Why are some interpreters not being honest with the text involving Daniel 9:27?

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Truth7t7

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The two witnesses will be preaching will be preaching the gospel right up to their death right front of the little prince on the HOLY place. The jews will reject the new covenant until they see MESSIAH THE PRINCE coming in the clouds, then they will repent and believe. This is what I believe.
I agree the two witnesses will be literal prophets returned, they will bring literal plagues on this earth, and will have power for 1260 days, a complete replay of Moses/Aaron against pharaoh in Egypt

I believe the two prophets returned will be Enoch/Elijah who never experienced a physical death, they will be killed by the beast, lay dead in Jerusalems streets, and be raised to heaven before a watching world, as the finals hours of this earth's existence unfolds, as Jesus returns in fire and final judgement (The End)
 

jeffweeder

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Exactly. There is no indication whatsoever that what is described in verses 34-36 happens at the same time as what is described in verses 21-24. In between the two great tribulation events is what Jesus called "the times of the Gentiles" which people like Truth7t7 are completely ignoring.
Yes,
I would say the "wrath to this people" never really stopped. It been one long great tribulation for them since 70AD.
 
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covenantee

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"The events seen below are all future", there's no 1900+ year gap seen below, its nothing more than mans pride in trying to keep a false teaching alive

Spiritual Israelite False Teaching In A 70AD "Great Tribulation" Seen Verses 20-24

Luke 21:20-27KJV
20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.
22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.
24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

There's No 1900+ Year Gap Seen Here Between Verses 24 & 25, your pride has you blinded, as you cling to your false teaching in 70AD fulfillment

Spiritual Israelite False Teaching In A Future "Great Tribulation" 1900+ Year Gap Verses 25-27)


25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
We see that you've re-included Luke 21:21, which refers to the flight of the Judaeans. Good for you.

That happened more than 1900 years ago, prior to 70 AD.

Not in the future.

Remember, if they'd listened to dispensational futurists, they'd have been dead.

But they instead listened to Jesus, and fled, and survived.
 
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Truth7t7

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So you believe Jesus overlooked the events of AD 70 and was prophesying of another more distant repeat event.? :confused:
Jesus didn't prophesy of a 70AD event, as you have clearly been shown many times in John 2:19-22 below, the temple to be destroyed was the Lord's Body, not a temple of stone that took 46 years to build

John 2:19-22KJV
19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
21 But he spake of the temple of his body.
22 When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said.

The great tribulation seen in Matthew 24:21 is "Future" and Jesus returns immediately after this future great tribulation as seen below

The great tribulation and second coming of Jesus Christ are future events unfulfilled

Matthew 24:21 & 29-31KJV
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
 

Truth7t7

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Yes,
I would say the "wrath to this people" never really stopped. It been one long great tribulation for them since 70AD.
God's word speaks of a great tribulation that has never been seen or will be, World War II silences your claims of 70AD, the future tribulation mentioned will be worse, your eschatology has more holes in it than Swiss Cheese

(Future Great Tribulation, Second Coming, And Resurrection)

Daniel 12:1-2KJV
1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

(Future Great Tribulation, Second Coming, And Resurrection)


Matthew 24:15 & 29-31KJV
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
 

Truth7t7

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Are you saying you don't believe anything of any significance involving great tribulation of any kind happened in 70 AD? Are you saying that you believe Jerusalem and its temple buildings were not destroyed in 70 AD? Because that is one of the great tribulation events that I'm talking about. You're saying you think that's fake and didn't really happen?
The temple to be destroyed was the Lord's body as you have been shown several times, "The Great Tribulation" seen in Matthew 24:15 & Daniel 12:1 is a "Future" event unfulfilled as you have been shown several times

70AD fulfillment of the Olivet Discourse is a lie
 

Spiritual Israelite

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The temple to be destroyed was the Lord's body as you have been shown several times, "The Great Tribulation" seen in Matthew 24:15 & Daniel 12:1 is a "Future" event unfulfilled as you have been shown several times
I've addressed those passage several times. You disagree with my interpretations, but at least I've addressed them. I've asked you to address the following passage many times and you never have. Can you do so now? It would only be fair since I have addressed the passages you brought up.

Matthew 24:1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

When Jesus referenced "the temple" here, what do you think He was referencing? When He referenced "the buildings of the temple", what do you think He was referencing? When Jesus responded to the disciples showing Him "the buildings of the temple" by saying "See ye not all these things" after which He said they would be destroyed, what things was Jesus talking about?

Feel free to look at the following parallel passage if you need help answering those questions:

Mark 13:1 And as he went out of the temple, one of his disciples saith unto him, Master, see what manner of stones and what buildings are here! 2 And Jesus answering said unto him, Seest thou these great buildings? there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

Was Jesus referring to His body as "these great buildings"?

70AD fulfillment of the Olivet Discourse is a lie
What does this even mean? I'm not saying all of the Olivet Discourse was fulfilled in 70 AD, yet this comes across as if you're accusing me of saying the entire Olivet Discourse was fulfilled in 70 AD. You know I don't believe that. Most of it is not about what happened in 70 AD.
 

Truth7t7

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So, the times of the Gentiles never exists in your mind? Your view seems to completely disregard "the times of the Gentiles" that would follow the tribulation that is described in Luke 21:20-24a.
The time of the gentiles is future, and it will correspond with the (Two Witnesses) you you reject as being literal prophets returned, as you also remove this literal future event through symbolic allegory, correct me if I'm wrong, smiles!

Revelation 11:1-15KJV
1 And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.
2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.
3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.
6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.
7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.
10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.
11 And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.
14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
 

Truth7t7

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I've addressed those passage several times. You disagree with my interpretations, but at least I've addressed them. I've asked you to address the following passage many times and you never have. Can you do so now? It would only be fair since I have addressed the passages you brought up.

Matthew 24:1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

When Jesus referenced "the temple" here, what do you think He was referencing? When He referenced "the buildings of the temple", what do you think He was referencing? When Jesus responded to the disciples showing Him "the buildings of the temple" by saying "See ye not all these things" after which He said they would be destroyed, what things was Jesus talking about?

Feel free to look at the following parallel passage if you need help answering those questions:

Mark 13:1 And as he went out of the temple, one of his disciples saith unto him, Master, see what manner of stones and what buildings are here! 2 And Jesus answering said unto him, Seest thou these great buildings? there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.


What does this even mean? I'm not saying all of the Olivet Discourse was fulfilled in 70 AD, yet this comes across as if you're accusing me of saying the entire Olivet Discourse was fulfilled in 70 AD. You know I don't believe that. Most of it is not about what happened in 70 AD.
Every question you present has been answered several times, you have been presented biblical truth several times and you deny it, it's that simple

1. Jesus spoke of the temple of his body, not a temple of stone that was destroyed in 70AD Jerusalem, John 2:19-22

2. You falsely claim there are two "Great Tribulations" you have been shown several times that Matthew 24:21 & Daniel 12:1 are the same event, Luke 21 and Mark 13 are nothing more than repeating the same
 

Spiritual Israelite

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The time of the gentiles is future, and it will correspond with the (Two Witnesses) you you reject as being literal prophets returned, as you also remove this literal future event through symbolic allegory, correct me if I'm wrong, smiles!
Wrong.

Luke 21:24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

The times of the Gentiles refers to the time during which the Gentiles would trample upon Jerusalem. The time during which they would no longer have a temple after it was destroyed. Guess what? Their temple was destroyed in 70 AD. So, the times of the Gentiles has been ongoing ever since. And they still have no temple there.

Revelation 11:1-15KJV
1 And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.
2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.
3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.
6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.
7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.
10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.
11 And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.
14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
This does not have the same context as Luke 21:20-24. This is referring to the heavenly Jerusalem, not earthly Jerusalem. Elsewhere in Revelation, the holy city refers to the heavenly new Jerusalem. Also, the result of Luke 21:20-24 is the desolation of earthly Jerusalem and its temple. In the above passage the temple being referenced is not destroyed. So, once again, you have missed the context of scripture. Once again, you are trying to relate two passages that are not directly related.
 

Truth7t7

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We see that you've re-included Luke 21:21, which refers to the flight of the Judaeans. Good for you.

That happened more than 1900 years ago, prior to 70 AD.

Not in the future.

Remember, if they'd listened to dispensational futurists, they'd have been dead.

But they instead listened to Jesus, and fled, and survived.
Thus Sayeth "Flavius Josephus" AKA "Yosef ben Matityahu", Big Smiles!
 

Spiritual Israelite

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Every question you present has been answered several times, you have been presented biblical truth several times and you deny it, it's that simple
Stop lying. You have never answered the questions I asked about Matthew 24:1-2. Are you afraid to do so? Do you believe "the buildings of the temple" are a reference to Jesus's body?
 

Spiritual Israelite

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Thus Sayeth "Flavius Josephus" AKA "Yosef ben Matityahu", Big Smiles!
So, it appears that you don't believe that Jerusalem and its temple were destroyed in 70 AD. Is that correct? If so, then when do you think that happened? Clearly, it did happen at some point since the temple is no longer there.
 

Truth7t7

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Wrong.

Luke 21:24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

The times of the Gentiles refers to the time during which the Gentiles would trample upon Jerusalem. The time during which they would no longer have a temple after it was destroyed. Guess what? Their temple was destroyed in 70 AD. So, the times of the Gentiles has been ongoing ever since. And they still have no temple there.


This does not have the same context as Luke 21:20-24. This is referring to the heavenly Jerusalem, not earthly Jerusalem. Elsewhere in Revelation, the holy city refers to the heavenly new Jerusalem. Also, the result of Luke 21:20-24 is the desolation of earthly Jerusalem and its temple. In the above passage the temple being referenced is not destroyed. So, once again, you have missed the context of scripture. Once again, you are trying to relate two passages that are not directly related.
The gentiles aren't trampling/treading New Jerusalem below for 42 months, "Laughable"!

Revelation Chapter 11 shows a literal Jerusalem being trampled, and literal (Two Witnesses) that bring literal plagues upon this earth, that literally die and their dead bodies lay in a literal street in Jerusalem, where a literal world watches in celebration

Please give your interpretation of the (Two Witnesses) below, the suspense is killing me!

Revelation 11:1-15KJV
1 And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.
2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.
3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.
6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.
7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.
10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.
11 And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.
14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
 

Truth7t7

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So, it appears that you don't believe that Jerusalem and its temple were destroyed in 70 AD. Is that correct? If so, then when do you think that happened? Clearly, it did happen at some point since the temple is no longer there.
Once Again, Posted For The 50th+ Time In Eschatology

Yes the Jerusalem temple was destroyed in 70AD, however the Lord spoke of the temple of his body being destroyed, yes the temple to be destroyed was the Lord's Body, not a temple of stone that took 46 years to build in Jerusalem

John 2:19-22KJV
19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
21 But he spake of the temple of his body.
22 When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said.
 
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covenantee

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Please give a historical account of Christians fleeing Jerusalem in 70AD, waiting?
The people of the Church in Jerusalem were commanded by an oracle given by revelation before the war to those in the city who were worthy of it to depart and dwell in one of the cities of Perea which they called Pella. To it those who believed on Christ traveled from Jerusalem, so that when holy men had altogether deserted the royal capital of the Jews and the whole land of Judaea…”
— Eusebius, Church History 3, 5, 3
This heresy of the Nazoraeans exists in Beroea in the neighbourhood of Coele Syria and the Decapolis in the region of Pella and in Basanitis in the so-called Kokaba(Chochabe in Hebrew). From there it took its beginning after the exodus from Jerusalem when all the disciples went to live in Pella because Christ had told them to leave Jerusalem and to go away since it would undergo a siege. Because of this advice they lived in Perea after having moved to that place, as I said.”
— Epiphanius, Panarion 29,7,7-8
 
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Spiritual Israelite

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The gentiles aren't trampling/treading New Jerusalem below for 42 months, "Laughable"!
Almost everything you say is laughable. No other amillennialist in the world is wrong about things as much as you are. It's a symbolic reference to unbelievers outside the temple of God/church persecuting those who are in the temple of God/church. You need to ask God for wisdom because you are constantly interpreting symbolic things as literal and literal things as symbolic or interpreting spiritual things as physical and physical things as spiritual.

Revelation Chapter 11 shows a literal Jerusalem being trampled, and literal (Two Witnesses) that bring literal plagues upon this earth, that literally die and their dead bodies lay in a literal street in Jerusalem, where a literal world watches in celebration

Please give your interpretation of the (Two Witnesses) below, the suspense is killing me!
If you would give me your interpretation of the following passage and answer my questions about it then I will do that. So far you have been afraid to do so.

Matthew 24:1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

When Jesus referenced "the temple" here, what do you think He was referencing? When He referenced "the buildings of the temple", what do you think He was referencing? When Jesus responded to the disciples showing Him "the buildings of the temple" by saying "See ye not all these things" after which He said they would be destroyed, what things was Jesus talking about?

Feel free to look at the following parallel passage if you need help answering those questions:

Mark 13:1 And as he went out of the temple, one of his disciples saith unto him, Master, see what manner of stones and what buildings are here! 2 And Jesus answering said unto him, Seest thou these great buildings? there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
 
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Spiritual Israelite

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Once Again, Posted For The 50th+ Time In Eschatology

Yes the Jerusalem temple was destroyed in 70AD,
Was that not a very significant event? It clearly was, right? Why would scripture not contain any prophecy about that, as you believe?

however the Lord spoke of the temple of his body being destroyed, yes the temple to be destroyed was the Lord's Body, not a temple of stone that took 46 years to build in Jerusalem

John 2:19-22KJV
19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
21 But he spake of the temple of his body.
22 When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said.
Yes, He did speak of that, which I have never denied, but He also prophesied that the physical temple buildings standing at that time would be destroyed. What temple was Jesus referring to in the following that He said would be destroyed?

Mark 13:1 And as he went out of the temple, one of his disciples saith unto him, Master, see what manner of stones and what buildings are here! 2 And Jesus answering said unto him, Seest thou these great buildings? there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
 
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