When are God's Elect Justified?

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Behold

Well-Known Member
Apr 11, 2020
20,294
8,121
113
Netanya or Pensacola
Faith
Christian
Country
Israel
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.


Let me teach this verse to you, and i wont open it in the way that Calvin deceived you.. and all other Hyper-Calvinists.


"God who knows everything that is going to happen next, before it happens........ knows who will trust in Christ and who wont before they are born...... and God knows that ONCE the person has trusted in Christ.... then now being "in Christ'.. God has predestined them to be adopted and conformed into the image of Christ , BECAUSE they chose to believe in Jesus and were born again".
 

brightfame52

Well-Known Member
Oct 16, 2020
5,011
489
83
67
Atlanta
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Let me teach this verse to you, and i wont open it in the way that Calvin deceived you.. and all other Hyper-Calvinists.


"God who knows everything that is going to happen next, before it happens........ knows who will trust in Christ and who wont before they are born...... and God knows that ONCE the person has trusted in Christ.... then now being "in Christ'.. God has predestined them to be adopted and conformed into the image of Christ , BECAUSE they chose to believe in Jesus and were born again".
B4 you teach you better be taught first
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ritajanice

KUWN

Active Member
Sep 13, 2024
634
206
43
69
Southeast
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Yes it does, because Christ had Faith, and was faithful, those predestinated to be conformed to His image will be caused to have Faith/Trust Heb 2:13

13 And again, I[Jesus] will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I[Jesus] and the children which God hath given me.

That word trust is also faith
Can an omniscient Being have faith? I don't think so.
Heb 11.1:
Now faith is being sure of what we hope for, being convinced of what we do not see.

Even though Christ gave up the use of some of his attributes, he still possessed them. For example, he saw Nathaniel sitting under the tree.
GJohn 1:48: Nathanael asked him, "How do you know me?" Jesus replied, "Before Philip called you, when you were under the fig tree, I saw you." Only an omniscient Being can do that.
 

brightfame52

Well-Known Member
Oct 16, 2020
5,011
489
83
67
Atlanta
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
@KUWN

Can an omniscient Being have faith? I don't think so.
Heb 11.1:
Now faith is being sure of what we hope for, being convinced of what we do not see.

Do you deny Jesus Christ was also a Man ?
 

KUWN

Active Member
Sep 13, 2024
634
206
43
69
Southeast
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
@KUWN



Do you deny Jesus Christ was also a Man ?
No. He came in the likeness of man, but was different than us. But, Jesus is not two beings in one. He had a divine 'soul' and spirit, he did not have a human nature in the sense that he could carry on a conversation with his divine nature. He was one being. He limited himself to function as a man as a rule, but all the while he was a divine being. He never ceased being God. He has a human body, like he did in the OT Christophanies. He was capable of being sick. He did not have a human soul and spirit. Of course, this has been argued throughout Church History. As a final statement, he was God in the flesh.
 

brightfame52

Well-Known Member
Oct 16, 2020
5,011
489
83
67
Atlanta
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
B4 you speak or post, you might consider thinking first.
That would be something new for you to try, Mr Hyper-Cavinist "Predestined" to be conformed into a deceiver.

See if you can.
You at this point have much enmity against the Gospel of God
 

brightfame52

Well-Known Member
Oct 16, 2020
5,011
489
83
67
Atlanta
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
No. He came in the likeness of man, but was different than us. But, Jesus is not two beings in one. He had a divine 'soul' and spirit, he did not have a human nature in the sense that he could carry on a conversation with his divine nature. He was one being. He limited himself to function as a man as a rule, but all the while he was a divine being. He never ceased being God. He has a human body, like he did in the OT Christophanies. He was capable of being sick. He did not have a human soul and spirit. Of course, this has been argued throughout Church History. As a final statement, he was God in the flesh.
Okay Jesus was God and Man, as Man He had Faith, Trust in God
 

brightfame52

Well-Known Member
Oct 16, 2020
5,011
489
83
67
Atlanta
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
In Christ before the foundation, and so Justified the same !

All who were in Christ Chosen before the foundation Eph 1:4

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

Were also from the Divine Perspective, which Perspective is Preeminent/foremost above all else, they were before the foundation Justified from all things as stated of these Acts 13:39

And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.

In the original that word by is the prep en the same as in Eph 1:4 " Chosen in en Him before the foundation "

Those believing therefore learn via the Gospel of their Justification from all things in Christ before the foundation, a Justification they could not have by the Law of Moses !

Now again, this is to be understood as a Justification they had before and without Faith or Believing in Christ, but due to the fact of the Divine Perspective that they had a Union with Christ [in Him] before the foundation.

The Truth of the Gospel is to be so explained that God from everlasting had Justified those Chosen in Christ, all the Elect, The Church of Christ, as He always saw them in His Beloved Eph 1:6

6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

This Truth in Vs 6 " made accepted in the Beloved" is an Eternal act , not an temporal one, though the Truth of it is revealed to the Justified ones in Time !

This Justification was not because of any foreseen act of believing in the Justified sinner, for it was an fact before they were born, as they were viewed as the members of Christ's Body Ps 139:16

16 Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy book all my members were written, which in continuance were fashioned, when as yet there was none of them.

Note: All my members were written" this alludes to Christ's members written in the Lambs Book of Life , written before the foundation Rev 13:8

And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Rev 17:8

The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is. 7
 

brightfame52

Well-Known Member
Oct 16, 2020
5,011
489
83
67
Atlanta
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
You are making Jesus into two persons. He is not God AND Man, that's two people.
Im not going to argue with you about that, Jesus is both God and Man in one , as Man He had Faith in God, He prayed to God Matt 26:36


Then cometh Jesus with them unto a place called Gethsemane, and saith unto the disciples, Sit ye here, while I go and pray yonder.

Now did He pray in faith or no ?
 

Ritajanice

Born-Again
Mar 9, 2023
13,084
7,434
113
United Kingdom
Faith
Christian
Country
United Kingdom
We are elected to salvation not by our merits, but by God's unconditional love for us, His chosen ones. And those who were not chosen, who were not called, who were not predestined cannot and will not be saved (John 6:44).
 

KUWN

Active Member
Sep 13, 2024
634
206
43
69
Southeast
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Im not going to argue with you about that, Jesus is both God and Man in one , as Man He had Faith in God, He prayed to God Matt 26:36


Then cometh Jesus with them unto a place called Gethsemane, and saith unto the disciples, Sit ye here, while I go and pray yonder.

Now did He pray in faith or no ?
No. Omniscient Beings do not have faith. See my first post on why. Jesus is not two beings, only one.
 

brightfame52

Well-Known Member
Oct 16, 2020
5,011
489
83
67
Atlanta
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Saved in the Purpose of God equals Eternal Justification !

Did you know that all who are in time converted by the Gospel, which is a saving in and of itself, saved by the Power of the Gospel Rom 1:16

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation[conversion] to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

1 Cor 1:18,21

18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved[converted] it is the power of God.

21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

Saved by the Spirits Renewing/Sanctification Titus 3:5

5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

2 Thess 2:13,14

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel[The Power of God Rom 1:16], to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

These were already saved in te Purpose of God 2 Tim 1:9

9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

Now understand, In the Purpose of God, all for whom Christ would die for in Time @ the Cross of Calvary, to bare their sins in His own Body 1 Pet 2:24, they were already saved from their sins penalty incurred by Adam Rom 5:12 and with regard to their own personal sins Rom 5:16 and here the many offences comes from all the personal sins of those who at first sinned in their Federal and Natural head Adam, Adams sin was their inlet sin for the avalanche of sins they would commit upon physical birth;

Yet in the Purpose of God, they were Saved from, Justified from them by the Non Imputation of their sins unto them, and this blessing before the foundation is a vital branch of Eternal Salvation Heb 5:9, in that there was a world of people Chosen in Christ before the foundation, whom God would not charge or impute with their sins 2 Cor 5:19

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. 7
 

brightfame52

Well-Known Member
Oct 16, 2020
5,011
489
83
67
Atlanta
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Saved in the Purpose of God equals Eternal Justification !2

Yet in the Purpose of God, they were Saved from, Justified from them by the Non Imputation of their sins unto them, and this blessing before the foundation is a vital branch of Eternal Salvation Heb 5:9, in that there was a world of people Chosen in Christ before the foundation, whom God would not charge or impute with their sins 2 Cor 5:19

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

The reason being, for non imputation of sin upon that world of people, God in His Eternal Purpose has already charged the condemnation of their sins to Christ [God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them]

Hence He was in the Purpose of God, the Lamb slain [for sins imputed] from the foundation Rev 13:8

And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Appointed before the foundation 1 Pet 1:20

20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

And so the Gospel Message is that of Non Imputation of Sin 2 Cor 5:18-19

18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

The question is when exactly was God in Christ reconciling the World to Himself, and not imputing their trespasses to them ? It was before the foundation in the Everlasting Covenant !

In John Gills excellent Paper on Eternal Justification, we read this:

. The everlasting transaction, the same excellent writer thinks, is imported in #2Co 5:19. "God was in Christ reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them". And the very learned Witsius {17} is of opinion, "that this act of God may be called, the general justification of the elect." And, indeed, since it was the determination of God, and the scheme and method he proposed to take in Christ for the reconciliation of the elect, not to impute their sins to them, but to his Son, their Surety; then seeing they are not imputed to them, but to him; and if reckoned and accounted to him, then not to them; and if charged to him, then they must be discharged from them, and so justified; and a non-imputation of sin to the elect, is no other than a justification of them; and thus the apostle strongly concludes the imputation of Christ's righteousness; which is the "formalis ratio", or the form of justification, from the non-imputation of sin, and the remission of it, #Ro 4:6-8.

http://www.mountzionpbc.org/Index/index04.htm

So the Non Imputation of sin is an Gospel Doctrine[2 Cor 5:19] is based upon Paul's Knowledge of the Eternal Purpose of God in Christ 2 Tim 1:9

9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace[In the Everlasting Covenant], which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
 

brightfame52

Well-Known Member
Oct 16, 2020
5,011
489
83
67
Atlanta
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Saved in the Purpose of God equals Eternal Justification !3

This Non Imputation of sin within God's Purpose also includes full pardon or forgiveness of sins, Rom 4:7-8

7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.

8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

And so just as Non Imputation of sin here denotes sins forgiven, covered, so it does in 2 Cor 5:19 , the blessing of it is secured by Non imputation, which we have a scriptural reason to believe it was before the foundation, so hence 2 Cor 5:19 is one of the clearest scriptures for Eternal Justification, which makes it a Gospel Doctrine ! 8