We’re the two witnesses from the past?

[Truth7t7]

For everyone else,

I feel oblidged to show the correct interpratation of Daniel 9:24

What do you think was the end of Israels trasngression? Clearly the end of their transgression was the putting to death of the Son of God. The crucifixion of Christ was the culmination of their transgression against God. Their rebellion against God would be "restricted" or controlled by bringing that age to an end. Christ challenged them to fulfil these terms: "Fill you up then the measure of your fathers" (Matt 23:32). @Truth7t7 - its important to look at the Masters teachings when interpreting prophecy - plenty of clues are given! Further to this at the trial of Jesus, the heaven-sent King of the Jews, the people shouted "Away with him; crucify him; we will not have this man to rule over us." They preferred the Roman Caesar, and this decision concluded the period of Divine mercy. Therefore in terms of interpreting this section the historical order is outlined clearly. Their rejection and crucifixtion of Christ is the end of Israels transgression.

When do you believe God put an end to sin?

Again, This was accomplished by the Lord individually at his first coming, when his offering superseded those under the Law. Concerning offerings for sins, for both priest and people, Christ offered "once, when he offered up himself" (Read Heb 7:27), and that was "at the end of the age when he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself" (Read Hebrews 9:26). Christ's work as the sin offering was "sealed up" or completed by his resurrection (Read Romans 1:4-5; 4:24-25; Heb. 10:14, 18; 9:14-15).

@Truth7t7 I'm sure you cannot provide pin point events which answer to this prophecy which also answer to Daniel 9:15-16 in regards to their sins and their city! It's all there is you look!

And when did God atone for iniquity ?

Jesus would become the covering for sin. Context is found in Daniel 9:16 when he sought the forgiveness of his people. Gabriel now reveals the means by which this would be accomplished: through Messiah the Prince.

In an ultimate sense when will God through Christ bring in everlasting righteousness and unseal the vision and the prophet, to anoint the most Holy Place?

The atoning work of Christ would not only cover sins, but also provide a justification for "the ages" (Heb. olahm, "everlasting"). Olahm refers to a concealed, or hidden period.

It would be an injustice to the text to try an force these clear prophetic principles to Christ's second coming having seen the fulfillment in the life, death and ressurection of Jesus Christ and the destruction of Jerusalem in Ad70.

Logic and common sense must previal.

F2F

You feel obliged to show the standard reformed preterist interpretation

Your claims are false, the prince to come destroys the city and causes abomination and desolation up to the "Consummation" or the "Ultimate End", you give complete disregard to this fact in scripture, as the "Consummation" is future unfulfilled

Daniel's AOD is future, and the bad guy causing the Abomination and Desolation will be present on earth to the "Consummation" Ultimate End

"Future" Events Unfulfilled

This "Future" figure will be present on earth making (Abomination & Desolation) to the (Consummation) or (The Ultimate End) "Future" Event(s) Unfulfilled

(The Future Consummation)

2 Peter 3:10KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Merriam-Webster
Definition of consummation

1: the act of consummating the consummation of a contract by mutual signature specifically : the consummating of a marriage
2: the ultimate end

Daniel's AOD (Even Until The Consummation) "Future"!

Daniel 9:27KJV
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

 

[face2face]

@Truth7t7 #215
Do you treat Daniel 2 & 7 as continous historic or future?

 

[Truth7t7]

@Truth7t7 #215
Do you treat Daniel 2 & 7 as continous historic or future?

Is that seen below in Daniel chapter 7 future in your interpretation?

Daniel's (Little Horn) Present On Earth At The Second Coming

Daniel 7:8-11KJV
8 I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.
9 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.
10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.
11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.

 

[face2face]

Daniel 9:27KJV
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

With the continuous historical interpretation, you are looking for a date stamp, as to when these things happened, or are yet to happen (future). All prophecy is future; its a matter of identifying what has already been fulfilled.

When did God "put an end to sacrifice and offering"

F2F

 

[face2face]

Is that seen below in Daniel chapter 7 future in your interpretation?

Daniel's (Little Horn) Present On Earth At The Second Coming

Daniel 7:8-11KJV
8 I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.
9 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.
10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.
11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.

You could not answer a simple question.

Do you see Daniel 2 & Daniel 7 as continuous historic?

Yes of no?

Dont run off with verse 8-11 (that doesnt look honest on your part!)

 

[Truth7t7]

@Truth7t7 #215
Do you treat Daniel 2 & 7 as continous historic or future?

Daniel 2:44 below is future unfulfilled

Daniel 2:44KJV
44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

Revelation 11:15KJV
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

 

[Truth7t7]

With the continuous historical interpretation, you are looking for a date stamp, as to when these things happened, or are yet to happen (future). All prophecy is future; its a matter of identifying what has already been fulfilled.

When did God "put an end to sacrifice and offering"

F2F

When has the consummation taken place, with the "He" being present making abomination and desolation?

When in history did it take 434 years to build a wall and street?

The time stamp is found in the words (Even Until The Consummation) this is a future event unfulfilled, something you ignore as non-existent in scripture "Why"?

 

[face2face]

Daniel 2:44 below is future unfulfilled

Daniel 2:44KJV
44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

I (and no doubt others) can see you running off to verses in Daniel 2 & Daniel 7 to find small sections which are unfulfilled - well done!

It just happens you choose the end of the History being revealed - ironic I know ;)

Compare this statement with that made by Daniel to Nebuchadnezzar in Daniel 2:37.

Context is KING

Your Majesty, you are the king of kings. The God of heaven has given you dominion and power and might and glory;in your hands he has placed all mankind and the beasts of the field and the birds in the sky. Wherever they live, he has made you ruler over them all. You are that head of gold.

There he declared that the God of heaven had given power to the King of Babylon; then he warned that the same God will transfer that power to another inferior kingdom and another and so on (continuous historic!);

The verse you posted predicts that He will extend His OWN power to set up his OWN Kingdom on earth.

So I have a basic question for you 7

Why did you not take me to the Head of Gold (Babylon) in Daniel 2?
Why did you take me to the final establishment of His Kingdom on Earth?

The prophecy starts with Babylon and ends with Gods Kingdom - its in order of time - Historically recorded for your learning....so why do you resist?

F2F

 

[face2face]

When has the consummation taken place, with the "He" being present making abomination and desolation?

When in history did it take 434 years to build a wall and street?

The time stamp is found in the words (Even Until The Consummation) this is a future event unfulfilled, something you ignore as non-existent in scripture "Why"?

Wow.
The end of sacrifice and offerings took place with the Temple was destroyed and all the instruments carried away too far off lands. You know this is true! They sowed Jerusalem with salt! They abomination of desolation stood in the Holy Place. Titus entered the Holy of Holies. The Jews ate their own young! This is the judgement being poured out on Israel for their rejection of God and His Son.
It cannot be more clearer.
F2F

 

[Truth7t7]

You could not answer a simple question.

Do you see Daniel 2 & Daniel 7 as continuous historic?

Yes of no?

Dont run off with verse 8-11 (that doesnt look honest on your part!)

"NO" Daniel 2:44 & Daniel 7:8-11 are future, you can't put a blanket statement on a complete chapter

 

[face2face]

The time stamp is found in the words (Even Until The Consummation) this is a future event unfulfilled, something you ignore as non-existent in scripture "Why"?

I will deal with this in good time...I'm searching for honesty from you and I'm not getting it.

 

[face2face]

"NO" Daniel 2:44 & Daniel 7:8-11 are future, you can't put a blanket statement on a complete chapter

Is the Babylonian empire still future 7?

 

[Truth7t7]

I (and no doubt others) can see you running off to verses in Daniel 2 & Daniel 7 to find small sections which are unfulfilled - well done!

It just happens you choose the end of the History being revealed - ironic I know ;)

Compare this statement with that made by Daniel to Nebuchadnezzar in Daniel 2:37.

Context is KING

Your Majesty, you are the king of kings. The God of heaven has given you dominion and power and might and glory;in your hands he has placed all mankind and the beasts of the field and the birds in the sky. Wherever they live, he has made you ruler over them all. You are that head of gold.

There he declared that the God of heaven had given power to the King of Babylon; then he warned that the same God will transfer that power to another inferior kingdom and another and so on (continuous historic!);

The verse you posted predicts that He will extend His OWN power to set up his OWN Kingdom on earth.

So I have a basic question for you 7

Why did you not take me to the Head of Gold (Babylon) in Daniel 2?
Why did you take me to the final establishment of His Kingdom on Earth?

The prophecy starts with Babylon and ends with Gods Kingdom - its in order of time - Historically recorded for your learning....so why do you resist?

F2F

Showing a historical account in the scripture doesn't validate the teachings found in reformed preterist historicism

You still haven't acknowledged a supposed wall and street taking 434 years to build according to your interpretation, where in history did that take place?

Don't forget the words (Even Until The Consummation) something you ignore "Why"?

 

[face2face]

"NO" Daniel 2:44 & Daniel 7:8-11 are future, you can't put a blanket statement on a complete chapter

Do me a favour.
Explain how many empires are stated in Dan 2 and tell of the duration?
Are they listed in order?
What time frame do the span?
Where does the prophecy start and where does it finish? Are these empires one after another given in order?
F2F

 

[face2face]

Showing a historical account in the scripture doesn't validate the teachings found in reformed preterist historicism

Right, at last, you have mentoned "historical account" might be a start! - I'll allow you to answer the last post.

 

[face2face]

For everyone,

Daniel 2:44 teaches Christians who believe in Heaven going that this is not the reward of the Saints. The Kingdom of God on Earth is their reward.

And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

So this future Kingdom ruled over by Christ and the SAints cannot be left to other peoples, there will be no transference of power as has happened in the past (empires), requiring the various metals to form the Image. Its rulers will be immortal.

@Truth7t7 the blue text is also continuous historic and will see Christ and the saints march the earth breaking in pieces the remnant of the kingdoms of men (i.e Babylon, Medes/Persians/Greeks/ Romans) in the earth.

That one verse spans 1000's of years of history - some behind us and some in front of us - all continous historic!

 

[face2face]

Don't forget the words (Even Until The Consummation) something you ignore "Why"?

And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate. Dan 9:27

You wish to blanket everything as future, when I am saying everything in Daniel and the Revelation is recorded as continous historic - I've already proven this and I will do so again.

When did God confirm the convenant?

Also, the one week is not a literal one week 7, it represents the final seven years of the "70 week prophecy"

When did God confirm the convenant?

If you say the covenant has not been confirmed yet, we need to end this conversation and move on!

F2F

Tip: Hebrews 13:20 (after this we can more through the verse to see the fulfillment as we move closer to the consummation)

 

[Truth7t7]

For everyone,

Daniel 2:44 teaches Christians who believe in Heaven going that this is not the reward of the Saints. The Kingdom of God on Earth is their reward.

Do you deny a "Future" New Heaven and Earth, Revelation 21:1-5?

Revelation 21:1-5KJV
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

 

[Truth7t7]

And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate. Dan 9:27

You wish to blanket everything as future, when I am saying everything in Daniel and the Revelation is recorded as continous historic - I've already proven this and I will do so again.

When did God confirm the convenant?

Also, the one week is not a literal one week 7, it represents the final seven years of the "70 week prophecy"

When did God confirm the convenant?

If you say the covenant has not been confirmed yet, we need to end this conversation and move on!

F2F

Tip: Hebrews 13:20 (after this we can more through the verse to see the fulfillment as we move closer to the consummation)

Your claims are false, the prince to come destroys the city and causes abomination and desolation up to the "Consummation" or the "Ultimate End", you give complete disregard to this fact in scripture, as the "Consummation" is future unfulfilled

Daniel's AOD is future, and the bad guy causing the Abomination and Desolation will be present on earth to the "Consummation" Ultimate End

"Future" Events Unfulfilled

This "Future" figure will be present on earth making (Abomination & Desolation) to the (Consummation) or (The Ultimate End) "Future" Event(s) Unfulfilled

(The Future Consummation)

2 Peter 3:10KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Merriam-Webster
Definition of consummation

1: the act of consummating the consummation of a contract by mutual signature specifically : the consummating of a marriage
2: the ultimate end

Daniel's AOD (Even Until The Consummation) "Future"!

Daniel 9:27KJV
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

 

[Truth7t7]

And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate. Dan 9:27

When did God confirm the convenant?

The "He" seen below isn't God as you claim, it's (the prince) that destroys the city and makes abomination and desolation up to the "Consummation"

Daniel 9:26-27KJV
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.