The Future Great Tribulation Is 3.5 Years Long, The Beast And Two Witnesses Will Be On This Earth In Power Until The End

[Timtofly]

4.) Does The 2nd Woe Take Place In The Great Earthquake "The Same Hour" The Two Witnesses Are Raised As Seen In Verse 13 Below 100% "Yes"

NO!

Revelation is not always chronological.

The 7th Trumpet does not sound after that earthquake, which is the same one in Revelation 16.

The 7th Trumpet sounds before the 2 witnesses even start. The first part of the chapter is a parenthetical describing events after the 7th Trumpet. Just like 10 is part of the same parenthetical about the days of the 7th Trumpet.

The 7th Trumpet is before the 42 months in Revelation 13.

The 2 witnesses are in the same 42 months as the 42 months in Revelation 13. That 42 months is the 3rd woe.

Satan's 42 months is 3.5 days after the 7th Trumpet starts to sound.

The earthquake is the 7th vial poured out, just after the 2 witnesses are brought to life and ascend into heaven.

The 6 vials are poured out during those same 3.5 days the 2 witnesses are laying there dead in Jerusalem.

The vials happen after the 42 months. The 2 witnesses are killed after the 42 months. The earthquake is after the 42 months. Even Armageddon is after the 42 months.

But the 7th Trumpet sounds before the 42 months, because the 42 months are the 3rd woe.

 

[Timtofly]

They that dwell upon earth will also rejoice on that day because Lucifer,king of Babylon falls on that day..

Nope!

The battle of Armageddon is after those 2 witnesses ascend into heaven. This is a resurrection Sunday morning, 3.5 days after they are killed on Wednesday.

Armageddon happens between 5pm and 6pm on Sunday. 6pm starts the Millennial Kingdom.

 

[Truth7t7]

NO!

Revelation is not always chronological.

The 7th Trumpet does not sound after that earthquake, which is the same one in Revelation 16.

The 7th Trumpet sounds before the 2 witnesses even start. The first part of the chapter is a parenthetical describing events after the 7th Trumpet. Just like 10 is part of the same parenthetical about the days of the 7th Trumpet.

The 7th Trumpet is before the 42 months in Revelation 13.

The 2 witnesses are in the same 42 months as the 42 months in Revelation 13. That 42 months is the 3rd woe.

Satan's 42 months is 3.5 days after the 7th Trumpet starts to sound.

The earthquake is the 7th vial poured out, just after the 2 witnesses are brought to life and ascend into heaven.

The 6 vials are poured out during those same 3.5 days the 2 witnesses are laying there dead in Jerusalem.

The vials happen after the 42 months. The 2 witnesses are killed after the 42 months. The earthquake is after the 42 months. Even Armageddon is after the 42 months.

But the 7th Trumpet sounds before the 42 months, because the 42 months are the 3rd woe.

I Disagree, the 2nd woe takes place the same hour of the great earthquake

 

[Davidpt]

I Disagree, the 2nd woe takes place the same hour of the great earthquake

IMO, everything pertaining to the 6th trumpet involves the 2nd woe, including the great earthquake in question and the 2Ws rising from the dead then ascending into heaven. None of that happens during the 3rd woe, the 7th trumpet.

Revelation 11:12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.


After all, it seems unreasonable to argue that verse 13 is meaning during the 2nd woe but verse 12 is meaning during the 3rd woe. Verse 13 says---And the same hour was there a great earthquake. What same hour? Obviously, meaning what happens in verse 12, in this same hour it is followed by a great earthquake. Something has to explain the same hour meant. Obviously then, if verse 13 is involving the 2nd woe then so is verse 12, because, once again, something has to explain what same hour is meant in verse 13, you would think.

 

[Truth7t7]

IMO, everything pertaining to the 6th trumpet involves the 2nd woe, including the great earthquake in question and the 2Ws rising from the dead then ascending into heaven. None of that happens during the 3rd woe, the 7th trumpet.

Revelation 11:12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.


After all, it seems unreasonable to argue that verse 13 is meaning during the 2nd woe but verse 12 is meaning during the 3rd woe. Verse 13 says---And the same hour was there a great earthquake. What same hour? Obviously, meaning what happens in verse 12, in this same hour it is followed by a great earthquake. Something has to explain the same hour meant. Obviously then, if verse 13 is involving the 2nd woe then so is verse 12, because, once again, something has to explain what same hour is meant in verse 13, you would think.

I Agree 100%

 

[Timtofly]

The world will be making merry, celebrating, exchanging presents for the 3 1/2 days the two witnesses bodies lay dead in the streets of Jerusalem. So what will be condition of the world in it's final hours of the great tribulation ?

A third of mankind will be getting destroyed by the huge armies of 200,000,000. And you think that the world will be making merry, celebrating, exchanging presents with one another - at that time ?

What these people are doing does not mean things are going great.

Don't you think that people living in thatched roof houses in Papua New Guinea in the poorest of conditions, and literally nothing but livestock and clothes, do not know how to give gifts and have celebrations?

These people will all have the mark of the beast, and living in the utmost abomination killing and being killed, as civilization as we know it, no longer exists, but they can still celebrate and give each other gifts. That has been normal even in the worst of conditions.

 

[Timtofly]

The people who are beheaded (as John the Baptist was beheaded)are the followers of Jesus who are preaching the gospel.

The two witnesses are not beheaded nor are they killed for preaching the gospel.They are killed because they torment people.They recieve some of what they dished out.

I never said that.

I said the army of the 2 witnesses are all the beheaded souls.

You called them generals of an army.

I never said the generals were beheaded. Their army was of those who chose to be beheaded as a testimony to God. Once they were beheaded they were part of God's army, and no longer a slave to sin, and given the mark.

The 2 witnesses were sent against those with the mark. That is why those with the mark celebrated, because the 2 witnesses were killed.

That only lasted until the first vial was poured out, and then the 3 day countdown to Armageddon began.

 

[Douggg]

Don't you think that people living in thatched roof houses in Papua New Guinea in the poorest of conditions, and literally nothing but livestock and clothes, do not know how to give gifts and have celebrations?

The conditions at the end of the great tribulation is not issue of being in poverty or not, but being in condition sickness, starvation, thirst, with death all around.

 

[tailgator]

I never said that.

I said the army of the 2 witnesses are all the beheaded souls.

You called them generals of an army.

I never said the generals were beheaded. Their army was of those who chose to be beheaded as a testimony to God. Once they were beheaded they were part of God's army, and no longer a slave to sin, and given the mark.

The 2 witnesses were sent against those with the mark. That is why those with the mark celebrated, because the 2 witnesses were killed.

That only lasted until the first vial was poured out, and then the 3 day countdown to Armageddon began.

No,the armed forces occupying Israel are not beheaded for their testimony of Jesus .

The king of the south attacks the king of the norths armed forces stationed in Israel and kills them at the time of the end.


This is when the two witnesses and their army under them is killed in verse 40.

Daniel 11:39-49
39 He will attack the mightiest fortresses with the help of a foreign god and will greatly honor those who acknowledge him. He will make them rulers over many people and will distribute the land at a price.[d]

40 “At the time of the end the king of the South will engage him in battle, and the king of the North will storm out against him with chariots and cavalry and a great fleet of ships. He will invade many countries and sweep through them like a flood.

 

[Douggg]

The two witnesses will be killed by the beast on day 1260. Then ascend to heaven on day 1263 1/2.

 

[ewq1938]

The two witnesses will be killed by the beast on day 1260. Then ascend to heaven on day 1263 1/2.

That's more than 3.5 days plus they rise the same day the 7th trump sounds and that's the end of the 42 months. There is no such thing in the NT as the beast having more than 42 months. You are forcing things from the OT into NT prophecy, where they do not match or fit.

 

[Timtofly]

PS
The beast that ascends out of the bottomless pit,is not the beast that came out of the sea.
They are in the same kingdom but not the same beast.

There is no individual called "the beast out of the sea". The 7 headed sea beast is the same as the the 7 headed dragon, and the 7 headed scarlet colored beast. They are 6 earthly kingdoms starting with Babylon of Daniel 2, until the Second Coming. Satan is the 7th head giving all his power to these earthly kingdoms. Even healing the 6th one at some point, that has not happened yet.

So the symbolism is that Satan is behind these human governments, but not the Kingdoms. The beast of the pit is Satan, and is one of the symbolic heads.

When the dragon is bound in the pit that means all form of human government, and sin have been done away with, and Satan can no longer deceive and control humans.

 

[tailgator]

There is no individual called "the beast out of the sea". The 7 headed sea beast is the same as the the 7 headed dragon, and the 7 headed scarlet colored beast. They are 6 earthly kingdoms starting with Babylon of Daniel 2, until the Second Coming. Satan is the 7th head giving all his power to these earthly kingdoms. Even healing the 6th one at some point, that has not happened yet.

So the symbolism is that Satan is behind these human governments, but not the Kingdoms. The beast of the pit is Satan, and is one of the symbolic heads.

When the dragon is bound in the pit that means all form of human government, and sin have been done away with, and Satan can no longer deceive and control humans.

False
The first beast with seven heads came up out of the sea.Thosbos the beast which received a deadly wound.

The last beast ,comes up out of the abyss .


As is Daniel .There are ten horns who have one mind.
Then there is a little horn diverse from.the first.The little horn which persecutes the saints is not the same as the ten horns .The ten horns attack Babylon.The little horn is the king of Babylon.


The dragon which attempted to kill the child in revelation 12 was Herod,.

 

[Timtofly]

If Jesus is on the earth at the time, why do the 2Ws need to ascend to heaven? Jesus wouldn't even be there per this scenario. So much for any of the following being literally true if anyone leaves Jesus presence after He has returned, rather than continuing in His presence after He has returned.

John 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again , and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also


1 Thessalonians 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord

Jesus has left the earth, at the point Satan becomes King. Jesus is seen waiting on heavenly Mount Zion for those 42 months the 2 witnesses are being a pain for Satan's mystery Babylon.

The 2 witnesses are not on earth during the Seals, Trumpets, and Thunders as included in their 1260 days. Their 1260 days starts 3.5 days after the 7th Trumpet starts to sound.

They would only have the 7 days of the 7th Trumpet. But the 7 days are split in half, and the last 3.5 days of the week of the 7th Trumpet, is when they are dead on the streets of Jerusalem.

If Satan is the 8th kingdom, then Jesus was only King for 3.5 days, and then left earth, 3.5 days after the 7th Trumpet. That is why in Revelation 19 there is a return on white horses. They left on white horses is the assumption of where those white horses came from they return on. But Jesus and the angels had already been on the earth from the 6th Seal, as John wrote in Revelation 6. The final harvest and the sheep and goat judgment happened on earth during the Trumpets and Thunders. Jesus was King in Israel, but not King over every nation until the 7th Trumpet.

The 2 witnesses ascend to heaven and return the same day, with Jesus, like Jesus ascended on Resurrection Sunday, and then returned later that same day.

 

[Timtofly]

Perhaps you did not understand me.

Jerusalem does not kill false prophets who prophecy of peace and safety.
They kill saints who tell them to repent.



1 Thes 5:3
3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

Israel does not kill the 2 witnesses.

Satan kills the 2 witnesses.

 

[tailgator]

Israel does not kill the 2 witnesses.

Satan kills the 2 witnesses.

The point is,Jerusalem does not kill the two witnesses.You miss the point.


Mathew
34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:

35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.

36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.

37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.

39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

 

[Timtofly]

I Disagree, the 2nd woe takes place the same hour of the great earthquake

You can disagree all you want, but the 2nd woe, was back at the 6th Trumpet in Revelation 9, and you have the 2 witnesses dead before the 7th Trumpet sounds. The 2 witnesses do not even start until after the 7th Trumpet, and Satan gets his 42 months. None of the first 6 Trumpets, and 7 Thunders happen after the 7th Trumpet.

Satan's 42 months are not during the Trumpets and Thunders, but after the 7th Trumpet.

Quote Revelation 9 where there is a great earthquake.

The earthquake is the 7th vial after the 42 months are over: Revelation 16:17-18

"And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done. And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great."

The same earthquake from Revelation 11, after the 7th Trumpet, and Revelation 13. Revelation 13 starts Satan's 42 months. The vials are poured out while the 2 witnesses lay dead for 3.5 days. Then the 7th vial happens just after they ascend into heaven.

"And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon. And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them. And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them. And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done. And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great. And the same hour was there a great earthquake." (just after the 2 witnesses leave earth)

Revelation 11 is from God's perspective:

"and the tenth (the tithe) part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven."

Revelation 16 is from man's perspective of the punishment owed to them.

"And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath."

 

[Timtofly]

IMO, everything pertaining to the 6th trumpet involves the 2nd woe, including the great earthquake in question and the 2Ws rising from the dead then ascending into heaven. None of that happens during the 3rd woe, the 7th trumpet.

The 2nd woe was over before or during the 7 Thunders. You should have all 7 of those events as being over, before the 2 witnesses can start, while the Gentiles trample the Temple for 42 months. This 42 months is after the 7th Trumpet, not before. The earthquake is after the 7th vial, not before the 7th Trumpet/3rd woe. The 3rd woe are those 42 months of Satan's mystery Babylon, when the Temple is trampled under foot.

The first part of chapter 11, is a parenthetical, not part of the chronological order between the 7th Thunder and the 7th Trumpet.

Chapter 11, all of it is describing the 7th Trumpet period of time. So is the last half of chapter 12, since Satan and his angels are cast out of heaven as part of the 7th Trumpet events.

 

[Timtofly]

The conditions at the end of the great tribulation is not issue of being in poverty or not, but being in condition sickness, starvation, thirst, with death all around.

No, it means living in the stone age, because all the works of humanity have been burned up at the 6th Seal. We are back to the stone age and those in Papua New Guinea are more prepared than those in 1st world nations.

 

[ewq1938]

No, it means living in the stone age, because all the works of humanity have been burned up at the 6th Seal.

The text of the 6th seal doesn't mention anything like that, nor fire or burning of any kind either.

Rev 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
Rev 6:13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
Rev 6:14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
Rev 6:15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
Rev 6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
Rev 6:17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?