When was the A.O.D fulfilled?

[Jude Thaddeus]

Well, the Bible does say "have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them" which is what I do concerning the papacy.

Which papacy? The few corrupt popes centuries ago that never taught anything? That mean nothing in todays world? Some set of future pope(s) that you and your sect strain to fulfil false prophecies that are laughable to anyone with an education? Anyone with a modicum of education and 2 functioning brain cells is aware that the Catholic Church feeds, clothes, provides free medical care, educates, and houses more people than any charity in the world.

Why don't you name any, ANY, official church teaching that was ratified by a pagan emperor. You can't, because none exists. So you propagate the "Catholic Roman Empire Church", a sheer myth you are forced to support by taking every and any line written by a Catholic from any time in history. What a joke. They mean nothing to today's practicing Catholics. Why don't you mock anything from Vatican II documents??? Because it takes too much reading?? Your "official looking documentation" is stupid and absurd. Have you ever heard of the Commandment "Thou shalt not bear false witness"???
"unfruitful works of darkness" is hate speech, PERIOD.

About 1000 Bible Students were killed in the Holocaust, but not a single SDA member was. Why? Because Hitler liked what they were preaching about the pope. Please, don't reply to any more of my posts, I ran out of Gravol.

 

[Phoneman777]

Nonsense! You are constantly making scripture say what you want it to say. You are ignoring what Jesus Himself said!

John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

Where did Elijah go, then? Or Enoch? Or Moses, when he left the Mount?

Jesus, obviously, was talking about "ascend to heaven clothed in mortality".

No one has ascended bodily to heaven except for Jesus. That includes Moses and, yes, even Elijah! Elijah did not ascend to the third heaven (paradise) where Jesus is now. It must be talking about him ascending to either the first or second heaven.

Do I have to explain everything?

"First heaven" = "the birds of the heavens".
"Second heaven" - "the starry host of heavens"
"Third heaven" = "'God's sanctuary in heaven"

That is clearly the context of 1st Corinthians 15:20-23. Paul is talking about the resurrection of the dead in Christ there, right? If you continue reading in 1st Corinthians 15 you see that when the dead in Christ are resurrected they will be changed to have immmortal bodies (1 Cor 15:50-54). So, that is why it should be clear of what the context of 1 Cor 15:20-23 is. And, again, Jesus Himself said that no one had ascended bodily to heaven except for Him (John 3:13).

Elijah,Enoch and Moses have immortal bodies b/c Paul says nobody is "is present with the Lord" without it.
OT resurrections prove that the "order" of resurrection is "hierarchical" - not "sequential".

Where?

In 2 Corinthians 5, where no thinking person would is satisfied with the notion that Paul's extreme concern and earnest desire to not be found "naked" and "unclothed" was mere "reluctance to be a disembodied soul surrounded by the unlimited joys of heaven awaiting an immortal body".

The only justification for it is that he knew no one's going up there unless clothed in immortality down here.

Are you sure he isn't talking figuratively like it does here when talking about people in heaven having on "fine linen":

Revelation 19:7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready. 8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

Notice here that it talks about Christ's bride being in heaven and ready for the marriage to take place and it says she "was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen" with the "fine linen" symbolically representing "the righteousness of saints" rather than being literal fine linen or a literal covering for their souls and spirits of any kind.

You think?

Ah, I see that you can't believe anything unless it is said explicitly. If it isn't spelled out for you, then it can't be true, right? Why is it that you believe that people have no consciousness after their physical death then? There certainly is no scripture which explicitly teaches that.

Solomon says "The living know that they shall die, but the dead know not anything."

Know what else?

Those who've never existed are better off than those who've died...which makes zero sense if the dead go straight to heaven and are now enjoying an eternity of joy and bliss, right or wrong?

You continue to make Paul out to be a fool when he said the whole of a person is made up of body, soul and spirit (1 Thess 5:23). You should have more respect for Paul than this.

Your wholesale disregard for Genesis 2:7 KJV in your interpretation of 1 Thess. 5:23 KJV is why you wrongly interpret it.

 

[Phoneman777]

Which papacy? The few corrupt popes centuries ago that never taught anything? That mean nothing in todays world? Some set of future pope(s) that you and your sect strain to fulfil false prophecies that are laughable to anyone with an education? Anyone with a modicum of education and 2 functioning brain cells is aware that the Catholic Church feeds, clothes, provides free medical care, educates, and houses more people than any charity in the world.

Why don't you name any, ANY, official church teaching that was ratified by a pagan emperor. You can't, because none exists. So you propagate the "Catholic Roman Empire Church", a sheer myth you are forced to support by taking every and any line written by a Catholic from any time in history. What a joke. They mean nothing to today's practicing Catholics. Why don't you mock anything from Vatican II documents??? Because it takes too much reading?? Your "official looking documentation" is stupid and absurd. Have you ever heard of the Commandment "Thou shalt not bear false witness"???
"unfruitful works of darkness" is hate speech, PERIOD.

About 1000 Bible Students were killed in the Holocaust, but not a single SDA member was. Why? Because Hitler liked what they were preaching about the pope. Please, don't reply to any more of my posts, I ran out of Gravol.

Do you consider the inscription on the coin that the papacy had struck to commemorate the slaughter of 100,000 French Huguenots "hate speech"?

The Whore of Babylon will soon be burnt with fire and those who refuse to "come out of her, My people" will burn along with her, according to Revelation 18 and 19. Come out from her, bro.

 

[IndianaRob]

Where did Elijah go, then? Or Enoch? Or Moses, when he left the Mount?

Jesus, obviously, was talking about "ascend to heaven clothed in mortality".

Do I have to explain everything?

"First heaven" = "the birds of the heavens".
"Second heaven" - "the starry host of heavens"
"Third heaven" = "'God's sanctuary in heaven"

Elijah,Enoch and Moses have immortal bodies b/c Paul says nobody is "is present with the Lord" without it.
OT resurrections prove that the "order" of resurrection is "hierarchical" - not "sequential".

In 2 Corinthians 5, where no thinking person would is satisfied with the notion that Paul's extreme concern and earnest desire to not be found "naked" and "unclothed" was mere "reluctance to be a disembodied soul surrounded by the unlimited joys of heaven awaiting an immortal body".

The only justification for it is that he knew no one's going up there unless clothed in immortality down here.

You think?

Solomon says "The living know that they shall die, but the dead know not anything."

Know what else?

Those who've never existed are better off than those who've died...which makes zero sense if the dead go straight to heaven and are now enjoying an eternity of joy and bliss, right or wrong?

Your wholesale disregard for Genesis 2:7 KJV in your interpretation of 1 Thess. 5:23 KJV is disgraceful - but expected from fools and "Bible scholars" foolish enough to believe God lied and the Serpent told the truth.

Elijah,Enoch and Moses went to Abraham’s bosom because Christ had not made the way to the heaven where God is. When Christ came they were raised and ascending with Him.

 

[Douggg]

According to Genesis 2:7 KJV, man was not given a Soul - man is a Soul...understand? To say "a Soul has a Soul" is as ridiculous as saying "a car has a car" or "a TV has a TV".

Actually, I think a person could apply that "man is a soul" and that "man has a soul". Depending on the circumstance which the term "soul" is being used.

man has a soul...
Mark 8:36 For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?
37 Or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?

usually when meaning a man has a soul, the word soul is preceded by a possessive pronoun - like "his" or "my".

man is a soul....
Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

 

[rwb]

Actually, I think a person could apply that "man is a soul" and that "man has a soul". Depending on the circumstance which the term "soul" is being used.

man has soul...
Mark 8:36 For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?
37 Or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?

usually when meaning a man has a soul, the word soul is preceded by a possessive pronoun - like "his" or "my".

man is a soul....
Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Soul is defined as breath, meaning possesses life through mind & heart, spirit! Wherever life, whether physical or spiritual life is found it is called a living soul. That's how John saw 'souls' alive in heaven after they had been martyred for their faith. They are the spiritual body of Christ in heaven having died in faith.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

According to Genesis 2:7 KJV, man was not given a Soul - man is a Soul...understand?

There is more than one definition for the word "soul", as I've shown you. Understand? A person or human being can be called a soul. Those are synonyms. But, scripture teaches that a person has a body, soul and spirit (1 Thess 5:23). Why don't you tell me again your analogy you used to explain 1 Thess 5:23.

 

[Timtofly]

I didn’t say the destruction of the Temple was a part of the 70 week prophecy.

Then there were 2 different events.

You have more than one AoD that you have invented. One about Jesus, and the other about Jerusalem.

 

[Timtofly]

You've been set up.

By Darby and Scofield.

Again.

As usual.

No, you have not even followed your own historical account, but just make things up to sound smart.

Your early church fathers agree that they fled in 66AD, not 70AD.

No one fled in 70AD. So your AoD, the "armies" were set up in 66AD, not 70AD. But they were already set up by Pilate in 26/27 AD, and removed. So they all fled because of your defined AoD before Jesus was even crucified. You have people constantly fleeing for decades every time they saw a Roman soldier standing in Jerusalem.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Where did Elijah go, then? Or Enoch? Or Moses, when he left the Mount?

Jesus, obviously, was talking about "ascend to heaven clothed in mortality".

No, He was not. Why would He bother saying that when it's obviously impossible for that to happen? No, He was saying that only He has ascended there bodily since only He has an immortal body so far. Next in order, according to Paul, are those who belong to Christ at His second coming. You do not accept what Paul taught in 1 Corinthians 15:22-23.

Do I have to explain everything?

No, I have to explain everything to you, obviously. And it's exhausting.

"First heaven" = "the birds of the heavens".
"Second heaven" - "the starry host of heavens"
"Third heaven" = "'God's sanctuary in heaven"

Elijah,Enoch and Moses have immortal bodies b/c Paul says nobody is "is present with the Lord" without it.

No, Paul does not say that. He only says we look forward to having immortal bodies. He said to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord, so that clearly means you don't need to have a body to be present with the Lord. There's no other way to understand what he said.

OT resurrections prove that the "order" of resurrection is "hierarchical" - not "sequential".

There was no OT resurrection to bodily immortality before Christ's or else Paul would have mentioned it when giving the order of bodily resurrections unto bodily immortality in 1 Corinthians 15:22-23. Also, you don't even understand that it was Christ's bodily resurrection to immortality that made it possible for others to be resurrected unto bodily immortality.

You clearly are only interested in cherry picking scriptures that you make say what you want them to say while ignoring or butchering other scriptures that refute your doctrine like 1 Corinthians 15:22-23 and Luke 16:19-31.

Solomon says "The living know that they shall die, but the dead know not anything."

Do you just ignore it when I explain what that verse means? He said the dead know not anything "UNDER THE SUN". Do you know what "under the sun" means? It's talking about when someone is alive on the earth. All that means is that they will never get a chance to live on the earth "under the sun" again. It says nothing one way or another about the status of their souls and spirits after they physically die.

Know what else?

Those who've never existed are better off than those who've died...which makes zero sense if the dead go straight to heaven and are now enjoying an eternity of joy and bliss, right or wrong?

I don't know what you're talking about here. Surely, those who've never existed are not better off than those who are in heaven with Jesus.

Your wholesale disregard for Genesis 2:7 KJV in your interpretation of 1 Thess. 5:23 KJV is why you wrongly interpret it.

LOL!!! This is truly hilarious. It's the other way around. You disregard 1 Thess 5:23 in your interpretation of Genesis 2:7. What God breathed into Adam was his soul and spirit. Obviously. Paul knew what he was talking about when he said the whole person consists of body, soul and spirit.

 

[covenantee]

No, you have not even followed your own historical account, but just make things up to sound smart.

Your early church fathers agree that they fled in 66AD, not 70AD.

No one fled in 70AD. So your AoD, the "armies" were set up in 66AD, not 70AD. But they were already set up by Pilate in 26/27 AD, and removed. So they all fled because of your defined AoD before Jesus was even crucified. You have people constantly fleeing for decades every time they saw a Roman soldier standing in Jerusalem.

What happened to "set up"? I don't see it. You haven't even followed your own fallacy.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Soul is defined as breath, meaning possesses life through mind & heart, spirit! Wherever life, whether physical or spiritual life is found it is called a living soul. That's how John saw 'souls' alive in heaven after they had been martyred for their faith. They are the spiritual body of Christ in heaven having died in faith.

There is more than one definition for the word "soul". Paul taught that a person, who can also be called a soul, is made up of body, soul and spirit.

1 Thessalonians 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

The word "soul" can refer to a person/human being and also to the part of a person called the soul. John said he saw the souls OF THEM who were physically dead (Rev 6:9, Rev 20:4). That shows that he saw a part of them called the soul. It doesn't say he "saw souls that were slain", it says "he saw THE souls OF THEM that were slain" (Rev 6:9).

 

[Timtofly]

what????

the stones concerned the stones of the city or temple.. Not mountains And it was fulfilled in 70AD

I agree, this will happen when he returns

The Flood brought division to the earth. The baptism of fire will destroy the works of man, but will unite the earth back into a state without division.

When Jesus returns to the Mount of Olives is when the mountains and continents/islands are moved out of their places per the 6th Seal. That did not happen in the first century.

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

Then there were 2 different events.

You have more than one AoD that you have invented. One about Jesus, and the other about Jerusalem.

There is only one AOD event that was prophesied about the destruction of the Temple and surrounding buildings Jesus and the apostles were looking at with THEIR OWN EYES!

 

[Timtofly]

I don’t know the actual length of time. I know it’s a little season, just like everyone else, because that’s what Revelation 6:11 says.

We can’t be certain of the actual date the question was asked but we know it had to be prior to the book of Revelation being written, or published.


So the brethren and fellow servants that killed after the souls under the altar get their white robes are just out of luck? No white robes for them?

Who are these people that don’t get the white robes? They can’t be the bride because she gets fine linen, clean and white in Revelation 19:8 and they can’t be part of the great tribulation crowd because they are arrayed in white robes in Revelation 7:13.

Who are the brethren and fellow servants that are killed but don’t get white robes?


As I said before, we aren’t going to be asking questions we already know the answer to. Now we know in part; but then shall we know even as also we are known.

Are you anticipating that once you die you will be asking Jesus what city He was born in? You know, a rhetorical question, maybe just for fun, to see what Jesus will say?

The alter and being slain is symbolism. It is not about martyrdom. Being slain is being removed from Adam's dead corruptible flesh.

What does not being part of the church have to do with luck?

You are unlucky to be caught in the belief there is no Day of the Lord where Jesus reigns in Jerusalem as the King of the entire earth for a thousand years.

Those removed from Adam's dead corruptible flesh is what the church glorified is waiting for.

But those firstfruits from the final harvest live on the earth for "eternity", and are not part of those gathered called the "church".

No verse states all are glorified in the NHNE. Revelation 21 says the kings of the earth have glory.

"And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it. And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there. And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it."

If that means they are glorified, it is after the Day of the Lord, not prior to that Day as a full restoration given to the church, at the Second Coming. The final harvest is after the Second Coming, because that is what the glorified church is waiting for, that final harvest where souls are removed/slain out of Adam's dead corruptible flesh.

 

[Phoneman777]

Elijah,Enoch and Moses went to Abraham’s bosom because Christ had not made the way to the heaven where God is. When Christ came they were raised and ascending with Him.

Verse 23 qualifies verse 22 by saying the Rich Man saw Lazarus "in his bosom" - the man's own bosom between his shoulders - which is physiological, not geographical - right?

So, the only way to conclude "Abraham's bosom" is a geographically located "subterranean chamber" is to ignore verse 23, as most seem to do. What the Rich Man saw was Abraham holding Lazarus close to him, comforting him "in his bosom" - all of which is a symbolic, of course.

 

[Phoneman777]

Actually, I think a person could apply that "man is a soul" and that "man has a soul". Depending on the circumstance which the term "soul" is being used.

In what circumstance do statements like "a car has a car" and "a TV has a TV" be applicable?

man has a soul...
Mark 8:36 For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?
37 Or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?

Here, the word "soul" remains defined as the "whole of man" - not a "part of man". The word "nephesh" means "life" - not a disembodied ghost that flies off at death.

usually when meaning a man has a soul, the word soul is preceded by a possessive pronoun - like "his" or "my".

In these cases, it means "his life" or "my life" - not a disembodied ghost.

man is a soul....
Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Correct! Man was not given a soul nor is he comprised of a soul - man IS a soul.

 

[Timtofly]

So you believe the last trump sounded when Jesus said it is done and you are now immortal?


How does it feel to be immortal?
It hadn't happened to me yet.


1 corinth 15:51

51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

The church leaves at the 5th Seal. No such thing as an immortal body in Scripture.

Do you enjoy swapping Greek and Roman mythology into your theology?

The OT redeemed came out of their graves in permanent incorruptible physical bodies, the same as Lazarus. You get a permanent incorruptible physical body when your soul enters Paradise.


Only those alive at the Second Coming have to wait, so no, no one gets a permanent incorruptible physical body, until the soul leaves Adam's dead corruptible flesh.

Only those alive in Adam's dead corruptible flesh have to wait for that Trumpet sound.

 

[Phoneman777]

There is more than one definition for the word "soul", as I've shown you.

You've shown nothing, friend. While Genesis 2:7 KJV does not allow the "soul" to be defined as anything but the "whole of man" - every other verse you appeal to for "proof otherwise" is an inflexible subjective interpretation.

Understand? A person or human being can be called a soul. Those are synonyms. But, scripture teaches that a person has a body, soul and spirit (1 Thess 5:23). Why don't you tell me again your analogy you used to explain 1 Thess 5:23.

Again, your argument is based on a gratuitous inflexible subjective interpretation which demands "soul" be a "part" of man rather than the "whole" of man. Verse 23 means "life" - Paul simply is praying that our whole "life" be preserved along with our spirit and body.

 

[IndianaRob]

Verse 23 qualifies verse 22 by saying the Rich Man saw Lazarus "in his bosom" - the man's own bosom between his shoulders - which is physiological, not geographical - right?

So, the only way to conclude "Abraham's bosom" is a geographically located "subterranean chamber" is to ignore verse 23, as most seem to do. What the Rich Man saw was Abraham holding Lazarus close to him, comforting him "in his bosom" - all of which is a symbolic, of course.

I’m aware of that view but I can’t remember anybody tying that to verse 26. How do you reconcile it?

Luk 16:26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.