To the only God our Savior
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Wrangler
Well-Known Member
Do you recall any conversations where trinitarians have told us that “Yahweh sent himself”?
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
No.
Anyone with a basic understanding of Language Usage knows this is not how language is used. What is sent is the object of the sentence, while YHWH is the subject of the sentence. If "I send you money," I am not sending myself.
Yahweh is one self. The Triune God is three selfs.
The trinitarian pastor points out for us that when Jesus prayed he wasn’t talking to himself.
When Jesus prayed he was talking to Yahweh, his God and Father.
“Put another way, he’s not the heavenly Father. He is someone other than the heavenly Father.” That’s right.
”Jesus wasn’t talking to himself.” That’s also right.
Jesus was talking to the heavenly Father. Jesus wasn’t talking to himself. Jesus was talking to Yahweh.
”Jesus wasn’t talking to himself.” That’s also right.
Jesus was talking to the heavenly Father. Jesus wasn’t talking to himself. Jesus was talking to Yahweh.
It is THROUGH Jesus Christ that God reaches us by making God knowable to us!
John 1:18 in the Greek tells us that it is through the Son that God becomes exegeted.
That through Jesus God is made knowable to mankind!
No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God
and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known.
The Amplified Bible, in John 1:18, states it this way....
He has declared Him [He has revealed Him and brought Him out where He can be seen;
He has interpreted Him, and He has made Him known].
Just like a dedicated pastor-teacher has been called to interpret the Scriptures to their congregation,
so does Jesus interpret God to us in a manner that we are made able to know God.
God to be made known to us in a "human way" of relating to reality.
In ways that we as humans will be able to grasp and comprehend.
For Jesus, being both fully God and fully man in union?
He is capable of making what is foreign to our thinking about God, to be interpreted for us
concerning God to man, in human terms!
So, to see Jesus?
Is seeing God making himself "seeable" to humans (and angels) in a manner that we humans will be able to relate to!
Yes... He is God!
Yes... He is man!
John 14:9
Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time?
Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?
grace and peace!
Jesus is God and man.
Jesus wasn’t, and isn’t, Yahweh. Jesus exegetes Yahweh. When we see and hear Jesus we see and hear Yahweh in him.
It was stressed to me by @GeneZ that “no one has ever seen God”. It is said to everyone by John.
John (and many others) saw Jesus Messiah; not “the God who no one has ever seen.” John saw the God “who no one has ever seen” in Jesus Messiah. Jesus is the perfect image of the God whom ”no one has ever seen”.
John isn’t speaking about the Triune God. John is speaking about Yahweh, the heavenly Father.
P.S.
Jesus isn’t literally the heavenly Father; he represents the heavenly Father. Jesus shows us the heavenly Father. Jesus shows us Yahweh.
John (and many others) saw Jesus Messiah; not “the God who no one has ever seen.” John saw the God “who no one has ever seen” in Jesus Messiah. Jesus is the perfect image of the God whom ”no one has ever seen”.
John isn’t speaking about the Triune God. John is speaking about Yahweh, the heavenly Father.
P.S.
Jesus isn’t literally the heavenly Father; he represents the heavenly Father. Jesus shows us the heavenly Father. Jesus shows us Yahweh.
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Jesus is all the Yahweh we can know.
He makes Yahweh 'knowable' to man.
In other words?
To us?
He is Yahweh as we can know Yahweh...
For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity dwells in bodily form.
Col 2:9
Col 2:9
That does not sit right with you?
If I called you, and spoke to you on your phone?
Later would you say to someone that your phone spoke to you?
To hear your phone was to hear me speak.
Yet, the Wi-Fi used to carry that conversation can not be sensed. Seen… Nor heard, without using your phone.
Deity is like that Wi-Fi that is not sensed nor seen.
Jesus's humanity is our "smartphone" connection to God.
grace and peace .........
Yes, my Study Bible agrees with this number of occurrences as well. You have only confirmed what I had posted. That the number of occurrences of "God Himself" is dependent on the Translation Teams focus and their theological bent.
Jesus is literally our only means for us to see the Father.
Hebrews 1:3
The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being,
sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins,
he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven."
............
Yes. Yahweh and Jesus. Father and Son. God and Messiah.
Jesus wasn’t and isn’t Yahweh. Jesus is Yahweh to us.
***
Jesus himself didn’t talk / pray to himself. Jesus himself talked / prayed to Yahweh himself.
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