternal, and Jesus (the Word) is God, but Jesus as the Word didn't always exist as flesh. The Koine Greek word for "flesh" is "σάρξ" (sarx), and one of its definitions is "flesh, body, the soft tissue of a creature, often in contrast to bone, ligament, or sinew", such as that of a human. In Jn. 1:1;14, we read, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God", and "the Word was made flesh (human, or man), and lived among us [...]." The very act of something fleshless becoming flesh, e.g., human, or man, is an incarnation.

Jesus's divine nature is not separate from His human nature, nor does His human nature absorb His divine one; they both exist in His unique person. It is not because the Spirit of God was infused into His human body, born from a human marriage; a temporary, mortal union. It was the Word taking flesh in Mary's womb, "descended" as in "ascended," true God in true flesh. The Word took flesh in Mary's womb through divine conception and, before there was any flesh to clothe the immaculate soul of Jesus, the Word was already in its tabernacle of Grace; Mary's womb. For this reason, it is the truth, and just, to call and believe in Jesus the Man-God, Emmanuel; God with us. (Is. 7:14, Matt. 1:22-23)

As prophesied by Isaiah, the Virgin, Mary, conceived by the Holy Spirit (God), and gave birth to and became the Mother of the Messiah, the Word (God) Incarnate: Jesus (Is. 7:14;9:6, Matt. 1:23;25, Lk. 1:31;35;2:7, Gal. 4:4), and She was called His Mother (Matt. 1:18;2:11, Lk. 1:43, Jn. 19:25-26, Acts 1:14).

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

It isn't true that the Koine Greek word "Εὐλογημένη" (eulogeō) in Lk. 1:42 means "happy." See below

Makarios means happy

Strong's Greek: 3107. μακάριος (makarios) -- Blessed, happy, fortunate

biblehub.com

Eulogemene
The Greek word eulogemene (εὐλογέω) means to praise, give thanks, speak well of, or extol. It can also mean to be blessed or receive a blessing. In some contexts, giving a blessing can also mean to act kindly or provide benefits to the person being blessed.

Here are some examples of eulogemene in the Bible:

• Luke 1:64: To bless, ascribe praise and glorification
• Matthew 5:44: To bless, invoke a blessing upon
• Ephesians 1:3: To bless, confer a favor or blessing upon
• Luke 1:28: To be blessed, to be an object of favor or blessing
  

 

[LuxMundy]

Makarios means happy

Strong's Greek: 3107. μακάριος (makarios) -- Blessed, happy, fortunate

biblehub.com

I didn't say that there's no Koine Greek word at all for "blessed" that means "happy". You were addressing the word "blessed" in Lk. 1:42 when you said, "'Blessed'" is really translated, happy", but again, the Koine Greek word used for "blessed" in that verse is "Εὐλογημένη" (eulogeō), and "happy" isn't one of its definitions. See below.

Forms of the Word
Dictionary: εὐλογέω
Greek transliteration: eulogeō
Simplified transliteration: eulogeo
Principal Parts: (εὐλόγουν ανδ ηὐλόγουν), εὐλογήσω, εὐλόγησα, εὐλόγηκα, εὐλόγημαι, εὐλογήθην

Numbers
Strong's number: 2127
GK Number: 2328

Statistics
Frequency in New Testament: 41
Morphology of Biblical Greek Tag: v-1d(2a)

Gloss: to praise, give thanks to, speak well of, extol; (pass.) to be blessed, receive blessing; in some contexts, to give a blessing is to act kindly and impart benefits to the one being blessed

Definition: pr. to speak well of, in NT to bless, ascribe praise and glorification, Lk. 1:64; to bless, invoke a blessing upon, Mt. 5:44; to bless, confer a favor or blessing upon, Eph. 1:3; Heb. 6:14; pass. to be blessed, to be an object of favor or blessing, Lk. 1:28

 

[quietthinker]

Why did our Redeemer need to be both God and Man?

"Blessed are you among all women" (Lk. 1:42)

This blessing, which we say poorly or do not say at all, to Her Who with Her sacrifice began the Redemption, continually resounds in Heaven, pronounced with infinite love by the Trinity, with inflamed charity by those saved by their sacrifice, and by the angelic choirs. All paradise blesses Mary, the masterwork of universal Creation and Divine Mercy.

Even if all the Father's work to create the Earth from nothing had served only to receive Mary, the work of Creation would have had its reason for being, for the perfection of this Creature is such that it is testimony not only of the wisdom and power, but also of the love with which God created the world.

Since the earthly creation has instead yielded Adam and Adam's race, Mary witnesses to the merciful superlove of God towards man, for through Mary, Mother of the Redeemer, God has worked the salvation of the human race. Jesus is the Christ because Mary conceived Him and gave Him to the World.

Some will say that as God Jesus could have overcome the need to take flesh in a woman's womb. He could do all, it's true. But reflect on the law of order and goodness which lies in His annihilation in mortal clothing.

The sin committed by man had to be expiated by man and not by the non-incarnate divinity. How could the Divinity, incorporeal Spirit, redeem the sins of the flesh with the sacrifice of Itself? It was, then, necessary that God should pay for the sins of flesh and blood with the agony of an innocent Flesh and Blood, born of an innocent woman.

His mind, His feeling, and His Spirit would have suffered for our sins in mind, feeling, and spirit. But to be the Redemption of all forms of concupiscence inoculated into Adam and his descendants by the Tempter, the One Immolated for them all had to be endowed with a nature like ours, made worthy of being given as a ransom to God by the Divinity hidden in it, like a gem of infinite supernatural value hidden under common, natural clothing.

God is order, and God does not violate or do violence to order, except in very exceptional cases, judged useful by His intelligence. Such was not the case with His Redemption.

He had not only to cancel sin from the moment it occurred until the moment of the sacrifice and annul in those to come the effects of sin by having them be born unaware of evil. No. With a total sacrifice He had to make reparation for Sin and all the sins of all mankind, give the men already dead absolution of sin, and give those living at that time and in the future the means to be helped to resist evil and to be forgiven for the evil which their weakness would lead them to do.

His sacrifice thus had to be such as to present all the necessary requisites, and it could be such only in a God made man: a host worthy of God, a means understood by man. In addition, He was coming to bring the Law.

If His humanity had not existed, how could we—His poor brothers and sisters, who labor to have faith in Him, who lived for thirty-three years on the earth, a Man among men—have believed? And, how could He appear, already an adult, to hostile or ignorant peoples, making them convinced of His nature and His doctrine? He would then have appeared, in the eyes of the world, as a spirit Who had taken on a human likeness, but not as a man who was born and died, shedding real blood through the wounds of a real flesh—as proof of being a man—and rose again and ascended to Heaven with His glorified body—as proof of being God returning to His eternal dwelling.

Isn't it sweeter for us to think that He is really our brother, with the destiny of creatures who are born, live, suffer, and die, than to conceive of Him as a spirit superior to the exigencies of humanity?

It was necessary, then, for a woman to give birth to Him according to the flesh, after having conceived Him above the flesh, for from no marriage of creatures, no matter how holy they were, could the God-Man be conceived, but only from a wedding of Purity and Love, the Spirit and the Virgin, created without stain so as to be the matrix for the flesh of a God, the Virgin the thought of Whom was God's joy, since before time existed, the Virgin in Whom there is a compendium of the Fathers creative perfection, the joy of Heaven, the salvation of the Earth, the most beautiful flower of Creation of all the flowers of the Universe, a living star before whom all the suns created by the Father seem dull.

Blessed is the Pure One, destined for the Lord.
Blessed is the One Desired by the Trinity, which by desire anticipated the instant of fusing Itself with Her in an embrace of three-fold love.
Blessed is the Victorious Woman who crushes the Tempter under the witness of Her immaculate nature.
Blessed is the Virgin Who knows only the Lord's kiss.
Blessed is the Mother Who has become such out of holy obedience to the will of the Most High.
Blessed is the Martyr Who accepts martyrdom out of mercy on all of us.
Blessed is the Redemptrix of woman and of all the children of woman, Who cancels out Eve and is installed in her place to bear the fruit of life where the Enemy has set the seed of death.

Blessed, blessed, thrice blessed for your "yes," O Mother of Jesus, Who have allowed God to keep the promise made to Abraham, the patriarchs, and the prophets, Who have brought relief to Love, oppressed by having to be the punisher and not the savior, Who have released the Earth from the condemnation brought upon it by Eve.

Blessed, blessed, blessed for Your holy humility, for Your inflamed charity, for Your untouched virginity, for Your divine maternity, multiple, sempiternal, true, and spiritual, Mother Who with Your love and with Your pain give birth continuously to children for the Kingdom of Your Jesus.

Generatrix of grace and salvation, generatrix of divine Mercy, generatrix of the universal Church, may You be blessed eternally for what You have done, as You were eternally blessed for what You would do.

Holy, holy, holy Priestess, Who celebrated the first sacrifice and with part of Yourself prepared the Host to be immolated on the altar of the world.

Holy, holy, holy Mother of Jesus, Who did not cause Him to miss Heaven and the Father's breast, for in You He found another paradise not unlike the one in which the Triad performs Its divine works; Mary, Who are the glory of the Father and the Love of the Spirit."

Jesus became human so the we in our distorted view and limitations could see the real character of God. He pressed the flesh so that we could relate….because how do we relate to an invisible Spirit which God is?

 

[face2face]

To preface, in post #33, you said, "No, the very act of Logos becoming flesh is NOT God becoming sins flesh which is impossible!" In other words, despite your having called Jesus a man, or human earlier, you were denying that the Word became incarnate, or human, because you associate being human to being sinful.

In post #34 and #38, I replied to that saying, "You said the Word becoming flesh isn't God becoming "sins flesh," but I didn't say the Word became a sinful human."

Again, where did I say Jesus was sinful - if you can't show it, retract it, and lets move forward otherwise you run the risk of being insincere.

and

"The Koine Greek word for "flesh" is "σάρξ" (sarx), and one of its definitions is "flesh, body, the soft tissue of a creature, often in contrast to bone, ligament, or sinew," such as that of a human. In Jn. 1:1;14, we read, "The Word was God," and "the Word was made flesh (human, or man), and lived among us [...]." You even acknowledged that Jesus is human, a man, back in post #18. The very act of something fleshless becoming flesh, e.g., human, or man, is an incarnation. Unlike other humans, Jesus, the Word Incarnate, is a human, or man, Who is without sin. (1 Jn. 3:5)"

In post #37, you replied to that saying,

"By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and concerning sin, he (God) condemned sin in the flesh (Jesus), Romans 8:1-3

Explain how God condemned sin in the body and nature of Christ?"

Just like Jn. 1:1, Rom. 8:3 is another way of saying that the Word became incarnate, or human: Jesus, but you cited the latter as if it shows that the Word didn't become incarnate, or human, and said that God condemned sin "in the body and nature (character) of Christ" Himself. However, Jesus wasn't sinful in body and character (1 Jn. 3:5), which is why I asked you to reconcile that verse with your interpretation of Rom. 8:3. Was it not your intention to convey that?

We have the Apostle Paul teaching that Christ had our exact nature and that in that nature, God condemned sin - hence why he had to be like us in every respect.

Next verse!

Therefore he had to be made like his brothers and sisters in every respect, so that he could become a merciful and faithful high priest in things relating to God, to make atonement for the sins of the people Heb 2:17.

Explain why it was essential Jesus be the Son of Man; born of a woman, exactly like you in every respect?

Lets review the points which is a far cry from dualism or your incarnate doctrines.

• Jesus was born into the condemned line of Adam (Why?)
• Jesus was raised up into the condemned line to allow God to condemn sin in the flesh (How did God do this?)
• Though Jesus knew no sin God made him sin for us (Why does Paul use the Word sin?)
• Jesus in nature was like us in every respect (Why was Christ nature so important in becoming a High Priest (sins!)?)

So what are you missing asoul? What do you need to show your Hypostasis? Do these verses support your understanding or speak against it?

I'll put a running list of verses here Romans 8:1-3 and 2 Corinthians 5:20-21; Hebrews 2:14-17

We have many more to come - if at any point you would like to provide a running list of your verses that prove he had a dual nature please list them in your reply.

You are still yet to explain how did God condemn sin in the life and body of the Lord Jesus Christ.

F2F

 

[face2face]

Jesus became human so the we in our distorted view and limitations could see the real character of God. He pressed the flesh so that we could relate….because how do we relate to an invisible Spirit which God is?

Close but you don't go as far as the Apostles - you can't because you are inhibited like asoul by false doctrines.

I have a baptism to undergo, and how distressed I am until it is finished! Lk 12:50.

Why distressed? If you agree the word means agony...what was the baptism? where is the agony? And where did this agony find its end?

Maybe you can help asoul, as he will be getting this verse eventually also.

F2F

 

[face2face]

@asoul

I'll put this commentary here given that it's coming from a traditional Christian source you will see why Romans 8:1-3 unquestionably refutes incarnation and hypostasis - it leaves the Christian with nowhere to go - except to a fundamental truth!

If Christ had not taken on our nature, he could not have been one of us. On the other hand, had he become completely like us (i.e., had he sinned), he could not have become our Savior. Barrett translates “in the form of flesh which had passed under sin’s rule,” which means that “Christ took precisely the same fallen nature that we ourselves have, and that he remained sinless because he constantly overcame a proclivity to sin.” His mission was to put an end to sin, to condemn that evil power that has, since the dawn of history, held the human race in bondage.

Robert H. Mounce, Romans, vol. 27 of The New American Commentary (Nashville: Broadman & Holman Publishers, 1995), 175–176.

Asoul, you will note how Robert draws on Hebrews 2:14-17 (all people being in fear of death because of sin's bondage)

You will also notice how Robert draws to the conclusion Christ had to have our very nature in every respect, meaning Christ was held under deaths dominion until he was released from it through the resurrection.

In time, I will provide you the evidence of this, but for now it's important you understand "why" it was absolutely essential Christ have your nature. I understand this will affect your incarnation doctrine and it will also remove Christ's pre-existence but as we will find you cannot remove sin's flesh from Christ - to do so will remove God's Victory!

God is Righteous and not a deceiver of men!

F2F

 

[LuxMundy]

That is your definition of the Word made Flesh. its not the Bibles definition [...]

The Koine Greek word for "flesh" is "σάρξ" (sarx), and one of its definitions is "flesh, body, the soft tissue of a creature, often in contrast to bone, ligament, or sinew," such as that of a human. In Jn. 1:1;14, we read, "The Word was God", and "the Word was made flesh (human, or man), and lived among us." You even acknowledged that Jesus is human, a man, back in post #18. The very act of something fleshless becoming flesh, e.g., human, or man, is an incarnation.

Again, where did I say Jesus was sinful - if you can't show it, retract it, and lets move forward otherwise you run the risk of being insincere.

Refer back to post #60, especially the first and last paragraph, and you just said it again (note: there's more than one way to say something):

[...] he had to be like us in every respect.

Jesus is a human, and was subject to the temptation of evil like all humans, etc., but He's not like other other humans in every respect, because, for example, He's without sin (1. Jn. 3:5), etc.

Explain why it was essential Jesus be the Son of Man; born of a woman, exactly like you in every respect?

Refer back to the opening post.

8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. 8:2 For the law of the life-giving Spirit in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and death. 8:3 For God achieved what the law could not do because it was weakened through the flesh. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and concerning sin, he (God) condemned sin in the flesh (Jesus), Romans 8:1-3

Explain how God condemned sin in the body and nature of Christ?

Part I

As God gives predestination to Grace to all men and predestination to glory to those amongst men who remain faithful to Grace, so too, does He justify those with a firm will who know in themselves how to activate gifts freely received, or abandoned, or given back, through Jesus Christ. And being Christians not only in name and for having received some signs that are no longer vital in them—because sins in grave matters and their persistence have destroyed them—but true Christians for their voluntary faithfulness to the spiritual law, they are reborn in spirit and through the Holy Spirit and through water, the sign of Grace which cleanses and buries the dead man by restoring the new man, and also through the Spirit of Love and Blood which purifies and cleanses of the sins into which they may have fallen.

With their wills, these [people] carry out their second creation or "recreation" in Christ and through Christ indefatigably, without discouragements or weariness. They form themselves and model themselves on the example and likeness of Christ, Head of the Body of Whom they are His members. Nor, by humbly and sincerely acknowledging themselves as weak or even ignoble members, do they stop forcing themselves in assuming the orderly beauty which shines from the Mystical Body and especially from the Head of It, Jesus; rather, exactly because they recognize themselves as such, do they incessantly work at imitating Christ by taking on, ever more so, the likeness of the perfect Man, Who in His perfection, was the true image and likeness of God to the point of being able to say, "He who sees Me, sees My Father."

United to Him, faithful to Him, willing out of Love for Him of "not walking according to the flesh", you, true Christians, are justified by Him, and your actions, even if they are still imperfect, become good because He clothes them again with the abundance of His infinite merits.

More still: through the Spirit of God which dwells in you and which returns to dwell again in you every time the divine Blood reconsecrates you temples in which Grace-God can dwell, you become renewed, recreated, resuscitated and healed, after having died or been wounded by an actual more or less grave sin.

Therefore, everything comes to us by Him and through Him Who has given everything and Who has suffered everything out of Love for us, and together with His innocent Flesh, made into a pure host, holy and immaculate, He crucified and consumed Sin on the cross.

And He has expiated all sins on His most holy Body. And so that you could clothe yourselves again with the wedding garment, with a cleansed and ornate garment, He clothed Himself with wounds, piercings, bruises, and blood.

The wrath of God brought itself down upon Him, the wrath for our infinite sins, from the first Sin, father of every other, to the last which will be committed, and Justice nailed every sin and extinguished it on His innocent Body. Like a fawn that is being chased by a crowd of archers, so too was He pursued by the arrows of God so that every sin could be expiated with His Blood.

From His Head where there had not been but holy thoughts and from which there had not come but words of Wisdom, Justice, and Love, to His meek feet as the Messenger of peace, of He Who in order to come, had crossed distances and descended into valleys in which no man will ever cross and descend—having crossed the abysmal distance between His divine nature and His human nature; and He descended as far as to the deepest, narrowest, darkest and most contaminated valley of sin and sorrow which is the Earth, so different from the endless Empyrean that is all light, purity, harmony, and joy beyond all human concept, in order to find the Cross on it [Earth], after many trials, hardships, and sufferings—He was from His Head to His Feet no more than one whole [great] wound.

[continued]

 

[LuxMundy]

Part II

And if the stars scattered in the immensity of the heavens cannot be counted, neither could the wounds scattered upon the Immense One be counted, He Who had defined Himself in an expiatory Flesh. Because every wound and bruise was the sum total of the many wounds and blows suffered by He Who, through His divine nature, was not subject to sorrow and death, but Who had made Himself Man in order to take away the sins of the world, to make offerings which redeem every impurity, to know sorrow and death and give Himself up to them in order to give Life to those who died in Grace, and to give the peace of the children of God on Earth and the most joyous glory in Heaven to Its faithful.

God could have been satisfied with other sacrifices of His beloved Son that would not have been those atrocious and infamous ones of the flagellation and of the cross, the torture of criminals and of slaves. The sole mortification of the Word in a flesh, His life subjected to the needs of man, His life amongst sinners, blasphemers and false worshipers of God who were lustful, violent, and liars, solely by sanctifying them His passage amongst them, would have satisfied the Father.

The conversion of man from the disorder of sin to the order of the Law could have come, yes, it could have come solely through the teachings of Christ. The foundation of the Christian religion could have come about only because of the Emmanuel's permanence in Palestine. Others have founded religions which have been able to withstand the centuries, and they were simple men. All the more reason that the foundation of the Christian religion could have been had through Christ, the Word of God Who became Man, during His stay amongst men, because no one was more of a Master than He. God could have even chosen amongst men, the most just one from them, and could have temporarily joined to him the Spirit of His Word so that the new religion could be, through His justice and truth, truly divine.

Original Sin and all others sins could have been wiped out and men could have been redeemed even with a single drop of the Blood of Jesus Christ. The blood that had poured out in the circumcision of His sacrificed prepuce would have been more than enough, so far as the Son of man, being the Innocent One born of the innocent and immaculate Virgin, had not been bound to the rite imposed upon the descendants of Abraham who were part of the Hebrew people. There was no need for an alliance between the Son of Mary and God the Father because He was not the Son of adoption, but the Only Begotten Son of the Most Holy Father.

Christ was Man. However, the Flesh He took upon Himself did not abolish the Divinity in Him even though the two natures had joined themselves in His one Person without any of the two undergoing mutations to Their true substance. Therefore, the Man-Christ and God, throughout time, was still and always God, One with the Father and Holy Spirit, as He was before the Incarnation, and He was truly Man for having been made of a Woman, through the power of the Holy Spirit, without any concupiscence of the flesh and without any subjection to original Sin or to any other sin.

If only those drops of divine Blood were to have been enough to redeem Humanity without adding so many martyrs to Its total effusion. However, in the true union of the two natures in one sole person, in the annihilation of a God first in a flesh, and in a total immolation later, lies the degree of the immensity of divine love and of the gravity of the Sin, just as in the resurrection lies the undeniable proof of the true personality of Jesus of Nazareth, the Christ, the Emmanuel, Son of God and Son of Man, without any possibility of doubt or error. Because only a God could have by Himself resurrected Himself in His human part, after such an awful death and burial, and risen gloriously, without any traces of wounds other than those beneficial ones of the Five Wounds made most beautiful—He Who already was the most "Beautiful amongst the sons of men" not only for having inherited maternal beauty and for being free of flaws consequent to the Sin, but also through a divine gift necessary for His mission and for His end—made most beautiful, even more majestic and powerful than the beauty of glorified bodies.

Eveyrything could have been enough for the Father in order to reach the goal of being able to deliver Grace to the fallen man, and the Father could have done anything without reaching that abyss of annihilation and that summit of sorrow which He had wanted for His Son so that Sin could be wiped out and Heaven re-opened to the adoptive children of God. However, what consequences would have resulted? Those of new sins of rebellion, of disorder, of pride, of harshness, and of denial which would have precipitated Humanity once again into the abyss drawn out from it by the Redeemer, and His work as Master, Founder, and Sanctifier of men would have all been for nothing.

Would proud Humanity, and that of Israel more than any other, have perhaps bowed its forehead before the doctrine, the justice, the declarations of a man, and a man of the people, of the son of a carpenter of Nazareth, if it did not even yield to the prodigies of His miracles and of His Resurrection and Ascension? Would the power of a man even if most holy, whom God had temporarily joined, have attained its purpose of making a religion acceptable so contrary in its doctrines, to the triple concupiscence which bites, burns, and renders men insane? Was it convenient and just that the most perfect Religion should be preached and founded through the sole permanence of the Emmanuel in Palestine? Is one to think of a world converted [solely] by the teachings of a man even if very wise?

[continued]

 

[LuxMundy]

Part III

None of these things can have an affirmative answer. It would not have been possible, neither just, nor convenient. Because man would've rendered it useless and impossible to follow with His quibblings, incredulity, unjust scandals, and foolish and irreverent ironies.

Because the religion of Christ was to be universal, and it had always been contemplated as such by the divine Thought; for this reason, it was to be sustained, backed, and acknowledged as unique and perfect, everlasting till the end of the centuries, worthy of being followed by all nations, not only by the Palestinian nation already the "People of God" who mutated themselves, however, over the course of the centuries and especially in the last three years of the earthly life of the Incarnate Word, into the "People of the anti-god."

Because the disproportion between sin and expiation would have been too great, between the ocean of past, present and future sins of the whole of Humanity, from Adam to the last living being, and the extent of the sacrifice, if this had not been that of a total immolation.

Because the proof of the true Personality of Jesus Christ would have indeed been too weak for the many incredulous if He had returned to the Father after having accomplished His mission as the Master, Founder, and Sanctifier without having first been tortured and killed in that manner and in the presence of the multitudes of every nation who had gathered in Jerusalem for Passover, so that both the prevaricating and deicidal Israelites and the Gentiles ignorant of the true God had become, in spite of themselves, witnesses and testifies of the true Personality of Jesus Christ, God and Man; He Who by Himself rose from the dead and appeared to many after the Resurrection, after having been captured, tortured, and killed by those of His own people and confirmed dead by the spear of the Roman, and Who ascended into Heaven through His own power, again in the sight of many who had rushed back to Jerusalem for the imminent harvest festival or of the seven weeks, later called Pentecost, from every part of the Diaspora, be they pure Israelites or proselytes, or mixed families made up of Gentiles and Hebrews.

Nothing is without reason in the things established or permitted by God. And the reason is perfect and good. Thus Christ was Immolated on the Friday of the Passover, arose while the crowds of the Passover remained, and ascended forty days later when the city was once again crowded by pilgrims who were returning for the Pentecost or who had stopped in order to perform the two-fold rite of presentation of every male in the Temple, for the last two feasts of spring.

Those pilgrims, by scattering afterwards in order to return to the cities of their own Diaspora, and also elsewhere, would have spread the story of the prodigies seen wherever they lived, and unbeknown to them, they would have served to divulge the truth to the world that Jesus of Nazareth was the Son of God, the One Foretold by the Prophets, the [long] awaited Messiah, Savior and Redeemer; as to the same purpose Pontius Pilate served in his relationship with Gaius Tiberius Caesar on the trial and condemnation of "a Hebrew from Nazareth of the name Jesus, killed by the will of the people because He was accused of subverting the nation and of instigating the people not to pay tributes to Caesar since there was only one king upon the Earth and that man was Him: Jesus;" as Longinus and the other legionaries served, who saw the meekness and the shining majesty even under the garment of wounds that disfigured the Martyr, who heard the solemn words in the interrogation of the Proconsul, and who along the way to Calvary and from the cross were witnesses to the prodigies that accompanied His death.

Everything and everyone served to testify that Jesus of Nazareth was the Son of God.

Observe and meditate, in what times the principle events of Christ occurred. The Birth occurred when the edict of a Caesar called back the Hebrews scattered throughout the Earth to their city of origin in order to be registered. The Death, Resurrection, and Ascension occur when the commands of the Mosaic Law gather the scattered children of Israel around the Holy of the Temple in the Holy City.

It is Humanity who must be saved by that Infant crying in a manger. And Humanity, represented not only by Palestinians but also by Hebrews exiled in other nations, assembles itself, during that time, in the nation where He is born.

It is Humanity who must be redeemed by the innocent Lamb of God dying on the Cross, who assembles itself in the deicidal and homicidal city during that time in which He is immolated so as to be present at the crime carried out at the time and in the manner foretold by the Prophets for the Messiah King: Man-God.

It is Humanity once again who is shaken with perturbations and remorses, by doubts and assertions, and who must be confirmed in Faith, who is present when, between the shaking of the second earthquake, the Man Who was killed rises as the Sepulchre empties itself of the Living One vainly killed and who has the reply of the God One and Trine, a placating or distressing reply on the Man from Nazareth.

And it is Humanity once more, who is still doubtful because it is always proud and arrogant, who is present in the radiant morning of Nisan when He who was not wished to be acknowledged for that which he was, nor listened to, but rather is put to death in the hope of extinguishing His voice, ascends to Heaven, the eternal Word and Love Who will always speak, Who will always inflame men of good will out of love for Him, and it is Humanity who sees Him ascending into the light of the sun, brightens than it [sun] on account of the luminous beauty and properties of the glorious bodies.

And in the end, it is Humanity, still hesitant after so many proofs, who is present at the pentecostal miracle, at the epiphany of the teaching Church, the Church which, not through its own capacity but for having been filled with the Holy Spirit, of the incorporeal Third Person of the Eternal Triad Who had descended upon the Earth—as the Second Person had said before completing His sacrifice and before ascending into Heaven, the Heaven from which He had descended through the will of the First Person, and for a sole trine love Who wills, in One, that which the other Two will, They being a sole Unity in three Persons—begins its wise and infallible teachings in the truths of Religion.

The words of God are works of truth and light. They are performed in the light and affirmed in the truth. Truth loves and seeks light. Light makes the truth shine even to the pupils (of the eye) that wish to be blind. And this is so they cannot say, "We did not see" and it is so that the condemnation which will be given to them by the divine Judge will be a condemnation motivated by their wicked will, voluntarily deserved for having made themselves obstinately blind in order to not acknowledge the truth.

God, in His loving will, acts in a manner in which everyone can see the Truth in order to have a way of saving themselves. The desire of God is the salvation of everyone. Glory for all is His supreme sigh. The refusal of salvation and glory on the part of too many is His infinite sorrow.

In order that all those who are of good will could have justification, salvation, and glory, He sent His Word amongst men and clothed Him with a pure, holy, and immaculate Flesh so that the wisdom of God could speak to the crowds and teach them, and so that the Lamb of God could be immolated and thus be able to redeem Humanity from the Sin which had deprived it of Grace; and also so that men recreated for supernatural life could walk along the way of Christ and reach the celestial Kingdom, the knowledge and vision of God, and the eternal and glorious Life for whose end the Creator had created them.

 

[face2face]

The Koine Greek word for "flesh" is "σάρξ" (sarx), and one of its definitions is "flesh, body, the soft tissue of a creature, often in contrast to bone, ligament, or sinew," such as that of a human. In Jn. 1:1;14, we read, "The Word was God," and "the Word was made flesh (human, or man), and lived among us." You even acknowledged that Jesus is human, a man, back in post #18. The very act of something fleshless becoming flesh, e.g., human, or man, is an incarnation.

Copy and pasting the same false teachings isn't going to make them true, if anything you only show they are false.

Jesus is a human, and was subject to the temptation of evil like all humans, etc., but He's not like other other humans in every respect, because, for example, He's without sin (1. Jn. 3:5), etc.

This is the second time you have spoken against the Word of the Apostle. The first was you importing error on John 1.

Part I

As God gives predestination to Grace to all men and predestination to glory to those amongst men who remain faithful to Grace, so too, does He justify those with a firm will who know in themselves how to activate gifts freely received, or abandoned, or given back, through Jesus Christ. And being Christians not only in name and for having received some signs that are no longer vital in them—because sins in grave matters and their persistence have destroyed them—but true Christians for their voluntary faithfulness to the spiritual law, they are reborn in spirit and through the Holy Spirit and through water, the sign of Grace which cleanses and buries the dead man by restoring the new man, and also through the Spirit of Love and Blood which purifies and cleanses of the sins into which they may have fallen.

With their wills, these [people] carry out their second creation or "recreation" in Christ and through Christ indefatigably, without discouragements or weariness. They form themselves and model themselves on the example and likeness of Christ, Head of the Body of Whom they are His members. Nor, by humbly and sincerely acknowledging themselves as weak or even ignoble members, do they stop forcing themselves in assuming the orderly beauty which shines from the Mystical Body and especially from the Head of It, Jesus; rather, exactly because they recognize themselves as such, do they incessantly work at imitating Christ by taking on, ever more so, the likeness of the perfect Man, Who in His perfection, was the true image and likeness of God to the point of being able to say, "He who sees Me, sees My Father."

United to Him, faithful to Him, willing out of Love for Him of "not walking according to the flesh," you, true Christians, are justified by Him, and your actions, even if they are still imperfect, become good because He clothes them again with the abundance of His infinite merits.

More still: through the Spirit of God which dwells in you and which returns to dwell again in you every time the divine Blood reconsecrates you temples in which Grace-God can dwell, you become renewed, recreated, resuscitated and healed, after having died or been wounded by an actual more or less grave sin.

Therefore, everything comes to us by Him and through Him Who has given everything and Who has suffered everything out of Love for us, and together with His innocent Flesh, made into a pure host, holy and immaculate, He crucified and consumed Sin on the cross.

And He has expiated all sins on His most holy Body. And so that you could clothe yourselves again with the wedding garment, with a cleansed and ornate garment, He clothed Himself with wounds, piercings, bruises, and blood.

The wrath of God brought itself down upon Him, the wrath for our infinite sins, from the first Sin, father of every other, to the last which will be committed, and Justice nailed every sin and extinguished it on His innocent Body. Like a fawn that is being chased by a crowd of archers, so too was He pursued by the arrows of God so that every sin could be expiated with His Blood.

From His Head where there had not been but holy thoughts and from which there had not come but words of Wisdom, Justice, and Love, to His meek feet as the Messenger of peace, of He Who in order to come, had crossed distances and descended into valleys in which no man will ever cross and descend—having crossed the abysmal distance between His divine nature and His human nature; and He descended as far as to the deepest, narrowest, darkest and most contaminated valley of sin and sorrow which is the Earth, so different from the endless Empyrean that is all light, purity, harmony, and joy beyond all human concept, in order to find the Cross on it [Earth], after many trials, hardships, and sufferings—He was from His Head to His Feet no more than one whole [great] wound.

[Continued]

Can you post the source thanks

 

[face2face]

@asoul

Your 3 part copy and paste diatribe has nothing to do with what we are discussing. It's as though your well has become dry so you have gone and taken someone else bitter waters.

When you come to your senses and you wish to resume a discussion on the true nature of Christ, let me know.

F2F

 

[face2face]

@asoul Post #65 stands as being unanswered. While you consider those three text lets add a fourth shall we?

We left off by proving from the Apostles own hand that Christ is like you in "every respect"...this presented an issue for you and your incarnation dogma. You revealed your hand that you cannot speak to those verses and by this have admitted your doctrine is the machinations of men.

Why was Christ made like us in every respect?

We know that Christ, being raised from the dead, will never die again; death no longer has dominion over him.Romans 6:9

As a result of the Lords death, death no longer has dominion over him.

This is where you begin your understanding of the true Christ, your Lord.

Romans 8:1-3 and 2 Corinthians 5:20-21; Hebrews 2:14-17; Romans 6:9

I asked you to provide verses in support of your incarnation doctrine and you dumped meaningless words but the above inspired text from the Apostles is your true source of truth.

I'm interested to see how far you will go before you either walk away or you allow the Word to give its light.

F2F

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

I didn't say that there's no Koine Greek word at all for "blessed" that means "happy." You were addressing the word "blessed" in Lk. 1:42 when you said, "'Blessed'" is really translated, happy," but again, the Koine Greek word used for "blessed" in that verse is "Εὐλογημένη" (eulogeō), and "happy" isn't one of its definitions. See below.

You evidently didn't read the second half of my post, in which I addressed the other usage of the word blessed.

Part III

None of these things can have an affirmative answer. It would not have been possible, neither just, nor convenient. Because man would've rendered it useless and impossible to follow with His quibblings, incredulity, unjust scandals, and foolish and irreverent ironies.

Because the religion of Christ was to be universal, and it had always been contemplated as such by the divine Thought; for this reason, it was to be sustained, backed, and acknowledged as unique and perfect, everlasting till the end of the centuries, worthy of being followed by all nations, not only by the Palestinian nation already the "People of God" who mutated themselves, however, over the course of the centuries and especially in the last three years of the earthly life of the Incarnate Word, into the "People of the anti-god."

Because the disproportion between sin and expiation would have been too great, between the ocean of past, present and future sins of the whole of Humanity, from Adam to the last living being, and the extent of the sacrifice, if this had not been that of a total immolation.

Because the proof of the true Personality of Jesus Christ would have indeed been too weak for the many incredulous if He had returned to the Father after having accomplished His mission as the Master, Founder, and Sanctifier without having first been tortured and killed in that manner and in the presence of the multitudes of every nation who had gathered in Jerusalem for Passover, so that both the prevaricating and deicidal Israelites and the Gentiles ignorant of the true God had become, in spite of themselves, witnesses and testifies of the true Personality of Jesus Christ, God and Man; He Who by Himself rose from the dead and appeared to many after the Resurrection, after having been captured, tortured, and killed by those of His own people and confirmed dead by the spear of the Roman, and Who ascended into Heaven through His own power, again in the sight of many who had rushed back to Jerusalem for the imminent harvest festival or of the seven weeks, later called Pentecost, from every part of the Diaspora, be they pure Israelites or proselytes, or mixed families made up of Gentiles and Hebrews.

Nothing is without reason in the things established or permitted by God. And the reason is perfect and good. Thus Christ was Immolated on the Friday of the Passover, arose while the crowds of the Passover remained, and ascended forty days later when the city was once again crowded by pilgrims who were returning for the Pentecost or who had stopped in order to perform the two-fold rite of presentation of every male in the Temple, for the last two feasts of spring.

Those pilgrims, by scattering afterwards in order to return to the cities of their own Diaspora, and also elsewhere, would have spread the story of the prodigies seen wherever they lived, and unbeknown to them, they would have served to divulge the truth to the world that Jesus of Nazareth was the Son of God, the One Foretold by the Prophets, the [long] awaited Messiah, Savior and Redeemer; as to the same purpose Pontius Pilate served in his relationship with Gaius Tiberius Caesar on the trial and condemnation of "a Hebrew from Nazareth of the name Jesus, killed by the will of the people because He was accused of subverting the nation and of instigating the people not to pay tributes to Caesar since there was only one king upon the Earth and that man was Him: Jesus;" as Longinus and the other legionaries served, who saw the meekness and the shining majesty even under the garment of wounds that disfigured the Martyr, who heard the solemn words in the interrogation of the Proconsul, and who along the way to Calvary and from the cross were witnesses to the prodigies that accompanied His death.

Everything and everyone served to testify that Jesus of Nazareth was the Son of God.

Observe and meditate, in what times the principle events of Christ occurred. The Birth occurred when the edict of a Caesar called back the Hebrews scattered throughout the Earth to their city of origin in order to be registered. The Death, Resurrection, and Ascension occur when the commands of the Mosaic Law gather the scattered children of Israel around the Holy of the Temple in the Holy City.

It is Humanity who must be saved by that Infant crying in a manger. And Humanity, represented not only by Palestinians but also by Hebrews exiled in other nations, assembles itself, during that time, in the nation where He is born.

It is Humanity who must be redeemed by the innocent Lamb of God dying on the Cross, who assembles itself in the deicidal and homicidal city during that time in which He is immolated so as to be present at the crime carried out at the time and in the manner foretold by the Prophets for the Messiah King: Man-God.

It is Humanity once again who is shaken with perturbations and remorses, by doubts and assertions, and who must be confirmed in Faith, who is present when between the shaking of the second earthquake, the Man Who was killed rises as the Sepulchre empties itself of the Living One vainly killed and who has the reply of the God One and Trine, a placating or distressing reply on the Man from Nazareth.

And it is Humanity once more, who is still doubtful because it is always proud and arrogant, who is present in the radiant morning of Nisan when He who was not wished to be acknowledged for that which he was, nor listened to, but rather is put to death in the hope of extinguishing His voice, ascends to Heaven, the eternal Word and Love Who will always speak, Who will always inflame men of good will out of love for Him, and it is Humanity who sees Him ascending into the light of the sun, brightens than it [sun] on account of the luminous beauty and properties of the glorious bodies.

And in the end, it is Humanity, still hesitant after so many proofs, who is present at the pentecostal miracle, at the epiphany of the teaching Church, the Church which, not through its own capacity but for having been filled with the Holy Spirit, of the incorporeal Third Person of the Eternal Triad Who had descended upon the Earth—as the Second Person had said before completing His sacrifice and before ascending into Heaven, the Heaven from which He had descended through the will of the First Person, and for a sole trine love Who wills, in One, that which the other Two will, They being a sole Unity in three Persons—begins its wise and infallible teachings in the truths of Religion.

The words of God are works of truth and light. They are performed in the light and affirmed in the truth. Truth loves and seeks light. Light makes the truth shine even to the pupils (of the eye) that wish to be blind. And this is so they cannot say, "We did not see" and it is so that the condemnation which will be given to them by the divine Judge will be a condemnation motivated by their wicked will, voluntarily deserved for having made themselves obstinately blind in order to not acknowledge the truth.

God, in His loving will, acts in a manner in which everyone can see the Truth in order to have a way of saving themselves. The desire of God is the salvation of everyone. Glory for all is His supreme sigh. The refusal of salvation and glory on the part of too many is His infinite sorrow.

In order that all those who are of good will could have justification, salvation, and glory, He sent His Word amongst men and clothed Him with a pure, holy, and immaculate Flesh so that the wisdom of God could speak to the crowds and teach them, and so that the Lamb of God could be immolated and thus be able to redeem Humanity from the Sin which had deprived it of Grace; and also so that men recreated for supernatural life could walk along the way of Christ and reach the celestial Kingdom, the knowledge and vision of God, and the eternal and glorious Life for whose end the Creator had created them.

Are you using ChatGpT 4.0???

Nobody communicates like this, even modern professors with PhD. It seems you programed your AI to communicate by accessing early fathers (Augustine) and Apostles Creed styles, writings and dissertations.

Time to come clean. We had one guy recently doing this and it became obvious, he added "Pirate expressions" to his posts for a humorous effect. But what gave it away was not so much the creative genius of the posts, but that he processed numerous lengthy posts in several threads, analyzed them and gave lengthy, detailed articulate posts that would each have required much time and research all within 1 hour.

 

[LuxMundy]

You evidently didn't read the second half of my post, in which I addressed the other usage of the word blessed.

I did read it, as well as noticed that it was edited in by you after I had already brought it up. Back to the point, you were addressing the word "blessed" in Lk. 1:42 when you said, "'Blessed'" is really translated, happy", so at that time you hadn't yet learned from me that the Koine Greek word used for "blessed" in that verse is "Εὐλογημένη" (eulogeō), and that "happy" isn't one of its definitions.

Are you using ChatGpT 4.0???

Nobody communicates like this, even modern professors with PhD. It seems you programed your AI to communicate by accessing early fathers (Augustine) and Apostles Creed styles, writings and dissertations.

Time to come clean. We had one guy recently doing this and it became obvious, he added "Pirate expressions" to his posts for a humorous effect. But what gave it away was not so much the creative genius of the posts, but that he processed numerous lengthy posts in several threads, analyzed them and gave lengthy, detailed articulate posts that would each have required much time and research all within 1 hour.

No, I used my own hands to type it out, and it took me more than an hour and a half to finish.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

I did read it, as well as noticed that it was edited in by you after I had already brought it up. Back to the point, you were addressing the word "blessed" in Lk. 1:42 when you said, "'Blessed'" is really translated, happy," so at that time you hadn't yet learned from me that the Koine Greek word used for "blessed" in that verse is "Εὐλογημένη" (eulogeō), and that "happy" isn't one of its definitions.



No, I used my own hands to type it out, and it took me more than an hour and a half to finish.

Okay, you are not using AI. Emmm ... Are your posts all your material (excluding the obvious Greek/Strongs stuff; or are you cutting and pasting theological writings of others? Just sounds like it has an Augustinaian style or even from Apostles creed early writing styles.

>>> "It is Humanity once again who is shaken with perturbations and remorses, by doubts and assertions, and who must be confirmed in Faith, who is present when between the shaking of the second earthquake, the Man Who was killed rises as the Sepulchre empties itself of the Living One vainly killed and who has the reply of the God One and Trine, a placating or distressing reply on the Man from Nazareth."

Is that your writing????
Whether your views are right or wrong; and if those are your words, you are a talented writer.
If so, you are wasting your talents on this board, should be writing books, teaching, preaching.

 

[LuxMundy]

Copy and pasting the same false teachings isn't going to make them true, if anything you only show they are false.

Quote which part(s) of the following you believe is false:

"The Koine Greek word for "flesh" is "σάρξ" (sarx), and one of its definitions is "flesh, body, the soft tissue of a creature, often in contrast to bone, ligament, or sinew", such as that of a human. In Jn. 1:1;14, we read, "The Word was God", and "the Word was made flesh (human, or man), and lived among us." You even acknowledged that Jesus is human, a man, back in post #18. The very act of something fleshless becoming flesh, e.g., human, or man, is an incarnation."

This is the second time you have spoken against the Word of the Apostle.

You said that Jesus is "like us in every respect", but that isn't true, because again, for example, He's a human without sin, i.e., He didn't commit sins (1. Jn. 3:5), etc.

Can you post the source thanks

No, because I think you're asking for the source so you can automatically attack them, regardless of who it is, to avoid addressing my explanation. Whether or not that's true, I've provided my explanation for Rom. 8:3 like you asked. If you've read and contest any part of it, quote which part(s), and respond with your counterargument to it.

Your 3 part copy and paste diatribe has nothing to do with what we are discussing.

What makes my three-part explanation of Rom. 8:1-4 a diatribe, and how is it unrelated to those verses?

I asked you to provide verses in support of your incarnation doctrine and you dumped meaningless words but the above inspired text from the Apostles is your true source of truth.

You asked me to explain Rom. 8:3, and I went above and beyond by explaining Rom. 8:1-4. You also asked me to explain why it was essential that Jesus be the Son of Man, and I already had, but not only that, I also explained why our Redeemer needed to be God, or Son of God, as well, and thus I referred you back to the opening post.

[...] if at any point you would like to provide a running list of your verses that prove he had a dual nature please list them in your reply.

Refer back to post #17.

 

[face2face]

Quote which part(s) of the following you believe is false:

"The Koine Greek word for "flesh" is "σάρξ" (sarx), and one of its definitions is "flesh, body, the soft tissue of a creature, often in contrast to bone, ligament, or sinew," such as that of a human. In Jn. 1:1;14, we read, "The Word was God," and "the Word was made flesh (human, or man), and lived among us." You even acknowledged that Jesus is human, a man, back in post #18. The very act of something fleshless becoming flesh, e.g., human, or man, is an incarnation."

I see where you are at and your inability to deal with this subject Biblically is not possible given your confirmation bias toward the Nicene Creeds.

You said that Jesus is "like us in every respect," but that isn't true, because again, for example, He's a human without sin, i.e., He didn't commit sins (1. Jn. 3:5), etc.

Correct in nature, "every" means every!

No, because I think you're asking for the source so you can automatically attack them, regardless of who it is, to avoid addressing my explanation.

The information was irrelevant which I think you already know but it was a way of diverting your attention away from four key passages which speak to the true nature of Christ.

Whether or not that's true, I've provided my explanation for Rom. 8:3 like you asked. If you've read and contest any part of it, quote which part(s), and respond with your counter-argument to it.

That was not a explanation of Romans 8:1-3 at all, as it dealt with none of the content of that section of Scripture. Try again, its clear you havnt looked at this before else why would you go looking for a source?

What makes my three-part explanation of Rom. 8:1-4 a diatribe, and how is it unrelated to those verses?

You have not dealt with the content of those verses.

Have another go but in your own words!

You asked me to explain Rom. 8:3, and I went above and beyond by explaining Rom. 8:1-4. You also asked me to explain why it was essential that Jesus be the Son of Man, and I already had, but not only that, I also explained why our Redeemer needed to be God, or Son of God, as well, and thus I referred you back to the opening post.
Refer back to post #17.

Lets present a 5th verse for you to consider!

He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree, that we might die to sin and live to righteousness. By his wounds you have been healed. 1 Peter 2:24

1. How were your sins represented in his body?
2. How many times did Jesus die to sin?

If you have any intelligence at all you would be searching the truth of these verses and gradually starting to see the conflict in your understanding compared to the Apostles.

I'm showing you the original Gospel untouched by human hands,

Romans 8:1-3 and 2 Corinthians 5:20-21; Hebrews 2:14-17; Romans 6:9: 1 Peter 2:24

Give those questions a good asoul

F2F

 

[LuxMundy]

Copy and pasting the same false teachings isn't going to make them true, if anything you only show they are false.

Quote which part(s) of the following you believe is false:

"The Koine Greek word for "flesh" is "σάρξ" (sarx), and one of its definitions is "flesh, body, the soft tissue of a creature, often in contrast to bone, ligament, or sinew", such as that of a human. In Jn. 1:1;14, we read, "The Word was God", and "the Word was made flesh (human, or man), and lived among us." You even acknowledged that Jesus is human, a man, back in post #18. The very act of something fleshless becoming flesh, e.g., human, or man, is an incarnation."

Correct in nature, "every" means every!

Part of human nature is committing sins, but, for example, Jesus was a human Who didn't commit sins (1 Jn. 3:5), and thus He's not like us in every respect.

The information was irrelevant [...]

If you read all three parts, then explain what it's about, if you want to substantiate your assertion that it doesn't have to do with Rom. 8:1-4.

 

[face2face]

Quote which part(s) of the following you believe is false:

"The Koine Greek word for "flesh" is "σάρξ" (sarx), and one of its definitions is "flesh, body, the soft tissue of a creature, often in contrast to bone, ligament, or sinew," such as that of a human. In Jn. 1:1;14, we read, "The Word was God," and "the Word was made flesh (human, or man), and lived among us." You even acknowledged that Jesus is human, a man, back in post #18. The very act of something fleshless becoming flesh, e.g., human, or man, is an incarnation."



Part of human nature is committing sins, but, for example, Jesus was a human Who didn't commit sins (1 Jn. 3:5), and thus He's not like us in every respect.



If you read all three parts, then explain what it's about, if you want to substantiate your assertion that it doesn't have to do with Rom. 8:1-4.

Looks like you have run out of steam asoul.
I'll leave you there I think.
I come back to this thread for the sake of those who cannot answer those 5 key verses though I'm thinking so few even know them
F2F