When are God's Elect Justified?

[Ritajanice]

How do I know I am saved from eternal damnation...because my spirit has been Born Again...now, please don’t ask me to explain a divine revelation..it can only be understood in our spirit....

You must be Born Again...then we are justified before the Living God!

God is a Living Spirit...he is not limited to the Bible.

 

[Episkopos]

The bible interprets the bible. And false doctrines..based on faulty translations...can easily be refuted by comparison with other verses that weren't similarly tampered with.

In keeping with the topic of this thread I offer a better translation of a verse that was used previously to explain a wrong understanding of justification.

That verse reads in the KJV...

So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear G3700 (they will see Him) the second time without sin unto (into) salvation.

I maintain that this is a corruption of the meaning of the original Greek text. I have added in the better rendering. The word "appear" is actually the verb "to see" G3700 as in...

Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see (G3700) the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven. Matt. 26:64

I have provided another verse that is speaking of the same event.

And..Jesus doesn't need to enter INTO salvation...people do. Those are without sin INTO salvation are those who wait for the Lord and His appearing.. Do you know any other bible verse that concerns they who wait for the Lord? ;)

Wrong assumptions bring about wrong conclusions. And faulty translation reflect a human understanding that deviates from the biblical meaning.

 

[Ritajanice]

The Bible does not make our spirit Born Again.

If you are Born Again no doctrines can teach you that.

We are Born Of The LIVING! Spirit..not the Bible..

 

[brightfame52]

That's how discussions begin. Of course I denied it...because you are not understanding the bible narrative. I could help you with it...or we could compare notes...and then we and maybe others could learn ...either to be more sure of what we believe, or else question those beliefs that are not biblically founded.

Well I believe you have rejected the proper understanding.

 

[Episkopos]

Well I believe you have rejected the proper understanding.

I have rejected the translators understanding when it comes to important passages about the mystery of Christ...by understanding the truth even as it is laid out in the unfiltered, non-diverted, non-curated bible.

 

[Scott Downey]

How do I know I am saved from eternal damnation...because my spirit has been Born Again...now, please don’t ask me to explain a divine revelation..it can only be understood in our spirit....

You must be Born Again...then we are justified before the Living God!

God is a Living Spirit...he is not limited to the Bible.

And being born again by His Spirit is according to His will for any particular person, not influenceable by you.

 

[Scott Downey]

Scripture clearly states that no one seeks for God, they are all unprofitable.
So God seeks whom He will to save.
And that we are born again according to His mercy for us, individually, as not all believe, not all are born again by the Spirit.
The Spirit blows on whom He wills. Jesus describes this as the wind, and the wind direction, man cannot control.

The New Birth​

3 There was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews. 2 This man came to Jesus by night and said to Him, “Rabbi, we know that You are a teacher come from God; for no one can do these signs that You do unless God is with him.”

3 Jesus answered and said to him, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born [a]again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”

4 Nicodemus said to Him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born?”

5 Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ 8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”

 

[Ritajanice]

And being born again by His Spirit is according to His will for any particular person, not influenceable by you.

Of course...try telling others that...many believe/ think they chose God.

 

[Scott Downey]

Of course...try telling others that...many believe/ think they chose God.

I suppose that is the natural human feeling.
We should though be spiritually minded, and consider the spiritual things God teaches us in His word.
And also Keep His word in our heart.

And what I read in His word teaches me that God chose me from the beginning to be saved.
That would be the beginning of time, and so then He saved me.

13 But we are [f]bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God from the beginning chose you for salvation through [g]sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth, 14 to which He called you by our gospel, for the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast and hold the traditions which you were taught, whether by word or our [h]epistle.

16 Now may our Lord Jesus Christ Himself, and our God and Father, who has loved us and given us everlasting consolation and good hope by grace, 17 comfort your hearts and [i]establish you in every good word and work.

 

[brightfame52]

I have rejected the translators understanding when it comes to important passages about the mystery of Christ...by understanding the truth even as it is laid out in the unfiltered, non-diverted, non-curated bible.

You have rejected the biblical understanding, but you dont see it.

 

[brightfame52]

Another reason for eternal justification of Gods elect, is because its apparent Justification took place before the Cross of the OT Believers. Abraham was Justified before God based upon imputed righteousness before Christ came and died in time Rom 4:1-5

What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?

2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.

3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness/Justification.

4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

The righteousness in Vs 3 is Christs righteousness 1 Cor 1:30

30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

Worked out by His Obedience and fulfillment of the Law for Abraham Rom 10:4

4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one[to include Abraham] that believeth. 1

 

[brightfame52]

Another reason for eternal justification of Gods elect is because:

Justified while ungodly

The elect are justified whilst ungodly Romans 4:5

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

which means before believing/Faith. Justification then, does not depend upon a sinner’s obedience or personal faith. But instead a sinner is justified upon the basis of the perfect righteousness of Jesus Christ, which is eternal, and its imputation in the established purpose of God.

 

[Scott Downey]

Romans 5, Christ in Our Place
6 For when we were still without strength, [d]in due time Christ died for the ungodly. 7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die; yet perhaps for a good man someone would even dare to die.

8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

9 Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him. 10 For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.

11 And not only that, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation.

Revelation 13:8
All who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

We were reconciled with God through Christ's death.
Christ is the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world
And in DUE TIME, Christ died for the ungodly.

You can maybe comprehend the certain plan of God connecting this reconciliation with us from the beginning of time, yet only fully completed in DUE Time to fulfill all righteousness, as a witness to the universe, that God can not lie, and God's promises all get accomplished by His Word.

Galatians 4 and the time appointed.

Now I say that the heir, as long as he is a child, does not differ at all from a slave, though he is master of all, 2 but is under guardians and stewards until the time appointed by the father. 3 Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world. 4 But when the fullness of the time had come, God sent forth His Son, born[a] of a woman, born under the law, 5 to redeem those who were under the law, that we might receive the adoption as sons.

6 And because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into your hearts, crying out, [b]“Abba, Father!” 7 Therefore you are no longer a slave but a son, and if a son, then an heir [c]of God [d]through Christ.

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21 Tell me, you who desire to be under the law, do you not hear the law? 22 For it is written that Abraham had two sons: the one by a bondwoman, the other by a freewoman. 23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born according to the flesh, and he of the freewoman through promise, 24 which things are symbolic. For these are [g]the two covenants: the one from Mount Sinai which gives birth to bondage, which is Hagar— 25 for this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia, and corresponds to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children— 26 but the Jerusalem above is free, which is the mother of us all. 27 For it is written:

“Rejoice, O barren,
You who do not bear!
Break forth and shout,
You who are not in labor!
For the desolate has many more children
Than she who has a husband.”
28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are children of promise. 29 But, as he who was born according to the flesh then persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, even so it is now. 30 Nevertheless what does the Scripture say? “Cast out the bondwoman and her son, for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.” 31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman but of the free.

While these things are symbolisms, these things are still true and the reality of our relationship with God is most certain having been established by God from the beginning of time, as to whom God chose to be Christ's children, that God gave us to Christ before our birth. and died for us from the foundation of the world.

2 Thess 2 is not symbolic, but is another clearly written truth.

Stand Fast​

13 But we are [f]bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God from the beginning chose you for salvation through [g]sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth, 14 to which He called you by our gospel, for the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast and hold the traditions which you were taught, whether by word or our [h]epistle.

16 Now may our Lord Jesus Christ Himself, and our God and Father, who has loved us and given us everlasting consolation and good hope by grace, 17 comfort your hearts and [i]establish you in every good word and work.


28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are children of promise.

Means we are the promised children of God, and not of the world, we are of God.

 

[Scott Downey]

Now I say that the heir, as long as he is a child, does not differ at all from a slave, though he is master of all, 2 but is under guardians and stewards until the time appointed by the father. 3 Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world. 4 But when the fullness of the time had come, God sent forth His Son, born[a] of a woman, born under the law, 5 to redeem those who were under the law, that we might receive the adoption as sons.

Can you make the connection shown here about who you really are?

 

[Scott Downey]

The Bible does not make our spirit Born Again.

If you are Born Again no doctrines can teach you that.

We are Born Of The LIVING! Spirit..not the Bible..

Yes, Known to God from Eternity are all His works.

Galatians 4
Now I say that the heir, as long as he is a child, does not differ at all from a slave, though he is master of all, 2 but is under guardians and stewards until the time appointed by the father. 3 Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world. 4 But when the fullness of the time had come, God sent forth His Son, born[a] of a woman, born under the law, 5 to redeem those who were under the law, that we might receive the adoption as sons.

6 And because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into your hearts, crying out, [b]“Abba, Father!”

7 Therefore you are no longer a slave but a son, and if a son, then an heir [c]of God [d]through Christ.

 

[brightfame52]

Another reason for eternal justification of Gods elect is because: The essence of justification. Its freely done by grace Rom 3:24

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

Such Grace was given the elect in Christ before the world began 2 Tim 1:9

9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

Christ had been slain in the eternal purpose of God from the foudation Rev 13:8

8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. 2

 

[JLB]

And being born again by His Spirit is according to His will for any particular person, not influenceable by you.

We know His will is for the world to be saved.


For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. John 3:16

Whoever believes.

The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance. 2 Peter 3:9

 

[Scott Downey]

We know His will is for the world to be saved.


For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. John 3:16

Whoever believes.

The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance. 2 Peter 3:9

The promise is to His people though, not the unbelieving world.
And God has foreknown His people.
Peter is writing to the church, which includes those who will be saved in time who are known to God.
None of the apostles letters are written for people who will never believe.

it says it right there,
that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. John 3:16

So then this promise is only for the believing ones.

 

[CadyandZoe]

1644 First London Confession of Faith (Particular Baptists)

"III. ... God had in Christ before the foundation of the world, according to the good pleasure of His will, foreordained some men to eternal life through Jesus Christ, to the praise and glory of His grace (Jude 4,6; Rom. 9:11- 13; Prov. 16:4), leaving the rest in their sin to their just condemnation, to the praise of His justice."

"XXVIII. That those which have union with Christ, are justified from all their sins, past
(John 1:7; Heb 10:14; 9:26; 2 Cor. 5:19; Rom. 3:23), present, and to come, by the blood
of Christ; which justification we conceive to be a gracious and free (Acts 13:38, 39; Rom.
5:1; 3:25, 30) acquittance of a guilty, sinful creature, from all sin by God, through the
satisfaction that Christ has made by His death; and this applied in the manifestation of it
through faith." *Faith is the evidence of being justified from all sins at the resurrection

Jesus, "who was delivered up because of our offences, and was raised up because of our being declared righteous. Having been declared righteous, then, by faith, we have peace toward God through our Lord Jesus Christ," (Rom 4:25; 5:1 YLT) *Believers were justified at the cross, and learned of it through or by their faith, which faith gives us peace toward God

"But God proves his love for us in that while we still were sinners Christ died for us. Much more surely then, now that we have been justified by his blood, will we be saved through him from the wrath of God. For if while we were enemies, we were reconciled to God through the death of his Son, much more surely, having been reconciled, will we be saved by his life." (Rom 5:8-10 NRSV) *We were justified and reconciled at the cross, not at our moment of belief

"...but it has now been revealed through the appearing of our Savior Christ Jesus, who abolished death and brought life and immortality to light through the gospel." (2Tim 1:10 NRSV) *The gospel brought the justification to light, brought the evidence of salvation to the mind of the elect by faith

"...and all who dwell on earth will worship it, every one whose name has not been written before the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb that was slain." (Rev 13:8 RSV) *One must have been seen as justified when written in the book of life

A Holy and Sovereign God was under no obligation to save anyone. He by right could save all, some or none, and sinful man cannot presume to judge his fairness. Considering the relationship of faith to justification, is it not fair to believe God saved elect babies dying in infancy, or saving the mentally incompetent, without their believing?

Do we know that there were NO elect among the native Americans who believed in the Great White Spirit and Creator before man and the Bible appeared? How do we know there are elect among babies dying in infancy? There are those who have the law in their hearts -

"When Gentiles, who do not possess the law, do instinctively what the law requires, these, though not having the law, are a law to themselves. They show that what the law requires is written on their hearts, to which their own conscience also bears witness; and their conflicting thoughts will accuse or perhaps excuse them on the day when, according to my gospel, God, through Jesus Christ, will judge the secret thoughts of all." (Rom 2:14-16 NRSV)

The prepositions from Greek to English are too difficult to be of certain or dogmatic assertions about time of justification. I cannot overturn the clear statements of God's word about justification solely by the assumed meaning of a preposition. Therefore I believe the Elect were justified at the Cross of Christ.

The cross was not the basis for justification. Instead, the cross was the basis for propitiation. We are justified by faith, as Paul argues. And we are justified when we believe.

 

[Scott Downey]

The cross was not the basis for justification. Instead, the cross was the basis for propitiation. We are justified by faith, as Paul argues. And we are justified when we believe.

Justified also by His blood.

Romans 5

8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. 9 Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him. 10 For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.

As believers, we were reconciled to God, but the unbelieving experience God's wrath. And having enmity with God, they refuse to come to Christ and believe and be saved.

Why then did Paul plead with people to be reconciled with God if they already are?

2 Corinthians 5:20
Now then, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were pleading through us: we implore you on Christ’s behalf, be reconciled to God.

So we see that not all people are reconciled with God.

Ask yourself, does God destroy all His enemies?
Are all reconciled with God?
Who does God destroy in Hell?