Why are some interpreters not being honest with the text involving Daniel 9:27?

[Spiritual Israelite]

well thank you..

You just proved that what I thought you said was true. and @Spiritual Israelite accused you of to be in error..

What he explained there is not how he said it the last time we talked about, so I was not in error in terms of how he used to explain it, which gave the impression that he believed Jesus's death happened at the very end of the 69th week, rather than after it ended. Maybe he changed his view since then, I don't know. But, I'm not in error when it comes to what he has said in the past.

But, the problem with his view then is if Jesus died after the 69th week ended (even shortly after), then that places His death within the 70th week and he denies that. There is no basis whatsoever for inserting a gap between the 69th and 70th week and it makes no sense whatsoever to not include Jesus's death anywhere within any of the 70 weeks since His death is a crucial part of fulfilling at least part of the prophecy, as even you acknowledge in relation to making reconciliation for iniquity.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

If someone tells us they will sell there car to you in 7 days because its the 1st and there new car will not be ready until the 8th then we expect top get that car on the 8th in 7 days, not in 12 days in the middle of the next week. We will get the car AFTER 7 days.

Jesus will die AFTER (EXACTLY AFTER) 483 years, not AFTER 483 years plus 3.5 years. Anyone who does not understand the HE in Dan. 9:27 is the Little Horn/A.C. should just leave prophesy alone tbh. This is as simple as it gets. Jesus is KILLED after 483 years just like the Wall is completed after 49 years, not after 52 or 53 years. IIts just that simple my friends.

So, you acknowledge that Jesus's death occurred after (you say right after or very shortly after, but still after) the 69th week (the first 483 years) ended, right? Which means you don't put His death at the very end of the 69th week? If so, then why do you not place His death within the 70th week? What comes after 69? 70. You, like others, force a gap between the end of the 69th week and beginning of the 70th week for no good reason. The prophecy itself gives no such indication at all.

Do you believe that Jesus's death has something to do with the fulfillment of any part of the prophecy, such as fulfilling any of the six things listed in Daniel 9:24? If so, how can His death not fall within any of the 70 weeks? That makes no sense in that case.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

What he explained there is not how he said it the last time we talked about , so I was not in error in terms of how he used to explain it, which gave the impression that he believed Jesus's death happened at the very end of the 69th week, rather than after it ended. Maybe he changed his view since then, I don't know. But, I'm not in error when it comes to what he has said in the past.

could it be you were thinking of someone else?
either way, when you accuse someone of something and you are wrong (the post you accused him in you were wrong) we should humble ourselves and apologize not keep denying we erred or we were wrong

But, the problem with his view then is if Jesus died after the 69th week ended (even shortly after), then that places His death within the 70th week

not if the 70th week was paused. Which as you have been shown many times is the case

and he denies that.

so do I and many others, because we look at the whole of the world and look at the past and even at jesus own words and see something happened then

There is no basis whatsoever for inserting a gap between the 69th and 70th week and it makes no sense whatsoever to not include Jesus's death anywhere within any of the 70 weeks since His death is a crucial part of fulfilling at least part of the prophecy, as even you acknowledge in relation to making reconciliation for iniquity.

Well your wrong in this, you say there is no basis, so much basis syhas been shared in this very thread that for you to continue to say there is no basis is just a heard heart, you can claim you do not believe the evidence given, but to claim there is no basis just shows your heard heart and refusal to see anything past your own belief system

 

[WPM]

lol

whatever man

You give yourself to much credit.

I love to expose people.. especially when they keep saying the same stuff over and over..

The only one you are exposing is yourself. You continually do that because you cannot refute the counter arguments. That is becoming very clear.

 

[WPM]

could it be you were thinking of someone else?
either way, when you accuse someone of something and you are wrong (the post you accused him in you were wrong) we should humble ourselves and apologize not keep denying we erred or we were wrong


not if the 70th week was paused. Which as you have been shown many times is the case

so do I and many others, because we look at the whole of the world and look at the past and even at jesus own words and see something happened then

Well your wrong in this, you say there is no basis, so much basis syhas been shared in this very thread that for you to continue to say there is no basis is just a heard heart, you can claim you do not believe the evidence given, but to claim there is no basis just shows your heard heart and refusal to see anything past your own belief system

No Pretribber will address my simple query. That is because their reasoning is nonsensical.

Can you give me another example in Scripture of such a decapitation of a harmonious time-period - like where God says 7 days and He didn't mean a linear, congruent and sequential 7 days, or 7 years and He didn't mean a linear, congruent and sequential 7 years, or 70 years and He didn't mean a linear, congruent and sequential 70 years? Anything?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

could it be you were thinking of someone else?

No.

either way, when you accuse someone of something and you are wrong (the post you accused him in you were wrong) we should humble ourselves and apologize not keep denying we erred or we were wrong

Did you read what I said? I'm talking about what he had said the last time we spoke about these things. I am not in error about what he said back then. If he changed his view since then, I was not aware of it. But, it's not even entirely clear now that he doesn't still believe that Jesus would be cut off at the end of the 69th week. He said it's after, but then said it was "exactly after". What does that mean? That still gives the impression that He is including Jesus's death at the very end of the 69th week. I asked him to see if that's the case or not, so we'll see.

not if the 70th week was paused. Which as you have been shown many times is the case

I have been shown that people believe that many times, but have never seen a convincing argument to back that up.

Well your wrong in this, you say there is no basis, so much basis syhas been shared in this very thread that for you to continue to say there is no basis is just a heard heart, you can claim you do not believe the evidence given, but to claim there is no basis just shows your heard heart and refusal to see anything past your own belief system

This is a just a bunch of words you typed that say nothing. No one who believes that Jesus's death was necessary to fulfill at least one of the things listed in Daniel 9:24 has made a convincing argument that His death should not be placed within the 70 weeks somewhere. It makes no sense whatsoever that if His death was what fulfilled any of those things to not include His death in the 70 weeks that were determined to fulfill those things. But, you don't even consider this argument. Probably because you know it's a valid argument and you have no answer for it.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

No Pretribber will address my simple query. That is because their reasoning is nonsensical.

Can you give me another example in Scripture of such a decapitation of a harmonious time-period - like where God says 7 days and He didn't mean a linear, congruent and sequential 7 days, or 7 years and He didn't mean a linear, congruent and sequential 7 years, or 70 years and He didn't mean a linear, congruent and sequential 70 years? Anything?

You've asked this question or something similar many times over the years and not once has anyone responded. They won't even respond and admit that there are no other examples of that. They just don't respond at all. Because they know you are making a very valid and strong argument here and they have no answer for it.

 

[WPM]

You've asked this question or something similar many times over the years and not once has anyone responded. They won't even respond and admit that there are no other examples of that. They just don't respond at all. Because they know you are making a very valid and strong argument here and they have no answer for it.

Exactly! Their whole reasoning on this key passage is fanciful and illogical. I suspect they know that, thus their careful and consistent avoidance of it.

 

[Ronald D Milam]

But, the problem with his view then is if Jesus died after the 69th week ended (even shortly after), then that places His death within the 70th week and he denies that. There is no basis whatsoever for inserting a gap between the 69th and 70th week and it makes no sense whatsoever to not include Jesus's death anywhere within any of the 70 weeks since His death is a crucial part of fulfilling at least part of the prophecy, as even you acknowledge in relation to making reconciliation for iniquity.

He dies AFTER the LAST DAY of the 483 years sun rises, ON THE LAST DAY. mean AFTER it started right? You are trying to be too technical in terms and in so doing are conflating the issues. Jesus' death is a MARKER. just like the Wall is a MARKER, just like the Covenant/Agreement between the A.C. and Israel is a MARKER. Jesus did not have to die for Israel to repent, Abraham BELIVED God's Promise, and that was his Righteousness, all the old testament Saints believed in the promised Messiah, so Israel repenting could have happened before Jesus ever died, but it didn't.

I showed how the prophesy is three prophesies and only two are GROUPED TOGETHER. Notice it says 62 and 7, but it never says 62 plus 7 AND 1 does it? The Prophesy is 490 years against who? Israel, and God left or rent the temple when Jesus died and forsook Israel. God saw them as Dead Men's Bones for nigh 2000 years, and then REBIRTHED those dead bones and you can't understand the "GAP" !! Come on man, this is simple stuff that men overcomplicate with grandiose ideas. The Church is the "Time of the Gentiles [SERVICE] unto God". Only when our mission is complete (taking the Gospel unto the whole world) will God then send Elijah and Moses (its Moses IMHO) to get Israel to repent just before the DOTL or God's Wrath falls during the 70th weeks Greatest Ever Troubles (last 1260 days).

NOTICE: The Statue does not include Church Age Kingdoms, it goes from Rome to the 10 Toes and Feet made of Iron AND Clay, a different End Time Kingdom. The Fourth Beast of the Roman Empire turns into the E.U. Anti-Christ or Little Horn who arises amongst the 10 (the Number 10 = Completion, so Complete Rome Revived under the name we now know as the European Union, it is not 10 nations per se). Notice its ONLY about the 7 Beasts who rule over Israel and one is the END TIME Man of Sin/Anti-Christ/Little Horn. God does not limit Himself by mans minds, He thinks way beyond us.

So, you acknowledge that Jesus's death occurred after (you say right after or very shortly after, but still after) the 69th week (the first 483 years) ended, right? Which means you don't put His death at the very end of the 69th week? If so, then why do you not place His death within the 70th week? What comes after 69? 70. You, like others, force a gap between the end of the 69th week and beginning of the 70th week for no good reason. The prophecy itself gives no such indication at all.

After means ON THE LAST DAY, which ends the 483 years. So, after the last day starts or BEFORE the last 7 years could start, even though God rent the temple on that LAST DAY, there was no Anti-Christ to make a 7 year Agreement with, and what kind of person thinks Jesus would make a 7 year Covenant anyway? Jesus' Death is an EVERLASTING COVENANT !! Do you guys even think these things through?

No, here is wat you do, you latch on to other men's idea, I heard this off beat stuff 40 plus years ago. Try thinking for yourself and ASK God to reveal His truths, quit reading other men's stuff, you are doing exactly what Jesus accused the Pharisees of doing, following Men's Traditions.

Do you believe that Jesus's death has something to do with the fulfillment of any part of the prophecy, such as fulfilling any of the six things listed in Daniel 9:24? If so, how can His death not fall within any of the 70 weeks? That makes no sense in that case.

No, the Prophesy is about Israel repenting, they could have repented before Jesus even died !! How did Nineveh repent? WOW, they turned from their evil ways !! You just do not understand the prophecy at all. Some people should slow down and listen for God's voice. Other men's ideas will lead us down wrong paths.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

He dies AFTER the LAST DAY of the 483 years sun rises, ON THE LAST DAY. mean AFTER it started right? You are trying to be too technical in terms and in so doing are conflating the issues.

No, you are trying to avoid acknowledging that if His death occurred after the 69th week (first 483 years) ended, then that places His death within the 70th week.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

After means ON THE LAST DAY, which ends the 483 years.

@Eternally Grateful Here it is. He confirmed that what he means is that Jesus died on the last day of the first 483 years, which means he is saying that Jesus died on the last day of the 69th week. Just as I said. Can you please apologize to me now for accusing me of falsely accusing this person of saying that he believes that Jesus died at the end of the 69th week? That is exactly what he believes.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

No, the Prophesy is about Israel repenting, they could have repented before Jesus even died !! How did Nineveh repent? WOW, they turned from their evil ways !! You just do not understand the prophecy at all. Some people should slow down and listen for God's voice. Other men's ideas will lead us down wrong paths.

This is absolutely unbelievable and very disturbing that you think Jesus's death has nothing to do with fulfilling any part of the prophecy including any of the six things listed in Daniel 9:24. The only way for reconciliation to be made for iniquity is by way of the blood of Christ! People repenting does not accomplish that. People repent in response to Jesus having made reconciliation for their iniquity. Making reconciliation for iniquity means to make atonement for sin. Only Christ's blood makes atonement for sin. You are sadly mistaken. The voice you are listening to regarding this prophecy is not God's voice. That is clear.

 

[Timtofly]

The reason I began rethinking my view of where a gap is, is because of something @Spiritual Israelite said on another board awhile back. And that is, Jesus has to go to the cross during the 70 weeks if He is the one fulfilling any of verse 24. I never thought of it like that before. He's right. It makes perfect sense.

Except all are wrong. They do not allow for the Prince to come to work on the earth, in the 70 weeks either.

Jesus as both Messiah on earth and the Prince to come on earth; is the entire 70th week. Many do not consider the "to come" part.

There is a built in gap between the 7th and 8th week. Another gap between the 69th and 70th week. Then the 70th week was split in half and the last half is yet to come at the Second Coming. Jesus will be on the earth for the final years of the 70th week.

So saying some are wrong, because the Cross was not in the 70th week is just as wrong as saying the Second Coming is not in the 70th week either.

Jesus was not cut off because of the Cross. Jesus ascended to heaven and did not rule as King. Jesus was not cut off because He could not be king. He was cut off for the fulness of the Gentiles.

The 69 weeks were over before Jesus was born. Anna and Simeon were the only two left of the generation watching for the Messiah. The birth of Jesus surprised all living in Palestine, except for Anna and Simeon.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Except all are wrong.

Somehow, everyone is wrong except you. Aren't you special?

There is a built in gap between the 7th and 8th week.

Where do you get this idea from? Prove it.

Another gap between the 69th and 70th week.

Then the 70th week was split in half and the last half is yet to come at the Second Coming. Jesus will be on the earth for the final years of the 70th week.

Jesus was not cut off because of the Cross.

Jesus ascended to heaven and did not rule as King.

Ephesians 1:19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power, 20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places, 21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:
22 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,

Jesus was not cut off because He could not be king. He was cut off for the fulness of the Gentiles.

The 69 weeks were over before Jesus was born.

 

[Timtofly]

You've asked this question or something similar many times over the years and not once has anyone responded. They won't even respond and admit that there are no other examples of that. They just don't respond at all. Because they know you are making a very valid and strong argument here and they have no answer for it.

It was already broken up since the Lamb was slain from the foundation of the world. That was 5,000 years before the Cross.

The 70 weeks was over behore it started. Sin was already removed and taken care of prior to creation, from your point of view that the Cross fulfilled all those promises. They were already in place before Genesis 1:1.

 

[Timtofly]

Where do you get this idea from? Prove it.

"Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks."

And

"after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off."

There was a gap because Daniel did not write after threescore and ten weeks.

Gabriel purposely told of 7 weeks and then 62 weeks:

"and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times."

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

"Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks."

And

"after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off."

There was a gap because Daniel did not write after threescore and ten weeks.

Gabriel purposely told of 7 weeks and then 62 weeks:

"and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times."

There's no indication of a gap between the first 7 weeks and the next 62 weeks. Just because they are mentioned separately doesn't imply a gap of time between the end of the first 7 weeks and the beginning of the next 62 weeks. There are just different things that would happen in the first 7 weeks and then other things that would happen in the next 62 weeks. So, as I suspected, you have no proof of a gap.

 

[Timtofly]

There's no indication of a gap between the first 7 weeks and the next 62 weeks. Just because they are mentioned separately doesn't imply a gap of time between the end of the first 7 weeks and the beginning of the next 62 weeks. There are just different things that would happen in the first 7 weeks and then other things that would happen in the next 62 weeks. So, as I suspected, you have no proof of a gap.

If you compare Ezra and Nehemiah with Daniel, there was a break in what should have happened.

You cannot prove it was just a single 70 weeks, because that is not how Daniel wrote it. There is proof of a gap, because it would have stated threescore and ten. Threescore and ten is not a forbidden concept in Scripture. It is used quite frequently.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

If you compare Ezra and Nehemiah with Daniel, there was a break in what should have happened.

Do you expect me to just take your word for that? Show me. How can I trust anything you say after you say things like "Jesus was not cut off because of the Cross", whatever in the world that even means, and "The 69 weeks were over before Jesus was born" and other nonsense like that?

 

[Timtofly]

Do you expect me to just take your word for that? Show me. How can I trust anything you say after you say things like "Jesus was not cut off because of the Cross", whatever in the world that even means, and "The 69 weeks were over before Jesus was born" and other nonsense like that?

Because that is the historical record, not these hundreds of versions of the 70 weeks out there. Study Scripture instead of human theology, and you will understand.

Are you saying Jesus never rose from the dead? That the "cut off" you interpret was the end of Jesus on the earth? Think man, think. Jesus left earth as He ascended, and that was when He was no longer on the earth as Prince, nor Messiah. The 70th week is allegedly 7 years, no? Was part of that 7 years accomplished by Jesus or was Jesus on the earth for the whole 7 years? If the 7 years were not complete, is that not being "cut off"?

Messiah was not just the Lamb, which seems to be the face of the "cut off part". Yet even Gabriel said that the Prince was to come, after not being on the earth. That is as much about the Second Coming as what Paul wrote.

What good is posting verses anyway, as you never address them?

I have posted the verses that show Anna and Simeon were old and well stricken in age and were the only two still looking for the promise of the 70 weeks. No one else even cared at that point. King Herod had to consult the scribes, and re-read the prophets, out of surprise, that magi from the east knew more than he did.

You all have your perfect human theology down to the very hour and moment. Yet that is not how God works. The work was stopped around 49 years just as Gabriel had pointed out, but you would just call that coincidence, as that messes with your human timeline. There had to be a declaration that started the original decree back into motion. But don't let those pesky facts stand in your way, nor my reluctance to keep posting Scripture, that you would dismiss any ways, and only focus on personal attacks, study it out for yourself, and then prove me wrong.