Tradition Versus Scripture

[Marymog]

Problem is the RCC have buried Christ Jesus and Paul under "catechisms and traditions"
J.

Sooooo when Paul wrote 2 Thessalonians 2:15 he DIDN'T want us to hold on to traditions??????????? And Paul wasn't inspired by Jesus??????


Oh goodness Johann........Read ALL of Scripture instead of the cherry-picked parts your Protestant men have told you to read.............

 

[Johann]

Sooooo when Paul wrote 2 Thessalonians 2:15 he DIDN'T want us to hold on to traditions??????????? And Paul wasn't inspired by Jesus??????


Oh goodness Johann........Read ALL of Scripture instead of the cherry-picked parts your Protestant men have told you to read.............

I'm familiar with your arguments-per kind favor of Home - staycatholic.com and still say a baby-not knowing his left from his right CANNOT be justified or regenerated by sprinkling with water.
You have to show me that in Scriptures-not the Church fathers.

I have given you the arguments-since you cannot show me WHERE it stands written-Perfect Tense.
Instead of looking at the "Fathers" you need to go back a little further-think East-not West.

As to cherry picking verses, a wrong assumption on your part.
Shalom
J.

 

[Johann]

Sooooo when Paul wrote 2 Thessalonians 2:15 he DIDN'T want us to hold on to traditions??????????? And Paul wasn't inspired by Jesus??????


Oh goodness Johann........Read ALL of Scripture instead of the cherry-picked parts your Protestant men have told you to read.............

And-I do believe I have answered you on 2 Thess 2:15-so no need to repeat myself again.
Just go to my profile and see my posts.
Shalom
J.

 

[amigo de christo]

Yup brokelite, if you cherry pick scripture to support what you believe then you and @amigo de christo and the Protestant men who teach you will always be right.

Soooooooooooo are either of you going to address the other passages from Scripture that says that the promise is for CHILDREN also? Jesus said, Let the children come to me, and do not hinder them; for to such belongs the kingdom of heaven” (Matt. 19:14). Brokelite and amigo say do not let the children come to me because the promise is not for them............. Jesus said Baptize ALL (Matthew 28:19) and Scripture says baptism now saves you (1 peter 3:21) but Brokelite and amigo say baptize only adults and baptism doesn't save infants. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm....you teach opposite of Scripture. What does Scripture say about those who teach opposite of Scripture??????????????

Are you EVER going to address the passages that say entire families were baptized???????????????? Do you have PROOF that infants were NOT part of entire families??????????????? You don't.........sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo shouldn't you just stop giving your opinion????????? You haven't addressed that, and you can't because you KNOW that you have cherry picked Scripture to support what YOU believe or what your Protestant men have taught you.......You keep dodging it kiddo! WHY?????????


The two of you crack me up............

Amigo never once said baptize ADULTS Only . Just that those being baptized MUST BELIEVE .
that be the key . IF ONE BELIEVES they may be baptized . Lets not put words in others mouths

 

[Brakelite]

Yup brokelite, if you cherry pick scripture to support what you believe then you and @amigo de christo and the Protestant men who teach you will always be right.

Soooooooooooo are either of you going to address the other passages from Scripture that says that the promise is for CHILDREN also? Jesus said, Let the children come to me, and do not hinder them; for to such belongs the kingdom of heaven” (Matt. 19:14). Brokelite and amigo say do not let the children come to me because the promise is not for them............. Jesus said Baptize ALL (Matthew 28:19) and Scripture says baptism now saves you (1 peter 3:21) but Brokelite and amigo say baptize only adults and baptism doesn't save infants. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm....you teach opposite of Scripture. What does Scripture say about those who teach opposite of Scripture??????????????

Are you EVER going to address the passages that say entire families were baptized???????????????? Do you have PROOF that infants were NOT part of entire families??????????????? You don't.........sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo shouldn't you just stop giving your opinion????????? You haven't addressed that, and you can't because you KNOW that you have cherry picked Scripture to support what YOU believe or what your Protestant men have taught you.......You keep dodging it kiddo! WHY?????????


The two of you crack me up............

I will ask you a question or two. . Which men taught you that one didn't have to believe in Christ, or repent of sin, in order to be baptized.. and who taught them?
Second, are you aware that the above is what you are stridently advocating, and are you aware of how little sense it makes... Not having to believe in Jesus death or resurrection, but yet partake of baptism which is a symbolic demonstration of accepting the same? Totally illogical.
Third question. What proof do you have from scripture that those who taught you are right? You might accuse me of cherry picking, but at least I do have some very ripe tasty cherries, and they are the real thing... The word of God.
Fourth question. Where is the quote please from either myself or anyone else that said we are against children coming to Christ? The scriptures clearly require parents to lead their children to Jesus. However, that does not mean they are too be baptized before they are cognisant off its meaning.
Fifth question. Which is rhetorical. Why do the Catholics on this forum resort to ad hominem when they run out of sound arguments?

 

[The Learner]

no he wasn't.

another thread I am not going to keep up ahhhhh

 

[Marymog]

I will ask you a question or two. . Which men taught you that one didn't have to believe in Christ, or repent of sin, in order to be baptized.. and who taught them?
Second, are you aware that the above is what you are stridently advocating, and are you aware of how little sense it makes... Not having to believe in Jesus death or resurrection, but yet partake of baptism which is a symbolic demonstration of accepting the same? Totally illogical.
Third question. What proof do you have from scripture that those who taught you are right? You might accuse me of cherry picking, but at least I do have some very ripe tasty cherries, and they are the real thing... The word of God.
Fourth question. Where is the quote please from either myself or anyone else that said we are against children coming to Christ? The scriptures clearly require parents to lead their children to Jesus. However, that does not mean they are too be baptized before they are cognisant off its meaning.
Fifth question. Which is rhetorical. Why do the Catholics on this forum resort to ad hominem when they run out of sound arguments?

Hey kiddo........Once you respond to the questions in my post I will respond to yours.

 

[Marymog]

Amigo never once said baptize ADULTS Only . Just that those being baptized MUST BELIEVE .
that be the key . IF ONE BELIEVES they may be baptized . Lets not put words in others mouths

You are right. You never said that.

However, Scripture doesn't support your opinion. And that is the subject at hand.....

 

[amigo de christo]

You are right. You never said that.

However, Scripture doesn't support your opinion. And that is the subject at hand.....

You sure about that . Better go and read you some bible . there is but one thing needed
in order to be baptized . and if one BELIEVES IT NOT , then that DOES hinder them from being baptized .
You go and examine well the eunach and phillip . take close heed and pay close heed
to a very important question .
It goes like this . SEE here is water , what does HINDER me from being baptized .
IF you BELIEVE ON THE LORD JESUS CHRIST with all your heart , YOU MAY BE .
Babies can barely grab hold of a pap , let alone UNDERSTAND and HAVE THAT KIND OF FAITH OR BELIEF .

 

[Brakelite]

Hey kiddo........Once you respond to the questions in my post I will respond to yours.

I did. Your entire thesis is hanging on a presumption...

Where is the quote please from either myself or anyone else that said we are against children coming to Christ? The scriptures clearly require parents to lead their children to Jesus. However, that does not mean they are to be baptized before they are old enough to understand it's meaning and significance.

 

[Marymog]

And-I do believe I have answered you on 2 Thess 2:15-so no need to repeat myself again.
Just go to my profile and see my posts.
Shalom
J.

Ok....went to your profile. Couldn't find what you are talking about.

Sooooo I still don't know what you believe!!

 

[Marymog]

I'm familiar with your arguments-per kind favor of Home - staycatholic.com and still say a baby-not knowing his left from his right CANNOT be justified or regenerated by sprinkling with water.
You have to show me that in Scriptures-not the Church fathers.

I have given you the arguments-since you cannot show me WHERE it stands written-Perfect Tense.
Instead of looking at the "Fathers" you need to go back a little further-think East-not West.

As to cherry picking verses, a wrong assumption on your part.
Shalom
J.

Hey Johann,

You are going to the wrong website if you are going to "staycatholic.com". Go to the source (The Holy See) instead of an associate of the source.

You have to show me in Scripture, not the writings of your 16th century Protestant men, where it says that "sprinkling" is prohibited. You can't.....can you?? You are relying on your men from the 16th century to support your opinion on baptism. I rely on men from the 2nd century and later.

In summary: If I repeat the Church Fathers interpretation of Scripture that makes me wrong! When you repeat the interpretation of the men of the 16th century.....you are right!!!! Fascinating.......

As to cherry picking: When you only quote the passages from Scripture that supports what you believe and ignore the passages the don't support what you believe...........THAT IS CHERRY PICKING!! And that is what you have done.

Shalom
M.

 

[Marymog]

You sure about that . Better go and read you some bible . there is but one thing needed
in order to be baptized . and if one BELIEVES IT NOT , then that DOES hinder them from being baptized .
You go and examine well the eunach and phillip . take close heed and pay close heed
to a very important question .
It goes like this . SEE here is water , what does HINDER me from being baptized .
IF you BELIEVE ON THE LORD JESUS CHRIST with all your heart , YOU MAY BE .
Babies can barely grab hold of a pap , let alone UNDERSTAND and HAVE THAT KIND OF FAITH OR BELIEF .

Yup, If you cherry pick Scripture, you are right and you will never be wrong.

Now I will cherry pick Scripture so that you are wrong and i am right: She was baptized, with her household” “the same hour of the night . . . the jailer was baptized, with all his family” “I did baptize also the household of Stephanas'

Nothing in those passages that said that the family believed before they were baptized. Nothing in those passages that said there were no infants. See, I am right and you are wrong!!!

Keeping it real....Mary

 

[Marymog]

I did. Your entire thesis is hanging on a presumption...

 

[amigo de christo]

Yup, If you cherry pick Scripture, you are right and you will never be wrong.

Now I will cherry pick Scripture so that you are wrong and i am right: She was baptized, with her household” “the same hour of the night . . . the jailer was baptized, with all his family” “I did baptize also the household of Stephanas'

Nothing in those passages that said that the family believed before they were baptized. Nothing in those passages that said there were no infants. See, I am right and you are wrong!!!

Keeping it real....Mary

you can bet that household BELIEVED . you assuming they baptized babies my friend .
but scrip dont contradict scrip .

 

[Johann]

Hey Johann,

You are going to the wrong website if you are going to "staycatholic.com". Go to the source (The Holy See) instead of an associate of the source.

You have to show me in Scripture, not the writings of your 16th century Protestant men, where it says that "sprinkling" is prohibited. You can't.....can you?? You are relying on your men from the 16th century to support your opinion on baptism. I rely on men from the 2nd century and later.

In summary: If I repeat the Church Fathers interpretation of Scripture that makes me wrong! When you repeat the interpretation of the men of the 16th century.....you are right!!!! Fascinating.......

As to cherry picking: When you only quote the passages from Scripture that supports what you believe and ignore the passages the don't support what you believe...........THAT IS CHERRY PICKING!! And that is what you have done.

Shalom
M.

I'm not here to Catholic bash anyone Mary-know why? They are our biggest helpers to my family.
Practical assistance-and if it wasn't for your Church and the Muslim Community- I would suffer-as this family is going through tumultuous times.

Show love-don't bash the Protestants or those you are not agreeing with.
Shalom.
Johann.

 

[amigo de christo]

I'm not here to Catholic bash anyone Mary-know why? They are our biggest helpers to my family.
Practical assistance-and if it wasn't for your Church and the Muslim Community- I would suffer-as this family is going through tumultuous times.
Shalom.
Johann.

Just cause GOD can use the ungodly to help the christain in no way means or makes them godly .
Many do many good things , but if one follows not and believeth not IN JESUS THE CHRIST , well they need be corrected .
GOD used some of the most ungodly to help even his own . but and this is one huge butt
IT DIDNT MEAN GOD was pleased with them ungodly . JUST means he used them to help his own .

 

[Johann]

Just cause GOD can use the ungodly to help the christain in no way means or makes them godly .
Many do many good things , but if one follows not and believeth not IN JESUS THE CHRIST , well they need be corrected .
GOD used some of the most ungodly to help even his own . but and this is one huge butt
IT DIDNT MEAN GOD was pleased with them ungodly . JUST means he used them to help his own .

I have seen genuine born again believers in the Catholic Church-here we are just pontificating and arguing-and don't assist those who are in need-the gospel is not in words only brother-unaccompanied with what really matters-it's just that-pontificating.
An aside-we don't know the hearts of people and the foundation of God stands sure and fast-the Lords knows them that belongs to Him-I am getting tired of the bickering and mud-slinging on THIS Forum.
Thanks
Johann.

 

[amigo de christo]

I have seen genuine born again believers in the Catholic Church-here we are just pontificating and arguing-and don't assist those who are in need-the gospel is not in words only brother-unaccompanied with what really matters-it's just that-pontificating.
An aside-we don't know the hearts of people and the foundation of God stands sure and fast-the Lords knows them that belongs to Him-I am getting tired of the bickering and mud-slinging on THIS Forum.
Thanks
Johann.

He who denies JESUS IS the CHRIST , is anti christ . As you well know my friend .
Now ask any muslim what jesus they believe in . ps you will find out fast why i did not capitalize that jesus too .
Be blessed my friend . Point to CHRIST till the last breath ebbs out of those lungs .
He who hears amen whoever forbears , its on them . BUT WE ISGONNA POINT TO THE GLORIOUS KING JESUS
and ER WORD of the LORD .

 

[amigo de christo]

I have seen genuine born again believers in the Catholic Church-here we are just pontificating and arguing-and don't assist those who are in need-the gospel is not in words only brother-unaccompanied with what really matters-it's just that-pontificating.
An aside-we don't know the hearts of people and the foundation of God stands sure and fast-the Lords knows them that belongs to Him-I am getting tired of the bickering and mud-slinging on THIS Forum.
Thanks
Johann.

OH i have seen born again within the Catholic church too, they dont tend to stay under it for very long .
God always pulls his sheep from any direction that guideth not TO HIM . But yes
i have met a few catholics , or i should say ex catholics . THEY came out in time .