Christ's True Church

[Davy]

Some here have argued over what is Christ's true Church, which what they are giving is more along the lines of men's philosophy instead of what God's Word reveals.

Lord Jesus gave examples of His True Church when He gave His 7 Messages to the 7 Churches in Asia Minor. He had rebuke for 5 of those Churches which had problems in them. Yet He did not condemn those of His faithful servants in those 5 Churches that were not partaking of those problems.

But there were 2 Churches He had no... rebuke for; the Church of Smyrna and the Church of Philadelphia. Might that mean that He was happy with those 2 Churches? YES! Might that also represent His very elect that were NOT deceived? YES! So what's the difference with those 2 Churches and the other 5 Churches?

The matter is common sense. If you go looking for a valid Christian Church to attend, and you pick one of the 5 Churches which Jesus rebuked and try it for a while, and choose that Church, then what would that mean for your understanding as a servant in Christ?

It would mean you either were unware of some of the evil going on in that Church, or that you were aware and just didn't care, and chose to go there anyway. Or maybe you did see problems that Church was having, and thought maybe you would go there to help them in some way. Nothing wrong with that thinking. We should go where we are taught The Word of God, and where The Holy Spirit leads us (just make sure it is The Holy Spirit you are listening to when going to one of those 5 problem Churches.)

So still, how... are the 5 problem Churches and the 2 no-problem Churches different? What makes them different?


The 2 elect Church of Smyrna and Church of Philadelphia were aware of a specific doctrine Jesus did not mention with His rebuke of the other 5 Churches. Can you see what that doctrine is with your 'eyes to see, and ears to hear'? --

Rev 2:8-11
8 And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write; These things saith the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive;
9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.
10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.
11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.
KJV

Rev 3:7-13
7 And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write; These things saith He That is holy, He That is true, He That hath the key of David, He That openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth;
8 I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept My word, and hast not denied My name.
9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.
10 Because thou hast kept the word of My patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.
11 Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.
12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of My God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of My God, and the name of the city of My God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from My God: and I will write upon him My new name.
13 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.
KJV

 

[Taken]

Christ's True Church​

Christ’s True Church IS a congregation of Individuals BY their True Heartful Word of Commitment become MADE Converted “IN Christ” ( before physical / mortal / bodily Death) by, through, of the Baptism of the Holy Spirit, by, through, of The Lamb of God and Power of God.
WHOM such individuals;
* were verified true Heartful believers,
* were forgiven their sin of unbelief,
* were covered internally with Gods Light
* were bodily crucified with Jesus’ body
* were heart circumcised
* were given a new Heart
* were bodily cleansed, (in Jesus’ blood)
* were sanctified (set apart / justified) for redemption / Rapture.
* were Identity / Name entered into the Lambs Book of Life
* were soul restored / thus ie. soul saved
* were spirit quickened (ie spirit born again) of Gods Seed. (Christ)
* were given authority to Dwell “in Christ”Jesus’ Risen Body, while they yet remain in their mortal (alive body)
* were given the Holy Spirit of Truth to Dwell in their new Heart
* were given promise God would Never leave them.
* were given knowledge they are not subject to wrath, which shall be catastrophically sent down from heaven, in Gods appointed time
* were informed to wait patiently without worries for The Lord to summon them up off the face of the Earth.
* were promised entrance into Gods everlasting Earthly Kingdom
* were promised eternal peace, safety, comfort, tranquility
* were promised to Forever be With the Lord God Almighty by, through, of His Power (ie. Christ)
* were promised eternal water of life access.
* were promised eternal Fruit of the Tree of Life access.
* were promised to SEE the Lord God, as He IS…ie / Spirit.

An individuals Belief and Trust and Choice and Confession in God and His Word, Lord Jesus…IS the WHY such things Exclusively APPLY to Such men…called IN Christ;
ie, Members of Christs Church.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Davy]

Still no one bothers to answer my Bible question...

The 2 elect Churches of Smyrna and Philadelphia were aware of a specific doctrine Jesus did not mention with His rebuke of the other 5 Churches. Can you see what that doctrine is with your 'eyes to see, and ears to hear'? -- Refer to Christ's 7 Messages to the 7 Churches in Asia per the Book of Revelation.

 

[Davy]

At this point, I will only... reveal the Answer to my Question to those who PM me. I will show you the Bible Scriptures that point to the Answer, and then it will be up to you to do your own Bible study about it.

 

[Pearl]

Well I think that there is and has only ever been one true Church, which is made up only of those who are Born Again believers from whatever church background, or none, worldwide, past present and future. Those who through the revelation of the Holy Spirit have seen Jesus for who he is, recognised what he did, turned from their sin and accepted him into their lives as Lord and Saviour. Anybody who hasn’t taken these steps towards him and made that commitment is not, in my view, part of the Church. And in my experience many church-goers and even clergy fall outside this criterion.

And already in God’s eyes we are spotless; having had our sin washed away in the blood of the sacrificial Lamb we are free from it. We are not though, yet perfect – far from it some might say – and won’t be while we are in our mortal bodies, but we are without sin in God’s eyes. If we were not we wouldn’t be called a Holy Priesthood; those who have been made holy as he is holy and can come into His holy presence and stand before him face to face.

It is this Church which will be presented to the Father as the Bride.

Within the denominations there are many ‘weeds’ and wolves and where they are in the majority, I believe God’s word tells us not to be yoked with unbelievers. I know there is an argument which says stay and lead by example, but I have found that such died-in-the-wool ‘weeds’ have absolutely no desire to change and most will be quite derogatory about those in their midst who confess to be Born Again and spirit filled.

Many clergy are afraid to preach the truth in case they offend life-long church members who then may leave, causing dwindling membership to drop even further – I’ve seen it happen. These stiff-necked people are often the driving force of the church (small c) as they refuse to step down from positions of authority on PCC committees and the like, which can result in the stultifying of the church.

Those of us who do belong to the One True Church should be showing love and a lack of prejudice towards one another. We who carry the divine DNA and are brothers and sisters in Christ, children of the Living God need to be seen to be kind and loving to each other as “By their love will you know them”. We have so much in common, and our Father tells us to encourage one another, so let us do just that.

I believe that in God's eyes we are not spiritually divided if we have the Holy Spirit of God in us and are in Christ. We are not divided but already have the unity of the Spirit. We may not agree on doctrine or the colour of the walls in the brew room, or even about whether to have a bag or a plate for collections. But if we are born again Jesus unites us; his blood unites us; his sacrifice unites us. We are already one family in Christ; albeit a quarrelsome one.

And whilst there are divisions within the Church over unimportant doctrinal matters which have been interpreted in different ways by different sectors of Christ's body, nonetheless the important thing is that all who are born again in Christ are united with Christ and therefore must surely be united with each other. If we will stop looking at the differences between us and begin to see ourselves as united in the way I have described then maybe that will go a long way to closing the divisions and ending the quarrels.

 

[Davy]

Well I think that there is and has only ever been one true Church, which is made up only of those who are Born Again believers from whatever church background, or none, worldwide, past present and future. Those who through the revelation of the Holy Spirit have seen Jesus for who he is, recognised what he did, turned from their sin and accepted him into their lives as Lord and Saviour. Anybody who hasn’t taken these steps towards him and made that commitment is not, in my view, part of the Church. And in my experience many church-goers and even clergy fall outside this criterion.

And already in God’s eyes we are spotless; having had our sin washed away in the blood of the sacrificial Lamb we are free from it. We are not though, yet perfect – far from it some might say – and won’t be while we are in our mortal bodies, but we are without sin in God’s eyes. If we were not we wouldn’t be called a Holy Priesthood; those who have been made holy as he is holy and can come into His holy presence and stand before him face to face.

It is this Church which will be presented to the Father as the Bride.

Within the denominations there are many ‘weeds’ and wolves and where they are in the majority, I believe God’s word tells us not to be yoked with unbelievers. I know there is an argument which says stay and lead by example, but I have found that such died-in-the-wool ‘weeds’ have absolutely no desire to change and most will be quite derogatory about those in their midst who confess to be Born Again and spirit filled.

Many clergy are afraid to preach the truth in case they offend life-long church members who then may leave, causing dwindling membership to drop even further – I’ve seen it happen. These stiff-necked people are often the driving force of the church (small c) as they refuse to step down from positions of authority on PCC committees and the like, which can result in the stultifying of the church.

Those of us who do belong to the One True Church should be showing love and a lack of prejudice towards one another. We who carry the divine DNA and are brothers and sisters in Christ, children of the Living God need to be seen to be kind and loving to each other as “By their love will you know them”. We have so much in common, and our Father tells us to encourage one another, so let us do just that.

I believe that in God's eyes we are not spiritually divided if we have the Holy Spirit of God in us and are in Christ. We are not divided but already have the unity of the Spirit. We may not agree on doctrine or the colour of the walls in the brew room, or even about whether to have a bag or a plate for collections. But if we are born again Jesus unites us; his blood unites us; his sacrifice unites us. We are already one family in Christ; albeit a quarrelsome one.

And whilst there are divisions within the Church over unimportant doctrinal matters which have been interpreted in different ways by different sectors of Christ's body, nonetheless the important thing is that all who are born again in Christ are united with Christ and therefore must surely be united with each other. If we will stop looking at the differences between us and begin to see ourselves as united in the way I have described then maybe that will go a long way to closing the divisions and ending the quarrels.

Thanks for your reply, but I have some questions for you.

Since Apostle Paul showed in Romans 4 and Galatians 3 that The Gospel of Jesus Christ was preached to Abraham, and that those of FAITH are the "children of Abraham", just where... does Abraham fit within Christ's Church?

And per Lord Jesus' words Himself at the end of John 8 when speaking with the deceived Pharisees, how did His REBUKE to them represent His love? And His rebuke was... a type of His love, if you can understand that.

Also, Jesus said there at the end of John 8 that Abraham rejoiced to see His day, and was glad. Then those Pharisees asked if He had seen... Abraham. And Jesus said, "Before Abraham was, I AM." That "I AM" is one of GOD's sacred names told to Moses. Because Jesus was claiming to be GOD by saying that, the Pharisees picked up stones to stone Him, but He escaped.

So just how... did Abraham 'see' Christ's day? And doesn't that mean Abraham knew the prophecy of Christ's Ministry which was still future to Abraham's day? Do you understand that David and Isaiah were given to prophesy of events of Christ's crucifixion? (Psalms 22; Isaiah 53).

And just who is Hebrews 7 actually talking about with that Melchisedec who met Abraham back in Genesis 14 and gave Abraham "bread and wine"?

 

[Keraz]

The true Church consists of every individual faithful Christian person.
Each of the Seven Church's of Revelation has some Overcomers in it. Just like all of the denominations today, they each have people who are true believers and who trust the Lord, plus some who are only pew warmers. God knows the heart, but we should all be aware that He intends to test our faith in the forthcoming event of the Sixth Seal.

And just who is Hebrews 7 actually talking about with that Melchisedec who met Abraham

Jesus, of course. Proved by 1 Corinthians 10:3b

 

[Pearl]

, just where... does Abraham fit within Christ's Church?

Abraham's descendants can become part of the true Church just like anybody else - by accepting Jesus as Lord and Saviour and becoming born again.

 

[Davy]

Abraham's descendants can become part of the true Church just like anybody else - by accepting Jesus as Lord and Saviour and becoming born again.

I wasn't asking about Abraham's descendants, but about Abraham himself.

Where does Abraham himself fit within Christ's Church, since The Gospel of Jesus Christ was first preached to Abraham, according to Apostle Paul, and all those of FAITH (i.e, Christ's Church), Paul then says have become "the children of Abraham".

It is sad that not many Churches today preach from what Apostle Paul showed in Galatians 3 about Abraham's Faith...

Gal 3:6-9
6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.
8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, "In thee shall all nations be blessed."
9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.
KJV

Gal 3:13-14
13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, "Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:"
14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
KJV

Gal 3:29
29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
KJV

Apostle Paul was very clear that The Gospel of Jesus Christ was preached to Abraham, and Abraham believed, and God accounted Abraham's Faith as righteousness. But Lord Jesus had not been born in the flesh yet to die on the cross back then, so how is it that The Gospel was preached to Abraham prior to the event of the cross?

And since Apostle Paul says those of FAITH are the "children of Abraham", because of believing the SAME Faith as Abraham did on The Gospel, then how does that NOT make Abraham part of Christ's Church, even back then at the time of Genesis?

Apostle Paul was not simply rambling in Romans 4 and Galatians 3 about Abraham's day. Many of my Christian brethren don't understand this matter by Apostle Paul because they have not paid enough attention in their Old Testament Bible studies. God gave a Birthright to His chosen which included The Gospel from the very start, after all, Jesus Christ was ordained to be born in the flesh and die on the cross from the foundation of the world. And per the Book of Jude which quotes from the Book of Enoch about Christ's future coming with ten thousands of His saints, that even shows that Enoch, the 7th from the man Adam, also knew about The Gospel of Jesus Christ!

So really, men's doctrines in the Church are ignorant of these things, when they should not be, as The Gospel can be found in just about every Book of The Bible, including The Old Testament Books.

Recall that Lord Jesus said...

Luke 24:44
44 And He said unto them, "These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning Me."
KJV

 

[Davy]

So not just Abraham then? Do you mean other Godly men and women who loved and served God long before Jesus died on the cross?

Did I ask about anyone other than Abraham? No, I did not.

What I'm trying to get you to understand, per Paul's Epistles of Galatians 3 and Romans 4 about Abraham, is that Faith on The Gospel of Jesus Christ did not just begin in The New Testament.

It is not popularly taught, but the actual name Israel which God gave to Jacob as his new name, represents the 'overcomers' in Christ. God simply chose a certain people to carry and protect The Gospel to all nations, which is why Christ was first preached to the Jews at Jerusalem, and once rejected by the majority of Jews there, The Gospel then went to the Gentiles, among whom the ten lost tribes had been scattered amongst, and BOTH together accepted Jesus, and became the early Christian Church in Asia Minor and Europe.

So what that means is, the Christian Church is the continued inheritors of God's Promises He originally gave through the nation of Israel, and the Promise by Faith (The Gospel), was first given to and through Abraham. This is why Apostle Paul said those of Faith are the "children of Abraham" per Galatians 3 (and by the way, Galatians is a foundational Book of New Covenant Doctrine).

 

[Davy]

Jesus, of course. Proved by 1 Corinthians 10:3b

1 Cor 10:4
4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.
KJV

Mark 14:27
27 And Jesus saith unto them, All ye shall be offended because of Me this night: for it is written, 'I will smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered.'
KJV

Gen 49:22-24
22 Joseph is a fruitful bough, even a fruitful bough by a well; whose branches run over the wall:
23 The archers have sorely grieved him, and shot at him, and hated him:
24 But his bow abode in strength, and the arms of his hands were made strong by the hands of the mighty God of Jacob; (from thence is the shepherd, the stone of Israel:)
KJV

Ex 17:6
6 Behold, I will stand before thee there upon the rock in Horeb; and thou shalt smite the rock, and there shall come water out of it, that the people may drink. And Moses did so in the sight of the elders of Israel.
KJV

Num 20:8
8 Take the rod, and gather thou the assembly together, thou, and Aaron thy brother, and speak ye unto the rock before their eyes; and it shall give forth his water, and thou shalt bring forth to them water out of the rock: so thou shalt give the congregation and their beasts drink.
KJV

Deut 8:15
15 Who led thee through that great and terrible wilderness, wherein were fiery serpents, and scorpions, and drought, where there was no water; who brought thee forth water out of the rock of flint;
KJV

 

[FredVB]

The true church, that of all the real believers, is not visible to us, not being any of the recognized organizations. There are disagreements among all, but not all those are about essential stuff, none of us are inerrant. The body of all real believers will all be reconciled in the restoration that comes.

 

[Hobie]

Some here have argued over what is Christ's true Church, which what they are giving is more along the lines of men's philosophy instead of what God's Word reveals.

Lord Jesus gave examples of His True Church when He gave His 7 Messages to the 7 Churches in Asia Minor. He had rebuke for 5 of those Churches which had problems in them. Yet He did not condemn those of His faithful servants in those 5 Churches that were not partaking of those problems.

But there were 2 Churches He had no... rebuke for; the Church of Smyrna and the Church of Philadelphia. Might that mean that He was happy with those 2 Churches? YES! Might that also represent His very elect that were NOT deceived? YES! So what's the difference with those 2 Churches and the other 5 Churches?

The matter is common sense. If you go looking for a valid Christian Church to attend, and you pick one of the 5 Churches which Jesus rebuked and try it for a while, and choose that Church, then what would that mean for your understanding as a servant in Christ?

It would mean you either were unware of some of the evil going on in that Church, or that you were aware and just didn't care, and chose to go there anyway. Or maybe you did see problems that Church was having, and thought maybe you would go there to help them in some way. Nothing wrong with that thinking. We should go where we are taught The Word of God, and where The Holy Spirit leads us (just make sure it is The Holy Spirit you are listening to when going to one of those 5 problem Churches.)

So still, how... are the 5 problem Churches and the 2 no-problem Churches different? What makes them different?


The 2 elect Church of Smyrna and Church of Philadelphia were aware of a specific doctrine Jesus did not mention with His rebuke of the other 5 Churches. Can you see what that doctrine is with your 'eyes to see, and ears to hear'? --

Rev 2:8-11
8 And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write; These things saith the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive;
9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.
10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.
11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.
KJV

Rev 3:7-13
7 And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write; These things saith He That is holy, He That is true, He That hath the key of David, He That openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth;
8 I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept My word, and hast not denied My name.
9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.
10 Because thou hast kept the word of My patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.
11 Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.
12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of My God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of My God, and the name of the city of My God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from My God: and I will write upon him My new name.
13 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.
KJV

Gods Word is clear..
1 John 3:24
And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

 

[Davy]

Gods Word is clear..
1 John 3:24
And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

That doesn't answer my question of what those 2 Churches of Smyrna and Philadelphia had in common.

 

[Hobie]

That doesn't answer my question of what those 2 Churches of Smyrna and Philadelphia had in common.

Persecution, here is a good explanation... The Seven Churches of Revelation

 

[Davy]

Persecution, here is a good explanation... The Seven Churches of Revelation

Cannot read you link.

I want YOUR answer anyway, not someone else.

And I'll give you hint, you cannot know the answer to my question without first studying and comparing those two Revelation 2:9 and 3:9 verses, and then noticing Jesus said nothing about it to the other 5 Churches.

 

[Hobie]

Cannot read you link.

I want YOUR answer anyway, not someone else.

And I'll give you hint, you cannot know the answer to my question without first studying and comparing those two Revelation 2:9 and 3:9 verses, and then noticing Jesus said nothing about it to the other 5 Churches.

I guess you missed it, Persecution....

 

[Davy]

I guess you missed it, Persecution....

Persecution by whom?

And didn't any in the other 5 Churches suffer persecution? What of those in the other Churches that Jesus mentioned that didn't have the false doctrines in their 5 Churches? Wouldn't they be under a type of persecution even from their own deceived brethren there?

Lord Jesus is telling us of a specific group that was persecuting those two Churches of Smyrna and Philadelphia. And because Jesus had no rebuke for those two Churches, that points to their representing His "very elect" of Matthew 24:24.