Why are some interpreters not being honest with the text involving Daniel 9:27?

[Eternally Grateful]

Sorry I asked.

The palestinian covenant does not appear in the New Covenant.

The palestinian covenant is therefore null and void under the jurisprudence governing wills and testaments.

1. I never said it was
2. It was an eternal covenant, The new did not replace it. Because it never had anything to do with the eternal salvation of any person who ever lived. (But thanks once again for proving you believe in replacement theology)

When you get that fact in your brain. You may realise your mistake.

 

[Davidpt]

Messiah the prince had already come

lol.. They did not confirm anything

Jesus confirmed (at most) the new covenant with his blood in one night.

Stick to the topic at hand, and don't go astray

Maybe 'strengthen' fits the context better than 'confirm'? And if so I don't see it making sense of the text that the AC strengthens the covenant with many for one week. Something else we need to factor in here, assuming 'confirm' might fit better instead. The text says this---And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week

The text does not say he does that for a half of a week. It says he does that for the entire week. How can he then do that for the entire week if in the middle of the week he breaks the covenant, thus no longer confirming it with many for one week since this equals only confirming it with many for a half of a week? I don't get the logic you are applying here? How someone can confirm something with many for 7 years, then 3.5 years into it they quit confirming it by breaking it, but that this somehow still equals them confirming it for the entire 7 years?

 

[covenantee]

1. I never said it was
2. It was an eternal covenant, The new did not replace it. Because it never had anything to do with the eternal salvation of any person who ever lived. (But thanks once again for proving you believe in replacement theology)

When you get that fact in your brain. You may realise your mistake.

Hebrews 8
6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

What covenant was it better than?

What promises was it better than?

What does the better covenant established upon better promises replace?

 

[TribulationSigns]

But that is not what Daniel 9 is about. Its not about us (unless you are a physical jew)

This is a problem. You insisted that Daniel 9 is all about Jews and Physical City Jersualem whether you are Preterist or Premillennialist, or even some amillennialists. But God has something else in mind. Granted not everyone will understand what God talked about just like the Jews thought Christ was talking about a physical temple, for example. Same carnal blindness.

I won't bother responding to the rest of your nonsense since I have already explained what Scripture says. So I will move on. :-)

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

You lost 3.5 years nice.

What are you talking about? I'm afraid you are in over your head here.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Daniel 9;4 . Read the whole chapter 5 times and you might understand the prophecy but I doubt it. What spirit do you follow?

Daniel 9:4 is not speaking of any particular covenant like Daniel 9:27 is. I understand what the prophecy is about. You clearly do not. I follow the Holy Spirit. How about you? It seems that you follow your own imagination.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Yes you deny that Daniel 12:1 & Matthew 24:21 are the same future event in the "Great Tribulation", your living in denial of biblical truth before your eyes

I don't deny that Jesus answered the disciples' first question which had to do with the timing of the destruction of the temple buildings. Of course He did. It's completely nonsense to claim otherwise. And I believe He answered it in Matthew 24:15-21.

(Future Great Tribulation, Second Coming, And Resurrection)

Daniel 12:1-2KJV
1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

(Future Great Tribulation, Second Coming, And Resurrection)

Matthew 24:15 & 29-31KJV
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

There's no reason to take you seriously when you don't even acknowledge the following is talking about the physical temple buildings that were standing at the time Jesus was speaking:

Matthew 24:1 Jesus left the temple and was walking away when his disciples came up to him to call his attention to its buildings. 2 “Do you see all these things?” he asked. “Truly I tell you, not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down.”

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

The church did not replace Israel

the nation of Israel were given a special covenant, eternal and binding, because it was an (I will covenant)

that covenant was not broken, It is not completed. and the church has no part in that covenant.

You need to read the New Testament. It repeatedly shows how Gentile believers were included in the covenants that God made with Israel.

Ephesians 3:1 For this reason I, Paul, the prisoner of Christ Jesus for the sake of you Gentiles—2 Surely you have heard about the administration of God’s grace that was given to me for you, 3 that is, the mystery made known to me by revelation, as I have already written briefly. 4 In reading this, then, you will be able to understand my insight into the mystery of Christ, 5 which was not made known to people in other generations as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to God’s holy apostles and prophets. 6 This mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members together of one body, and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus.

Why are things still a mystery to you that have been revealed in the New Testament? If you would just read the New Testament then you would understand that God does not have separate plans for Israel and for the church but rather has one plan for all of His people together as one regardless of whether they are Jew or Gentile.

 

[Phoneman777]

Your antisemetism has you blind so you can not see the little picture my friend.

>I worship an ISRAELITE Savior
>I hold as paramount a book authored by many ISRAELITES.
>I esteem as irrefutable truth the testimony of many ISRAELITES.
>I'm extremely proud and blessed to be part of the "ISRAEL OF GOD" - the church.

As you can see, I'm not "anti-semetic" at all. I'm "anti-Khazar".

Dan 9 is not about the saving of the world. it is about a nation that was being punished because of her sins, A man called Daniel who tried to intercede for those people. and beg for Gods mercy for those people

Really? Daniel 9 is about the arrival of "Messiah the Prince" - y'know, the SAVIOR of the WORLD.

you still have not read the first part of Daniel it seems. so your blindess will continue

I'm not blind just because I don't see gaps that aren't there.

Please show me where it says this in Dan 9..

Are you so blind that you can't follow the last 7 years on the prophetic timeline which shows the 3 1/2 year ministry of Jesus, then the 3 1/2 years of "go not the way of the Gentiles, but first go to the lost sheep of the house of Israel"?

lol. Yet he did that very thing while he walked the earth.. lol

Are you so blind you can't see the difference between an ancient temple sacrifice which pointed to a coming Messiah and a modern temple sacrifice which denies He came?

Get real my friend.. Your eschatology is just as faulty as yuor legalistic gospel.

Your Jesuit Futurism is as faulty as your OSAS License to Sin theology, friend.

No, It says he wqill rule in Jerusalem

Yes, after the 1,000 years, when the wicked are raised and annihilated, and the New Heaven and New Earth are made - then will He reign in Jerusalem - NEW JERUSALEM.

But thank you. You are proving my point about replacement theology

Whoever doesn't "walk by this rule" of the "new creature in Christ" is not Israel.

Zech 14: 16 And it shall come to pass that everyone who is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the Feast of Tabernacles. 17 And it shall be that whichever of the families of the earth do not come up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, on them there will be no rain.

Prophecy is conditional, my friend, a fact that Jesuit Futurists seem unable to accept.
Did Jonah's prophecy come true?
Neither will the prophecy of Zechariah.

Nonsense is still nonsense. no matter how many times you read it or how slow. it is still nonsense

If you know that, why do you still insist on a "gap"? You wouldn't add a "gap" between 12:59 and 1:00 to increase your lunch hour, yet you'll add 2,000+ years between the 69th and 70th Week?

Jesus confirmed his covenant in 1 day

"..and He shall confirm the covenant with many for one week".
"...blood of the New Covenant which is shed for many..."

Of course, because he did not confirm any covenant for 1 week..

Did you miss the part about "...He shall confirm the covenant with many for one week"?

Says the antisemite

Then Paul is an antisemite for rightly idenfiying the church as the "Israel of God" as I do.

IT DOES NOT SAY IT WILL TAKE 7 YEARS. IT SAYS THE COVENANT IS CONFIRMED FOR 7 YEARS.. DO YOU KNOW HOW TO READ ENGLISH????

Lets interpret for you.
1. It does not say it will take seven years. as you are claiming
2. It says, And he shall confirm a covenant FOR (the length) 7 Years
3. Again, I ask, do you know how to read english? I am worried you have a problem with that

"...He shall confirm the covenant with many for one week" means just that: a period of time lasting 7 years where the process of confirming the covenant commences in the beginning of the 7 years and ends after 7 years.

Thats not the purpose of Daniel 9. Never has been, and never will be

The purpose of Daniel 9 was to explain what Daniel didn't understand about the vision of Daniel 8, which wasn't the MP ram, the Greek he goat, the four horn Greek kingdoms - he knew all that. What he didn't know was what the Little Horn was nor how there could be 2300 more years of the sanctuary being trodden underfoot...so God sent Gabriel to explain it to him by, according to Gabriel's own words, the 70 Weeks prophecy: "...therefore, understand the matter and consider the (Daniel 8) vision...Seventy Weeks are determined..."

Nor is it the purpose of a 7 year covenant made by a prince who is yet to come

"This is the blood of the New Covenant which is shed for many..."
"I will give Thee for a Covenant to the people, and for a light to the Gentiles."
"...come to His temple, even the Messenger of the Covenant, Whom ye delight in: behold, He shall come..."
"And He shall confirm the covenant with many for one week."

Only "Messiah the Prince" can do this - Job says the "prince of darkness" makes covenants with no one.

lol. God made a covenant with a nation who comes from Abraham Isaac and Jacob. That covenant is said to be an eternal covenent, and unlike most covenants, is not a duel covenent, God said i will. Unlike the mosaic, He did not say, if you do this, i will do that.
What is sad is many professing christians who claim God does not keep his promises.

So what? Is not the church "Abraham's seed" of which we are who belong to Christ?

Why do you guys insist people who hate Christ belong to Christ?

Then again, I know you reject eternal security. So your belief in the inability of God to keep an eternal promise is well documented and understood.

Obedience is merely the outward evidence that inward salvation has been obtained by grace through faith.

The OSAS License to Sin attempts to hide what a lack of obedience evidences: a soul in rebellion to God.

I am not a semite fan. I just believe God keeps his promises.

Prophecy is conditional. The kingdom has been taken from them and given to the church - forever.

Romans 11 doesn't provide for a return to national Israeli greatness, but individual salvational privilege.

Now your out there. Your time line does not even add up

The prophetic timeline only fails to line up with your Jesuit Futurism - it lines up perfectly with Protestant Historicism.

 

[covenantee]

thats great,, And I am part of that covenant.

But we are discussing the covenant of Dan 9 confirmed for 1 week by a future prince who is to co9me

Can you please stick to the discussion

John Calvin

Daniel 9:27
Christ took upon him the character of a leader, or assumed the kingly office, when he promulgated the grace of God. This is the confirmation of the covenant of which the angel now speaks...
Thus God's covenant is established with us...

Whom to believe?
1. You
2. Acclaimed historical defender of the true faith John Calvin

Need a hint?

 

[Douggg]

John Calvin

Daniel 9:27
Christ took upon him the character of a leader, or assumed the kingly office, when he promulgated the grace of God. This is the confirmation of the covenant of which the angel now speaks...
Thus God's covenant is established with us...

Whom to believe?
1. You
2. Acclaimed historical defender of the true faith John Calvin

Need a hint?

covenantree, what you will find among modern day futurists is that the Daniel 9:27 confirming of the covenant with many for 7 years will be some sort of peace treaty involving Israel.

While John Calvin was wrong in his understanding about the confirming of the covenant for 7 years, so too are most modern day futurists.

The confirming of the covenant for 7 years is referring to a requirement that Moses made back in Deuteronomy 31:9-13 of all future leaders of Israel as long as the children of Israel were in the land of Israel. It is a confirming of the Mt. Sinai covenant.

The confirming process is that the leader make a big speech to the nation of Israel that God gave the land of Israel to the children of Israel as theirs forever. The big speech to the nation, Moses required to be on a 7 years cycle and also be in the feast of tabernacles.

The speech will be done by the prince that shall come, who the Jews will think (for a while) that he is their long awaited messiah. Only to turn out to be the Antichrist.

 

[Truth7t7]

I don't deny that Jesus answered the disciples' first question which had to do with the timing of the destruction of the temple buildings. Of course He did. It's completely nonsense to claim otherwise. And I believe He answered it in Matthew 24:15-21.


There's no reason to take you seriously when you don't even acknowledge the following is talking about the physical temple buildings that were standing at the time Jesus was speaking:

Matthew 24:1 Jesus left the temple and was walking away when his disciples came up to him to call his attention to its buildings. 2 “Do you see all these things?” he asked. “Truly I tell you, not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down.”

Diversion & Distraction

The words below deal with the greatest "Triblation" the world will ever see, and has absolutely no mention of a 70AD temple

Yes you deny that Daniel 12:1 & Matthew 24:21 are the same future event in the "Great Tribulation", your living in denial of biblical truth before your eyes

(Future Great Tribulation, Second Coming, And Resurrection)

Daniel 12:1-2KJV
1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

(Future Great Tribulation, Second Coming, And Resurrection)

Matthew 24:15 & 29-31KJV
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

 

[covenantee]

covenantree, what you will find among modern day futurists is that the Daniel 9:27 confirming of the covenant with many for 7 years will be some sort of peace treaty involving Israel.

While John Calvin was wrong in his understanding about the confirming of the covenant for 7 years, so too are most modern day futurists.

The confirming of the covenant for 7 years is referring to a requirement that Moses made back in Deuteronomy 31:9-13 of all future leaders of Israel as long as the children of Israel were in the land of Israel. It is a confirming of the Mt. Sinai covenant.

The confirming process is that the leader make a big speech to the nation of Israel that God gave the land of Israel to the children of Israel as theirs forever. The big speech to the nation, Moses required to be on a 7 years cycle and also be in the feast of tabernacles.

The speech will be done by the prince that shall come, who the Jews will think (for a while) that he is their long awaited messiah. Only to turn out to be the Antichrist.

View attachment 45899

Douggg, John Calvin was consistent with 17 centuries of the true Christian Church.

He and it were right.

As was acclaimed historical defender of the true faith Matthew Henry.

Daniel 9:24-27
The seventy weeks mean a day for a year, or 490 years. About the end of this period a sacrifice would be offered, making full atonement for sin, and bringing in everlasting righteousness for the complete justification of every believer. Then the Jews, in the crucifixion of Jesus, would commit that crime by which the measure of their guilt would be filled up, and troubles would come upon their nation. All blessings bestowed on sinful man come through Christ's atoning sacrifice, who suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God. Here is our way of access to the throne of grace, and of our entrance to heaven. This seals the sum of prophecy, and confirms the covenant with many; and while we rejoice in the blessings of salvation, we should remember what they cost the Redeemer. How can those escape who neglect so great salvation!

 

[covenantee]

Diversion & Distraction

The words below deal with the greatest "Triblation" the world will ever see, and has absolutely no mention of a 70AD temple

Yes you deny that Daniel 12:1 & Matthew 24:21 are the same future event in the "Great Tribulation", your living in denial of biblical truth before your eyes

(Future Great Tribulation, Second Coming, And Resurrection)

Daniel 12:1-2KJV
1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

(Future Great Tribulation, Second Coming, And Resurrection)

Matthew 24:15 & 29-31KJV
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Hey, what about Matthew 24:16 and those Judaeans who fled?

 

[Truth7t7]

Hey, what about Matthew 24:16 and those Judaeans who fled?

Modern day Judaeans are those living in Jerusalem, and they will flee in the masses, could that be in the very near future?

It's my belief that the Jews are going to try grabbing the Muslims holy site in the Al-Aqsa Mosque in Jerusalem to build their Jewish Temple on the dome of the rock, this will ignite World War III as Jerusalem is surrounded by future armies, time will tell?

 

[Truth7t7]

Protestant Historicism.

Correction: Protestant Historicism in 70AD Fulfillment Is "Jesuit Preterism", And It's Father Is Jesuit "Luis Del Alcasar" (1554-1613)

Alcasar is known for his Vestigatio arcani sensus in Apocalypsi (1614) published after his death, putting forward what would later be called a preterist view of Biblical prophecy

 

[wooddog]

Daniel 9:4 is not speaking of any particular covenant like Daniel 9:27 is. I understand what the prophecy is about. You clearly do not. I follow the Holy Spirit. How about you? It seems that you follow your own imagination.

Daniel 9;27 is the answer to Daniel's 9;4 prayer. What you read into it is your imagination and an interpretation only you can understand. The Spirit I follow is in John 14;17. Gabriel never said "NEW" covenant,

 

[wooddog]

You lost 3.5 years nice.

What are you talking about? I'm afraid you are in over your head here.

There's no gap in the 70th week. I'm not going to speak for him, but in my view the new covenant is eternal and it took one week/7 years (the 70th week) to confirm it. Once it was confirmed then the 70th week was over. No gap. The confirming of the covenant consisted of Christ's ministry, His death and resurrection and then the preaching of the gospel of Christ to Israel before it started going out to the Gentile nations. Very simple. But, let me know if you still don't understand.

Christ's ministry and death was 3.5 years. You say there is no gap and the preaching of the gospel is ongoing until when? UNtil the 42 months of the false messiah? The end of time? The lake of fire? You are right this caveman does not understand this at all. Inserting the new covenant is vanity when Gabriel does not speak of or imply of one.

 

[Truth7t7]

Christ's ministry and death was 3.5 years. You say there is no gap and the preaching of the gospel is ongoing until when? UNtil the 42 months of the false messiah? The end of time? The lake of fire? You are right this caveman does not understand this at all. Inserting the new covenant is vanity when Gabriel does not speak of or imply of one.

Their main goal as "Preterist" is to claim 70AD Roman armies fulfilled the Olivet discourse in Matthew 24, going so far as to suggest that a 1900+ year gap is seen between Luke 21:24-25 below

Spiritual Israelite goes so far as to claim 70AD was the great tribulation, then claims another great tribulation is future

You're not properly differentiating between the two events (one local or regional event in 70 AD and one global event in the future).

(There isn't "Two Events") in a (70AD Event) and a (Future Global Event) seen below, that's 100% false bogus malarkey!

"The events seen below are all future", there's no 1900+ year gap seen below, its nothing more than mans pride in trying to keep a false teaching alive

Luke 21:20-27KJV
20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.
22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.
24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

There's No 1900+ Year Gap Seen Here Between Verses 24 & 25, your pride has you blinded, as you cling to your false teaching in 70AD fulfillment

25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.

 

[Phoneman777]

Correction: Protestant Historicism in 70AD Fulfillment Is "Jesuit Preterism", And It's Father Is Jesuit "Luis Del Alcasar" (1554-1613)

Alcasar is known for his Vestigatio arcani sensus in Apocalypsi (1614) published after his death, putting forward what would later be called a preterist view of Biblical prophecy

I think you're a bit off.

Jesuit Preterism (incorrectly) says Antichrist arose in the 1st century - Nero or some evil equivalent.

Protestant Historicism correctly says the papal Antichrist arose in the 6th century:

• right on time according to the prophetic timeline
• after Rome fell in 476 A.D.
• when the Pagan Roman Restrainer was "taken out of the way" - according to Paul and the ECFs
• among the Ten Horns which arose out of the ashes of Pagan Rome