When are God's Elect Justified?

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brightfame52

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@Ronald Nolette

No it is not,
Yes it is. Draw the greek word ἑλκύσῃ means:

  1. to draw, drag off
  2. metaph., to draw by inward power, lead, impel

metaphorically, to draw by inward power, lead, impel: John 6:44 (so in Greek also; as ἐπιθυμίας... ἑλκουσης ἐπὶ ἡδονάς

Jesus is using the word here and Jn 12:32 metaphorically, its the Spirit leading the person Rom 8:14

For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

If it is regenration, then yo0u by default are a universalist. For ALL men are drawn and you just said that drawing is regeneration.
Sorry but its limited to the elect children of God
 
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brightfame52

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Eternal Justification is true because Justification by Grace is true Rom 3:24;Titus3:7; and since Grace had been given believers before the world began 2Tim1:9

Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

Then believers had been Justified by that same Grace before the world began! 10
 

brightfame52

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The Elect were Justified in Christ before the world began !

Now this is True on Two grounds. #1 They are in Christ due to their election in Him Eph 1:4 and 1 Cor 1:30

It is because of him[God the Father] that you are in Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from God--that is, our righteousness, holiness and redemption. NIV

And He chose them in Him before the foundation Eph 1:4

he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love

And we know that there is no condemnation to them that are in Christ Jesus Rom 8:1

Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus,

Therefore they are them that are Justified. Justification is the antithesis to condemnation as seen here Rom 5:18

Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people, so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people.

John Gill writes of Rom 8:1 "them who are in Christ Jesus "



which are in Christ Jesus; not as mere professors are in Christ, who may be lost and damned: but this being in Christ, respects either that union and interest which the elect of God have in Christ, from everlasting: being loved by him with an everlasting love; betrothed to him in a conjugal relation; chosen in him before the foundation of the world; united to him as members to an head; considered in him in the covenant of grace, when he engaged for them as their surety; and so they were preserved in him, notwithstanding their fall in Adam; in time he took upon him their nature, and represented them in it; they were reckoned in him when he hung upon the cross, was buried, rose again, and sat down in heavenly places; in consequence of which union to Christ, and being in him, they are secure from all condemnation: or this may respect an open and manifestative being in Christ at conversion, when they become new creatures, pass from death to life, and so shall never enter into condemnation: hence they stand further described, as such

So the mere fact that some were Chosen by God in Christ before the foundation, necessitates their Eternal Justification before the foundation. You cant believe in Election, and deny Eternal Justification as some men do !
 

Ronald Nolette

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@Ronald Nolette


Yes it is. Draw the greek word ἑλκύσῃ means:

  1. to draw, drag off
  2. metaph., to draw by inward power, lead, impel

metaphorically, to draw by inward power, lead, impel: John 6:44 (so in Greek also; as ἐπιθυμίας... ἑλκουσης ἐπὶ ἡδονάς

Jesus is using the word here and Jn 12:32 metaphorically, its the Spirit leading the person Rom 8:14

For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.


Sorry but its limited to the elect children of God
You have no basis to say Jesus was using these things metaphorically, there isnothing grammatically, contextually or doctrinally t5o even remotely suggest that.

I would like to ssee the authority you use to take these literal phrases and redefine them
 

Ronald Nolette

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metaphorically, to draw by inward power, lead, impel: John 6:44 (so in Greek also; as ἐπιθυμίας... ἑλκουσης ἐπὶ ἡδονάς

Jesus is using the word here and Jn 12:32 metaphorically, its the Spirit leading the person Rom 8:14

For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
Sorry but Romans 8:14 is different than John 6 and John 12.
 

Ronald Nolette

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The Drawing Jn 6:44;12:32 is regeneration, the giving of new Spiritual life. Its an inner drawing, power
If the drawing is regenerationk, you are forced to accept universalism. John 6 is th3e Father drawing men, and John 12 is jESUS DRAWING ALL MEN. SO ALL ARE REGENRATED!

yOU NEED TO BE CONSISTENT IN YOUR MISUING A WORD.
 

Behold

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The Elect were Justified in Christ before the world began !

That means that God has justified those who chose to Trust in Christ, and are then born again "IN Christ".

So, God... seeing this before time began, before the earth was formed.. before Adam was created.....foreknew who is going to become a believer., and from that ... they are predestined to be "adopted" and "conformed"..

So, this that God forknew, is not God pre-destining ........its God REVEALING.....


Reader lets say that you are a car builder, and your name is FORD...... and you can see into the future...
And you see that Your Car is going to become the most popular, and best selling car, ever created.

So, you write a book, before this happens, before the first car is even created.... and you say in Chapter 3 of YOUR BOOK....."And my cars are pre-destined to become owned by nearly 80% of all Americans"...
You SEE THIS, before it happens.......>"Foreknowledge".

Now, you didnt cause them to BUY THE CARS... .And you didnt cause them to CHOOSE the Cars.

Your wrote a book that REVEALED what was going to happen to your CARS, before you created the first one.

And that is God's Foreknowledge, written down as the BIBLE., as He describes who is going to become a Christian.

This is REVELATION..........not "pre-destination"
 

Behold

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Reader lets say that you are a car builder, and your name is FORD...... and you can see into the future...
And you see that Your Car is going to become the most popular, and best selling car, ever created.

So, you write a book, before this happens, before the first car is even created.... and you say in Chapter 3 of YOUR BOOK....."And my cars are pre-destined to become owned by nearly 80% of all Americans"...
YOU SEE THIS.. before it happens. = "Foreknowledge".

Now, you didnt cause them to BUY THE CARS... .And you didnt cause them to CHOOSE the Cars.

Your wrote a book that REVEALED what was going to happen to your CARS, before you created the first one.

And that is God's Foreknowledge, written down as the BIBLE., as He describes who is going to become a Christian.

This is REVELATION..........not "pre-destination"
 

brightfame52

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Accepted in Him equates to Justification in Him !

In line with the fact that Gods elect/chosen are Justified in Christ before the foundation as Per Eph 1:4, because they are in Him, and there's no condemnation to them in Him Rom 8:1

There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. esv

Just as clear is that those Chosen in Christ before the foundation, were as early accepted in Him the Beloved Eph 1:6

to the praise of the glory of His grace, which He has freely given us in the Beloved One,

This agrees with 2 Tim 1:9 that Grace was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began:

He has saved us and called us to a holy life--not because of anything we have done but because of his own purpose and grace. This grace was given us in Christ Jesus before the beginning of time,

And so they were accepted in the Beloved. Eph 1:6

6 to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He made us accepted in the Beloved.

To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

That word in the greek χαριτόω means:

I favor, bestow freely on.

properly, highly-favored because receptive to God's grace. 5487 (xaritóō) is used twice in the NT (Lk 1:28 and Eph 1:6), both times of God extending Himself to freely bestow grace (favor).

And of course we are Justified freely by His Grace Rom 3:24;Titus 3:7

And then the english word itself for accepted means:

to have a favorable opinion of, Approved.

Remember when God told cain that if he did good he would be accepted Gen 4:7

If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted?


Well, Gods chosen are accepted in Christ before the foundation without doing anything good, it was by free grace ! And this Justified them before God ! 10
 

brightfame52

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@Ronald Nolette

If the drawing is regenerationk, you are forced to accept universalism.
False, the drawing is limited to only the "all the Father gives the Son" Jn 6:37

37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
 

brightfame52

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@Behold

That means that God has justified those who chose to Trust in Christ,

False they were chosen before they existed in the flesh, before the world began, so they were chosen to trust in Christ,the True Christ may I add, and not the false christ of arminianism !
 

Behold

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@Behold

False they were chosen before they existed in the flesh,

Noone is chosen to be born again., and noone is refused The Cross of Christ.

So, your hyper-calvinism, is a man made.... ""doctrine of devils.""" (KJV) .. Hebrews 13:9

Real Christians, who are led of the Spirit of God.. would never try to lead anyone to John Calvin, or to Joseph Smith, or to Mary Baker Eddy, or any of these deranged Satanic Psychotic Heretics.
 

Ronald Nolette

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@Ronald Nolette



Yes I do, its listed in the definition of the word for that reason
Sorry but the metaphor is to show an inward drawing versus an outward drawing. It is not a metaphor to mean something else.
@Ronald Nolette


False, the drawing is limited to only the "all the Father gives the Son" Jn 6:37

37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
But i t was you who added JOhn 12 where Jesus says He will draw ALL men to HImself. See I see and know th edifference between John 6 and John 12.
 

Ronald Nolette

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Noone is chosen to be born again., and noone is refused The Cross of Christ.

So, your hyper-calvinism, is a man made.... ""doctrine of devils.""" (KJV) .. Hebrews 13:9

Real Christians, who are led of the Spirit of God.. would never try to lead anyone to John Calvin, or to Joseph Smith, or to Mary Baker Eddy, or any of these deranged Satanic Psychotic Heretics.
YOu forget we would not lead them to Behold either. :joyful:
 

Ronald Nolette

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Reader lets say that you are a car builder, and your name is FORD...... and you can see into the future...
And you see that Your Car is going to become the most popular, and best selling car, ever created.

So, you write a book, before this happens, before the first car is even created.... and you say in Chapter 3 of YOUR BOOK....."And my cars are pre-destined to become owned by nearly 80% of all Americans"...
YOU SEE THIS.. before it happens. = "Foreknowledge".

Now, you didnt cause them to BUY THE CARS... .And you didnt cause them to CHOOSE the Cars.

Your wrote a book that REVEALED what was going to happen to your CARS, before you created the first one.

And that is God's Foreknowledge, written down as the BIBLE., as He describes who is going to become a Christian.

This is REVELATION..........not "pre-destination"
All this is nice and true in english, but not in Greek. prfe destination is pro-orozo which means to mark in advance.

foreknowledge is pro-gnosis which isa to know through preplanning.

This is best described by a word picture. One is heading for a long trip, it is before GPS and phone guides. so you get a trip tik from AAA and thenm proceed to mark the maps as to where you are going.

You know where you are going and how you will get there because you planned in advance- that is biblical foreknowledge.
 

Behold

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YOu forget we would not lead them to Behold either. :joyful:

A simple truth is..
If you were a student of Paul's Doctrine, vs being a Servant Tool of Calvinism...then you would recognize Paul's teaching, in my Posts, and in my Threads...

"well behold, i know those 3 verses that Calvin twisted, so,,, that means im a deep bible student'.

Uh huh.

"well behold, i can cut and paste the same verses all day and night, and so, that proves ...........ummmmmm"............

Right.
 

Ronald Nolette

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A simple truth is..
If you were a student of Paul's Doctrine, vs being a Servant Tool of Calvinism...then you would recognize Paul's teaching, in my Posts, and in my Threads...

"well behold, i know those 3 verses that Calvin twisted, so,,, that means im a deep bible student'.

Uh huh.

"well behold, i can cut and paste the same verses all day and night, and so, that proves ...........ummmmmm"............
And if you believed the bible is the word of God, you would see my posts are very biblical.

You spend most of you rtime in eisegesis. I am little interested in you ropinions when you do not back them up wioth Scripture.

You love philosophy and show disdaini for Gods word.
"well behold, i can cut and paste the same verses all day and night, and so, that proves ...........ummmmmm"............
It would be nice to see you do so, instead of just spewing all your verbal methane.
 

Behold

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And if you believed the bible is the word of God, you would see my posts are very biblical.

Your posts that defend TULIP are a result of your indoctrination into this Cult Theology.

You love philosophy and show disdaini for Gods word.

What you meant is..."behold, you dont sell Calvinism, so, that proves you dont understand God's word".

See that?
That is your deception talking loudly, as usual.