When was the A.O.D fulfilled?

[IndianaRob]

The only people I've read about being punished the day Jesus died were two men on either side of him who were crucified at the same time .

I haven't read of anyone else being punished at that time.

Read Psalm 18. Psalm 18 gives many details of what God did when Jesus was crucified.

 

[tailgator]

Read Psalm 18. Psalm 18 gives many details of what God did when Jesus was crucified.

Not really.
The details of Jesus death is found in the gospel.


There were two other men who died on either side of him.Thats about it.Not a lot of people being killed that day.

 

[IndianaRob]

Not really.
The details of Jesus death is found in the gospel.


There were two other men who died on either side of him.

Very little details are given in the gospels. The Bible never gives all the details of any subject in just the Old Testament or the New Testament.

The word of the LORD is always precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little.

 

[Douggg]

Do you actually think you are going to convince anyone to agree with your ridiculous belief that the seventh trumpet starts sounding even before the fifth and sixth trumpets sound? LOL! Doug, you are so incredibly dishonest in your treatment of scripture. You have the order of trumpts as 1, 2, 3, 4, 7, 5, 6. Do you do something like this with the seals, also? I don't think so. Why not? Do you do something like this with the vials, also? I don't think so. Why not?

To think that every reference to the word "woe" has to refer to one of the three woes (fifth, sixth and seventh trumpets) is ridiculous. You are constantly trying to relate unrelated scriptures. You have no choice but to do that since your doctrine is based on making scripture say what you want it to say.

Which trumpet does this verse refer to, Douggg?

Matthew 24:19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!

As I have told you many times before, Satan was cast out of heaven long ago, so there is no chance that Revelation 12:12-14 has any relation to any of the woes that relate to the fifth, sixth and seventh trumpets.

Also, Revelation 12 is not a continuation of the description of the seventh trumpet, so why would you think anything in Revelation 12 relates directly to the seventh trumpet? Revelation 12 starts out by going all the way back to the birth of Christ. So, acting as if it's a description of the seventh trumpet is ludicrous. The description of what will happen when the seventh trumpet sounds is only found in Revelation 11:15-18.

Any time someone resorts to doing something completely dishonest, illogical, unreasonable and just plain stupid as putting the seventh trumpet before the fifth and sixth trumpets, it can't be taken seriously.

You did not answer the question...

Relative to Jesus's Second Coming, when does the time, times, half time that Satan will have left - take place ?

The question is not when Satan was cast out of the third heaven.

 

[tailgator]

Very little details are given in the gospels. The Bible never gives all the details of any subject in just the Old Testament or the New Testament.

The word of the LORD is always precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little.

There were plenty of details of Jesus death in the gospel.The apostles did a fine job of reporting the news.

 

[IndianaRob]

There were plenty of details of Jesus death in the gospel.The apostles did a fine job of reporting the news.

I don’t understand, are you saying that Psalm 18 doesn’t give details of the crucifixtion?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

You did not answer the question...

Yes, I did. Did you read anything I said? Why aren't you addressing anything I said? I told you that Satan was cast out of heaven long ago, as I've told you several times before and I have told you several times that I believe He was cast out of heaven when Jesus died and rose again. So, why doesn't that answer your question?

Relative to Jesus's Second Coming, when does the time, times, half time that Satan will have left - take place ?

It began when Jesus died and was resurrected.

Revelation 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

Satan was cast out at the same time when salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ came. When was that?

Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

There it is. If "salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ" had not yet come before Paul wrote that then what he said would not be true. Revelation 12:10 very clearly refers to the gospel of Christ which first started being preached after His death and resurrection.

Satan being cast out of heaven also corresponds with him no longer being able to accuse believers before God in heaven anymore. He most certainly is not doing that now and has not being doing that since Christ's death and resurrection.

Romans 8:31 What, then, shall we say in response to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? 32 He who did not spare his own Son, but gave him up for us all—how will he not also, along with him, graciously give us all things? 33 Who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen? It is God who justifies. 34 Who then is the one who condemns? No one. Christ Jesus who died—more than that, who was raised to life—is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us.

Who can bring any charge/accusation against God's chosen now? No one. Including Satan. Why? Because our sins are forgiven and covered by the blood of Christ. What does he have to accuse us of? Nothing. He can't accuse us of sins that are forgiven and covered. Only in OT times could he do that because Christ's blood had not yet covered the sins of His people.

The question is not when Satan was cast out of the third heaven.

Here you are trying to make scripture say what you want it to say again. It is most certainly talking about Satan being banished from the third heaven. Even after he originally fell he still had access to the third heaven as the book of Job indicates. So, please stop this nonsense. Every time your interpretations are refuted you dream up knew ways to try to keep your doctrine afloat. That is dishonest and shameful how you are constantly twisting scripture to make it say what you want it to say.

 

[Douggg]

Yes, I did. Did you read anything I said? Why aren't you addressing anything I said? I told you that Satan was cast out of heaven long ago, as I've told you several times before and I have told you several times that I believe He was cast out of heaven when Jesus died and rose again. So, why doesn't that answer your question?

You did not address when the time frame that Satan will have left of a time, times, half time will take place, relative to Jesus's Second Coming.

In Revelation 12:12, Satan is cast down to earth, having great wrath, knowing his time is short. In Revelation 12:14, that time frame is revealed as being a time, times, half time.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Satan is still roaming the earth like a lion, seeking whom he can devour. So Satan's time was not over following Jesus's resurrection.

 

[tailgator]

I don’t understand, are you saying that Psalm 18 doesn’t give details of the crucifixtion?

Psalms 22 gives a good account of the crucification but the gospel is still far greater account.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

You did not address when the time frame that Satan will have left of a time, times, half time will take place, relative to Jesus's Second Coming.

Doug. Goodness sakes. For one thing I've already told you this before multiple times. Do you not remember anything people tell you? Obviously, I believe it began when Christ was resurrected as I said. And that time goes right up until His second coming. I believe the "time, times, and half a time" is symbolic. If a literal time period was meant there then it would have been written literally. Based on a 360 day year the references to "a time, times and half a time", "1260 days" and "42 months" are all half of seven years if you base it on 360 day years. In the book of Revelation the number seven symbolically represents completeness.

Revelation 5:6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.

We know that there is only one Holy Spirit of God, not seven, but this symbolically describes the Holy Spirit as the "seven horns and seven eyes" of the Lamb, which obviously represents Jesus. You miss the symbolism in the book of Revelation. The book was purposely "signified" (Revelation 1:1). To take a literal approach to that highly symbolic book is not wise.

So, those references refer to part of history, but not all of it. They refer to what John called "the last time" (1 John 2:18) and what Peter, via Joel, called "the last days" (Acts 2:16-21). It's the time since the first coming of Christ up to the second coming of Christ.

In Revelation 12:12, Satan is cast down to earth, having great wrath, knowing his time is short. In Revelation 12:14, that time frame is revealed as being a time, times, half time.

Doug, do you ever bother to dig deeper than the surface to study scripture? It doesn't seem like it. The Greek word translated as "short" there is "oligos" and it does not refer to a literally small number.

It's used in this verse:

Matthew 22:14 For many are called, but few (oligos) are chosen.

Are there literally few people who are chosen? No. The number of chosen is described as "a great multitude" in Revelation 7:9. So, the word is used to refer to there being relatively few chosen in relation to the many who are called. So, the "short time" that Satan was given is not referring to a literally short time, but rather to a limited amount of time that he was given. What does Revelation 12:17 say that he does during that time? He persecutes Christians. He has been doing that for almost 2,000 years now!

Satan is still roaming the earth like a lion, seeking whom he can devour. So Satan's time was not over following Jesus's resurrection.

What?! When did I say it was over following Jesus's resurrection? I didn't. You have a very serious reading comprehension problem. I'm saying it BEGAN at that time and goes up to Christ's second coming. Good grief, Douggg.

Notice how I responded to all of your points while you respond to only one of mine even though I made other points that you didn't bother addressing. This discussion is very one sided. Why is it that you don't address most of my points?

 

[IndianaRob]

Psalms 22 gives a good account of the crucification but the gospel is still far greater account.

Like I said before, here a little there a little. You have to read all of the accounts in the bible to get the full picture of what happened at the cross.

 

[Timtofly]

3 books he said not one stone will be left standing

Did jesus mislead us?

Matthew 24:2
And Jesus said to them, “Do you notsee all these things? Assuredly, I say to you, not one stone shall be left here upon another, that shall not be thrown down

Mark 13:2
And Jesus answered and said to him, “Do you see these great buildings? Not one stone shall be left upon another, that shall not be thrown down.”

Luke 21:6
“These things which you see—the days will come in which not onestone shall be left upon another that shall not be thrown down

I am not sure what your talking about in Luke 19

Jerusalem was left desolate. The prophecy of no stone left on each other will be fulfilled at the Second Coming, the 6th Seal.

That is when all the mountains and continents are moved out of their places.

"And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places."

Zechariah 14

"And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south."

"All the land shall be turned as a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem: and it shall be lifted up, and inhabited in her place, from Benjamin's gate unto the place of the first gate, unto the corner gate, and from the tower of Hananeel unto the king's winepresses. And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited."

Jesus said the Temple would be destroyed. It was. Jesus said one day nothing would be left of Jerusalem. That has not happened yet, as Jerusalem was eventually rebuilt on top of stones that were left and not removed since Solomon's time.

At the Second Coming, what is there now, will all be done away with, nothing left of the old city. It will be a totally different Jerusalem:

"And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited."

There may be a final earthquake after Satan's 42 months, but the new Jerusalem will never be changed for the next 1,000 years. That is what Jesus was telling us, as the fulfillment of Zechariah.

 

[Timtofly]

They are not 2 different events, all the gospel accounts agree. Jesus was talking about the Destruction of the Temple both He and the apostles were looking at with THEIR OWN EYES!

70AD was not even part of the 70 weeks. Why do you have a 40 year split, and then complain when people mention a 2,000 year split? A split is still a split, no matter the length.

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

70AD was not even part of the 70 weeks. Why do you have a 40 year split, and then complain when people mention a 2,000 year split? A split is still a split, no matter the length.

I didn’t say the destruction of the Temple was a part of the 70 week prophecy.

 

[Timtofly]

For those who interpret Scripture with Scripture, Luke 21:20 identifies the abomination of desolation.

It was the Roman armies.

The Judaean Christians recognized it and fled and survived.

Because not one of them was a dispensational futurist.

The AoD was set up in 66AD, when the armies came and left, and all fled? Because that was when they were told to flee, in 66A. None of them were historist preterist, who came back a few years later and were killed in 70AD.

 

[covenantee]

The AoD was set up in 66AD, when the armies came and left, and all fled? Because that was when they were told to flee, in 66A. None of them were historist preterist, who came back a few years later and were killed in 70AD.

You've been set up.

By Darby and Scofield.

Again.

As usual.

 

[Timtofly]

What some do to try to get around this is that they acknowledge that Jesus talks about both the destruction of the temple and His future coming in Luke 21, but try to say that only His answer to the question about His coming and the end of the age is recorded in Matthew 24 and Mark 13. If that was the case, why don't both Matthew 24 and Mark 13 only record the question about His coming and the end of the age while leaving out the first question? But, they don't. The first question is there. So, to think that His answer to that question isn't recorded anywhere in Matthew 24 and Mark 13 is completely ridiculous.

This is not an accurate nor honest assessment. Luke 21 was given to all listening in the Temple that day. None of those at the Temple asked about the return of Jesus. Yet Jesus told them that He would be returning. If your argument is based on how Jesus answered you are being disingenuous. We don't "try to get around this" as you suggest.

Jesus gave them at the temple an explanation of His return in addition to their question. Jesus did not have to repeat Himself on the mount about the destruction of Jerusalem. They had heard about that many times as they were with Him at all times.

From the historical perspective, there was no AoD in 70AD. So why are you forcing one into 70AD?

Then you have to add to Scripture that there are several types of tribulation, so one type was great then, and another type great in the future. That is not what Jesus said, nor inferred. Then you accuse others of trying to get around Scripture, when you turn around and do the same with Scripture and the historical record. Both history and Scripture proves you are wrong in your approach.

The historical record shows that in 70AD Jerusalem was destroyed and left desolate. But that is not proof an AoD was set up, and the daily sacrifice was taken away. The Roman armies encompassing Jerusalem, was an event 3.5 years prior, in 66AD. Also historically, Jerusalem was not the only city leveled to the ground by the Romans, in those 3.5 years, leading up to 70AD, and the years after while the Romans were besieging every last hold out.

"And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh. Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto. For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled."

They were to flee from Jerusalem in 66AD, and no one was to ever return again, because the days of vengeance would lay the whole area desolate. The AoD is not about vengeance. The AoD was about control of Jerusalem by an individual who would rule over the world in a spirit of desolation.

"When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place."

How could they see an AoD in 70AD, if they were to flee and never return in 66AD?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Yeah, I would love to live a sin free life to glorify Him and show perfect gratitude.

But for all of us who are not deceived in to thinking we no longer sin, We rejoice in HIs mercy, grace and promise to keep cleansing us until we reach perfection.

Hebrews 10:14
For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

Because "sanctified" is the present passive participle, it is best translated "them that are being sanctified".

Amen,

And I love how you quoted the KJB and corrected it. (the NKJV has it correct)

Hebrews 10:14
For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified.

Its an ongoing thing!! although our perfection is a completed thing "Perfect, active, indicative"

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Yes you were as I was. but you are clueless as to what that actually means.

If he think that means he has no sin, then as John says, He is deceived (1 john 1: 8) and there is no truth in him

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I read everyone of them and I saw NOTHING having to do with the Antichrist being Roman. Please post any verse that shows he is a Roman.

Well then I guess you think the 4th and final beast is someone else?

There is nothing in scripture that says that the Antichrist is a Roman.

I showed you multipl passages.

This is getting old.

The Antichrist is a King of the North. The king of the North is not the Roman empire.

Daniel 11
15 So the king of the north shall come, and cast up a mount, and take the most fenced cities: and the arms of the south shall not withstand, neither his chosen people, neither shall there be any strength to withstand.

Daniel 11
21 And in his estate shall stand up a vile person, to whom they shall not give the honour of the kingdom: but he shall come in peaceably, and obtain the kingdom by flatteries.


I see nothing in scripture that says the Romans are the last kingdom.

Daniel 2. and Daniel 78 and Daniel 9.

dude, if you are not willing to read the text. and want to keep harping the same nonsense over and over, I will finish our dialog. because there is nothing either of us can say to convince the other.

Who was the first ruler of the world? Nimrod.

The first ruler of Daniels kingdoms was nebachadnezzar.

The first king who ruled over the nation of Israel was the Pharaoh of Egypt.

Who at his death..........by the mortal wound of the sword..........is claimed to be the sun. Nimrod.

The Pharoah of Egypt was Ra, the sun. Or in a different period, Osiris the sun. The Pharoah was God on earth.

Marduk of Assryia was the sun god. Assur was Nimrod

Who was Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon? He was God on earth and claimed to be the reincarnation of Nimrod

Who was the false god of the media Persian empire. Zoroaster who is Nimrod.

Who was God on earth in the Greek empire. Alexander the Great.

Who is God on earth in the Roman empire. The Pope, the Vicar of Christ. Nothing in the Bible about a person being God on earth. But you can alway find the sun.

When Hitler attempted to take over the world he used the ancient sun sign.

wow. You are really out there. read any good book lately?

The final kingdom will be a world government with the rider on the white horse as the leader. He does not lead the Roman empire. The rider on the white horse is given the stephanos crown, the symbol of the UN.

lol. Ok whatever. I am walking away..