Why are some interpreters not being honest with the text involving Daniel 9:27?

[Truth7t7]

You misunderstood what I was saying, which is no surprise. That text is saying 69 weeks would pass and that would lead to Messiah the Prince. What I'm saying is that it doesn't specify what "unto the Messiah the Prince" means exactly. Obviously, there is no consensus about what that phrase means.

It clearly states 69 weeks will be in building unto "Messiah The Prince" you're not changing this fact, it goes so far as giving detail on building a wall and street

Your problem is you believe 69 weeks represents 483 literal historical years "Wrong", the 70 future weeks are literally, and will start with a "Future" command to build in Jerusalem

Daniel 9:25KJV
25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

Daniel 9:24-27, Seventy Literal Weeks Explained "Future"?

Daniel's 70 weeks are literal 7 day periods, or 490 literal days.

If Daniel meant 490 years he would have written

(Four Hundred Ninety Years)

Daniel had no restrictions in "Writing" exact numerology as seen below.

Daniel 6:1KJV
It pleased Darius to set over the kingdom an hundred and twenty princes, which should be over the whole kingdom;

Daniel 8:14KJV
And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.

Daniel 12:11KJV
And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

Below in Daniel 10:2-3 we see just another example of Daniel's literal weeks, as Daniel mourned and fasted for 3 literal weeks or 21 days.

Daniel 10:2-3KJV
2 In those days I Daniel was mourning three full weeks.
3 I ate no pleasant bread, neither came flesh nor wine in my mouth, neither did I anoint myself at all, till three whole weeks were fulfilled.

Below in Daniel 9:24-27 we see 70 literal "Future" weeks or 490 days.

When the "Future" call/commandment goes out in Jerusalem to build unto the Jewish Meshiach/Messiah that they wait for (They Denied Jesus Christ) this will start the 7 week period in preparing to build.

62 literal weeks will be in building, and Meshiach/Messiah will be cut off by the armies surrounding Jerusalem, this stops the building.

The 70th literal week will see (The Antichrist) revealed in making a covenant, and in the middle of this literal week he proclaims to be Meshiach/Messiah God to the Jews, and Jesus returned to the apostate church, to start a Millennium on earth.

The 3.5 year tribulation starts at this time.

Daniel 9:24-27KJV
24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

It clearly states 69 weeks will be in building unto "Messiah The Prince" you're not changing this fact, it goes so far as giving detail on building a wall and street

I'm not saying anything about that, I'm trying to talk about what "unto Messiah the Prince" means. Why don't you read what I actually say instead of just making things up? What do you think "unto Messiah the Prince" means? Unto His birth? Unto His baptism? Unto His triumphal entry in Jerusalem? What?

Your problem is you believe 69 weeks represents 483 literal historical years "Wrong", the 70 future weeks are literally, and will start with a "Future" command to build in Jerusalem

LOL. Are you comfortable being the only one who believes this? Does God reveal things like this to only one person? No, He does not. This is complete nonsense. The text indicates that after the 69th week the Messiah is cut off. That's an obvious reference to Christ's death, which obviously happened long ago and not in the future. You need to stop believing this nonsense.

I don't know how this:

Isaiah 53:8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.

could possibly not make someone think of this (and vice versa):

Daniel 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

In what other sense can the Messiah be cut off other than being "cut off out of the land of the living"?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I already agree there is a gap in the 70 weeks. I tend to think it's likely after the middle of the 70th week rather than between the 69th and 70th week, for the reasons I have been arguing.

Correct me if I am wrong. Your view has at the end of the 69 weeks being palm Sunday, correct? That means Christ is cut off a week after the 69 weeks end,

I believe we are told from the command to restore jerusalem until messiah the Prince, is 7 weeks plus 62 weeks (69 weeks)

I believe prophecy tells us when this will occurs. If we listen to Jesus carefully. He kept saying, It is not my time yet. There is a reason for this. Because the prophet tells Jerusalem, and us WHEN messiah will come

Zechariah 9:9
“Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion! Shout, O daughter of Jerusalem! Behold, your King is coming to you; He is just and having salvation, Lowly and riding on a donkey, A colt, the foal of a donkey

I believe this is called Palm Sunday? Never thought of it this way. I just know this is the only prophecy concerning what it will look like when Messiah is introduced as king.

Dan is then told. After this, Messiah will be cut off.

It’s a stretch to say this is 3.5 years later. Language fits better if we make it occur literally the next weekend. When he hung on a cross.

thus doesn't agree with verse 24 since it has Him being cut off, not during the 70 weeks, but outside of them during a gap where the 70 weeks are no longer being counted at this point.

Not sure what you mean by vs 24. Did you mean 26?

I agree, it is outside the 70 weeks. Jesus tells us right after he enters jerusalem as king.

Luke 19: 41 Now as He drew near, He saw the city and wept over it, 42 saying, “If you had known, even you, especially in this your day, the things thatmake for your peace! But now they are hidden from your eyes. 43 For days will come upon you when your enemies will build an embankment around you, surround you and close you in on every side, 44 and level you, and your children within you, to the ground; and they will not leave in you one stone upon another, because you did not know the time of your visitation.”

Notice 2 things here

1. He tells them they should have known this day. And they should have 69 weeks.. not only this, they wer told how Messiah would come, on a donkey
2. He mentions the next item in Daniel 9 prophecy, The destruction of the city.

He also makes this statement, Now it is hidden from you. The 70 weeks has been paused at this time.

No way can a week after something ends mean that it happens before it ends. IOW, 69 weeks and one literal 7 days later does not equal 69 weeks, it equals 69 weeks plus one literal 7 days, thus these literal 7 days are outside of the 69 weeks, not during them. Only the 69 weeks and the 70th week are valid options pertaining to verse 24. Shouldn't take a rocket scientist to figure that out.

again do you mean vs 26? Vs 25 is what will be fulfilled after 70 weeks.

vs 26:
26 “And after the sixty-two weeks
Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself;

Happens 7 days after messiah enters

And the people of the prince who is to come
Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary.

Happens in 70 AD. Almost 40 years after the end of the 69th week, and messiah being cut off

The end of it shall be with a flood,
And till the end of the war desolations are determined.

This whole verse is the GAP. From the end of the 69th week until Vs 27, when the 70th week begins.

Also of note. Jesus mentions it in his cry over jerusalem.

And not only this, though I didn't initially realize it at the time, a starting date of 454 BC has apparently been debunked and that that decree was in 444/5 BC instead. How can you possibly think you have a position to argue if you don't even have a valid starting point to argue with?

Your right, The decree was given in 445 Bc in Nehemiah 2 when artexerxes made the command to restor the city.

So I would suggest you ask someone what they think before making assumptions.. I never stated 454 BC. There was not a command to restore the city then.

 

[covenantee]

The "Consummation" or "Ultimate End" in seen in 2 Peter 3:10-12 below, your false claim this ultimate end took place in 70AD is "Laughable"

You openly bend and twist scripture, trying desperately to use 70AD as fulfillment, your preterist claims are "False"

2 Peter 3:10-12KJ
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

It is to laugh. The word "consummation" occurs exactly once in the KJV, and that is in Daniel 9:27. In OT Hebrew, it is "kalah". But you've never heard of OT Hebrew, so instead you have to go whining and crying to English daddy Merriam-Webster, looking in vain for comfort which doesn't exist.

Don't forget your F-words. They're your constant companions:
futurism, fabrication, fallacy, fantasy, failure, folly, and futility

 

[Davy]

It is not a distortion. Lets look at it.

What you are saying is... a distortion of the Scripture, simply because you have been wrongly taught to assign that Luke 19 section to the Romans in 70 A.D., and think that's it, prophecy complete, when it is not.

THE ACTUAL ASSIGNMENT OF THE 70 WEEKS OF DANIEL 9:

Dan 9:25-27
25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

From the time of the command to restore and to build Jerusalem unto Messiah (Jesus) will be "seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks." The way that is worded would make it SEEM that it would be 69 weeks up to Jesus' 1st coming, but as God's Word often does, we have to continue reading since more detail might be given later...

26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

What you have wrongly been taught to think, is to interpret that word "after" as if it means 'hereafter', like Jesus' Ministry continued after the end of the 69th week. That's idea is impossible simply because of the following...

"... and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary;...". That part Jesus had nothing to do with. That "prince that shall come" was about the Roman commander Titus and his army that destroyed Jerusalem and the temple in 70 A.D.

And there is a HUGE DIFFERENCE with claiming Jesus did that as a part of His Ministry! The Romans did it, not Jesus! And that is so even IF God did send the Romans to destroy it.

Moreover, that part, "... and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined," is referring to the very end of this world with what the Antichrist is to do for the "great tribulation", and...

27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
KJV

Because verse 27 does not reveal the name of who that "he" is, we are required to go back up to verse 26 to pick up who that "he" is. And that is that "prince that shall come...", i.e., the Roman general Titus and his army that destroyed Jerusalem and the temple in 70 A.D. The difference is that Titus only serves as a TYPE for this "he" in verses 27, which is about the "abomination of desolation" at the END which Jesus quoted in Matthew 24 and Mark 13 about the "great tribulation" time.

(And on a side note about that "he" (Antichrist at the end), the Romans in 70 A.D. tried to seize the Jerusalem temple, but it instead caught fire inside and burned down before they could get possession of it. Thus the Romans did no "abomination of desolation" event of placing an IDOL in false worship inside that temple (this per the Jewish historian Josephus - 100 A.D.)

But the doctrine of men that you are on instead just bypasses the rest of that Daniel 9:26 verse and its connection with the future Antichrist at the very end of this world which continues into Daniel 9:27. Even that idea of a symbolic "flood" in verse 26 is a specific pointer for a particular end time event that Satan is do and was prophesied of in Revelation.

Jesus touched on this,
Lk 19
41 As He approached Jerusalem, He saw the city and wept over it [and the spiritual ignorance of its people], 42 saying, “If [only] you had known on this day [of salvation], even you, the things which make for peace [and on which peace depends]! But now they have been hidden from your eyes. 43 For a time [of siege] is coming when your enemies will put up a barricade [with pointed stakes] against you, and surround you [with armies] and hem you in on every side, 44 and they will level you to the ground, you [Jerusalem] and your children within you. They will not leave in you one stone on another, all because you did not [come progressively to] recognize [from observation and personal experience] the time of your visitation [when God was gracious toward you and offered you salvation].”

Zeph 3:8-9
8 Therefore wait ye upon Me, saith the LORD, until the day that I rise up to the prey: for My determination is to gather the nations, that I may assemble the kingdoms, to pour upon them Mine indignation, even all My fierce anger: for all the earth shall be devoured with the fire of My jealousy.

9 For then will I turn to the people a pure language, that they may all call upon the name of the LORD, to serve Him with one consent.
KJV

What time frame are the above Zeph.3:8-9 verses pointing to? It should be very easy. That is about the day when Christ returns to do battle on the "day of the Lord", and God's final cup of wrath is poured upon the earth, His consuming fire.

That is the day Jesus was talking about in Luke 21 with the armies surrounding Jerusalem at the end. And then the day of vengeance happens upon them with Christ's return. Do you not see that as a pattern associated with the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A.D.?

The 70 A.D. destruction only served as a BLUEPRINT for the coming FINAL destruction upon the temple mount when Jesus returns, not one stone atop another (today there's still many huge stones atop one another at the temple mount). That is why Jesus pointed to the final generation on earth will 'see' ALL those things (i.e., Signs He gave in His Olivet discourse, included the not one stone atop another Sign). Therefore, that destruction event IS A TYPE OF DUEL FULFILLMENT PROPHECY.

 

[jeffweeder]

What you are saying is... a distortion of the Scripture, simply because you have been wrongly taught to assign that Luke 19 section to the Romans in 70 A.D., and think that's it, prophecy complete, when it is not.

THE ACTUAL ASSIGNMENT OF THE 70 WEEKS OF DANIEL 9:

Dan 9:25-27
25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

From the time of the command to restore and to build Jerusalem unto Messiah (Jesus) will be "seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks." The way that is worded would make it SEEM that it would be 69 weeks up to Jesus' 1st coming,

Nobody taught me this but the Scriptures.
The way it is worded is the way it is. He is revealed as Messiah after the 69 weeks.
John the Baptist, as prophesied, was on hand to prepare and reveal his arrival. Lets forget about the donkey marking his arrival.

He was anointed with the Holy Spirit to begin his complete work of redemption.
The Spirit of the lord was upon him to preach the good news of Dan 9:24 and confirm a New covenant in his blood, and once and for all anointing the most Holy Place.

When God made the 70 week promise it took him 70 weeks to accomplish it for Daniels people, not over 2000+ weeks as some falsely propose a future fulfillment.

Our complete Spirit filled atonement and right standing in God is their ready and waiting for us to appropriate by faith, what is already ours in Jesus Christ.

but as God's Word often does, we have to continue reading since more detail might be given later...

This detail you posted below, only serves to show it occurring after the 69 weeks, just like his coming after the 69th week of the decree

26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

 

[Davy]

The reason I began rethinking my view of where a gap is, is because of something @Spiritual Israelite said on another board awhile back. And that is, Jesus has to go to the cross during the 70 weeks if He is the one fulfilling any of verse 24. I never thought of it like that before. He's right. It makes perfect sense.

That actually does NOT make sense.

That statement in bold you made above is like saying if you pull a piece of fruit out of a box, and it's an orange, then all the fruit in that box must be oranges.

The events given in Daniel 9:24 are prophetic events that must occur upon Jerusalem and her people. That does NOT mean they have to be part of Jesus' Ministry, for that is a silly notion.

You appear to be wanting... to believe that Jesus fulfilled the 70th week of the Daniel 9 prophecy. Believe what you want.

 

[Davy]

It's SILLY to compare a prophecy without a set duration to Daniel 9:24-27 which did have a set duration as evidence that there can be a gap within a prophecy with a set duration. But, go ahead and continue making your SILLY argument if you insist.

What I have shown about the Daniel 9 70 weeks prophecy includes many linked prophecies that directly involve it per the Book of Daniel, and Christ's Olivet discourse, and Christ's Book of Revelation, and even many Old Testament Scriptures by God's prophets about the "day of the Lord".

But all that deceived folks like yourself have done is rely on a 'theory' designed by a few deceived men that serve their own doctrine that goes outside The Bible, like Preterism or Historicism. And that's actually your 'scripture' you rely upon, which is why you deceived folks cannot follow all the Bible Scriptures that are linked to that Daniel 9 prophecy.

 

[Davy]

Talk about distorting scripture. It absolutely does NOT say He would be cut off at the end of the 69th week. Why are you being so dishonest?

You are the one telling LIES against the actual Daniel 9:25-26 Scripture.

Dan 9:26-27
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
KJV

You... say, that Jesus' Ministry continued after the 69th week into... the 70th week fulfilling it. That is a FALSEHOOD. And it is EASY to disprove per the above Scripture.

Everything above in 'red' is about what that "prince that shall come" does, and is about the Roman general Titus who destroyed Jerusalem and the temple in 70 A.D. And the Dan.9:27 verse picks up that SAME office as "the prince that shall come" with the "he" in verse 27 as a TYPE (Antichrist) for the end of this world.

Therefore, per the actual written Daniel 9:26-27 Scripture, it is EASY to know that Jesus' Ministry ended with the 69th week.

 

[Davy]

Nobody taught me this but the Scriptures.
The way it is worded is the way it is. He is revealed as Messiah after the 69 weeks.
John the Baptist, as prophesied, was on hand to prepare and reveal his arrival. Lets forget about the donkey marking his arrival.

....

As usual, jeffweeder gives no actual Bible Scripture support for his theory.

 

[Truth7t7]

I'm not saying anything about that, I'm trying to talk about what "unto Messiah the Prince" means. Why don't you read what I actually say instead of just making things up? What do you think "unto Messiah the Prince" means? Unto His birth? Unto His baptism? Unto His triumphal entry in Jerusalem? What?

The Jews are building in the "Future" to the Messiah shown in the old testament "Jesus Christ", whom they didn't receive, the Chief cornerstone was rejected by the Jews

Does it state building unto Messiah, 100% yes

Does it state a wall and street to be built again in troublous times 100% yes the future tribulation, believe what's written don't add or take away from scripture

LOL. Are you comfortable being the only one who believes this? Does God reveal things like this to only one person? No, He does not. This is complete nonsense. The text indicates that after the 69th week the Messiah is cut off. That's an obvious reference to Christ's death, which obviously happened long ago and not in the future. You need to stop believing this nonsense.

Messiah is "Cut Off" when the "Future" armies surround Jerusalem and the building unto Messish is stopped, and this didn't take place in 70AD

I don't know how this:

Isaiah 53:8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.

could possibly not make someone think of this (and vice versa):

Daniel 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

In what other sense can the Messiah be cut off other than being "cut off out of the land of the living"?

The "Context" is seen all the way through verse 27 below, something you don't acknowledge in your false belief in 70AD fulfillment, that has the bad guy present on earth until the "Consummation" or "Ultimate End"

Do you also believe the "He" below is Jesus Christ making desolation as Covenantee and WPM believe?

Daniel 9:27KJV
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

 

[jeffweeder]

As usual, jeffweeder gives no actual Bible Scripture support for his theory.

I referred you to John the Baptist....

29 The next day he saw Jesus coming to him and said, “Look! The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world! 30 This is He on behalf of whom I said, ‘After me comes a Man who has a higher rank than I and has priority over me, for He existed before me.’ 31 I did not recognize Him [as the Messiah]; but I came baptizing in water so that He would be [publicly] revealed to Israel.”


32 John gave [further] evidence [testifying officially for the record, with validity and relevance], saying, “I have seen the Spirit descending as a dove out of heaven, and He remained upon Him. 33 I did not recognize Him [as the Messiah], but He who sent me to baptize in water said to me, ‘He upon whom you see the Spirit descend and remain, this One is He who baptizes with the Holy Spirit.’ 34 I myself have [actually] seen [that happen], and my testimony is that this is the Son of God!”

This is what "Until Messiah" means in Dan 9:24 thanks to the prophetic ministry of JTB.

 

[covenantee]

The Jews are building in the "Future" to the Messiah shown in the old testament "Jesus Christ", whom they didn't receive, the Chief cornerstone was rejected by the Jews

Does it state building unto Messiah, 100% yes

Does it state a wall and street to be built again in troublous times 100% yes the future tribulation, believe what's written don't add or take away from scripture

Messiah is "Cut Off" when the "Future" armies surround Jerusalem and the building unto Messish is stopped, and this didn't take place in 70AD

The "Context" is seen all the way through verse 27 below, something you don't acknowledge in your false belief in 70AD fulfillment, that has the bad guy present on earth until the "Consummation" or "Ultimate End"

Do you also believe the "He" is Jesus Christ making desolation as Covenantee and WPM below?

Daniel 9:27KJV
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Still waiting for that "bad guy" verse.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

How so? It does not say how long after the end of the 69th week that the Messiah would be cut off. So, why not 3.5 years after? Nothing in the text prevents that from being the case.

If you do not want to see it. Nothing will convince you.

It does not fit the passage. the middle of the week is the middle of a 7 year covenant made by a prince. And the abomination of desolation this prince stands in the holy place.

Not the messiah being cut off or being hung on a cross

two different events

This is false. The word itself does not imply one way or another how long after. It can be used to refer to something that happens shortly after or long after something else. You obviously made this up without even researching what the word means or else you would have provided example to back up your claim.

Genesis 30:19 Leah conceived again and bore Jacob a sixth son. 20 Then Leah said, “God has presented me with a precious gift. This time my husband will treat me with honor, because I have borne him six sons.” So she named him Zebulun. 21 Some time later ('aḥar) she gave birth to a daughter and named her Dinah.

Notice here that it talks about Leah giving birth to a sixth son that she had with Jacob. Then it says "Some time later ('aḥar) she gave birth to a daughter". So, it obviously had to be at least about 9 months later after Zebulun was born that Dinah was born. Unless, they were twins, but there is no indication of such. In Barnes notes on this verse he said "Dinah" is the only daughter of Jacob mentioned Genesis 46:7, and that on account of her subsequent connection with the history of Jacob Genesis 34. Issakar appears to have been born in the sixth year after Jacob's marriage, Zebulun in the seventh, and Dinah in the eighth.".

Since I wouldn't be surprised that you would try to argue that Dinah was Zebulun's twin, I will give another example where the Hebrew word is used and doesn't mean right after.

Leviticus 25:15 According to the number of years after ('aḥar) the jubile thou shalt buy of thy neighbour, and according unto the number of years of the fruits he shall sell unto thee:

In this verse the word is used to refer to something that was to be done "years after the jubile". So, years after is obviously not right after.

I'll give one more example and that should suffice. The word is sometimes used to refer to someone being behind someone else or something like that and is not always used in relation to time. And most of the time when used in relation to time it doesn't specify how much time after or give any indication if it's a short or long time after.

Deuteronomy 31:29 For I know that after ('aḥar) my death ye will utterly corrupt yourselves, and turn aside from the way which I have commanded you; and evil will befall you in the latter days; because ye will do evil in the sight of the Lord, to provoke him to anger through the work of your hands. 30 And Moses spake in the ears of all the congregation of Israel the words of this song, until they were ended.

Here, the word is used to refer to something that would happen some time after Moses's death. Not immediately or right after, but something that he knew would eventually happen some time after he died.

So, now that you know what the word actually means, will you take another look at Daniel 9:26 with that understanding?


In other words, you like to interpret everything as if everything is meant to be taken literally, so that no real thought or spiritual discernment is required. Just like Paul said we should do, right? Or not.

1 Corinthians 2:14 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. 13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Yawn

Like I said, If you do not want to see something, You will not. no matter how much evidence is given.

This is proven in scripture when Jesus rose a man from the dead. and instead of religious pharisees falling on their faces and praising God. they sought to kill Jesus, and Lazarus..

Once again, IT DOES NOT FIT THE NARRATIVE..

 

[Eternally Grateful]

There are no prophecies that are of a specified duration that have any gaps in them. Of course, any prophecies that are not of a specified duration can have gaps in them because they just talk about things that will happen without saying everything prophesied has to happen within a certain amount of time or all around the same time. That is irrelevant when it comes to Daniel 9:24-27.

well thanks for making it very easy to prove you in error.

The nice thing about this, if I can prove you wrong in one area. I place in doubt all the rest of what you think concerning gap0s.

Look at this prophecy.

So here is about one prophecy concerning the acceptable year of the lord and the day of vengeance of our God. 2 different events. Jesus tried to share this with his people when he read from this in Luke 4. When he read vs 1 through 2a and then sat down after he said today is this day.

If we look at 2b and on, those things have not happened yet.



“The Spirit of the Lord God is upon Me,
Because the Lord has anointed Me
To preach good tidings to the poor;
He has sent Me to [a]heal the brokenhearted,
To proclaim liberty to the captives,
And the opening of the prison to those who are bound;
2 To proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord,

This is completed


And the day of vengeance of our God;
To comfort all who mourn,
3 To [b]console those who mourn in Zion,
To give them beauty for ashes,
The oil of joy for mourning,
The garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness;
That they may be called trees of righteousness,
The planting of the Lord, that He may be glorified.”

4 And they shall rebuild the old ruins,
They shall raise up the former desolations,
And they shall repair the ruined cities,
The desolations of many generations.
5 Strangers shall stand and feed your flocks,
And the sons of the foreigner
Shall be your plowmen and your vinedressers.
6 But you shall be named the priests of the Lord,
They shall call you the servants of our God.
You shall eat the riches of the Gentiles,
And in their glory you shall boast.
7 Instead of your shame you shall have double honor,
And instead of confusion they shall rejoice in their portion.
Therefore in their land they shall possess double;
Everlasting joy shall be theirs.

This has not yet till this day come to pass.

Until the death of Jesus you would not know these are two separate events separated by literally thousands of years.. But today we have something they did not. We can see what happened and what has not. and be shown the "hidden mystery"

This is not the only one.. there are many

Jesus first advent was so hidden, you could not even know it would be Gods messiah who would come and die.. It was ALWAYS though that Jesus would come and literally set up his kingdom.

Well this has not changed, He will do this.. But he also fulfilled the suffering servant, literally fulfilling every prophecy of the 1st advent.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

What difference does that make (in or within)? Are you purposely trying to avoid addressing my point? Do you believe that Christ's death relates to the fulfillment of at least one of the things listed in Daniel 9:24? I believe you have said before that His death is what fulfilled making reconciliation for iniquity. Is that correct? If so, then how can His death not fall within any of the 70 weeks when His death is crucial to the fulfillment of at least part of the 70 week prophecy?

it does not matter,

if all of the events are not fulfilled. the prophecy is still open. it has not yet been completed

if only 1 of them is completed. Then the prophecy is not fulfilled

if the prophecy is not fulfilled. and the 69th week ended 2000 years ago.

well guess what, there must be a gap

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Nobody taught me this but the Scriptures.
The way it is worded is the way it is. He is revealed as Messiah after the 69 weeks.
John the Baptist, as prophesied, was on hand to prepare and reveal his arrival. Lets forget about the donkey marking his arrival.

I find this hard to believe

When God made the 70 week promise it took him 70 weeks to accomplish it for Daniels people, not over 2000+ weeks as some falsely propose a future fulfillment.

Yet everything that was said would be completed has not yet been completed.

so either we have to throw Daniel out like the Jews have done. Or confess that it is still a future event

 

[Davy]

I referred you to John the Baptist....

29 The next day he saw Jesus coming to him and said, “Look! The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world! 30 This is He on behalf of whom I said, ‘After me comes a Man who has a higher rank than I and has priority over me, for He existed before me.’ 31 I did not recognize Him [as the Messiah]; but I came baptizing in water so that He would be [publicly] revealed to Israel.”


32 John gave [further] evidence [testifying officially for the record, with validity and relevance], saying, “I have seen the Spirit descending as a dove out of heaven, and He remained upon Him. 33 I did not recognize Him [as the Messiah], but He who sent me to baptize in water said to me, ‘He upon whom you see the Spirit descend and remain, this One is He who baptizes with the Holy Spirit.’ 34 I myself have [actually] seen [that happen], and my testimony is that this is the Son of God!”

This is what "Until Messiah" means in Dan 9:24 thanks to the prophetic ministry of JTB.

That determines nothing towards proving the false theory that Jesus' Ministry continued into the 70th week. It does not tell us when John said that.

 

[covenantee]

I find this hard to believe

Yet everything that was said would be completed has not yet been completed.

so either we have to throw Daniel out like the Jews have done. Or confess that it is still a future event

Luke 18
31 Then he took unto him the twelve, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished.

Messiah has some choice words and enlightenment for you.

Luke 24
25 Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:
27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.
44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.
45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,

Was Daniel one of "all the prophets" who wrote concerning Messiah?

Did Daniel write Daniel 9:24 and does it all concern Messiah?

Did Messiah say that all things concerning Him must be accomplished and fulfilled?

The answers are more than self-evident.

Or would you rather continue to repeat Luke 24:25?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Luke 18
31 Then he took unto him the twelve, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished.

Oh I Agree. And they were accomplished.

But we are talking about Dan 9. which concerns the people of Daniel and his Holy City

Messiah has some choice words and enlightenment for you.

Luke 24
25 Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:
27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.
44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.
45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,

Was Daniel one of "all the prophets" who wrote concerning Messiah?

Did Daniel write Daniel 9:24 and does it all concern Messiah?

Did Messiah say that all things concerning Him must be accomplished and fulfilled?

The answers are more than self-evident.

Or would you rather continue to repeat Luke 24:25?

You will see only what you want to see. This has been well established.

Dan 9: 24 says who this prophecy concerning.

Dan 9: 24
24 “Seventy [e]weeks are determined
For your people and for your holy city,

Its not about Christ, or for Christ.

But again, you will only see what you want.