Why did our Redeemer need to be both God and Man?

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LuxMundy

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Why did our Redeemer need to be both God and Man?

"Blessed are you among all women" (Lk. 1:42)

This blessing, which we say poorly or do not say at all, to Her Who with Her sacrifice began the Redemption, continually resounds in Heaven, pronounced with infinite love by the Trinity, with inflamed charity by those saved by their sacrifice, and by the angelic choirs. All paradise blesses Mary, the masterwork of universal Creation and Divine Mercy.

Even if all the Father's work to create the Earth from nothing had served only to receive Mary, the work of Creation would have had its reason for being, for the perfection of this Creature is such that it is testimony not only of the wisdom and power, but also of the love with which God created the world.

Since the earthly creation has instead yielded Adam and Adam's race, Mary witnesses to the merciful superlove of God towards man, for through Mary, Mother of the Redeemer, God has worked the salvation of the human race. Jesus is the Christ because Mary conceived Him and gave Him to the World.

Some will say that as God Jesus could have overcome the need to take flesh in a woman's womb. He could do all, it's true. But reflect on the law of order and goodness which lies in His annihilation in mortal clothing.

The sin committed by man had to be expiated by man and not by the non-incarnate divinity. How could the Divinity, incorporeal Spirit, redeem the sins of the flesh with the sacrifice of Itself? It was, then, necessary that God should pay for the sins of flesh and blood with the agony of an innocent Flesh and Blood, born of an innocent woman.

His mind, His feeling, and His Spirit would have suffered for our sins in mind, feeling, and spirit. But to be the Redemption of all forms of concupiscence inoculated into Adam and his descendants by the Tempter, the One Immolated for them all had to be endowed with a nature like ours, made worthy of being given as a ransom to God by the Divinity hidden in it, like a gem of infinite supernatural value hidden under common, natural clothing.

God is order, and God does not violate or do violence to order, except in very exceptional cases, judged useful by His intelligence. Such was not the case with His Redemption.

He had not only to cancel sin from the moment it occurred until the moment of the sacrifice and annul in those to come the effects of sin by having them be born unaware of evil.
No. With a total sacrifice He had to make reparation for Sin and all the sins of all mankind, give the men already dead absolution of sin, and give those living at that time and in the future the means to be helped to resist evil and to be forgiven for the evil which their weakness would lead them to do.

His sacrifice thus had to be such as to present all the necessary requisites, and it could be such only in a God made man: a host worthy of God, a means understood by man. In addition, He was coming to bring the Law.


If His humanity had not existed, how could we—His poor brothers and sisters, who labor to have faith in Him, who lived for thirty-three years on the earth, a Man among men—have believed? And, how could He appear, already an adult, to hostile or ignorant peoples, making them convinced of His nature and His doctrine? He would then have appeared, in the eyes of the world, as a spirit Who had taken on a human likeness, but not as a man who was born and died, shedding real blood through the wounds of a real flesh—as proof of being a man—and rose again and ascended to Heaven with His glorified body—as proof of being God returning to His eternal dwelling.

Isn't it sweeter for us to think that He is really our brother, with the destiny of creatures who are born, live, suffer, and die, than to conceive of Him as a spirit superior to the exigencies of humanity?

It was necessary, then, for a woman to give birth to Him according to the flesh, after having conceived Him above the flesh, for from no marriage of creatures, no matter how holy they were, could the God-Man be conceived, but only from a wedding of Purity and Love, the Spirit and the Virgin, created without stain so as to be the matrix for the flesh of a God, the Virgin the thought of Whom was God's joy, since before time existed, the Virgin in Whom there is a compendium of the Fathers creative perfection, the joy of Heaven, the salvation of the Earth, the most beautiful flower of Creation of all the flowers of the Universe, a living star before whom all the suns created by the Father seem dull.

Blessed is the Pure One, destined for the Lord.
Blessed is the One Desired by the Trinity, which by desire anticipated the instant of fusing Itself with Her in an embrace of three-fold love.
Blessed is the Victorious Woman who crushes the Tempter under the witness of Her immaculate nature.
Blessed is the Virgin Who knows only the Lord's kiss.
Blessed is the Mother Who has become such out of holy obedience to the will of the Most High.
Blessed is the Martyr Who accepts martyrdom out of mercy on all of us.
Blessed is the Redemptrix of woman and of all the children of woman, Who cancels out Eve and is installed in her place to bear the fruit of life where the Enemy has set the seed of death.

Blessed, blessed, thrice blessed for your "yes," O Mother of Jesus, Who have allowed God to keep the promise made to Abraham, the patriarchs, and the prophets, Who have brought relief to Love, oppressed by having to be the punisher and not the savior, Who have released the Earth from the condemnation brought upon it by Eve.

Blessed, blessed, blessed for Your holy humility, for Your inflamed charity, for Your untouched virginity, for Your divine maternity, multiple, sempiternal, true, and spiritual, Mother Who with Your love and with Your pain give birth continuously to children for the Kingdom of Your Jesus.

Generatrix of grace and salvation, generatrix of divine Mercy, generatrix of the universal Church, may You be blessed eternally for what You have done, as You were eternally blessed for what You would do.

Holy, holy, holy Priestess, Who celebrated the first sacrifice and with part of Yourself prepared the Host to be immolated on the altar of the world.

Holy, holy, holy Mother of Jesus, Who did not cause Him to miss Heaven and the Father's breast, for in You He found another paradise not unlike the one in which the Triad performs Its divine works; Mary, Who are the glory of the Father and the Love of the Spirit."
 
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Cyd

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Why did our Redeemer need to be both God and Man?
Well I don't agree with all you posted at all but to answer your question... it is written as to why.

Isaiah 43:11 (KJV) I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.

Hosea 13:4 (KJV) Yet I am the LORD thy God from the land of Egypt, and thou shalt know no god but me: for there is no saviour beside me.

.
 
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LuxMundy

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Well I don't agree with all you posted at all but to answer your question... it is written as to why.

Isaiah 43:11 (KJV) I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.

Hosea 13:4 (KJV) Yet I am the LORD thy God from the land of Egypt, and thou shalt know no god but me: for there is no saviour beside me.

Those verses are true and they don't contradict the opening post.
 

TrevorHL

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Greetings asoul,
Blessed is the One Desired by the Trinity, which by desire anticipated the instant of fusing Itself with Her in an embrace of three-fold love.
A most unusual post with many strange ideas completely outside Scriptural truth. For example, there is no such thing as the Trinity, as Jesus is the Son of God, not God the Son and Mary is both dead and buried awaiting the resurrection when Christ returns.

Kind regards
Trevor
 
L

LuxMundy

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Greetings asoul,

A most unusual post with many strange ideas completely outside Scriptural truth. For example, there is no such thing as the Trinity and Mary is both dead and buried awaiting the resurrection when Christ returns.

Kind regards
Trevor

The Holy Trinity is the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit (Matt. 28:19), and God is not of the dead, but the living (Ex. 3:6, Matt. 22:32, Mk. 12:27, Lk. 20:38).
 
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Bruce-Leiter

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Why did our Redeemer need to be both God and Man?

"Blessed are you among all women" (Lk. 1:42)

This blessing, which we say poorly or do not say at all, to Her Who with Her sacrifice began the Redemption, continually resounds in Heaven, pronounced with infinite love by the Trinity, with inflamed charity by those saved by their sacrifice, and by the angelic choirs. All paradise blesses Mary, the masterwork of universal Creation and Divine Mercy.

Even if all the Father's work to create the Earth from nothing had served only to receive Mary, the work of Creation would have had its reason for being, for the perfection of this Creature is such that it is testimony not only of the wisdom and power, but also of the love with which God created the world.

Since the earthly creation has instead yielded Adam and Adam's race, Mary witnesses to the merciful superlove of God towards man, for through Mary, Mother of the Redeemer, God has worked the salvation of the human race. Jesus is the Christ because Mary conceived Him and gave Him to the World.

Some will say that as God Jesus could have overcome the need to take flesh in a woman's womb. He could do all, it's true. But reflect on the law of order and goodness which lies in His annihilation in mortal clothing.

The sin committed by man had to be expiated by man and not by the non-incarnate divinity. How could the Divinity, incorporeal Spirit, redeem the sins of the flesh with the sacrifice of Itself? It was, then, necessary that God should pay for the sins of flesh and blood with the agony of an innocent Flesh and Blood, born of an innocent woman.

His mind, His feeling, and His Spirit would have suffered for our sins in mind, feeling, and spirit. But to be the Redemption of all forms of concupiscence inoculated into Adam and his descendants by the Tempter, the One Immolated for them all had to be endowed with a nature like ours, made worthy of being given as a ransom to God by the Divinity hidden in it, like a gem of infinite supernatural value hidden under common, natural clothing.

God is order, and God does not violate or do violence to order, except in very exceptional cases, judged useful by His intelligence. Such was not the case with His Redemption.

He had not only to cancel sin from the moment it occurred until the moment of the sacrifice and annul in those to come the effects of sin by having them be born unaware of evil.
No. With a total sacrifice He had to make reparation for Sin and all the sins of all mankind, give the men already dead absolution of sin, and give those living at that time and in the future the means to be helped to resist evil and to be forgiven for the evil which their weakness would lead them to do.

His sacrifice thus had to be such as to present all the necessary requisites, and it could be such only in a God made man: a host worthy of God, a means understood by man. In addition, He was coming to bring the Law.


If His humanity had not existed, how could we—His poor brothers and sisters, who labor to have faith in Him, who lived for thirty-three years on the earth, a Man among men—have believed? And, how could He appear, already an adult, to hostile or ignorant peoples, making them convinced of His nature and His doctrine? He would then have appeared, in the eyes of the world, as a spirit Who had taken on a human likeness, but not as a man who was born and died, shedding real blood through the wounds of a real flesh—as proof of being a man—and rose again and ascended to Heaven with His glorified body—as proof of being God returning to His eternal dwelling.

Isn't it sweeter for us to think that He is really our brother, with the destiny of creatures who are born, live, suffer, and die, than to conceive of Him as a spirit superior to the exigencies of humanity?

It was necessary, then, for a woman to give birth to Him according to the flesh, after having conceived Him above the flesh, for from no marriage of creatures, no matter how holy they were, could the God-Man be conceived, but only from a wedding of Purity and Love, the Spirit and the Virgin, created without stain so as to be the matrix for the flesh of a God, the Virgin the thought of Whom was God's joy, since before time existed, the Virgin in Whom there is a compendium of the Fathers creative perfection, the joy of Heaven, the salvation of the Earth, the most beautiful flower of Creation of all the flowers of the Universe, a living star before whom all the suns created by the Father seem dull.

Blessed is the Pure One, destined for the Lord.
Blessed is the One Desired by the Trinity, which by desire anticipated the instant of fusing Itself with Her in an embrace of three-fold love.
Blessed is the Victorious Woman who crushes the Tempter under the witness of Her immaculate nature.
Blessed is the Virgin Who knows only the Lord's kiss.
Blessed is the Mother Who has become such out of holy obedience to the will of the Most High.
Blessed is the Martyr Who accepts martyrdom out of mercy on all of us.
Blessed is the Redemptrix of woman and of all the children of woman, Who cancels out Eve and is installed in her place to bear the fruit of life where the Enemy has set the seed of death.

Blessed, blessed, thrice blessed for your "yes," O Mother of Jesus, Who have allowed God to keep the promise made to Abraham, the patriarchs, and the prophets, Who have brought relief to Love, oppressed by having to be the punisher and not the savior, Who have released the Earth from the condemnation brought upon it by Eve.

Blessed, blessed, blessed for Your holy humility, for Your inflamed charity, for Your untouched virginity, for Your divine maternity, multiple, sempiternal, true, and spiritual, Mother Who with Your love and with Your pain give birth continuously to children for the Kingdom of Your Jesus.

Generatrix of grace and salvation, generatrix of divine Mercy, generatrix of the universal Church, may You be blessed eternally for what You have done, as You were eternally blessed for what You would do.

Holy, holy, holy Priestess, Who celebrated the first sacrifice and with part of Yourself prepared the Host to be immolated on the altar of the world.

Holy, holy, holy Mother of Jesus, Who did not cause Him to miss Heaven and the Father's breast, for in You He found another paradise not unlike the one in which the Triad performs Its divine works; Mary, Who are the glory of the Father and the Love of the Spirit."
A couple questions: Do you worship Mary? Why do you pray to and praise Mary when Jesus said to pray to "our Father in heaven" in the Lord's Prayer?

Jesus had to be fully human to die as our Substitute on the cross and fully divine to rise from the dead to give us his resurrection power to live for him.
 
L

LuxMundy

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A couple questions: Do you worship Mary? Why do you pray to and praise Mary when Jesus said to pray to "our Father in heaven" in the Lord's Prayer?

If you want to know my answers, please tag me in a new or preexisting thread about Catholics and the Blessed Virgin Mary, and ask me those questions there, to avoid having an off-topic discussion here. Thank you.

Jesus had to be fully human to die as our Substitute on the cross and fully divine to rise from the dead [...]

We're in agreement about that.
 

TrevorHL

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Greetings again asoul,
If you want to know my answers, please tag me in a new or preexisting thread about Catholics and the Blessed Virgin Mary, and ask me those questions there, to avoid having an off-topic discussion here.
But you have raised this strange topic here, in this thread, and the following statement lacks true balance. Mary worship is idolatry.
All paradise blesses Mary, the masterwork of universal Creation and Divine Mercy.

Kind regards
Trevor
 
L

LuxMundy

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Greetings again asoul,

But you have raised this strange topic here, in this thread, and the following statement lacks true balance. Mary worship is idolatry.
asoul said:
All paradise blesses Mary, the masterwork of universal Creation and Divine Mercy.

Kind regards
Trevor

I remind you that the topic of this thread is about why our Redeemer had to be both God and man. If you want to discuss Catholic "idolatry", please tag me in a new or preexisting thread about it, and we can do so there, to avoid having an off-topic discussion here. Thank you.
 
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Bruce-Leiter

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If you want to know my answers, please tag me in a new or preexisting thread about Catholics and the Blessed Virgin Mary, and ask me those questions there, to avoid having an off-topic discussion here. Thank you.



We're in agreement about that.
Well, that's great, fellow Christian!
 

face2face

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Why did our Redeemer need to be both God and Man?

"Blessed are you among all women" (Lk. 1:42)
The true Gospel states clearly the Messiah had to be fully man.
F2F
 

face2face

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Jesus, the Messiah, is fully man (Phil. 2:5-7) and fully divine (Col. 2:9).
Son to servant NOT God to servant.

Nice try, but you don't have the context.

Jesus had the privilege of a Son and he emptied himself of these privileges.

F2F
 

face2face

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1727526133637.png
@asoul what you do with emptied himself is not what is being conveyed. He poured himself out as a son to servant, rather than taking on the authority and power of a firstborn son.
 
L

LuxMundy

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Son to servant NOT God to servant.

Nice try, but you don't have the context.

Jesus had the privilege of a Son and he emptied himself of these privileges.

F2F


View attachment 50324
@asoul what you do with emptied himself is not what is being conveyed. He poured himself out as a son to servant, rather than taking on the authority and power of a firstborn son.

Jesus is the Son of God in the true sense of the words, "today I have generated you" (Ps. 2:7). The verb used in this prophetic verse is the one used to mean natural generation, not a spiritual or symbolic one. All men are sons of God making Him be called Father by men. However, it is a relative sonship which comes from the image and likeness of Him which the Creator wanted His created beings to have, through their soul (spirit) and the gift of Grace, and the finality of man as co-heir of the heavenly kingdom.

Jesus's sonship with the Father is very different. It is absolute and perfect. The eternal Son from the eternal Father as God, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." (Jn. 1:1)

The Son in time, for His redemptive mission, and to give us adoptive sonship with our Father through Grace which re-opens Heaven for us.
The Son in time, "The Word was made flesh, and lived among us, and we saw His glory, the glory of the only Son of the Father." (Jn. 1:14)

Made flesh in the womb of the Virgin through the Holy Spirit which descended on Her, to overshadow the mirror of God without stain, with the power of the Most High so that "The Son of God" who will be called Jesus is conceived and born without the need of man.

The Truth when speaking, says, "My Father is your Father" (Jn. 20:17). Therefore, He identifies two types of sonship, of Man and of men. He says, "The Father and I are one (Jn. 10:30)...I leave the world and return to My Father...Father glorify Me with that glory I had with You before ever the world was born...You are in Me and I am in You." (Jn. 10:30; 16:28; 17:5;17:21)

He says, "No one has risen to Heaven if not He who descended from Heaven; the Son of Man Who is in Heaven...God so loved the world that He gave His only Son...God did not send His Son to condemn he world...Whoever does not believe in the name of the Only Son of God..." (Eph. 4:10, Jn. 3:13;16-18). Jesus says what He has seen with His Father because He came from God...He came from His Father (Jn. 8:42;16:28) and to Caiaphas, "I am the Son of God...You will see the Son of Man seated at the right hand of the Almighty God." (Matt. 26:63-64)

The Father says, "This is my Beloved Son on Whom My Favour rests. I have glorified Him and I will glorify Him again." (Mk. 1:11, Jn. 12:28)

The Holy Spirit says, when investing Peter with the prophetic spirit near Caesarea Philippi, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God" (Matt. 16:16). Again we hear from Peter's lips immediately after Pentecost, "Jesus raised to the right hand of God, His Father, has received from the Father the Holy Spirit, as was promised..." and later, God having raised His Son (Ac. 2:33;3:15) and following.

She Who is Full of Grace says, "let what you have said be done to me." (Lk. 1:38)

Elisabeth, Zechariah and John the Baptist, all filled with the Holy Spirit say, "Why should I be honoured by a visit from the Mother of my Lord?" "Blessed be the Lord...He has raised up for us a powerful Saviour in the house of His servant David as promised by the Prophets...You will go ahead of the Lord to prepare the way for Him...the rising sun has visited us. "This is He who I said, one is coming after me Who ranks before me because He existed before me...I saw the Spirit coming down from Heaven and resting on Him...I have seen and testify that He is the Son of God." (Lk. 1:43;68-79, Jn. 1:29-34)

Also Simeon and Anna, the daughter of Phanuel, testify that He, the Man-God, is "the Holy One of God, Son of the Most High." The demons proclaim it, and after His death, the pagan centurion declares, "This was the Son of God." (Lk. 2:33-38, Mk. 5:7;15:39)

The Father and the Word Incarnate. Not two natures, but only One. Not just One person but Two. Of the same Nature. Different in their personal relationship of generation. One single Being, even if two distinct Persons. Therefore God the Father, just like God the Son, form the One, Only God. As the Father is eternal so the Son is eternal.

Omnipotent, infinite, the Most Perfect, the Generated One just as the Generating One.

The Two with One will, knowledge and power, even though they are reciprocally independent in Their action; willing, knowing and having power, the Word as it wants, knows, and has the Thought which generated it contemplating itself in its Most Perfect Perfections, and understanding Itself, as only God can understand God, and exult in seeing Oneself.

And in this exultation generate the Light, the Life, because They were and would create, multiplying the loving joy of God Who shines through power of diffusing His love on an infinite number of creatures, giving them all His loving care, giving the creatures made in His image and likeness Himself and His Kingdom in order to surround Himself with a people of sons, enlightened in time by the Light so that they can know, serve and love the Lord, gladdened by the eternal enjoyment of the beatific vision of God beyond time.

The Generated Word is not inferior in relationship to the Generating Thought, but is spontaneously obedient out of the holiest Love of the Divine Son to His Father Who has divinely generated Him.

It is Love which makes distinct Persons "A single thing."

Unity in Trinity is through the Holy Spirit, that is the Charity which is the Spirit of the Lord. The Most Holy Spirit of the Most Holy God.

The Son, exulting in the Bosom of the Father, Who exults contemplating His Word and seeing every creature in the Light generated by Him, to Whom He has given His life and every other property, except that of His being Father. This is so that every creature gifted with spirit and reason, can sufficiently know God His Creator through the eternal generation of the Word and His incarnation in time; because all the admirable perfections of God the Father are visible in the Uncreated Word and the Incarnate Word.

In the Most Holy Word, all the unknowable truth of the Heavens and the wonderful story of mankind's destiny are present. Through the Word, mankind can know, recognizing himself made to love and predestined to possess God, He Who is unfathomable, but Who the Light reveals in a favourable way so that man can know Him and save himself by loving Him, and gaining Life through His Love.

The Father is pleased with the willing exultance of the Son, the image of His substance and splendour of His glory, the Maker of all that has been created, Author of the regeneration of mankind to supernatural life.

This reciprocal exultation and giving happiness, The One to The Other, The One in The Other, since the beginning without a beginning, God with God, God in God, is how Love proceeds. He Who, at the right time, gives flesh to the eternal Word, making the Son of the God the Christ, always one with the Father, but no longer One Nature in Two Persons, as in the beginning, but Two Natures in the One Person of the God-Man, true God in the substance of the Father from Whom He is never separated, and true Man by the substance taken from His Mother.
 
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face2face

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Jesus is the Son of God in the true sense of the words, "today I have generated you" (Ps. 2:7). The verb used in this prophetic verse is the one used to mean natural generation, not a spiritual or symbolic one. All men are sons of God making Him be called Father by men. However, it is a relative sonship which comes from the image and likeness of Him which the Creator wanted His created beings to have, through their soul (spirit) and the gift of Grace, and the finality of man as co-heir of the heavenly kingdom.
The image and likeness was developed in Christ, just as it is in us. The only difference between Jesus and us, is his conception was by the Holy Spirit (God's Power) though born of a woman in the line of David after the (sin's) flesh.
Jesus's sonship with the Father is very different. It is absolute and perfect. The eternal Son from the eternal Father as God, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." (Jn. 1:1)
Logos "became" flesh! A spiritual creation Paul styles "New" - John wants you to compare Genesis 1:1 with John 1:1 to see what happened first in the natural, also what took place in the Spiritual. 1 Corinth 15:46

I grow tired of dealing with Nicene dogma's Asoul! Introducing the philosophies of men into the Word, has you out of context and in error!

If you can't speak to me of the Spiritual creation in Christ - him being the firstfruits of them the sleep - you might as well talk to me about your favourite hobby!
The Son in time, for His redemptive mission, and to give us adoptive sonship with our Father through Grace which re-opens Heaven for us.
Wow the ignorance is astounding on that comment -

Christ only entered once into Heaven - only man to ever do so!

he entered once for all into the holy places, not by means of the blood of goats and calves but by means of his own blood, thus securing an eternal redemption. Hebrews 9:12

The Son in time, "The Word was made flesh, and lived among us, and we saw His glory , the glory of the only Son of the Father." (Jn. 1:14)

Correct - Logos created flesh which "became" eternal / divine

Made flesh in the womb of the Virgin through the Holy Spirit which descended on Her, to overshadow the mirror of God without stain, with the power of the Most High so that "The Son of God" who will be called Jesus is conceived and born without the need of man.

The Truth when speaking, says, "My Father is your Father" (Jn. 20:17). Therefore, He identifies two types of sonship, of Man and of men. He says, "The Father and I are one (Jn. 10:30)...I leave the world and return to My Father...Father glorify Me with that glory I had with You before ever the world was born...You are in Me and I am in You." (Jn. 10:30; 16:28; 17:5;17:21)

He says, "No one has risen to Heaven if not He who descended from Heaven; the Son of Man Who is in Heaven...God so loved the world that He gave His only Son...God did not send His Son to condemn he world...Whoever does not believe in the name of the Only Son of God..." (Eph. 4:10, Jn. 3:16-18). Jesus says what He has seen with His Father because He came from God...He came from His Father (Jn. 8:42;16:28) and to Caiaphas, "I am the Son of God...You will see the Son of Man seated at the right hand of the Almighty God." (Matt. 26:63-64)

No, God sent forth his Word (Logos) and by the Holy Spirit gave conception in Mary! The Son of Man was NOT in Heaven - impossible...I think all forum members would fiercly refute Christ in Flesh was in Heaven with God prior to his conception.

The issue for you is one of understanding how God uses His Logos. Study this and you will be led to truth.

The Father says, "This is my Beloved Son on Whom My Favour rests. I have glorified Him and I will glorify Him again" (Mk. 1:11, Jn. 12:28)

God cannot be glorified! He is the Glorifier of Christ who did not have Glory previously - again its impossible for God to reward Christ with that which he already has!

His name
His throne in heaven
His Exalted position
His inheritence

All of this was not his until he died and was raised!

The Holy Spirit says, when investing Peter with the prophetic spirit near Caesarea Philippi, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God" (Matt. 16:16). Again we hear from Peter's lips immediately after Pentecost, "Jesus raised to the right hand of God, His Father, has received from the Father the Holy Spirit, as was promised..." and later, God having raised His Son (Ac. 2:33;3:15) and following.
Correct
She Who is Full of Grace says, "let what you have said be done to me." (Lk. 1:38)
Elisabeth, Zechariah and John the Baptist, all filled with the Holy Spirit say, "Why should I be honoured by a visit from the Mother of my Lord?" "Blessed be the Lord...He has raised up for us a powerful Saviour in the house of His servant David as promised by the Prophets...You will go ahead of the Lord to prepare the way for Him...the rising sun has visited us. "This is He who I said, one is coming after me Who ranks before me because He existed before me...I saw the Spirit coming down from Heaven and resting on Him...I have seen and testify that He is the Son of God." (Lk. 1:43;68-79, Jn. 1:29-34)

They understood the promised son would come from the seed of the woman - not unlike the type of Abraham & Sarah having a promised son, Isaac.

Nowhere in Scripture is it said God would come down as a baby child, grow in wisdom and stature and die for His People....ridiculous teaching!

Also Simeon and Anna, the daughter of Phanuel, testify that He, the Man-God,

I've come to laugh when beilevers use this term! It's such an idolatrous term!

It's like you are saying to me "I have create a god in my own image after my own liking",

For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the MAN Christ Jesus, 1 Tim 2:5

The Nicene creed change this verse! Can you see how you have adopted error and are now against the Apostles?

Your copy and pasting goes on for a bit and it just bores me to honest.

When you have studied the Word of God for yourself and you want to have a discussion on the His Word and not Creeds, let me know.

PM me.... but if you can't speak according to this Word there is no light in you

F2F
 
L

LuxMundy

Guest
The image and likeness was developed in Christ, just as it is in us. The only difference between Jesus and us, is his conception was by the Holy Spirit (God's Power) though born of a woman in the line of David after the (sin's) flesh.

The difference I was talking about between us and Jesus is sonship. Again, Jesus's sonship with the Father is very different. It is absolute and perfect. The eternal Son from the eternal Father as God, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God" (Jn. 1:1). In other words, pre-incarnate Jesus was the Word, and then "The Word was made flesh, and lived among us, and we saw His glory, the glory of the only Son of the Father." (Jn. 1:14)

Wow the ignorance is astounding on that comment -

Christ only entered once into Heaven - only man to ever do so!

he entered once for all into the holy places, not by means of the blood of goats and calves but by means of his own blood, thus securing an eternal redemption. Hebrews 9:12

I didn't say that Jesus wasn't the first man to enter Heaven, but rather said that Jesus re-opened Heaven (when He entered it as the first man), because up until then it had been closed to humanity since the disobedience of Eve and Adam.

Logos created flesh which "became" eternal / divine

The Word was already eternal and divine before the Word Incarnated Himself: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." (Jn. 1:1)

No, God sent forth his Word (Logos) and by the Holy Spirit gave conception in Mary! The Son of Man was NOT in Heaven - impossible...I think all forum members would fiercly refute Christ in Flesh was in Heaven with God prior to his conception

I didn't say that the Father didn't send His Word, nor that Mary didn't conceive by the Holy Spirit.

I don't know why you deny that the Son of Man is in Heaven when, again, Jn. 3:13 says, "No one has ascended into heaven but he who descended out of heaven, the Son of Man, who is in heaven."

Jesus is the Word Incarnate (Jn. 1:14), the same Word identified as being with God and as God in Jn. 1:1, and thus He's the "Son of God."

God cannot be glorified! He is the Glorifier of Christ who did not have Glory previously - again its impossible for God to reward Christ with that which he already has!

His name
His throne in heaven
His Exalted position
His inheritence

All of this was not his until he died and was raised!

"Father, glorify thy name. A voice therefore came from heaven: I have both glorified it, and will glorify it again." (Jn. 12:28)

They understood the promised son would come from the seed of the woman - not unlike the type of Abraham & Sarah having a promised son, Isaac.

Nowhere in Scripture is it said God would come down as a baby child, grow in wisdom and stature and die for His People....ridiculous teaching!
I've come to laugh when beilevers use this term! It's such an idolatrous term!

It's like you are saying to me "I have create a god in my own image after my own liking",

For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the MAN Christ Jesus, 1 Tim 2:5

The Messiah was born of the Virgin woman as prophesied (Is. 7:14), just as it was that He would be God (Is. 9:6, Mal. 3:1), hence His title "Man-God."

Your copy and pasting goes on for a bit and it just bores me to honest.

It seems you wouldn't like Jesus's discourses in full then, because they aren't just a few sentences or a couple paragraphs long.
 
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RedFan

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I didn't say that Jesus wasn't the first man to enter Heaven, but rather said that Jesus re-opened Heaven (when He entered it as the first man) because up until then it had been closed to humanity since the disobedience of Eve and Adam.
This raises an interesting question: Where, if not in heaven, were Abraham, Isaac and Jacob before Jesus "re-opened" heaven? I recall the account of Jesus saying they weren't dead. Matt. 22:32, Mark 12:26.