To the only God our Savior

[Matthias]

What trinitarian sources?

I seldom quote any sources other than trinitarian sources in my conversations with trinitarians.

In this particular conversation I’m using trinitarian sources to establish what trinitarian orthodoxy is. I’m defending historical orthodox trinitarianism against the unorthodox trinitarian.

I’m also using trinitarian sources to establish the fact that Christianity began as a sect of Judaism and the earliest Christians were Jewish monotheists.

P.S.

The new rules prohibit any member who is registered “Christian” from speaking against orthodoxy.

 

[Pierac]

I seldom quote any sources other than trinitarian sources in my conversations with trinitarians.

In this particular conversation I’m using trinitarian sources to establish what trinitarian orthodoxy is. I’m defending historical orthodox trinitarianism against the unorthodox trinitarian.

I’m also using trinitarian sources to establish the fact that Christianity began as a sect of Judaism and the earliest Christians were Jewish monotheists.

P.S.

The new rules prohibit any member who is registered “Christian” from speaking against orthodoxy.

I like that you quote Trinitarian sources... But who/whom? What do you qualify as Trinitarian sources? Would your 1st grade teacher be considered a trinitarian source? Would anyone who agrees with you be a source? Or are you talking about the likes of Augustine, and Tertullian... who help develop the doctrine?

 

[Matthias]

I like that you quote Trinitarian sources... But who/whom? What do you qualify as Trinitarian sources? Would your 1st grade teacher be considered a trinitarian source? Would anyone who agrees with you be a source? Or are you talking about the likes of Augustine, and Tertullian... who help develop the doctrine?

I’m talking about professional theologians. I’m providing a link to the last trinitarian source I quoted in this thread - A.E. Harvey - to give you an idea.

https://www.librarything.com/author/harveyae

His educational qualifications were far above that of a first grade teacher.

When I was teaching orthodox trinitarianism in colleges (as an adjunt professor of theology), what I taught had to be in full accordance with historical orthodox trinitarianism. Anything less than that wouldn’t have been tolerated by my employers.

I’m an educator. What I’ve found over the years is that roughly 80 percent of average trinitarians don’t know the details of orthodoxy.

I was raised trinitarian. I’m not particularly interested in speaking against it. I want people to know and understand what it teaches and then decide for themselves.

Trinitarians typically aren’t receptive to non-trinitarian sources. Sometimes they‘ll listen to professional trinitarian sources.

 

[Pierac]

I’m talking about professional theologians. I’m providing a link to the last trinitarian source I quoted in this thread - A.E. Harvey - to give you an idea.

https://www.librarything.com/author/harveyae

His educational qualifications were far above that of a first grade teacher.

When I was teaching orthodox trinitarianism in colleges (as an adjunt professor of theology), what I taught had to be in full accordance with historical orthodox trinitarianism. Anything less than that wouldn’t have been tolerated by my employers.

I’m an educator. What I’ve found over the years is that roughly 80 percent of average trinitarians don’t know the details of orthodoxy.

I was raised trinitarian. I’m not particularly interested in speaking against it. I want people to know and understand what it teaches and then decide for themselves.

How about Sir Isaac Newton.... Would you consider Him to be a professional theologian? He did write more on theology and any other subject in his life time... More than Calculus (that he created), more than Optics, more than Gravity, more than the Philosophy of Science, and more than the Royal Mint. Yet you know nothing of one of the greatest minds GOD created!

I was also raised trinitarian... in the Catholic Church... then converted to Baptist...

I suggest you read ... Orthodoxy and Heresy in Earliest Christianity .... By Walter Bauer

You have a lot to learn...

 

[Matthias]

How about Sir Isaac Newton.... Would you consider Him to be a professional theologian? He did write more on theology and any other subject in his life time... More than Calculus (that he created), more than Optics, more than Gravity, more than the Philosophy of Science, and more than the Royal Mint. Yet you know nothing of one of the greatest minds GOD created!

Yes, but he wasn’t a trinitarian. (Nor was he a Jewish monotheist, which is what I am.) He was a unitarian.

 

[Pierac]

Yes, but he wasn’t a trinitarian. (Nor was he a Jewish monotheist, which is what I am.) He was a unitarian.

YET.... He was is one of the greatest minds GOD ever created... You should be more concerned in why he does not agree with your beliefs... You assume the greatest mind God put on this planet was wrong against your teachers... You don't seek the truth... you seek that which agrees with you.... That is why you fail... and will always fail... you stand at the side of the road as Satan plucks out the truth once you begin to see.... (MATT 13:19)

Pray for the truth my friend or you will be doomed

 

[Matthias]

How about Sir Isaac Newton.... Would you consider Him to be a professional theologian? He did write more on theology and any other subject in his life time... More than Calculus (that he created), more than Optics, more than Gravity, more than the Philosophy of Science, and more than the Royal Mint. Yet you know nothing of one of the greatest minds GOD created!

I was also raised trinitarian... in the Catholic Church... then converted to Baptist...

I was raised Southern Baptist.

I suggest you read ... Orthodoxy and Heresy in Earliest Christianity .... By Walter Bauer

You have a lot to learn...

Thank you for the recommendation. I’ve read it and I’ve quoted him.

As for Newton, I‘m knowledgeable of him. Do you know Stephen Snoblen?

 

[Matthias]

YET.... He was is one of the greatest minds GOD ever created... You should be more concerned in why he does not agree with your beliefs...

I’ve investigated it thoroughly, with the personal assistance of one of the world’s foremost scholars on Newton.

You assume the greatest mind God put on this planet was wrong against your teachers...

No I don’t.

You don't seek the truth... you seek that which agrees with you....

That’s false.

That is why you fail... and will always fail... you stand at the side of the road as Satan plucks out the truth once you begin to see.... (MATT 13:19)

Pray for the truth my friend or you will be doomed

Jesus of Nazareth, himself a Jewish monotheist, is the truth.

 

[Matthias]

Does he accept or does he reject the historical orthodox doctrine of the Trinity?

Since there was no response, I’ll wrap up the loose end: Thieme accepted (and taught) the historical orthodox doctrine of the Trinity.

 

[soberxp]

@GeneZ @Matthias
Do you know of any forums that Jewish Israelis use?

 

[Matthias]

@GeneZ @Matthias
Do you know of any forums that Jewish Israelis use?

I’ve met Jewish Israelis on several online discussion forums. I don’t know of any particular one they might prefer to use. @Behold lives in Israel. He may be able to answer your question in greater detail.

 

[GeneZ]

Since there was no response, I’ll wrap up the loose end: Thieme accepted (and taught) the historical orthodox doctrine of the Trinity.

And, he did so with great detail.... In many lessons he taught from the Hebrew and Greek.

You do leave me wondering, because the source you offered seemed, limited and cut and dry.

Many Trinitarians end up with the same conclusion (God is Trinity) as other Trinitarians, because they see Deity in all Three as a result of seeing a different angle, other than your lone source was citing.

But? For some reason? You seem to think there is only one way to find out God is Trinity.

There thousands of passages in the Bible...
Some of them contain details that reveal the Deity of both the Son and Holy Spirit, that your one source did not present..

And, yes. I found it very odd of you. That you, who hold a disdain for God being a Trinity, have the audacity to tell me that there is only one correct way to teach God is a Trinity....

Yet? All the while you are rejecting it!
How can you know it is the only correct way to teach it, if you keep rejecting it??????????????


.......

 

[Matthias]

And, he did so with great detail.... In many lessons he taught from the Hebrew and Greek.

He didn’t teach what you believe about the doctrine of the Trinity. You obviously know that as well as I do.

You do leave me wondering, because the source you offered seemed, limited and cut and dry.

Many Trinitarians end up with the same conclusion (God is Trinity) as other Trinitarians, because they see Deity in all Three as a result of seeing a different angle, other than your lone source was citing.

But? For some reason? You seem to think there is only one way to find out God is Trinity.

There thousands of passages in the Bible...
Some of them contain details that reveal the Deity of both the Son and Holy Spirit, that your one source did not present..

And, yes. I found it very odd of you. That you, who hold a disdain for God being a Trinity, have the audacity to tell me that there is only one correct way to teach God is a Trinity....

Yet? All the while you are rejecting it!
How can you know it is the only correct way to teach it, if you keep rejecting it??????????????

I don’t blame anyone for not holding with historical orthodox trinitarianism. In history, those who didn’t paid a high price for dissenting.

 

[soberxp]

Muslims believe that Jesus is a prophet, a man, the Christian Trinity forces people to think that Jesus is God, Judaism belittles Jesus, They think they only follow the Jehovah. You see the satanic lies I'm about to point out? Terrible terrible terrible

The truth in their lies, Challenge their faith.

 

[Matthias]

Muslims believe that Jesus is a prophet, a man, the Christian Trinity forces people to think that Jesus is God, Judaism belittles Jesus, They think they only follow the Jehovah. You see the satanic lies I'm about to point out? Terrible terrible terrible

Be careful. Proceed with caution. You’re registered “Christian”. It’s against the rules for anyone who is registered “Christian” to speak against the Trinity.

@GeneZ is skating on thin ice with his dissenting from historical orthodox trinitarianism.

 

[soberxp]

Be careful. Proceed with caution. You’re registered “Christian”. It’s against the rules for anyone who is registered “Christian” to speak against the Trinity.

I am not against anything, I am point out some things that The truth in their lies, Challenge their faith.

 

[Matthias]

I am not against anything, I am point out some things that The truth in their lies, Challenge their faith.

If what you have to say is about unbelieving Judaism or Islam, this isn’t the thread for it. You should start a new thread for either of those.

If what you have to say is about trinitarianism, the moderators will expect cheerleading from you.

If what you have to say is about Jewish monotheism, I’m interested in hearing it. That’s welcome in this thread.

 

[Matthias]

Jesus of Nazareth - the Messiah, Son of the living God - is a Jewish monotheist @soberxp.

What is it about his Jewish monotheism that doesn’t persuade you to embrace Jewish monotheism?

 

[soberxp]

If what you have to say is about unbelieving Judaism or Islam, this isn’t the thread for it. You should start a new thread for either of those.

If what you have to say is about trinitarianism, the moderators will expect cheerleading from you.

If what you have to say is about Jewish monotheism, I’m interested in hearing it. That’s welcome in this thread.

I don't know if you've read the Koran,
The Koran says that Jews and Christians are all ignorant,Christians say Jews are ignorant, Jews say Christians are ignorant.Don't they know that all the scriptures they read come from God?
I think the Koran has a Good point here.
We know that the Koran appeared after Christianity,The conflict between Christians and Jews was a matter of history.Just as both Christians and Jews would accuse the Koran of heresy.
So why isn't the Koran a conciliator, and why hasn't anyone considered a book of God reconciling contradictory problems between Jews and Christians?
If Jewish monotheism is true in the Koran, if Christianity is true in the Koran.
Then something must have gone wrong.
So........I am not against anything, I am point out some things that The truth in their lies, Challenge their faith.what they build lay to waste.

 

[Matthias]

I don't know if you've read the Koran,

I’ve read English translations of the Koran. (One of my Muslim friends told me that it is important never to say that the Koran has been read unless it has been read in Arabic. I don’t read or speak Arabic.)

The Koran says that Jews and Christians are all ignorant,Christians say Jews are ignorant, Jews say Christians are ignorant.Don't they know that all the scriptures they read come from God?
I think the Koran has a Good point here.
We know that the Koran appeared after Christianity,The conflict between Christians and Jews was a matter of history.Just as both Christians and Jews would accuse the Koran of heresy.
So why isn't the Koran a conciliator, and why hasn't anyone considered a book of God reconciling contradictory problems between Jews and Christians?
If Jewish monotheism is true in the Koran, if Christianity is true in the Koran.
Then something must have gone wrong.
So........I am not against anything, I am point out some things that The truth in their lies, Challenge their faith.

If Jewish monotheism isn’t true, would Jesus be a Jewish monotheist?