When are God's Elect Justified?

[brightfame52]

@Behold

Noone is chosen to be born again., and noone is refused The Cross of Christ.

False, some are chosen to salvation, that means born again 2 Thess 2:13

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

Sanctification of the Spirit is the born again phase of Salvation so they can believe the Truth

 

[brightfame52]

Sorry but the metaphor is to show an inward drawing versus an outward drawing. It is not a metaphor to mean something else.

But i t was you who added JOhn 12 where Jesus says He will draw ALL men to HImself. See I see and know th edifference between John 6 and John 12.

Again its listed in the definition of the word Draw helkō

1. metaph., to draw by inward power, lead, impel

2. metaphorically, to draw by inward power, lead, impel: John 6:44

and this is in details of the definition

ἑλκύσω πρὸς ἐμαυτόν, I by my moral, my spiritual, influence will win over to myself the hearts of all, John 12:32. Cf. Meyer on John 6:44; [Trench, § 21,

So they are made Spiritual by drawing and made believers

 

[brightfame52]

Sorry but the metaphor is to show an inward drawing versus an outward drawing. It is not a metaphor to mean something else.

But i t was you who added JOhn 12 where Jesus says He will draw ALL men to HImself. See I see and know th edifference between John 6 and John 12.

John 6:44 (KJB)No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. Can - Be able, have power to do, have capacity for Draw - Drag or force The fact is clear that the sinner, which Christians used to be, is spiritually dead and loves their sin. (John 3:19 KJV) And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. Since man is dead in sins, there is no way that they can come to Christ, and this verse shows us that no man is able or has the power to come to Christ of their own volition. The way that a person comes to Christ is that the Father must draw or literally drag them. Since they are in a state of spiritual death, all they know is sin and this world. God has to take them and resurrect their souls, grant them spiritual ears and eyes, place the Holy Spirit in them, thus giving them salvation. God then takes them and transfers them from the kingdom of Satan to the Kingdom of God. (Col 1:12-13 KJV)

John 6:41-45

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Your posts that defend TULIP are a result of your indoctrination into this Cult Theology.



What you meant is..."behold, you dont sell Calvinism, so, that proves you dont understand God's word".

See that?
That is your deception talking loudly, as usual.

Well behold, you are more of a five pointer than you will ever admit!

If you believe all mankind is lost and in need of a savior--you are a one pointer.
If you believe man doesn't have to do works before he gets saved, that makes you a two pointer.
If you believe Jesus made all men savable, but only the saved have their sins actually removed, that makes you a three pointer.
If you believe once you are saved, you are saved forever- that makes you a four pointer.

So aas you believe that teh five points are doctrines of devils, how demonic does that make you?

 

[KUWN]

The problem with this heading, when are God's elect justified, is that not all elect will be justified/saved. The nation of Israel was an elect nation but not everyone was justified or saved. To be an elect is to be called to a privileged position, not salvation. The elect need to accept Christ just like anyone else.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

A simple truth is..
If you were a student of Paul's Doctrine, vs being a Servant Tool of Calvinism...then you would recognize Paul's teaching, in my Posts, and in my Threads...

When you start wrotong them, I will recognize them. But you are not Paul so your philosophizing is not Pauline theology. You fear defending your opinions with Scripture, otherwise you would have done so with me. Instead you are manic about screaming how evil youthink Calvion is.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Again its listed in the definition of the word Draw helkō

1. metaph., to draw by inward power, lead, impel

2. metaphorically, to draw by inward power, lead, impel: John 6:44

and this is in details of the definition

ἑλκύσω πρὸς ἐμαυτόν, I by my moral, my spiritual, influence will win over to myself the hearts of all, John 12:32. Cf. Meyer on John 6:44; [Trench, § 21,

So they are made Spiritual by drawing and made believers

You obviously do not understand.

The word "helko" means to physically drag, period. That is its literal meaning.

When it is used other than physically dragging it is a metaphiracl use of the word, that does not mean the passage is a metaphor.

C'mon this is basic stuff you should know.

 

[brightfame52]

You obviously do not understand.

The word "helko" means to physically drag, period. That is its literal meaning.

When it is used other than physically dragging it is a metaphiracl use of the word, that does not mean the passage is a metaphor.

C'mon this is basic stuff you should know.

You just cant see it, I do, so I must testify to it. Drawing is the fruit and effect of regeneration,born of the Spirit.

 

[brightfame52]

@KUWN

The problem with this heading, when are God's elect justified, is that not all elect will be justified/saved.

False, and they were all Justified before God before the foundation

 

[brightfame52]

Blessed with all spiritual blessings means eternal Justification !

Back in the book of Ephesians, Paul writes these words to Believers, Gods Chosen Eph 1:1-4

Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:

2 Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

According to our election in Christ, God blessed the elect with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ. Some of these spiritual blessings we partake of only after we're born into the world, like regeneration and faith, both spiritual blessings, however Justification before the Mind of God is a Spiritual blessing we have in Christ as early as our election in Him was, before the foundation of the world.

Yes, all the elect like other men are born dead in sin, and are by nature children of wrath as others, but different from the non elect portion of mankind, they have been chosen in Christ before the foundation, and in Him have been given all spiritual blessings, such as Justification, and so unlike the non elect, they are still born Justified before God, even as they are born, by nature, children of wrath as others ! 11

 

[Ronald Nolette]

You just cant see it, I do, so I must testify to it. Drawing is the fruit and effect of regeneration,born of the Spirit.

So:

32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

Using your "vision", drawing is the fruit and effect of reeneration. Jesus "draws" all men to Himself. so you believe in universalism.

The Father may not draw all men, but Jesus does. Sorry but you can't have it both ways.

 

[brightfame52]

So:

32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

Using your "vision", drawing is the fruit and effect of reeneration. Jesus "draws" all men to Himself. so you believe in universalism.

The Father may not draw all men, but Jesus does. Sorry but you can't have it both ways.

Jn 6:44 and Jn 12:32 are the same people, all the elect given to Christ, I already stated that I thought Jn 6:37

37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

Jesus and Father draw the same People Jn 17:10

10 And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them.

 

[Behold]

Sanctification of the Spirit is the born again phase of Salvation so they can believe the Truth

No one can be born again before they have Trusted IN Christ.

Being born again happens AFTER you are forgiven your sin, as otherwise God is giving the new birth to an unforgiven sinner.

So, you are teaching that an unforgiven SINNER,= is born again.... so that they can then have faith in Christ.

That is a false Gospel.
Calvinism (TULIP = "the Five points")... is a Cross Denying Lie.

Its this. : Galatians 1:8

 

[brightfame52]

@Behold

No one can be born again before they have Trusted IN Christ.

Thats why one is born again to be able to believe in Christ.

Also when you say Christ, what Christ do you mean ? I dont think you believe in the Christ of limited particular, effectual atonement do you ?

 

[Behold]

@Behold



Thats why one is born again to be able to believe in Christ.

I just want you to think about this....

Holy God....and sinful man, need to be reconciled.......they need to be restored TOGETHER......as God and ADAM had it, originally.

So, ADAM sinned... and His SIN, caused a separation between his spirit and God's Holy Spirit.

Now, Salvation, is that Spiritual reconnection... that restoration of Spiritual Union between GOD's Spirit and ours....

So, what is in the way?
What caused the separation?

= SIN..

So, now every person is a sinner, needing to be FORGIVEN..

And why Forgiven? Its because its the unforgiven sin, that is keeping man from "Spiritual Union" with HOLY God.

So, God has to deal with the SIN of every person, BEFORE He can rejoin Himself SPIRITUALLY to the SINNER.

That means that the sinner MUST BE FORGIVEN... before HOLY GOD< can restore them to Himself in Spiritual Union.....as born again....

So, the forgiveness of SIN.. has to come BEFORE, God can restore Spiritual Union, as Spiritual Union is GOD Joining HIS SPIRIT to the FORGIVEN Person's Spirit = BORN.... again.

So, God can't do that, if the person's SIN is not forgiven..= FIRST....., as in that case HOLY GOD would be joining Himself to an UNFORGIVEN SINNER..

And that is what you are teaching.
You are Teaching that a person is REJOINED TO GOD>......before they are FORGIVEN.. as that is the Demonic "TULIP" (5-Points) Hyper Calvinism TEACHING THAT SAYS... """you are born again to then BELIEVE.""""

That can't happen.
HOLY God can't join Himself to a sinner who is unforgiven, and that is what you are teaching, and that is a LIE.

The reason we give God our FAITH....in Christ ...............is so that God will FORGIVE US, based on our Faith.. .so, He has to have this FIRST... to THEN forgive our sin... ....to THEN give us the NEW BIRTH = born again.

 

[brightfame52]

I just want you to think about this....

Holy God....and sinful man, need to be reconciled.......they need to be restored TOGETHER......as God and ADAM had it, originally.

So, ADAM sinned... and His SIN, caused a separation between his spirit and God's Holy Spirit.

Now, Salvation, is that Spiritual reconnection... that restoration of Spiritual Union between GOD's Spirit and ours....

So, what is in the way?
What caused the separation?

= SIN..

So, now every person is a sinner, needing to be FORGIVEN..

And why Forgiven? Its because its the unforgiven sin, that is keeping man from "Spiritual Union" with HOLY God.

So, God has to deal with the SIN of every person, BEFORE He can rejoin Himself SPIRITUALLY to the SINNER.

That means that the sinner MUST BE FORGIVEN... before HOLY GOD< can restore them to Himself in Spiritual Union.....as born again....

So, the forgiveness of SIN.. has to come BEFORE, God can restore Spiritual Union, as Spiritual Union is GOD Joining HIS SPIRIT to the FORGIVEN Person's Spirit = BORN.... again.

So, God can't do that, if the person's SIN is not forgiven..= FIRST....., as in that case HOLY GOD would be joining Himself to an UNFORGIVEN SINNER..

And that is what you are teaching.
You are Teaching that a person is REJOINED TO GOD>..........before they are FORGIVEN.. as that is the TEACHING THAT SAYS... you are born again to then BELIEVE.

That's can't happen.
God can't join Himself to a sinner unforgiven, and that is what you are teaching.

The reason we give God our FAITH....in Christ ...............is so that God will FORGIVE US, bases on our Faith.. .so, He has to have this FIRST... to THEN forgiven our sin... ....to THEN give us the NEW BIRTH = born again.

One has to be born again to believe in Christ, thats why its written Jn 6:44

44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

 

[Ritajanice]

@Behold



False, some are chosen to salvation, that means born again 2 Thess 2:13

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

Sanctification of the Spirit is the born again phase of Salvation so they can believe the Truth

Very true..Amen!

 

[Ritajanice]

Sanctification of the Spirit is the born again phase of Salvation so they can believe the Truth

We know the truth in our spirit.,.because we were gifted supernatural faith = by supernatural divine heart revelation.

Our spirit must be reborn.,our spirit is in Christ, we are clothed in his righteousness.

Give all the Glory to God!!

 

[Ritajanice]

One has to be born again to believe in Christ, thats why its written Jn 6:44

Of course they do, if our spirit isn’t Born Again ,then how can we even know that God exists..that’s the part some have no understanding of..because it’s spiritually discerned...remember the natural man has no discernment.

 

[Behold]

One has to be born again to believe in Christ, thats why its written Jn 6:44

44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Salvation, is Spiritual reconnection to God's Spirit.....Its the LITERAL restoration of Spiritual Union between GOD's Spirit and ours....

So, what is in the way?
What caused the separation?

= SIN..

So, now every person is a sinner, needing to be FORGIVEN.. And why Forgiven? Its because its the unforgiven sin, that is keeping man from "Spiritual Union" with HOLY God.
Therefore God has to deal with the SIN of every person, BEFORE He can rejoin Himself SPIRITUALLY to the SINNER.
= That means that the sinner MUST BE FORGIVEN... before HOLY GOD< can restore them to Himself in Spiritual Union.....as born again....
So, the forgiveness of SIN.. has to come BEFORE, God can restore Spiritual Union, as Spiritual Union is GOD Joining HIS SPIRIT to the FORGIVEN Person's Spirit = BORN.... again...and God can't do that if the person's SIN is not forgiven..= FIRST... as in that case HOLY GOD would be joining Himself to an UNFORGIVEN SINNER..

And that is what you are teaching.
You are Teaching that a person is REJOINED TO GOD>....before they are FORGIVEN.. as that is the Demonic "TULIP" (5-Points) Hyper Calvinism TEACHING THAT SAYS... """you are born again to then BELIEVE.""""

That can't happen...
HOLY God can't join Himself to a sinner who is unforgiven, and that is what you are teaching, and that is a LIE.
Listen,
The reason we give God our FAITH....in Christ ...............is so that God will FORGIVE US, based on our Faith.. .so, He has to have this FIRST... to THEN forgive our sin... ....to THEN give us the NEW BIRTH = born again