What is the one true Church?

[MatthewG]

The Merrimac Pentecostal Holiness church… If any were to say my church was far inferior to yours, the one true church… I would have to hang my head in great sorrow and agree! But in our time we would have given you the run for the money!

Are you in this picture?

 

[Marymog]

I would imagine that the truth would seem pretty shocking to you.

You imagine incorrectly kiddo. There was no truth in your statement.

The leaders of the churches (what you call congregations) were not "like a Bishop". They were bishops.....Just like scripture calls them. Now I know you want to play this word game that they can't be called "bishop" because the English word "bishop" had not been created yet....but that is YOUR GAME to play...not mine. You PRETEND the word "overseer" is different than bishop....that is true delusion!!!!

You are ignorant of your own Christian history and pretend Catalogus Lberianus is non existant. That is your problem...not mine our a problem with history. You want to erase history that doesn't fit what your protestant men have taught.

Keeping it real with the facts.....Mary

 

[MatthewG]

There is only one real church todah.


Its spiritual.

Not material; there was once an assembly who paved the way to the establishment of the Heavenly Jerusalem, by having faith and they were told to straighten up, just read revelation.

That material church was taken up.


There is always more fruit to come after the “first fruit” which was those early christians.

 

[Grailhunter]

The leaders of the churches (what you call congregations) were not "like a Bishop". They were bishops.....Just like scripture calls them. Now I know you want to play this word game that they can't be called "bishop" because the English word "bishop" had not been created yet....but that is YOUR GAME to play...not mine.

Ya it is called reality lady.
But I can see that reality is a game for you guys...
For the rest of us reality is something that is connected to truth.
Do you think there were astronauts in the biblical era?
How about taxi drivers?

The sad thing is that you do not care enough to look it up, you would rather live a lie.

Ever talk to people that have left the Catholic Church?

They have a lot of complaints and concerns but two things that seem to come up a lot are.

1. The Catholic Church does not preach the Gospel.

2. They were told what to believe. And it was not the truth.

 

[BreadOfLife]

You have not produced anything that defined the Church as existing before 312 Ad and you can not produce anything that proves it existed before 312 AD because it did not exist before 312 AD. All you have is a delusion in your mind.

Sooooo – all of the Early Church Fathers that wrote PRIOR to this invented date of yours (312 ad) were on drugs?

Ignatius of Antioch
Where the bishop is to be seen, there let all his people be; just as, wherever Jesus Christ is present, there is the Catholic Church (Letter to the Smyrneans 8:2 [A.D. 110]).

The Martyrdom of Polycarp
When finally he concluded his prayer, after remembering all who had at any time come his way – small folk and great folk, distinguished and undistinguished, and the whole Catholic Church throughout the world – the time for departure came. So they placed him on an ass, and brought him into the city on a great Sabbath (The Martyrdom of Polycarp 8 [A.D. 150]).

Irenaeus
The Catholic Church possesses one and the same faith throughout the whole world, as we have already said (Against Heresies 1:10 [A.D. 189]).

Tertullian
For it is evident that those men lived not so long ago – in the reign of Antoninus for the most part – and that they at first were believers in the doctrine of the Catholic Church, in the church of Rome under the episcopate of the blessed Eleutherus, until on account of their ever restless curiosity, with which they even infected the brethren, they were more than once expelled (On the Prescription Against Heretics 22,30 [A.D.200])

Cyprian
The spouse of Christ cannot be defiled; she is uncorrupted and chaste. She knows one home . . . (On the Unity of the Catholic Church 6 [A.D. 251]).

BOY – talk about being deluded – as well as being an outright LIAR . . .

Some bad men! You funny! Most of these atrocities were driven by the Pope and others in the leadership of the Catholic Church.
In 1227 Pope Gregory IX appointed the first judges delegate as inquisitors for heretical depravity—many, though not all, of whom were Dominican and Franciscan friars. Papal inquisitors had authority over everyone except bishops and their officials.

In 1478 Pope Sixtus IV issued a papal bull, or decree, authorizing the Catholic Monarchs to name inquisitors in order to enforce religious uniformity and to expel Jews from Spain.

Rome renewed its own Inquisition in 1542 when Pope Paul III created the Supreme Sacred Congregation of the Roman and Universal Inquisition to combat Protestant heresy.

Estimates of the number killed by the Spanish Inquisition, which Pope Sixtus IV authorized in a papal bull in 1478, have ranged from 30,000 to 300,000. Some historians are convinced that millions died.

It is the death tolls that are hard to confirm. Since most of the Inquisitions and witch trials and tortures and executions were witnessed and documented by clergy, that information is probably in the Vatican Library. I have run a crossed some pretty high numbers...like over a million, but it is hard to get all the information because some included privateers that charged towns to come in and run trials and tortures and murders. Some would target widows that had money or property and charge them for the torture and execution taking their money and property. It is a dark time for the Church and a dark time in history in general. Some of it had to do with superstitious hysteria and some was just criminal.

And adjusted for anti-Catholic revisionism – those numbers are closer to 4,000 (FIUR THOUSAND) officially.

Gee, Henry VIII and his bloodthirsty daughter, Elizabeth ! killed about 72,000 Catholics alone.

Like I said, Einstein – there’s plenty of blood on everyone’s hands . . .

I nor any Christian needs your initiation. This again is the dark side of the Church, thinking it had authority over salvation and our relationship with God.

You ABSOUTELY need the permission of the Church to receive the Eucharist.
Jesus gave the Church with SUPREME earthly Authority – not YOU.

He told the leaders of His Church that WAHTEVER they bourn or loosed on earth would be bound or loosed in Heaven. (Matt. 16:18-19, Matt. 18:15-18, Luke 10:16, John 16:12-15, John 20:21-23).

As Paul wrote, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit:
1 Thess. 5:12
We ask you, brothers, to respect those who are laboring among you and who are OVER YOU in the Lord and who admonish you,

1 Tim. 5:17
Let the elders that RULE WELL be counted worthy of DOUBLE HONOUR, especially they who labour in the word and doctrine.

There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
Galatians 3:28....Was Paul just kidding...then how much of the Bible are we going to consider a joke?

Christ and the Apostles did not denounce slavery...should we still have slaves.

One of the reasons I am not Bible only is because I believe Christianity advanced.

Where there female Apostles? I believe they were with Christ at the cross when the men called Apostles were hiding.
Messiah means anointed one....only females anointed Christ.
It was the females that financed Christ's ministry.
It was females that were at the tomb.
The women followers of Christ believed and had faith....Christ had to prove to the men that He had resurrected.
What means more...to have a title or what you do....
The Apostles did not believe that Christ would resurrect....they first thought was that He was a ghost.

Man, you are IGNORANT.

First of all – the “slavery” that Paul wrote about was NOT the same type of slavery that we had here in the U.S. It was more along the lines of a debt bondage. Something that was owed and being paid back.

Secondly, as we read in 1 Cor. 12 – although there is no SPIRITUAL difference between Jew, Greek, man or woman – there ARE defined ROLES within the Church.
And it was the very SAME Paul who wrote:

1 Tim. 2:11-12
A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet.

I Cor. 14:34.
The women should keep silent in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be in submission, as the Law also says.

Do your HOMEWORK . . .

Pretty much a sweeping statement....if you want go over each one....pull them up.

No – YOU’RE the one who made the idiotic claim – so the onus is on YOU . . .

Give me some pictures.....take me to school....always like to learn things.
As I have said, I raised Catholic....went to church six days a week....been in a lot of churches in the US and in several countries.

And the fact that you NEVER saw a full immersion Baptism in a Catholic Church lets me know that you are LYING about having been in one . . .

You so funny....
The desire of the Catholic Church to control people....They have no right to restrict contraception or sex between married people. Where do think this came from

And if you understood that most methods of artificial contraception are abortifacients – you would know why they are frowned upon. Putting up artificial barriers before God is another moral evil associated with it.

And, for the record – up until the Anglican Church’s 1930 Lambeth Conference – virtually EVERY Protestant denomination taught against artificial contraception as a matter of DOCTRINE. Virtually EVERY one of them did an about-face on the issue except for the Catholic Church.

The truth doesn't change - and neither should doctrine . . .

 

[Jim B]

Sooooo – all of the Early Church Fathers that wrote PRIOR to this invented date of yours (312 ad) were on drugs?

Ignatius of Antioch
Where the bishop is to be seen, there let all his people be; just as, wherever Jesus Christ is present, there is the Catholic Church (Letter to the Smyrneans 8:2 [A.D. 110]).

The Martyrdom of Polycarp
When finally he concluded his prayer, after remembering all who had at any time come his way – small folk and great folk, distinguished and undistinguished, and the whole Catholic Church throughout the world – the time for departure came. So they placed him on an ass, and brought him into the city on a great Sabbath (The Martyrdom of Polycarp 8 [A.D. 150]).

Irenaeus
The Catholic Church possesses one and the same faith throughout the whole world, as we have already said (Against Heresies 1:10 [A.D. 189]).

Tertullian
For it is evident that those men lived not so long ago – in the reign of Antoninus for the most part – and that they at first were believers in the doctrine of the Catholic Church, in the church of Rome under the episcopate of the blessed Eleutherus, until on account of their ever restless curiosity, with which they even infected the brethren, they were more than once expelled (On the Prescription Against Heretics 22,30 [A.D.200])

Cyprian
The spouse of Christ cannot be defiled; she is uncorrupted and chaste. She knows one home . . . (On the Unity of the Catholic Church 6 [A.D. 251]).

BOY – talk about being deluded – as well as being an outright LIAR . . .

And adjusted for anti-Catholic revisionism – those numbers are closer to 4,000 (FIUR THOUSAND) officially.

Gee, Henry VIII and his bloodthirsty daughter, Elizabeth ! killed about 72,000 Catholics alone.

Like I said, Einstein – there’s plenty of blood on everyone’s hands . . .

You ABSOUTELY need the permission of the Church to receive the Eucharist.
Jesus gave the Church with SUPREME earthly Authority – not YOU.

He told the leaders of His Church that WAHTEVER they bourn or loosed on earth would be bound or loosed in Heaven. (Matt. 16:18-19, Matt. 18:15-18, Luke 10:16, John 16:12-15, John 20:21-23).

As Paul wrote, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit:
1 Thess. 5:12
We ask you, brothers, to respect those who are laboring among you and who are OVER YOU in the Lord and who admonish you,

1 Tim. 5:17
Let the elders that RULE WELL be counted worthy of DOUBLE HONOUR, especially they who labour in the word and doctrine.

Man, you are IGNORANT.

First of all – the “slavery” that Paul wrote about was NOT the same type of slavery that we had here in the U.S. It was more along the lines of a debt bondage. Something that was owed and being paid back.

Secondly, as we read in 1 Cor. 12 – although there is no SPIRITUAL difference between Jew, Greek, man or woman – there ARE defined ROLES within the Church.
And it was the very SAME Paul who wrote:

1 Tim. 2:11-12
A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet.

I Cor. 14:34.
The women should keep silent in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be in submission, as the Law also says.

Do your HOMEWORK . . .

No – YOU’RE the one who made the idiotic claim – so the onus is on YOU . . .

And the fact that you NEVER saw a full immersion Baptism in a Catholic Church lets me know that you are LYING about having been in one . . .

And if you understood that most methods of artificial contraception are abortifacients – you would know why they are frowned upon. Putting up artificial barriers before God is another moral evil associated with it.

And, for the record – up until the Anglican Church’s 1930 Lambeth Conference – virtually EVERY Protestant denomination taught against artificial contraception as a matter of DOCTRINE. Virtually EVERY one of them did an about-face on the issue except for the Catholic Church.

The truth doesn't change - and neither should doctrine . . .

Is this really what your denomination teaches? Try read Scripture and asking God to give you understanding.

 

[Grailhunter]

Sooooo – all of the Early Church Fathers that wrote PRIOR to this invented date of yours (312 ad) were on drugs?

No one said they were on drugs.
None were writing from Church buildings.
No organization that would appear as central Christian authority.
No one person was considered the central Christian authority.
None called themselves Catholic.
Early Church Fathers were independent Christian writers.
They were not issuing papal bulls.

Ignatius of Antioch
Where the bishop is to be seen, there let all his people be; just as, wherever Jesus Christ is present, there is the Catholic Church (Letter to the Smyrneans 8:2 [A.D. 110]).

The Martyrdom of Polycarp
When finally he concluded his prayer, after remembering all who had at any time come his way – small folk and great folk, distinguished and undistinguished, and the whole Catholic Church throughout the world – the time for departure came. So they placed him on an ass, and brought him into the city on a great Sabbath (The Martyrdom of Polycarp 8 [A.D. 150]).

Irenaeus
The Catholic Church possesses one and the same faith throughout the whole world, as we have already said (Against Heresies 1:10 [A.D. 189]).

Tertullian
For it is evident that those men lived not so long ago – in the reign of Antoninus for the most part – and that they at first were believers in the doctrine of the Catholic Church, in the church of Rome under the episcopate of the blessed Eleutherus, until on account of their ever restless curiosity, with which they even infected the brethren, they were more than once expelled (On the Prescription Against Heretics 22,30 [A.D.200])

Cyprian
The spouse of Christ cannot be defiled; she is uncorrupted and chaste. She knows one home . . . (On the Unity of the Catholic Church 6 [A.D. 251]).

I want you to look up every word here.....do you want to bet dollars to donuts that every word here is an English word. This is your problem, you do not understand how languages move through time periods. Look them up in their original language the meaning will be more clear to you.

Any reference the ECF's made about doctrines did not come from one the seven Churches of Asia Minor any one group or person. The doctrines they are referencing come from the scriptures, not even the Bible, the Bible did not exist yet....no bound book called the Bible.
No church buildings.....no "church" in Rome....if there were a building of Christians in Rome they would just round them up and feed them to the lions. There were congregations of Christians in Rome, but they were in hiding, the ones that did not hide ended up as martyrs. The seven churches of Asia Minor were not looking to Rome to lead them in this time period.

 

[Grailhunter]

You ABSOUTELY need the permission of the Church to receive the Eucharist.
Jesus gave the Church with SUPREME earthly Authority – not YOU.

He told the leaders of His Church that WAHTEVER they bourn or loosed on earth would be bound or loosed in Heaven. (Matt. 16:18-19, Matt. 18:15-18, Luke 10:16, John 16:12-15, John 20:21-23).

As Paul wrote, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit:
1 Thess. 5:12
We ask you, brothers, to respect those who are laboring among you and who are OVER YOU in the Lord and who admonish you,

1 Tim. 5:17
Let the elders that RULE WELL be counted worthy of DOUBLE HONOUR, especially they who labour in the word and doctrine.

Again this is the Catholic Church's problem, their rules only apply to those that are in their congregation. And I have no interest in the Eucharist I participate in the Bread and wine ritual as Christ showed how to do it.

And the fact that you NEVER saw a full immersion Baptism in a Catholic Church lets me know that you are LYING about having been in one . . .

That is not true to the extreme, I have been in a lot of Catholic Churches. Pictures please.
Went a head and looked it up on the internet....
According to the Catechism of the Catholic Church,
Baptism is performed in the most expressive way by triple immersion in the baptismal water. However, from ancient times it has also been able to be conferred by pouring the water three times over the candidate's head"

No mention of an option of full immersion. But I am sure that some where, some churches has some, but that would mean they are not going along with the Catechism of the Catholic Church. I am not saying they do not exist, I am saying I have not seen them.

And you low life example of a Christian, stop calling me a liar.

 

[Illuminator]

What I Love About Protestants​

 

[Illuminator]

I would imagine that the truth would seem pretty shocking to you.

Do you advocate for women priests and same sex unions?

 

[Illuminator]

There is only one real church todah.


Its spiritual.

Not material; there was once an assembly who paved the way to the establishment of the Heavenly Jerusalem, by having faith and they were told to straighten up, just read revelation.

That material church was taken up.


There is always more fruit to come after the “first fruit” which was those early christians.

The Church's social teaching is a rich treasure of wisdom about building a just society and living lives of holiness amidst the challenges of modern society.

Modern Catholic social teaching has been articulated through a tradition of papal, conciliar, and episcopal documents. The depth and richness of this tradition can be understood best through a direct reading of these documents. In these brief reflections, we highlight several of the key themes that are at the heart of our Catholic social tradition.

Life and Dignity of the Human Person​

The Catholic Church proclaims that human life is sacred and that the dignity of the human person is the foundation of a moral vision for society. This belief is the foundation of all the principles of our social teaching. In our society, human life is under direct attack from abortion and euthanasia. The value of human life is being threatened by cloning, embryonic stem cell research, and the use of the death penalty. The intentional targeting of civilians in war or terrorist attacks is always wrong. Catholic teaching also calls on us to work to avoid war. Nations must protect the right to life by finding increasingly effective ways to prevent conflicts and resolve them by peaceful means. We believe that every person is precious, that people are more important than things, and that the measure of every institution is whether it threatens or enhances the life and dignity of the human person.

More on Life and Dignity of the Human Person

Call to Family, Community, and Participation​

The person is not only sacred but also social. How we organize our society -- in economics and politics, in law and policy -- directly affects human dignity and the capacity of individuals to grow in community. Marriage and the family are the central social institutions that must be supported and strengthened, not undermined. We believe people have a right and a duty to participate in society, seeking together the common good and well-being of all, especially the poor and vulnerable.

More on Call to Family, Community, and Participation

Rights and Responsibilities​

The Catholic tradition teaches that human dignity can be protected and a healthy community can be achieved only if human rights are protected and responsibilities are met. Therefore, every person has a fundamental right to life and a right to those things required for human decency. Corresponding to these rights are duties and responsibilities--to one another, to our families, and to the larger society.

More on Rights and Responsibilities

Option for the Poor and Vulnerable​

A basic moral test is how our most vulnerable members are faring. In a society marred by deepening divisions between rich and poor, our tradition recalls the story of the Last Judgment (Mt 25:31-46) and instructs us to put the needs of the poor and vulnerable first.
More on Option for the Poor and Vulnerable

The Dignity of Work and the Rights of Workers​

The economy must serve people, not the other way around. Work is more than a way to make a living; it is a form of continuing participation in Gods creation. If the dignity of work is to be protected, then the basic rights of workers must be respected--the right to productive work, to decent and fair wages, to the organization and joining of unions, to private property, and to economic initiative.
More on Dignity of Work and Rights of Workers

Solidarity​

We are one human family whatever our national, racial, ethnic, economic, and ideological differences. We are our brothers and sisters keepers, wherever they may be. Loving our neighbor has global dimensions in a shrinking world. At the core of the virtue of solidarity is the pursuit of justice and peace. Pope Paul VI taught that if you want peace, work for justice.1 The Gospel calls us to be peacemakers. Our love for all our sisters and brothers demands that we promote peace in a world surrounded by violence and conflict.
More on Solidarity

Care for God's Creation​

We show our respect for the Creator by our stewardship of creation. Care for the earth is not just an Earth Day slogan, it is a requirement of our faith. We are called to protect people and the planet, living our faith in relationship with all of Gods creation. This environmental challenge has fundamental moral and ethical dimensions that cannot be ignored.
More on Care for God's Creation

Seven Themes of Catholic Social Teaching

The Church's social teaching is a rich treasure of wisdom about building a just society and living lives of holiness amidst the challenges of modern society....

www.usccb.org

 

[BreadOfLife]

Is this really what your denomination teaches? Try read Scripture and asking God to give you understanding.

TRANSLATION:
"Sorry - I couldn't come up with an intelligent response."

 

[Grailhunter]

Do you advocate for women priests and same sex unions?

Do you advocate priests having sex in the butt? Do they bring toilet paper with them or just clean up with Holy water?
A stupid question deserves a stupid response.
Women priests are not in the same category as same sex unions. What level of stupidity does that come from?

 

[MatthewG]

While organizations can help @Illuminator.

They are not God. I dont base my faith off of what people suggest i need to believe. Its based on the overall scope, and view with aspect of history co-existing with-in the bibles on narrative that in my opinion is completely unattested, and aslo true.

So a material building hold no power on God.
God shows his power by sending the spirit into those who have faith and works on their heart and mind to do what is right, by the spirit.


Organizations “baptist, calvinistic, armninan, church of Christ, Catholic ; Jehovah witness, Muslim, Mormon.

None of these places have any authority in anyones life and you if you think they play apart in salvation, my suggestion is that your totally wrong, if someone is placing faith in the organization, or man, and not God.

 

[Illuminator]

While organizations can help @Illuminator.

They are not God. I dont base my faith off of what people suggest i need to believe. Its based on the overall scope, and view with aspect of history co-existing with-in the bibles on narrative that in my opinion is completely unattested, and aslo true.

So a material building hold no power on God.
God shows his power by sending the spirit into those who have faith and works on their heart and mind to do what is right, by the spirit.


Organizations “baptist, calvinistic, armninan, church of Christ, Catholic ; Jehovah witness, Muslim, Mormon.

None of these places have any authority in anyones life and you if you think they play apart in salvation, my suggestion is that your totally wrong, if someone is placing faith in the organization, or man, and not God.

An invisible or purely spiritual church does nothing for the betterment of society. 7 themes of Catholic social teaching is not based on "what people suggest i need to believe". Believe whatever you want.
The Church's social teaching is a rich treasure of wisdom about building a just society and living lives of holiness amidst the challenges of modern society.
It has nothing to do with "placing faith in the organization".

 

[MatthewG]

Jesus wasnt worried about society.

He was worried about getting people saved, and have their hearts changed my guy, always his eyes on the heavenly Kingdom,


Please think for yourself and know God loves you, and he loved the world - the society of all the other individuals other wise he would never have sent Jesus, to restore.

 

[Illuminator]

Do you advocate priests having sex in the butt? Do they bring toilet paper with them or just clean up with Holy water?
A stupid question deserves a stupid response.
Women priests are not in the same category as same sex unions. What level of stupidity does that come from?

So you advocate for women priests and/or same sex unions? It's no less stupid a question than your stupid claims there was no Pope or Catholic Church for 300 years. You are not a typical radical, you are an extreme extremist, so I had to ask how far your extremes reach. Since you demand the Church change her teaching on contraception, do you demand similar changes on homosexuality? Test tube babies? Surrogate motherhood? Should openly gay men be ordained? Should the Pope stop saying transgender ideology is evil? Apostates don't apostatize over doctrines, they apostatize because of their sins.

 

[Illuminator]

Jesus wasnt worried about society.

He was worried about getting people saved, and have their hearts changed my guy, always his eyes on the heavenly Kingdom,

Please think for yourself and know God loves you, and he loved the world - the society of all the other individuals other wise he would never have sent Jesus, to restore.

The Church's social teaching is a rich treasure of wisdom about building a just society and living lives of holiness amidst the challenges of modern society.
Sorry you find that disturbing.

 

[Grailhunter]

So you advocate for women priests and/or same sex unions? It's no less stupid a question than your stupid claims there was no Pope or Catholic Church for 300 years. You are not a typical radical, you are an extreme extremist, so I had to ask how far your extremes reach. Since you demand the Church change her teaching on contraception, do you demand similar changes on homosexuality? Should openly gay men be ordained? Apostates don't apostatize over doctrines, they apostatize because of their sins.

So many stupid questions. But it is no surprise considering your intelligence.
You have a fantasy for a religion going on in your head, so again it is not a surprise.
Yes the church should get out of crotch sniffing.
Yes women are Christians too and should be equal members.
And homosexually is a sin in case you did not know.

 

[MatthewG]

The Church's social teaching is a rich treasure of wisdom about building a just society and living lives of holiness amidst the challenges of modern society.
Sorry you find that disturbing.

Which church?