We’re the two witnesses from the past?

[Truth7t7]

Again you missed the point which you constantly make a habit of doing. Is the image and the beast continuous historical revelations?

Yes or no?

"No" (The Beast) isn't a continuous succession of the popes in Rome as reformed eschatology in historicism teaches

(The Beast) seen in Revelation chapter 13 will be a "Future" literal human man, that will be present on earth at the Lord's return

 

[face2face]

" And the end thereof shall be with a flood"

There would be no salvation, no avoiding the ravages of the Roman armies. The ferocity of the siege in AD 70 was as a result of the constant revolts that Jewish insurrectionists had maintained over the previous forty years. It was a repetition of the Assyrian flood, that earlier swept over Judah, so graphically described in Isa 8:7-8.

The word "end" used twice in this verse is the Hebrew qets, meaning "extremity" (i.e. time). A certain time period had been marked out, and this would bring Judah's Commonwealth to an absolute finish.

This prophecy is so precise, a futurist is powerless to deny the historical accuracy in its fulfillment.

Do you know Moses foretold these terrible time for Israel: Deut 28:63-68.

The Roman devastation continued past AD 70, to finally conclude in AD 132-5, when the Jewish revolt under Bar Kochba was suppressed,
and Jerusalem became a Roman Colony with the changed name of Colonia Aelia Capitolina.

The Temple destroyed, the Romans erected a new temple on Mt. Moriah, and dedicated it to Jupiter.

The terrible end of Jewish hopes is graphically depicted by the word "desolation's" (Hebrew: shamem), meaning wasting, ruin. It has remained in that condition since AD 135; and only revived in our times as a sign of the impending return of the Prince!

More on this "return" if you so desire.

F2F

 

[face2face]

"No" (The Beast) isn't a continuous succession of the popes in Rome as reformed eschatology in historicism teaches

(The Beast) seen in Revelation chapter 13 will be a "Future" literal human man, that will be present on earth at the Lord's return

Still resisting the continuous historical revelation of the empires and of the Last to Reign indifferently!
All you need to do is say "yes, they are continuous historic revelations"
Try it - it wont hurt!

 

[Truth7t7]

Okay, we need to understand the timeline here! Again continous historic! Christ killed ---> Christ becomes commander & prince of Armies!

It's clear there is a change of roles from "he who is cut off having nothing", Christ being crucified, to now "the people of the Prince" who shall come.

Jesus doesn't become a commander of armies as you suggest, and it's most likely in the false reformed preterist claims of 70AD Jerusalem

P.S. it's (people of the prince) no capital for Prince as you add deity above falsely

Your claim is false the "He" seen in Daniel 9:27 below isn't Jesus Christ as you claim, Jesus doesn't make abomination or desolation as you falsely suggest

That poured upon the desolate below will be (God's cup of wrath) that takes place at the "Consummation" or "Ultimate End" in the Lord's second coming in fire and final judgement (The End)

Daniel 9:27KJV
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

 

[face2face]

"No" (The Beast) isn't a continuous succession of the popes in Rome as reformed eschatology in historicism teaches

(The Beast) seen in Revelation chapter 13 will be a "Future" literal human man, that will be present on earth at the Lord's return

At present 7 you have no right to state what Revelation 13 is about as you can't even discern the true nature of Daniels Prophecy and its interpretive method. Let's get you right there first then we can move to the Revelation.
F2F

 

[face2face]

Your claim is false the "He" seen in Daniel 9:27 below isn't Jesus Christ as you claim, Jesus doesn't make abomination or desolation as you falsely suggest

AD 70 saw the greatest devastation of the Jewish commonwealth in all history. Jesus gave his Olivet Prophecy on the basis of
Daniel's forecast (Matt. 24:15):

“So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’ spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand...

Jesus described the terrible vengeance that would be wrought: "For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be" (v. 21).

Like a sudden inundation, the Roman armies swept all before them, and left Jerusalem in ruins and the nation writhing in exile. The word "destroy" is in Hebrew shachath, which means "to decay, so as to ruin". The Roman oppression commenced very soon after the death
of Christ (Daniel 9:26), following the rebellion and Jewish revolts that spasmodically increased. As the Roman governors faced more and more agitation, they were forced to exercise tighter control over Judea. Finally, Titus took his armies to Jerusalem, surrounding the city in siege, and after protracted delay, finally completed the task and destroyed the city.

Titus (a Gentile) walked into the Holy of Hollies and fulfilled what was written!

By now you are noticing you are void of Scripture; void of an interpretation and void of understanding... all because you do not know the Lords teaching, both in Daniel and in the Revelation.

F2F

 

[Truth7t7]

Still resisting the continuous historical revelation of the empires and of the Last to Reign indifferently!
All you need to do is say "yes, they are continuous historic revelations"
Try it - it wont hurt!

Reformed preteris eschatology in historicism is a false teaching, Rome plays no part in fulfillment of the Harlot Mystery Babylon or (The Beast) as reformed eschatology falsely teaches

 

[face2face]

Reformed preteris eschatology in historicism is a false teaching, Rome plays no part in fulfillment of the Harlot Mystery Babylon or (The Beast) as reformed eschatology falsely teaches

Waiting for you to acknowledge Dan 2 & 7 are historical continuous revelations of the development of the Kingdoms of Men in the earth, which at some point the standing image of Man, Christ comes whose right it is to smash the image at its feet and grind it to powder.
Here I'll make it easier for you - by acknoweldging this truth, I will not hold you to your so called "reformed eschatology!" Just acknowedge what everyone knows is true.

 

[face2face]

@everyone,

Daniel 9:26 "And for the overspreading of abominations"

This fulfillment is rather amazing!

Christ having led the Roman armies into Jerusalem to put an end to the sanctuary and sacrifices (and the Law!) history records what was done.

The Roman banners were triumphantly attached to a prominent part of the Temple in the years following his crucifixion, in order to reinforce
Roman domination over the Jews, and to emphasise that the revolts then occurring could not succeed. Josephus declares that when the city was taken in AD 66-70 the Romans took ensigns into the Temple, and setting them over the eastern gate, offered sacrifices to them and made Titus Imperator.

On the standards of the Roman Legions were featured the golden eagle with outstretched wings, grasping a thunderbolt. These eagles were
sanctified in the Temple of Mars, and were recognized as the symbol of Rome, of which Moses made reference in Deut. 28:49

The Lord will bring a nation against you from far away, from the ends of the earth, like an eagle swooping down, a nation whose language you will not understand.

Once you understand the Continuous Historical nature of these revelations the OP of the two witnesses can be understood. I realize its been a long protracted debate, but one worth while, if we sincerely desire the blessings contained in the Revelation... for those who have ears to hear.

F2F

 

[Truth7t7]

AD 70 saw the greatest devastation of the Jewish commonwealth in all history. Jesus gave his Olivet Prophecy on the basis of
Daniel's forecast (Matt. 24:15):

“So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’ spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand...

Jesus described the terrible vengeance that would be wrought: "For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be" (v. 21).

Like a sudden inundation, the Roman armies swept all before them, and left Jerusalem in ruins and the nation writhing in exile. The word "destroy" is in Hebrew shachath, which means "to decay, so as to ruin". The Roman oppression commenced very soon after the death
of Christ (Daniel 9:26), following the rebellion and Jewish revolts that spasmodically increased. As the Roman governors faced more and more agitation, they were forced to exercise tighter control over Judea. Finally, Titus took his armies to Jerusalem, surrounding the city in siege, and after protracted delay, finally completed the task and destroyed the city.

Titus (a Gentile) walked into the Holy of Hollies and fulfilled what was written!

By now you are noticing you are void of Scripture; void of an interpretation and void of understanding... all because you do not know the Lords teaching, both in Daniel and in the Revelation.

F2F

70AD Jerusalem's destruction did absolutely nothing to fulfill Matthew Chapter 24 as reformed preterist eschatology falsely teaches

Daniel's AOD Matthew 24:15 is "Future" that will cause the Matthew 24:21 "Future" Great Tribulation, Jesus returns immediately after this "Future" Great Tribulation, and it didn't take place in 70AD Jerusalem

Matthew 24:29-30KJV
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

 

[face2face]

Jesus doesn't become a commander of armies as you suggest, and it's most likely in the false reformed preterist claims of 70AD Jerusalem

The Apostles knew he would!

James 5:5-6 You (Judaizers) have lived on earth in luxury and self-indulgence. You have fattened yourselves in the day of slaughter. 6 You have condemned and murdered the innocent one, who was not opposing you.

Jesus didn't become commander of armies 7?

The warnings were written all over the Word of God and if they (like you) had ears to hear they could have been saved from the day of slaughter!~

They (like many today) had fattened themselves like stallfed cattle for the day of slaughter. The day of slaughter referred to by James was the impending day of judgment in A.D. 70, which brought the Jewish State to an end, and led to worldwide persecution of the Jewish people.

There was justice in this judgment, for until then the wealthy Jews had dragged the poor before the judgment seats of the land (James 2:6). Now they, in turn, were being selected for judgment.

Jeremiah used a similar figure. He declared that those who were particularly rebellious against Yahweh would be "pulled out as sheep for the slaughter" Go on Read Jeremiah 12:3 dont take my word for it! Jeremiah 25:34 also!

Specially fattened sheep were selected for that purpose on such occasions. So it would be at the impending day of judgment in
A.D. 70. Those who had been particularly rebellious against Yahweh, and particularly oppressive to those believing Jews, would especially suffer. A similar figure is used in regard to Armageddon (see Ezek. 39:17-21).

Those nations which have callously oppressed Yahweh's people will particularly suffer (Dan 7:11-12). What happened in A.D. 70 types
what will happen to the Gentiles at the coming of the Lord Read Jer 25:29-37

I conclude that you are in error because you know now how to interpret the Word of God.

F2F

 

[face2face]

70AD Jerusalem's destruction did absolutely nothing to fulfill Matthew Chapter 24 as reformed preterist eschatology falsely teaches

Daniel's AOD Matthew 24:15 is "Future" that will cause the Matthew 24:21 "Future" Great Tribulation, Jesus returns immediately after this "Future" Great Tribulation, and it didn't take place in 70AD Jerusalem

Matthew 24:29-30KJV
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

You can't even discern the times and the season in which Jesus spoke... such ignorance - the Olivet Prophecy wasn't for you 7 - it was for the end of the Jewish State - end of the Law!

Your mind has been infected - its sick and you can't see it!

Revelation 16 is our Olivet Prophecy! - but how would you know?

F2F

 

[face2face]

Waiting for you to acknowledge Dan 2 & 7 are historical continuous revelations of the development of the Kingdoms of Men in the earth, which at some point the standing image of Man, Christ comes whose right it is to smash the image at its feet and grind it to powder.
Here I'll make it easier for you - by acknoweldging this truth, I will not hold you to your so called "reformed eschatology!" Just acknowedge what everyone knows is true.

@Truth7t7 your reluctance here is becoming embarrassing.

 

[Truth7t7]

Finally, Titus took his armies to Jerusalem, surrounding the city in siege, and after protracted delay, finally completed the task and destroyed the city.

Titus (a Gentile) walked into the Holy of Hollies and fulfilled what was written!

Titus wasn't (The Beast) of Revelation 13, (The Beast) will be destroyed at the Lord's "Future" second coming

 

[face2face]

70AD Jerusalem's destruction did absolutely nothing to fulfill Matthew Chapter 24 as reformed preterist eschatology falsely teaches

You say it achieved nothing?

Let's explore this shall we?

Luke 19:27 But as for these enemies of mine who did not want me to be their king, bring them here and slaughter them in front of me!’

You think this is a Grim warning of AD70 for those who had no King but Ceasar?

F2F

Note: the language of James 5?

 

[face2face]

70AD Jerusalem's destruction did absolutely nothing to fulfill Matthew Chapter 24 as reformed preterist eschatology falsely teaches

Let me know when you have seen enough truth!

Luke 23:30 Then they will begin to say to the mountains, ‘Fall on us!’ and to the hills, ‘Cover us!’

In AD70 they can expect to “bring forth children to the murderer" Hos 9:13

Hosea 9:13 Just as lion cubs are born predators, so Ephraim will bear his sons for slaughter.

F2F

 

[Truth7t7]

@Truth7t7 your reluctance here is becoming embarrassing.

The embarrassment is you promoting the standard reformed preterist eschatology in 70AD fulfillment, a false teaching

Daniel's AOD Matthew 24:15 is "Future" that will cause the Matthew 24:21 "Future" Great Tribulation, Jesus returns immediately after this "Future" Great Tribulation, and it didn't take place in 70AD Jerusalem

Matthew 24:29-30KJV
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

 

[face2face]

@Truth7t7

Luke 13:2 He answered them, “Do you think these Galileans were worse sinners than all the other Galileans, because they suffered these things? 13:3 No, I tell you! But unless you repent, you will all perish as well!

Terrible fulfilment in AD70!

 

[face2face]

The embarrassment is you promoting the standard reformed preterist eschatology in 70AD fulfillment, a false teaching

Daniel's AOD Matthew 24:15 is "Future" that will cause the Matthew 24:21 "Future" Great Tribulation, Jesus returns immediately after this "Future" Great Tribulation, and it didn't take place in 70AD Jerusalem

Matthew 24:29-30KJV
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Not once have you dealt with the evidence, just special pleading on your part.
Be honest 7 - Out with it!

 

[face2face]

The embarrassment is you promoting the standard reformed preterist eschatology in 70AD fulfillment, a false teaching

Daniel's AOD Matthew 24:15 is "Future" that will cause the Matthew 24:21 "Future" Great Tribulation, Jesus returns immediately after this "Future" Great Tribulation, and it didn't take place in 70AD Jerusalem

Matthew 24:29-30KJV
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Now its just copy and paste - sad really.
If only would you acknowledge Daniel 2 & 7 are continuous historic revelations we could push on into the Revelation and there you could really learn the Masters final message to all those generations of the "things which must shortly come to pass!"
F2F