tailgator
Well-Known Member
Strawman.
You said it was talking about New Jerusalem which has not come down out of heaven in revelation 20.It does not come down out of heaven till revelation 21:2.
Why Antiochus Epiphanes IV Is Not The Little Horn - Part 2: "exceeding great"
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Strawman.
You said it was talking about New Jerusalem which has not come down out of heaven in revelation 20.It does not come down out of heaven till revelation 21:2.
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
You are not paying attention to what I'm saying. It isn't only in heaven as the following passages show:
Hebrews 12:18 You have not come to a mountain that can be touched and that is burning with fire; to darkness, gloom and storm; 19 to a trumpet blast or to such a voice speaking words that those who heard it begged that no further word be spoken to them, 20 because they could not bear what was commanded: “If even an animal touches the mountain, it must be stoned to death.” 21 The sight was so terrifying that Moses said, “I am trembling with fear.” 22 But you have come to Mount Zion, to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem. You have come to thousands upon thousands of angels in joyful assembly,
Galatians 4:25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children. 26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
The New Jerusalem is referred to as "the bride, the Lamb's wife" (Revelation 21:9). It's a symbolic representation of the church. We are part of it now, as this passage clearly shows. Will you please address this? Part of it is in heaven and part is on earth. The souls of the dead in Christ are the part that is in heaven and we on earth are also part of it, as this scripture indicates.
What other city at the time when Revelation 20:9 occurs could be considered "the beloved city" except for the heavenly new Jerusalem?
Just because I may be showing you something that you haven't seen before doesn't mean you should immediately dismiss it. Are you willing to be objective with scripture?
Earburner
Well-Known Member
Dan. 2:
[38] And wheresoever the children of men dwell, the beasts of the field and the fowls of the heaven hath he given into thine hand, and hath made thee ruler over them all.
Thou [Neb's Babylon] art this head of gold.[39] And after thee shall arise another kingdom inferior to thee, and another third kingdom of brass, which shall bear rule over all the earth.
> The "image" reveals all of the four beasts, as described in Daniel 7:3-9, and then again more so Dan. 8:1-12
Gabriel then gives the interpretation of them in Dan. 8:13-27.
Who WAS the "little horn"?
tailgator
Well-Known Member
The city bring spoken of in revelation 20:9 is Jerusalem.That is where the resurected saints of Israel reign with Christ during the millennium.before Gog and and the nations outside the promised land come against Israel.
Ezekiel 37-38 shows the same thing.
Ezekiel 37
24 And David my servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them.
25 And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children's children for ever: and my servant David shall be their prince for ever.
When Gog comes against these resurected saints who came out of their graves in Ezekiel 37:12-13,they will be safely living in the land of Israel in peace without walls or fences.
tailgator
Well-Known Member
Your question shouldn't be who was the little horn.It should be who is the little horn.
The little horn who is diverse from the first ten horns and appears stouter is Israel.
The same little horn that subdued the horns of Egypt ,Syria and Jordan when it captured the seven hilled city of Jerusalem.
The little horn will persecute the saints in his kingdom for 42 months.
Mathew 10
23 But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.
The saints in the little horns little kingdom will be persecuted throughout all his cities.The saints are not persecuted in Rome or Europe.They are not persecuted in China or the US.They are persecuted in all the cities of Israel before Christ comes as Jesus said in Mathew 10;23 above.Jesus spoke often of the persecution at the hands of the little horn .
tailgator
Well-Known Member
PS
The little horn appears to like beating Jesus disciples in synagogues.You can tell,Jesus disciples are following his lead by testifying in the synagogues.
The little horn has many synagogues to choose from.
Luke 21
12 But before all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake.
Earburner
Well-Known Member
For reasons of scripture in Dan.7 and Dan.8, I most certainly did ask the question correctly.
Unfortunately, you may not find the answer, because you are off on a tangent, other than what Gabriel had interpreted for Daniel.
tailgator
Well-Known Member
Well,the little horn is just fine and his kingdom.has not been consumed as yet.It doesn't take place till the end as the verse says.
Daniel ,7
26 But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end.
It will be cast into the lake of fire at the end of the ,42 months,which has not started yet.
Revelation 13
5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
When exactly are you saying the beast was cast into.the lake of fire ?
Earburner
Well-Known Member
For reasons of scripture in Dan.7 and Dan.8, I most certainly did ask the question correctly.
Unfortunately, you may not find the answer, because you are off on a tangent, other than what Gabriel had interpreted for Daniel. I am opposed to the title of the following thread:
Post in thread 'Why Antiochus Epiphanes IV Is Not The Little Horn - Part I: "in the latter time of their kingdom"' Why Antiochus Epiphanes IV Is Not The Little Horn - Part I: "in the latter time of their kingdom"
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- Jan 14, 2015
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"Each day for a year" - Numbers 14:34
"Each day for a year" - Ezekiel 4:6
"Today, tomorrow, and the third day" - Jesus, referring to the remaining 3 years of His Earthly ministry.
You readily admit the 70 Weeks are 490 years, but when someone comes along and tosses a wrench in your 2300 days Jesuit Preterist Antiochus temple nonsense, he's a "fabricator"?
tailgator
Well-Known Member
Well,the little horn is just fine and his kingdom.has not been consumed as yet.It doesn't take place till the end as the verse says.
Daniel ,7
26 But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end.
It will be cast into the lake of fire at the end of the ,42 months,which has not started yet.
Revelation 13
5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
When exactly are you saying the beast was cast into.the lake of fire ?
tailgator
Well-Known Member
If your going to claim the beast was cast into the lake of fire,you should at least be able to provide the date you say this took place.
Earburner
Well-Known Member
Let's not jump too far forward until the identity of the "little horn" is established.
Most all of CHURCH-ianity has founded numerous false doctrines, according to their solidified denominational position, all because they have not digested the truth of what Gabriel described in Dan. 8.
In my recent post # 109, please re-read the post I referred to in another thread.
Who WAS that "little horn"?
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tailgator
Well-Known Member
I've already said what the little horn is.It has already been established.
Same beast that persecutes the saints in revelation 13.The persecution begins when the host is given to the little horn.The host in Daniel 8 is the second beast of revelation 13.The host is the king of the norths armed forces in Daniel 11.The United states armed forces for anyone who has been paying attention to prophecy.If you have not been paying attention ,then you would not know who the beast is,the king of the north or any of the prophecies that have already been fulfilled concerning the United states or Israel.
Earburner
Well-Known Member
You have gone way out into the far future of church-ianity's false interpretations about Daniel.
Daniel was for Israel past, as Revelation is for the NT. Church future.
So then, let's get back to Daniel, for the IDENTITY and answer of who the "little horn WAS, in Daniel 8. (See my ref. In post #109)
As for today, the US is the "another beast", having two horns [2HB] of Rev. 13:11-18, who is entwined with the evolved "10HB" and the current "Image of the 10HB".
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tailgator
Well-Known Member
Revelation is given to the church to better understand the prophecies concerning the time of the end which the prophets also prophecied of.
The little horn who speaks great words against the most high and persecutes the saints for 42 months in Daniel 7 is the same beast that blasphemes God and persecutes the saints for 42 months in revelation.They are one and the same.
Daniel 7
25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.
Revelation 13
5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
You just lack the common sense to know that they are he same .Someone taught you the time of the end was in 164 bc as and you believed them.
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Earburner
Well-Known Member
Nope, too far into the future!!
Back up to 175-164 BC.
Who WAS THAT "little horn" in Dan. 8:8-9?
[8].....the great horn [Alex the Great [356-323 BC] was broken; and FOR IT came up FOUR notable ones toward the four winds of heaven.
[9] And OUT OF ONE of them [four] came forth a "little horn",
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
Well after 50 years of study, teaching bible college, churches, small groups, sunday schools, radio and TV I think I have learned something.
My problem is I cannot accept teh redefined word of God according to tailgator.
You love making many metaphors, based on you rown opinions or the teaching of other allegorists.
I see the fourth beast going through many stages and history has proven it out!
YOu forget that the ten kings are going to give allegiance to the antichrist. the bible calls him a man, you call him Israel the nation or part of it.
Yet you forget that the ten kings will give their allegiance to the antichrist, which no Muslim nation would ever do!
The antichrist does lying signs and wonders, so yo uhave the nation of Israel performing all sorts of lying miracles.
YOu have the false prophet commanding all to swear full allegiance o to this Israel and take Israels mark which is 666 or the number of HIS name! Extremely difficult to do if it is a partial or full nation.
But I will match biblical knowledge with you any day any time.
tailgator
Well-Known Member
Dan 8 is speaking of the same little horn as Daniel 7.-Israel.
A host will be given to the little horn as Daniel 8 says.
Daniel 8:12
And an host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practised, and prospered.
According to Daniel 11:31 ,the host given to the little horn is the king of the norths armed forces.
Daniel 11:31
His armed forces will rise up to desecrate the temple fortress and will abolish the daily sacrifice. Then they will set up the abomination that causes desolation.
This is when the saints are killed for a time,times and a half (42 months)untill the time of the end.
Daniel 11:33-35
Wise leaders will give instruction to many, but these teachers will die by fire and sword, or they will be jailed and robbed.
During these persecutions, little help will arrive, and many who join them will not be sincere.
And some of the wise will fall victim to persecution. In this way, they will be refined and cleansed and made pure until the time of the end, for the appointed time is still to come.
Oh,that's right you believe the appointed time of the end was in 164 bc.You also believe the dead were raised in 164 bc as Daniel says takes place at the time of the end in Daniel 12:1-2?
tailgator
Well-Known Member
My My,you have the credentials of a true Pharisee.Lets praise God who rejects people like yourself and reveals his word to babes.
Mathew 11:25
At that time Jesus said, “I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children.
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