When was the A.O.D fulfilled?

[IndianaRob]

lol

Ab abomination which makes desolate

An idol or unclean thing placed in a holy place rendering it unclean

Look it up in any old greek text or lexicon.

I just don't understand that logic. God is done with the physical temple, animal sacrifices and the Jews as a nation. Even if the Jews were to profane the name of Jesus and build a blasphemous temple and call it the temple of their God, why would anybody care if an idol gets put into a temple that is nothing but an idol itself?

 

[tailgator]

I'm sure they didn't flee, I don't think they knew what the abomination of desolation was any more than people today don't know what it is. But I can guarantee you they ran for cover when Psalm 18 was fulfilled.

The people in judea flee when they see the abomination of desolation.

No one fled when Jesus died

 

[IndianaRob]

The people in judea flee when they see the abomination of desolation.

No one fled when Jesus died

I see verses in the bible that tells them to flee but I don't know any verses that say they would heed the warning. I just don't see it.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I just don't understand that logic. God is done with the physical temple, animal sacrifices and the Jews as a nation. Even if the Jews were to profane the name of Jesus and build a blasphemous temple and call it the temple of their God, why would anybody care if an idol gets put into a temple that is nothing but an idol itself?

You do not understand prophecy

Prophecy is god telling us what will happen.

If God says it will happen, it will

you and I agreeing with God does not matter,

 

[tailgator]

I see verses in the bible that tells them to flee but I don't know any verses that say they would heed the warning. I just don't see it.

It is if you know when it happens.
The abomination of desolation was not placed in Jerusalem when Jesus died.It is placed in Jerusalem on the day of the Lord when the heavens burn with a fervent heat.It is at his second advent.

Zech 14

5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I'm going from the prophesies in Psalm 18 and 2 Samuel 22.

I can't imagine that Jesus was not pointing to this prophecy when he told them to head for the hills immediately when they saw the abomination "stand in the holy place".

In addition to whats given in 2 Samuel, Ezekiel's "dry bones" were unearthed and 3 days later they stood up and walked the streets of Jerusalem. I think AD 70 pales in comparison to this.

2 Samuel
Chapter 22

5 When the waves of death compassed me, the floods of ungodly men made me afraid;
6 The sorrows of hell compassed me about; the snares of death prevented me;
7 In my distress I called upon the LORD, and cried to my God: and he did hear my voice out of his temple, and my cry did enter into his ears.
8 Then the earth shook and trembled; the foundations of heaven moved and shook, because he was wroth.
9 There went up a smoke out of his nostrils, and fire out of his mouth devoured: coals were kindled by it.
10 He bowed the heavens also, and came down; and darkness was under his feet.
11 And he rode upon a cherub, and did fly: and he was seen upon the wings of the wind.
12 And he made darkness pavilions round about him, dark waters, and thick clouds of the skies.
13 Through the brightness before him were coals of fire kindled.
14 The LORD thundered from heaven, and the most High uttered his voice.
15 And he sent out arrows, and scattered them; lightning, and discomfited them.
16 And the channels of the sea appeared, the foundations of the world were discovered, at the rebuking of the LORD, at the blast of the breath of his nostrils.
17 He sent from above, he took me; he drew me out of many waters;

I don't understand where you're coming from here. Are you saying when it says "when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, the let those in Judea flee to the mountains" (Luke 21:20), that Jerusalem represents Jesus being surrounded by unbelievers? The context of the Olivet Discourse has nothing to do with that.

What about what it says here:

Mark 13:1 And as he went out of the temple, one of his disciples saith unto him, Master, see what manner of stones and what buildings are here! 2 And Jesus answering said unto him, Seest thou these great buildings? there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down. 3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives over against the temple, Peter and James and John and Andrew asked him privately, 4 Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign when all these things shall be fulfilled?

Jesus had just told the disciples the the great buildings of the temple would be completely destroyed and then they asked him at the mount of Olives: "when shall these things be"? In other words, they were asking when shall the temple buildings be destroyed? Do you think He didn't answer that question? And we know from Matthew 24 that He was also asked about His coming and the end of the age. How would Him talking about His death and resurrection have anything to do with the questions the disciples asked?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

In my opinion the bible teaches only 2 resurrections, the resurrection of the just and the resurrection of the unjust. In Daniel 12:2 MANY but not all of the dead were raised some to everlasting life and some to ever lasting shame and contempt.

Daniel
Chapter 12
2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

Matthew
Chapter 27
50 ¶ Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.
51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;
52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

Where does Matthew 27 say anything about anyone being resurrected to everlasting life or to everlasting shame and contempt? Nowhere. That is not referring to the fulfillment of Daniel 12:2.

Also, the Hebrew word translated as "many" in Daniel 12:2 (raḇ) does not mean "many, but not all". It's referring to the resurrection of all of the dead, the number of which is "many" or "a multitude".

Jesus said that ALL of the dead will be resurrected at generally the same hour/time, so why would you interpret Daniel 12:2 in such a way that would contradict Jesus?

John 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

You can't interpret any verse or passage in scripture without keeping the rest of scripture in mind and without being careful to not contradict any other scripture.

If you want proof that the Hebrew word raḇ does not mean "many, but not all", here are a couple examples where it does not mean that:

Genesis 21:33 And Abraham planted a grove in Beersheba, and called there on the name of the Lord, the everlasting God. 34 And Abraham sojourned in the Philistines' land many (rab) days.

Is this talking about many, but not all of the days that Abraham sojourned in the Philistines' land or is it talking about all of the days that Abraham sojourned in the Philistines' land, of which there were "many"? Clearly, the latter.

Genesis 37:31 And they took Joseph's coat, and killed a kid of the goats, and dipped the coat in the blood; 32 And they sent the coat of many colours, and they brought it to their father; and said, This have we found: know now whether it be thy son's coat or no. 33 And he knew it, and said, It is my son's coat; an evil beast hath devoured him; Joseph is without doubt rent in pieces. 34 And Jacob rent his clothes, and put sackcloth upon his loins, and mourned for his son many (rab) days.

After thinking his son Joseph was dead, is this talking about many, but not all of the days that Jacob mourned or is it talking about all of the days that Jacob mourned, of which there were "many"? Clearly, the latter.

 

[IndianaRob]

I don't understand where you're coming from here. Are you saying when it says "when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, the let those in Judea flee to the mountains" (Luke 21:20), that Jerusalem represents Jesus being surrounded by unbelievers? The context of the Olivet Discourse has nothing to do with that.

Right after the army of Joel 2 runs through Jerusalem, Joel 2:28 happens. According to the book of Acts, Joel 2:28 was fulfilled at Pentecost which means Joel's army had to have ran through Jerusalem before the day of Pentecost. I'm guessing Joel's army happened at the same time Psalm 18 was fulfilled. Psalm 18 was fulfilled when Jesus was crucified.

Joel 2:28 And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:

What about what it says here:

Mark 13:1 And as he went out of the temple, one of his disciples saith unto him, Master, see what manner of stones and what buildings are here! 2 And Jesus answering said unto him, Seest thou these great buildings? there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down. 3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives over against the temple, Peter and James and John and Andrew asked him privately, 4 Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign when all these things shall be fulfilled?

Jesus had just told the disciples the the great buildings of the temple would be completely destroyed and then they asked him at the mount of Olives: "when shall these things be"? In other words, they were asking when shall the temple buildings be destroyed? Do you think He didn't answer that question? And we know from Matthew 24 that He was also asked about His coming and the end of the age. How would Him talking about His death and resurrection have anything to do with the questions the disciples asked?

I'll have to come back to this part later, I'm out of time for today.

 

[Earburner]

Many claim the abomination of desolation (AOD)spoken of by Daniel and Jesus has not been fulfilled yet, and another Temple needs to be rebuilt in the future in Jerusalem in order to fulfill this prophecy.

The easiest way I have found to prove this doctrine is false is by Jesus’ own words. Below both Jesus and the apostles, were speaking of the Temple and buildings they were looking at "with their own eyes."

The words of God confirm this truth.....
Mark 13:1-413 And as he went out of the temple, one of his disciples saith unto him, Master, seewhat manner of stones and what buildings are here!
2 And Jesus answering said unto him, Seest thou these great buildings? there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives over against the temple, Peter and James and John and Andrew asked him privately,
4 Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign when all these things shall be fulfilled?

So Jesus was telling them about the destruction of the Temple they were looking at "with their own eyes."
Notice in Mark's account above there is only one question asked about when shall these buildings be destroyed, and what sign would there be prior to this event, concerning the abomination of desolation.
But in Matthew's account pay attention to the question and the prophecy, as 2 separate questionsare asked of Jesus.

Matthew 24:1-3
24 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

So in Matthews account not only was Jesus asked about the destruction of the Temple they were looking at "with their own eyes", but also about the signs of Christ’s second coming and also about the end of the world.

Now to Luke's account…..

Luke 21:5-7

5 And as some spake of the temple, how it was adorned with goodly stones and gifts, he said,
6 As for these things which ye behold, the days will come, in the which there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
7 And they asked him, saying, Master, but whenshall these things be? and what sign will there be when these things shall come to pass?

Again notice they are speaking of the Temple and buildings they are looking at "with their own eyes." And so Jesus tells them "the signs" given before the temple is to be destroyed….

Luke 21:20 “And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.” ( This is the abomination of desolation event spoken of in Daniel)

This event concerning the destruction of the cityof Jerusalem that Jesus and the apostles were looking at "with their own eyes "is also confirmed by Jesus in
Luke 19:41-44 “And when he was come near, he beheld the city, and wept over it. Saying, If thou hast known, even thou, at least in this day, the things which belong unto thy peace! But now they are hid from thine eyes. For the days shall come upon thee, that thine enemies shall cast a trench about thee, and compass thee round, and keep thee in on every side. And shall lay thee even with the ground, and thy children within thee; and they shall not leave thee one stone upon another; because thou knewest not the time of thy visitation.”

So the common mistake here is to think that the abomination of desolation concerning the destruction of the Temple is yet future, and has anything to do with the second coming of Christ and the end of the world almost 2 thousand years later.
But when you understand the questions asked of Jesus was in two parts, then hopefully you will see these 2 events are separate from one another and are many, many years apart. Also the time line concerning "when" the AOD was fulfilled has nothing to do with the timeline 70 week prophecy in Daniel.

The end of the 70 week prophecy, and the fulfilling of the AOD prophecy are about 40 years apart from one another.
And it is also very clear in all accounts given in Matthew, Mark, and Luke that Jesus and the apostles were talking about the Temple and surrounding buildings they were looking at "with their own eyes".

There is no need for a future Temple to be built to fulfill this AOD prophecy, as it has already been fulfilled in 70 a.d. when the Roman army surrounded, and then destroyed Jerusalem and the Temple. Both the words of Jesus and history prove this to be true. With the abomination of desolation events already being fulfilled, we can now focus on the events leading up to Christ's second coming, and on the signs concerning the end of this world.

Prove all things by the words of God. Peace and God bless

Unfortunately, you didn't "Finish" the complete synopsis of ALL the gospel writers!
You forgot John 2:18-21, the one that tells the COMPLETE truth about "the abomination that MAKETH desolate".
[18] Then answered the Jews and said unto him, What sign shewest thou unto us, seeing that thou doest these things?
[19] Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy [desolate] THIS temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
[20] Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
[21] But he spake of the temple of his [mortal] body.**

Proverbs 6
[16] These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an  ABOMINATION unto him:
[17] A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed INNOCENT blood,
[18] An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief,
[19] A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.

**Note: back to John 2:21 above. Then see Mat. 27:24-25, and you will discover WHO it was that shed innocent blood, thus committing "the abomination that MAKETH [causes to be] desolate", aka being void of God. [Dan.11:31;12:11; Mat. 21:43].

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Right after the army of Joel 2 runs through Jerusalem, Joel 2:28 happens. According to the book of Acts, Joel 2:28 was fulfilled at Pentecost which means Joel's army had to have ran through Jerusalem before the day of Pentecost. I'm guessing Joel's army happened at the same time Psalm 18 was fulfilled. Psalm 18 was fulfilled when Jesus was crucified.

Joel 2:28 And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:

This has nothing to do with the Olivet Discourse. Did someone teach you this?

 

[Stash]

E. W. Bullinger​

The word it
Should be translated to him
Which means when the antichrist is standing in the temple where he is not supposed to be pretending he is Jesus

It’s funny how you guys made a big thread out of something that’s very simple

 

[covenantee]

E. W. Bullinger​

The word it
Should be translated to him
Which means when the antichrist is standing in the temple where he is not supposed to be pretending he is Jesus

It’s funny how you guys made a big thread out of something that’s very simple

Mark 13:14 Greek

1163 [e]
dei
δεῖ —
it should
V-PIA-3S

Mr. Bullinger needs to learn Greek.

There's no him, no antichrist, and no temple.

Very simple.

The abomination of desolation is identified in the synoptic text of Luke 21:20 as the Roman armies.

It was "standing where it ought not" in the holy city of Jerusalem.

Very simple.

 

[Earburner]

E. W. Bullinger​

The word it
Should be translated to him
Which means when the antichrist is standing in the temple where he is not supposed to be pretending he is Jesus

It’s funny how you guys made a big thread out of something that’s very simple

Yes, I agree, it is very simple!
In John 2:18-22, Jesus used typology relative to that abomination described in Dan. 11:31.

By the power/authority of God's Holy Spirit within you, you will see the spiritual truth by what God means, of Who caused ["maketh"] Jerusalem/Israel to be made desolate.
Please see my post #229 for the spiritual details.

1 Cor. 2
[5] That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but [rather] in the power/authority of God.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Many claim the abomination of desolation (AOD)spoken of by Daniel and Jesus has not been fulfilled yet, and another Temple needs to be rebuilt in the future in Jerusalem in order to fulfill this prophecy.

The easiest way I have found to prove this doctrine is false is by Jesus’ own words. Below both Jesus and the apostles, were speaking of the Temple and buildings they were looking at "with their own eyes."

Then please show who and when the AOD was who stood in the holy place!

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

Then please show who and when the AOD was who stood in the holy place!

The AOD is an event, not a He.

 

[Earburner]

The AOD is an event, not a He.

Please read post #229 and inform the "Godhead" that something bad happened to Jesus, that they hated and detested, but lovingly sacrificed to do, for us all.
And to think.....God the Father knew all of that beforehand.

How would you feel, if your only son was going to be beaten, tortured and then brutally murdered in your sight??
To you, it WOULD BE an abomination!!

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

Please read post #229 and inform the "Godhead" that something bad happened to Jesus, that they hated and detested, but lovingly sacrificed to do, for us all.

How would you feel, if your only son was beaten, tortured and then brutally murdered in your sight??
To you, it WOULD BE an abomination!!

I read it, I’ve heard that idea before. But the crucifixion of Jesus was necessary to bring Salvation, not Desolation. It is written that it pleased the Lord to bruise him….

Isaiah 53:10-11
King James Version
​

10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.
11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.”

Them rejecting the words of God for thousands of years, including Jesus’ words brought on the desolation.

It was all the abominations of the children of Israel that brought on the Destruction of the Temple and Jerusalem.

Matthew 23:37-38

King James Version

​

37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate

 

[covenantee]

The AOD is an event, not a He.

It was armies of he's.

Roman armies. Luke 21:20

 

[Earburner]

I read it, I’ve heard that idea before. But the crucifixion of Jesus was necessary to bring Salvation, not Desolation. It is written that it pleased the Lord to bruise him….

Isaiah 53:10-11​

King James Version​

​

10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.
11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.”

Them rejecting the words of God for thousands of years, including Jesus’ words brought on the desolation.

It was all the abominations of the children of Israel that brought on the Destruction of the Temple and Jerusalem.

Matthew 23:37-38​

​

King James Version​

​

​

37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate

God does not care about buildings or temples made with hands!! You know this!!

But, God the Father does care about His creation of man, in which He has ALWAYS wanted to indwell permanently, and that is within "our earthen vessels". 2 Cor. 4:7.

His very first permanent indwelling of flesh, was in that of the mortal body of His Eternal Son Jesus, who was made to be flesh, being that of "the TEMPLE of His body".

You are not hearing the words of Daniel 11:31, in conjunction with John 2:21 "the abomination that maketh desolate [void of God]", was the crucifixion of Jesus.
Q. What was that abomination?
A. Prov. 6:17, the shedding of Christ's innocent blood caused [maketh] Israel to be void of God [desolate]. Thus, they no longer are God's chosen people [house] [Luke 13:35], and therefore God left them to obtain "another nation" called:
"Born Again Christians.

 

[Douggg]

Please read post #229 and inform the "Godhead" that something bad happened to Jesus, that they hated and detested, but lovingly sacrificed to do, for us all.
And to think.....God the Father knew all of that beforehand.

How would you feel, if your only son was going to be beaten, tortured and then brutally murdered in your sight??
To you, it WOULD BE an abomination!!

The abomination of desolation of Matthew 24:15 and Daniel 12:11-12 - will be a standing statue image of the beast-king placed on the temple mount by the false prophet.

"desolation" is regards to the temple, is stopping of the praise and worship of the One True God in the temple.

There will actually be another desolation right before the abomination of desolation statue image. That preceding desolation in Daniel 8:13 is called the transgression of desolation. It will be the act of the Antichrist going into the temple building, sitting in the Holy of Holy's chamber, declaring himself to have achieved God-hood.