Tradition Versus Scripture

[Behold]

I doubt that the average person looking at this icon would even have been aware of all that is represented in it. (I was aware of some of it, but not all of it.)

The ever evolving Idolization of "Mary Mother of God" that the "cult of the virgin" keeps expanding, is proof that the power of deception is always going on and on and on.

Having said that.........some of my Favorite "Saints"... were Catholics... and that is become some of them, were deeply deeply involved with the Spirit of God, even tho their Theology is literally man-made heresy and mostly Legalistic trash.

So, if the Reader decides to Study the Lives of some like...

St. Francis
St Bernadette
Hildegard of Bingen

Then when you run into their "Cult of the Virgin" theology, just skip it........ ignore it........ and only notice and study their devout immersion into God as often this led them to have some very useful insight that you'll appreciate.

 

[Matthias]

The ever evolving Idolization of "Mary Mother of God" that the "cult of the virgin" keeps expanding, is proof that the power of deception is always going on and on and on.

Having said that.........some of my Favorite "Saints"... were Catholics... and that is become some of them, were deeply deeply involved with the Spirit of God, even tho their Theology is literally heresy and Legalistic trash.

So, if the Reader decides to Study the Lives of some like...

St. Francis
St Bernadette


Then when you run into their "Cult of the Virgin" theology, just skip it........ ignore it........ and only notice and study their devout immersion into God.

Art appreciation. I learned something about the icon. Others can learn something about it too.

Lots of deception in the artwork, is there? Well, now. That’s going well beyond what I had in mind when I posted it.

 

[Behold]

That’s going well beyond what I had in mind when I posted it.

Perhaps you could post "in light of that", regarding anything else you post?

Consider it.

 

[Matthias]

Perhaps you could post "in light of that", regarding anything else you post?

Consider it.

I don’t know what you’re talking about. If you want me to consider doing something then you’ll have to spell it out for me.

 

[Behold]

I don’t know what you’re talking about. If you want me to consider doing something then you’ll have to spell it out for me.

Ok.. @Matthias

Lets say you were on a Christian forum, and you only wanted to post what is TRUTH, and is also going to encourage and uplift, as well as spotlight deception. and ... = All of this for the Benefit of the Christians.

(Christian Forum).

So, having that as your aim, goal, .. you would then consider that some topics, do the opposite, so you would not post those Topics.

Now, it can be that a person can post about "Mary devotion" or "Calvinism obsession" or similar, and it become a solid value, if it leads the reader to clearly perceive those topics to be spiritual poison and demonic heresy. = to be avoided.
So in that case.. you could post a photo of The Pope worshiping a very tall plastic Mary, and write..

"notice there is no Jesus in the Photo".

So, that is how to teach against Mary Worship, yet, using Catholicism.., and in this way you protect the CHRISTian from a CULT deception, is the GOAL, is the MINISTRY... is the Mission.

Like this.
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[Matthias]

Ok.. @Matthias

Lets say you were on a Christian forum, and you only wanted to post what is TRUTH, and is also going to encourage and uplift, as well as spotlight deception. and ... = All of this for the Benefit of the Christians.

(Christian Forum).

So, having that as your aim, goal, .. you would then consider that some topics, do the opposite, so you would not post those Topics.

Now, it can be that a person can post about "Mary devotion" or "Calvinism obsession" or similar, and it become a solid value, if it leads the reader to clearly perceive those topics to be spiritual poison and demonic heresy. = to be avoided.
So in that case.. you could post a photo of The Pope worshiping a very tall plastic Mary, and write..

"notice there is no Jesus in the Photo".

So, that is how to teach against Mary Worship, yet, using Catholicism.., and in this way you protect the CHRISTian from a CULT deception, is the GOAL, is the MINISTRY... is the Mission.

Like this.
-
-
View attachment 46959View attachment 46960

Thanks for the clarification.

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

I doubt that the average person looking at this icon would even have been aware of all that is represented in it. (I was aware of some of it, but not all of it.)

Thinking in the exchange I had with @Wrangler on religious ideas appearing as a reaction to the abuse of other ideas, or as the outcome of not having a good reason to abandon an idea cherished for a long time by the new believer...

When a Catholic looks at this icon (or other kind of artwork connecting at a deeper level with his emotions) what he sees is the female, motherly attributes of God that such person needs, and that were neglected somehow during the traditional presentation of God as a male, fatherly figure, a judge and a leader of armies.

Psychologically, children need a mother as much as they need a father. Probably more a mother. As we grow up, our psychological dependence wanes, but does not disappear altogether. We, men, look for some motherly traits in our wife, and women look for some fatherly traits in her husband.

Now I realize that Islam, at least at the beginning, made a huge contribution to religious thought by de-emphasizing the notion of God as Father.
Allah is a Supreme Being beyond any comparison or "association" (as Muslims call it) with any other being or manmade representation.
Allah is neither a father nor a mother, and that's why Allah does not beget children (neither Jesus, nor human beings, nor angels).

While praising Mary in a very explicit way, Islam didn't leave a gap to be filled by a female intercessor or protector up in heaven.
At the time statues of Mary and the saints started to flood the churches in Europe, competing for believer's devotion, Islam brought people to kneel towards an invisible point, representing the revelation of God and unity around that revelation.

 

[Wrangler]

Psychologically, children need a mother as much as they need a father. Probably more a mother.

Dead wrong. Physically, children need to be suckled by their mother.

Psychologically, the need for the father is a matter of life and death; life of good character or its death. Ever hear the terms patronize and matronize? A mother's psychological orientation is to protect the baby, and indeed, to infantilize the growing child, so strong is the maternal instinct. Always the mother fosters psychological dependence. You are not old enough, big enough to do X, let mommy do that for you.

The father's psychological orientation is to recognize the child is weened from the mother's breast and no longer a baby. The appearance of teeth is the physical manifestation that the baby is dead. In it's place is a child who offers this to the father; an opportunity to teach him the ways of the world and how to successfully navigate it. The father instills confidence by having high expectations. You are old enough, big enough to do X!

In the great book by John Eldredge, Fathered by God, he laments that western civilization has abandoned rites of passage from boyhood to manhood. Some tribes in Africa do not allow a teen to date until he has killed his first lion. Eldredge says a mother cannot show a boy how to be a man; masculinity can only be bestowed. Again, in some places the men in the village knock on the door of a boys home, informing the mother that it is time for the boy to leave the home to join them (including his father) in the hunt, marking his entry into manhood. There is no petition to force their hand and no denying the command. It is time to leave childish ways behind and learn and master the ways of the world.

For girls, the psychological importance of the father is even more important. Studies show the strongest correlation with promiscuity, teen pregnancy and low self esteem with the father's absence. Years ago, my first wife lamented learning that girls get their self esteem from their father. Jealous of my influence, she reflexively asked why not the mother?

I took my wife and 9 yo daughter backpacking. My wife noticed with a smile my daughters stride. She walks like me, she observed. The strides exuded confidence and purpose. This is my lasting legacy.

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

Dead wrong. Physically, children need to be suckled by their mother.

Psychologically, the need for the father is a matter of life and death;

Very good observation. Thanks for the correction, Wrangler. I think you're right.
Children need a mother and a father. In general, no need is greater than the other.

 

[Wrangler]

Very good observation. Thanks for the correction, Wrangler. I think you're right.
Children need a mother and a father. In general, no need is greater than the other.

Again, that's simply not true. It's amazing how, in the face of presented facts, you disregard them to re-assert your ideal of equality. 1st, many say their wants are needs, which does not make it so. 2nd, is the survival Rule of 3's. 3 weeks without food. 3 days without water. 3 hours without shelter or fire. 3 minutes without air. 3 seconds without your head or throat. (The last implies in a battle zone, avoiding getting shot is a higher need, a greater survival priority than even breathing.)

I suppose our society embracing what I call THE PERVERION OF EQUALITY makes us biased to assigning equality where there is none. Yes, children need a mother and a father. I'll be the first to say that. However, assessing needs does not lend itself to automatic equality. The child would not exist nor survive without the father, being the life giver, and traditional provider and protector. These are the foundation upon which life itself and growth must take place.

I watched a vid a couple of years ago. The narrator observed there is nothing in this world that brings out the sense of vulnerability like a late term pregnant woman. She needs the father's traditional value and role of being her provider and protector. She would not live without it in earlier times.

I believe our society has become too civilized, too soft and have lost the ways of the world. The Law of the Jungle would pray on such woman - as we would prey on such animals so obviously encumbered. The weak of the herd is always culled. It is only civilization that men created that moves us from the edge of daily life and death struggles, masking the truth of inequality.