What will happen to Christians who reject the Sabbath?

[Grailhunter]

Why would Christ do that?
He never commanded to keep Sundays, right?
If keeping Sundays were so important to get to heaven, Jesus would have made it crystal clear, do you agree?

And He never commanded for Christians to stop polygamy or concubinage or slavery.

And He never commanded for Christians to have wedding ceremonies to be married.

And He never told anyone to worship Him in His Father’s house.

The way I see it if you choose the Jewish Saturday Sabbath over the Lord’s Day….that is a deliberate rejection of Christ.

If you try to follow the Jewish way….you are severed from Christ and fallen from Grace. Pack the barbeque sauce in your casket…you will need it.

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

People dismiss the 4th commandment because they don't want or feel that they need the rest it affords and, yes, even commands.

That's a very broad statement, BarneyFife.
Dismissing the 4th commandment may mean what you say. People totally immersed in their daily affairs who do not want to spend time remembering we are God's creation.
But it may also mean that people don't think that the only way to get that rest is by abstaining from certain works on the seventh day of each week from sunset to sunset.

That was the point of Paul against Judaizing converts.
The Judaizing looked down upon Greek converts, thinking they were not authentic followers of Jesus. In their view, an authentic follower had to keep Moses Law, the same way Jesus kept Moses Law.

• Jesus had been circumcised. Converted Gentiles should do the same.
• Jesus had attended the Temple. Converted Gentiles should do the same, and prepare for the long trip to Jerusalem.
• Jesus had kept the Sabbath (not as Pharisees demanded, but He for sure wasn't making chairs and tables at the carpentry shop on Sabbaths). Converted Gentiles should do the same.

Therefore, for Paul, dismissing the 4th commandment perhaps had to do more with dismissing the spiritual rest offered by Christ, as we can read in the epistle to Hebrews.

 

[The Learner]

not keeping up

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

And He never commanded for Christians to stop polygamy or concubinage or slavery.

Then early Christians didn't have to stop poligamy, concubinage or slavery.

And He never commanded for Christians to have wedding ceremonies to be married.

Then early Christians didn't need it.

And He never told anyone to worship Him in His Father’s house.

That's right. He said that the time had come (and it was at that moment) that true believers would worship his Father in spirit and truth.
It didn't mean that those who wanted to attend the Temple shouldn't do it, though. The apostles kept doing it after Jesus had died.

The way I see it if you choose the Jewish Saturday Sabbath over the Lord’s Day….that is a deliberate rejection of Christ.

I invite you to change your mind about that: it is not just that your view is wrong. It can be harmful.

If you try to follow the Jewish way….you are severed from Christ and fallen from Grace. Pack the barbeque sauce in your casket…you will need it.

No. I strongly and firmly disagree, because such belief of yours, applied in certain contexts, could cause harm and suffering to my brothers and sisters.
I respectfully encourage you to read again Paul's letters and history of early Christians to consider the topic of Judaizing converts.

The person who falls from Grace is not the person who chooses to abstain from pork, get circumcised or keep the Sabbath.

The person who falls from God's grace is the person who believes that by abstaining from pork, getting his foreskin cut, and stopping work on Sabbath, he will be saved... and tries to impose those things upon other people, as a requirement to be saved.

 

[St. SteVen]

You're right, St SteVen, in asking for a clarification.
I used the term "moral law" to exclude commandments that prescribe rituals, or social/political commandments (related to social circumstances that can change in history).

Thanks.
The moral law is what I would call God's law. The law that was from the beginning, the law written on human conscience. The law that told Cain that murder was wrong.

Some mean the Ten Commandments (the TCs) when they say "the moral Law". And while that overlaps with the TCs, the Sabbath commandment makes the TCs only for the Israelites or those who wish to follow the law of Moses.

Romans 5:13-14 NIV
To be sure, sin was in the world before the law was given,
but sin is not charged against anyone’s account where there is no law.
14 Nevertheless, death reigned from the time of Adam to the time of Moses,
even over those who did not sin by breaking a command,
as did Adam, who is a pattern of the one to come.

]

 

[Grailhunter]

Then early Christians didn't have to stop poligamy, concubinage or slavery.


Then early Christians didn't need it.


That's right. He said that the time had come (and it was at that moment) that true believers would worship his Father in spirit and truth.
It didn't mean that those who wanted to attend the Temple shouldn't do it, though. The apostles kept doing it after Jesus had died.

I invite you to change your mind about that: it is not just that your view is wrong. It can be harmful.


No. I strongly and firmly disagree, because such belief of yours, applied in certain contexts, could cause harm and suffering to my brothers and sisters.
I respectfully encourage you to read again Paul's letters and history of early Christians to consider the topic of Judaizing converts.

The person who falls from Grace is not the person who chooses to abstain from pork, get circumcised or keep the Sabbath.

The person who falls from God's grace is the person who believes that by abstaining from pork, getting his foreskin cut, and stopping work on Sabbath, he will be saved... and tries to impose those things upon other people, as a requirement to be saved.

Just say no to Judaizers!

And as far as your red explanation LOL All that is, is you trying to justify doing wrong.

 

[St. SteVen]

not keeping up

It's a lot. - LOL

]

 

[BarneyFife]

The straw man of salvation by works is the greatest smokescreen the devil ever invented.

He devises a new way to perpetrate it on folks at the dawn of every generation.

He shows people a way to point at others and accuse them of legalism while they practice a masterful, fresh, new style all their own.

How will this generation victimize their brethren while thinking they do God service?

.

 

[GTW27]

The straw man of salvation by works is the greatest smokescreen the devil ever invented.

He devises a new way to perpetrate it on folks at the dawn of every generation.

He shows people a way to point at others and accuse them of legalism while they practice a masterful, fresh, new style all their own.

How will this generation victimize their brethren while thinking they do God service?

.

Blessings BarneyFife. Actually, the enemy tries to change times and seasons, back before the cross, before these words were spoken, "It is finished." And the one who is soon to step forward on the word stage, will do the same. Even the devil himself can see The Lord of the Sabbath within The true believer. And the true believer always points to Jesus.

 

[St. SteVen]

The straw man of salvation by works is the greatest smokescreen the devil ever invented.

He devises a new way to perpetrate it on folks at the dawn of every generation.

He shows people a way to point at others and accuse them of legalism while they practice a masterful, fresh, new style all their own.

How will this generation victimize their brethren while thinking they do God service?

What is your take on how good works fit in the Christian life?

As I understand it, we are saved FOR good works, not saved BY good works.

Ephesians 2:8-10 NIV
For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—
and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—
9 not by works, so that no one can boast.
10 For we are God’s handiwork,
created in Christ Jesus to do good works,
which God prepared in advance for us to do.

/

 

[BarneyFife]

What is your take on how good works fit in the Christian life?

As I understand it, we are saved FOR good works, not saved BY good works.

Ephesians 2:8-10 NIV
For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—
and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—
9 not by works, so that no one can boast.
10 For we are God’s handiwork,
created in Christ Jesus to do good works,
which God prepared in advance for us to do.

/

I couldn't agree more, Chum.

(But I never get credit for it—I bear the mark of a legalist.)

.

 

[St. SteVen]

I couldn't agree more, Chum.

(But I never get credit for it—I bear the mark of a legalist.)

Infamy, it's just our cross to bear. - LOL

(don't forget to have fun) - badge of dishonor? (crown of thorns) ???

]

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

What is your take on how good works fit in the Christian life?

As I understand it, we are saved FOR good works, not saved BY good works.

Ephesians 2:8-10 NIV
For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—
and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—
9 not by works, so that no one can boast.
10 For we are God’s handiwork,
created in Christ Jesus to do good works,
which God prepared in advance for us to do.

/

I like to think of this using a medical metaphor.
Let's imagine a potentially lethal infection (our spiritual condition) that produces symptoms (evil works).

Trying to fight only the symptoms will falsely improve the condition of the patient for a little while, but will have no effect on the infection. The symptoms will soon fail to respond, more severe symptoms will appear, the condition will get worse and the patient will die.

Treating properly the infection, on the other hand, will produce the disappearance of symptoms, so that the patient can start eating, working, doing exercise, playing, dancing, traveling, studying, having a great life. If the patient is not being able to do all these things, but symptoms persist or are getting worse, we know the patient is not cured (is not saved).

The whole point of treating the infection is to give the patient a good life.
The whole point of salvation is giving men a good life.

One day in a Forum, I opened a thread with the title: "Jesus's mission was to make us nice people". I got almost instantly a lot of negative feedback. "Salvation is not about being nice", was the general uproar. Of course, "nice" was a clickbait to open the debate. But in the end, salvation (as treating a lethal infection) has the purpose of transforming our lives for good thoughts, good words, good works.

 

[Behold]

The whole point of salvation is giving men a good life.

Jesus died on the Cross so that All your sin can be forgiven, so that by this forgiveness God can join Himself spiritually, to you, and give you a birth in the spirit that is to become : Born again.

Jesus said...."YOU, must be born again".

If this does not happen, then Jesus says you will "die in your sins" and that eliminates Heaven, as your eternal destination.

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

Jesus died on the Cross so that your sin can be forgiven, so that by this forgiveness God can join Himself spiritually, to you, and give you a birth in the spirit that is to become Born again.

Jesus said...."YOU, must be born again".

Hi, Behold

We know that our sins have been forgiven, if we now live a good life.
We know that we have joined God spiritually, if we now live a good life.
We know we have been born again, if we now live a good life.

If we don't live a good life, nothing of that has happened yet.

I could claim to have been saved by faith... but if this doesn't show up in works, it has not happened. I'm deceiving myself.
A patient can shout "I'm cured! I'm cured!" but if he is still unable to eat, walk, work, and fever persists, he's deceiving himself.

 

[Behold]

We know that our sins have been forgiven, if we now live a good life.

Sins being forgiven, are not the result of living a good life.

You would do well to consider, that what God perceives as a "good life" is not what you indicate.

Paul told us...
"""as it is written: “None is righteous, no, not one;
11 no one understands;
no one seeks for God.
12 All have turned aside; together they have become worthless;
no one does good,
not even one.”..


So, you are stating that your attempt to try to be "good".. .whatever that means, is proof to you, that What Paul stated that is true, is not true.
And that you, of yourself, believe that you can commit deeds, that prove you are "good", when in fact :"all have sinned".

So, if you bleed goodness out of your eyeballs...if you give your body to be burned for the poor, if you live your life on your knees to provide food for street orphans, for the next 80 yrs, until you dropped dead, you are a SINNER doing this....when you died... @Pancho Frijoles

And those SINS of yours, have not BEEN FORGIVEN, by all your 'trying to be good"., and your opinion, and your religion, cannot change what God has determined regarding all who have been born on this earth.

 

[BarneyFife]

Sins being forgiven, are not the result of living a good life.

How can you not see that what you're inferring here is the exact opposite of what @Pancho Frijoles is saying?

.

 

[Behold]

Hi, Behold

We know that our sins have been forgiven, if we now live a good life.

This is a deceit.
As we are not "forgiven sins" by trying to be "good".
We are forgiven sin, When God forgives them, and that happens when we Trust in Christ, understanding that YOUR SINS need to be forgiven.

Or as John told you.. and notice you have to confess , and that means you have to admit it inside your own SELF.
You have to fact this TRUTH about yourself.....
--
-

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.

New Living Translation
But if we confess our sins to him, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all wickedness.

English Standard Version
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Berean Standard Bible
If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Berean Literal Bible
If we should confess our sins, He is faithful and just, that He may forgive us our sins and might cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

King James Bible
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

New King James Version
If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

New American Standard Bible
If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous, so that He will forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

NASB 1995
If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

NASB 1977
If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Legacy Standard Bible
If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Amplified Bible
If we [freely] admit that we have sinned and confess our sins, He is faithful and just [true to His own nature and promises], and will forgive our sins and cleanse us continually from all unrighteousness [our wrongdoing, everything not in conformity with His will and purpose].

Christian Standard Bible
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

 

[Behold]

How can you not see that what you're inferring here is the exact opposite of what @Pancho Frijoles is saying?

.

Its very simple.

Christians understand that sin prevents Salvation.

Religious people, proclaim that sin isn't the issue....but good works are the cure.

So, when you find someone who has no "sin" to confess, and instead talks about "my good deed", "our good works"... "works works works", then that is self righteousness, as RELIGION.

Jesus told YOU< that you have to come to "the Father".. not by "proof of works", and 'good deeds", but thought FAITH, in Christ.

Let me make it more clear for you, @BarneyFife ..

If i talk to you about your sin, and you talk to me about your good deeds, then what is going on, here?

See, we can do a dance that is called "i wont say that i have Trusted in Christ as a Sinner needing Salvation, but i will dance around it and say...... that because i am good, doing good, then obviously i have FAITH".

A.) Obviously not Faith in Christ, but Faith in Self.

 

[Grailhunter]

What will happen to Christians that reject the Sunday worship of the Lord’s Day?