Timing of Eze 37 and 38 pre Trib?

[dad]

Yes I am, as that is what the Bible Prophecies. Didn't you bother to look at Isaiah 62:1-5?

That talks about Zion and Jerusalem. Is that what you thought you were?
For Zion's sake will I not hold my peace, and for Jerusalem's sake I will not rest, until her righteousness go forth as brightness, and her salvation as a lamp that burneth.

Your people will hasten back, while your enemies depart. Look around, your children gather and come to you. They will be as ornaments in the Land.

Once the Land was desolate. Your enemies are now far away. The children born while the Land was occupied by foreigners will now say: This place is too small for us. Zion will say; who bore these children, when I was deserted, where did they come from?

The Lord says; I shall signal to the nations, they will carefully transport My people to their Promised Land.

I don't recall Jesus promising us that land?

Isaiah 6:13 All true Christians are now the Lord’s people:

Yes we are. That does not make us Jews. Sorry.

That is called twisting Scripture.

 

[Keraz]

That talks about Zion and Jerusalem. Is that what you thought you were?

Isaiah 62:1-12 refers to the holy Land and prophesies the new people who will inhabit it in the end times and the Millennium. We Christians are those people, the faithful ones who keep the Commandments. the people that gad always wanted in His holy Land, but has never yet had there.

I don't recall Jesus promising us that land?

God Promised it to us:
Zephaniah 3:1-8 Woe to the place of oppression, filthy and defiled, they heed no warning voice and ignore God’s rebukes. They won’t take correction or place their trust in their Creator. Their leaders have no concern for the people and prophet and priest alike profane the Holy Scriptures.

The Lord has judged and punished them before, their land laid waste and the towns deserted and He thought: surely now they will fear Me and will accept instruction, but they continue on in their evil deeds and they show no shame for it.
Judah has been punished by Babylon and by Rome.

Therefore: look out for Me, for the Day when I will stand up to witness against you, on the Day that I execute justice upon the nations, for I will pour out My fierce anger and the whole earth will be enveloped by the fire of My wrath.
This will be the great and terrible Day of the Lord’s vengeance and wrath against the nations. Prophesied in the Bible over 100 times. 2 Peter 3:7, Revelation 6:12-17, +


Zephaniah 3:11-13 On that Day, Jerusalem, I shall wipe away your shame for all the transgressions committed in you, for I shall remove all your proud and arrogant citizens, only the humble and peaceful people will remain and those who never practise evil or speak lies, they will settle in the Land and nothing will disturb them.

This is the great Second Exodus of all of God’s people into all of the holy Land. Every faithful Christian: a vast multitude from every tribe, race, nation and language. Isaiah 66:18-21, Ezekiel 34:11-31, Romans 9:24=26, Revelation 7:9


Zephaniah 3:9-10 They will all know a pure language, so everyone will know the true Name of the Lord and will praise Him with one accord. My worshippers, all the righteous people will come from afar to worship the Lord and bring offerings to Him. People from every race, nation and language, all the born again Christian people, will travel there to live, in the new nation of Beulah, Isaiah 62:1-5, while the rest of the world is ruled by a One World Government. Daniel 7:23, Revelation 17:12


Zephaniah 3:14-17 Daughter of Jerusalem; sing for joy! For the Lord has taken away your punishments and has cast out your enemies. Now the Lord is with you and you need never again fear disaster.

On the Day of the Lord’s wrath; This is the message for My people: Fear not, stand firm in your faith, your God will keep you safe and will rejoice over you.
Ref: REB, CJB, KJV. Some verses condensed and paraphrased.


This chapter of Zephaniah encapsulates the soon to happen end times story.

It tells how Jerusalem is denigrated by its ungodly inhabitants and will rejoice when they are gone. How those enemies of the Lord, the evil neighbors, Jeremiah 12:14, and all who reject the Salvation of Jesus, will be uprooted, then the holy Land resettled by the Lord’s faithful believers. Ezekiel 34:11-31 tells it plainly.

Jeremiah 7:30-34 & 8:1-13 The people of Judah have done wrong, they worship idols and have no regard for their Creator....Therefore, the time is coming when I shall fill the valley of Topeth with their corpses.......All the survivor’s of this wicked race, from wherever I have banished them, would rather die than live. Isaiah 22:14

...Judah is incurable in their waywardness......I listen, but I hear not one word of remorse ....My people do not know the Judgements of the Lord. How can you say: We are wise and we have the Law of God, when your scribes and priests have falsified it? The wise are shamed and where is wisdom in them?

Therefore I will give their wives to others and give their land to new owners, for all of their prophets and priests are frauds....on My Day of reckoning, they will fall with a great crash. I shall surely consume them says the Lord and there will be no grapes on the vine, [Israel] and no figs on the fig tree. [Judah]


We Christians are told by Paul in 1 Thessalonians 5:4-5, that we should know God’s plans for what will happen in the near future. Zephaniah 3 gives it to us, confirmed by the sequence of Revelation chapters 6-7.
What is presented to you in these scriptures, is God’s Promises to His faithful people, His blessings of peace and prosperity, of joy and happiness, of security and long life, as all who love Him and keep the Commandments; will live in His Land.

It is the prophetic parallel of ancient Israel, where Jesus led the people through the desert and how most of them refused to accept the Promise. 1 Corinthians 10:6-13

Ezekiel 20:34-38 tells how, once again, some of His people will revolt and rebel and they will not enter the Land of Israel.


In today’s situation, we have many who have accepted the Gospel, but who have chosen their own beliefs about what God intends to do for His people and during this forthcoming test, 1 Peter 4:12, they may fail to stand firm in their trust that the Lord will protect them. This won’t lose their salvation, but it will be a serious disadvantage, 1 Corinthians 3:13-15

As the great chapter of Isaiah 35:1-10, one of the many prophesies that describe the Lord’s faithful Christian people entering the holy Land, says: ...no one unclean will go there....The Lord’s people, set free: will enter Zion with shouts of triumph.

 

[dad]

Isaiah 62:1-12 refers to the holy Land and prophesies the new people who will inhabit it in the end times and the Millennium. We Christians are those people, the faithful ones who keep the Commandments. the people that gad always wanted in His holy Land, but has never yet had there.

Isaiah 62:2
And the Gentiles shall see thy righteousness
That means He was talking to Jewish people. Or did you think Gentiles mean all but Christians?

It talks about land.
Isaiah 62:4
Thou shalt no more be termed Forsaken; neither shall thy land any more be termed Desolate: but thou shalt be called Hephzibah, and thy land Beulah: for the Lord delighteth in thee, and thy land shall be married.

Christians are pilgrims and strangers here and have no continuing city. Our home is heaven. Not some sandy dirt in the mid east.

God Promised it to us:
Zephaniah 3:1-8 Woe to the place of oppression, filthy and defiled, they heed no warning voice and ignore God’s rebukes. They won’t take correction or place their trust in their Creator. Their leaders have no concern for the people and prophet and priest alike profane the Holy Scriptures.

The dispersed were His people of Israel.

Zephaniah 3:10
From beyond the rivers of Ethiopia my suppliants, even the daughter of my dispersed, shall bring mine offering.

You are simply and apparently trying to horn your way in to where you do not belong.

The Lord has judged and punished them before, their land laid waste and the towns deserted and He thought: surely now they will fear Me and will accept instruction, but they continue on in their evil deeds and they show no shame for it.
Judah has been punished by Babylon and by Rome.

Them being...not you, but them! Did you think God laid your town waste?

Zephaniah 3:11-13 On that Day, Jerusalem, I shall wipe away your shame for all the transgressions committed in you, for I shall remove all your proud and arrogant citizens, only the humble and peaceful people will remain and those who never practise evil or speak lies, they will settle in the Land and nothing will disturb them.

Not sure what you think you see when reading that. We can say for certain that you are not Jerusalem many centuries BC! (or any other time)

This is the great Second Exodus of all of God’s people into all of the holy Land.

Nothing remotely similar actually. That is not even in the realm of remote possibilities. Again, you try to horn your way in where you have no place whatsoever.

Zephaniah 3:9-10 They will all know a pure language, so everyone will know the true Name of the Lord and will praise Him with one accord. My worshippers, all the righteous people will come from afar to worship the Lord and bring offerings to Him. People from every race, nation and language, all the born again Christian people, will travel there to live, in the new nation of Beulah, Isaiah 62:1-5, while the rest of the world is ruled by a One World Government. Daniel 7:23, Revelation 17:12

It does not say any such thing. The people ON earth will come to worship at Jerusalem, not us in heaven!

Zephaniah 3:14-17 Daughter of Jerusalem; sing for joy! For the Lord has taken away your punishments and has cast out your enemies. Now the Lord is with you and you need never again fear disaster.

Sorry if you imagined yourself to be the daughter of Zion. That is unsound.

This chapter of Zephaniah encapsulates the soon to happen end times story.

It tells how Jerusalem is denigrated by its ungodly inhabitants and will rejoice when they are gone. How those enemies of the Lord, the evil neighbors, Jeremiah 12:14, and all who reject the Salvation of Jesus, will be uprooted, then the holy Land resettled by the Lord’s faithful believers. Ezekiel 34:11-31 tells it plainly.

All Israel will be saved, so all of them will believe in Jesus. It is not the Christians who inhabit Jerusalem and rejoice when Jews are gone, if that is the sick thought you had.

Therefore I will give their wives to others and give their land to new owners, for all of their prophets and priests are frauds....on My Day of reckoning, they will fall with a great crash. I shall surely consume them says the Lord and there will be no grapes on the vine, [Israel] and no figs on the fig tree. [Judah]

Not sure what you think that means. Apparently you think God is going to kill all the Jews so you can be the 'true Israel'?

We Christians are told by Paul in 1 Thessalonians 5:4-5, that we should know God’s plans for what will happen in the near future. Zephaniah 3 gives it to us, confirmed by the sequence of Revelation chapters 6-7.
What is presented to you in these scriptures, is God’s Promises to His faithful people, His blessings of peace and prosperity, of joy and happiness, of security and long life, as all who love Him and keep the Commandments; will live in His Land.

You conflate times and peoples.

It is the prophetic parallel of ancient Israel, where Jesus led the people through the desert and how most of them refused to accept the Promise. 1 Corinthians 10:6-13

That did not mean He would not save them one day, and that only you were the true Jew. I kid you not.

Ezekiel 20:34-38 tells how, once again, some of His people will revolt and rebel and they will not enter the Land of Israel.

So? More than some of Israel will not be saved. Only the remnant alive in the end will be saved. That does not mean you are the one who gets their land! Some people seem to confuse nazi style hate speech with prophesy.

In today’s situation, we have many who have accepted the Gospel, but who have chosen their own beliefs about what God intends to do for His people and during this forthcoming test, 1 Peter 4:12, they may fail to stand firm in their trust that the Lord will protect them. This won’t lose their salvation, but it will be a serious disadvantage, 1 Corinthians 3:13-15

His people will be caught u to meet Him. It is then that Israel will be dealt with, many of whom also are His people.

As the great chapter of Isaiah 35:1-10, one of the many prophesies that describe the Lord’s faithful Christian people entering the holy Land, says: ...no one unclean will go there....The Lord’s people, set free: will enter Zion with shouts of triumph.

Sorry if you though that the all Israel who get saved were unholy. No. It also so happens that God promised them that land not Christians. That is the last thing most of us would want.

 

[Davy]

That talks about Zion and Jerusalem. Is that what you thought you were?
For Zion's sake will I not hold my peace, and for Jerusalem's sake I will not rest, until her righteousness go forth as brightness, and her salvation as a lamp that burneth.

I don't recall Jesus promising us that land?

Yes we are. That does not make us Jews. Sorry.

That is called twisting Scripture.

No, it is NOT twisting the Scripture. Just because those like yourself, and many preachers likewise, do NOT study ALL their Bible, that is why you all are ignorant about God's promises now are per The New Covenant, NOT the old covenant which is dead. And, many ignorant preachers today who don't study all their Bible are also unaware of the crept in unawares that are Judaizers that steer preaching away... from thinking God's OT promises involve Christ's Church. Not making the Biblical distinction between the two houses of Israel in God's Word is one way they hide who the Jews really are. The Majority of the children of Israel were NOT Jews.

The Jewish historian Josephus (100 A.D.) said the title of 'Jew' came about from those who returned to Jerusalem from the 70 years Babylon captivity. He said all those living in Judea at that time took that appellation of Jew. That only involved the tribes of Judah, Benjamin, and Levi, and some small remnants of the ten tribes that left the northern kingdom back when Jeroboam, king of Israel, setup the two calf idols in the north. And that also including strangers living in Judea.

Thus it is a mistake to call the following tribes of the northern "kingdom of Israel" which God scattered first, by the name Jew...

1. Dan
2. Asher
3. Naphtali
4. Manasseh
5. Ephraim
6. Reuben
7. Gad
8. Issachar
9. Zebulun
10. Simeon

Those 10 tribes in majority, were removed out of the holy land first, by God bringing the kings of Assyria upon them to take them captive to Assyria and the land of the Medes. Those would never return, even as it still is today. The ONLY portion of the children of Israel left was the southern "kingdom of Judah", made up of the tribes Judah, Benjamin, Levi, and the small remnants of the northern tribes that left the north because of Jeroboam's calf idol worship.

The ten tribes were removed about 120 years prior... to Judah's captivity to Babylon by Nebuchadnezzar, king of Babylon. Get it?
1.Ten tribes were captive FIRST to Assyria and lands of the Medes by the kings of Assyria.
2.The 3-tribe Judah kingdom went captive SECOND to Babylon by the king of Babylon.

Most Biblically illiterates aren't even aware of that 1st captivity of the northern ten tribe "kingdom of Israel". That's why they tend to call ALL Israelites by the title of Jew, which is actually a propaganda strategy by the false Jews.

 

[The Light]

No, it is NOT twisting the Scripture. Just because those like yourself, and many preachers likewise, do NOT study ALL their Bible, that is why you all are ignorant about God's promises now are per The New Covenant, NOT the old covenant which is dead. And, many ignorant preachers today who don't study all their Bible are also unaware of the crept in unawares that are Judaizers that steer preaching away... thinking God's OT promises involve Christ's Church. Not making the Biblical distinction between the two houses of Israel in God's Word is one way they hide who the Jews really are. The Majority of the children of Israel were NOT Jews.

The Jewish historian Josephus (100 A.D.) said the title of 'Jew' came about from those who returned to Jerusalem from the 70 years Babylon captivity. He said all those living in Judea at that time took that appellation of Jew. That only involved the tribes of Judah, Benjamin, and Levi, and some small remnants of the ten tribes that left the northern kingdom back when Jeroboam, king of Israel, setup the two calf idols in the north. And that also including strangers living in Judea.

Thus it is a mistake to call the following tribes of the northern "kingdom of Israel" which God scattered first, by the name Jew...

1. Dan
2. Asher
3. Naphtali
4. Manasseh
5. Ephraim
6. Reuben
7. Gad
8. Issachar
9. Zebulun
10. Simeon

Those 10 tribes in majority, were removed out of the holy land first, by God bringing the kings of Assyria upon them to take them captive to Assyria and the land of the Medes. Those would never return, even as it still is today. The ONLY portion of the children of Israel left was the southern "kingdom of Judah", made up of the tribes Judah, Benjamin, Levi, and the small remnants of the northern tribes that left the north because of Jeroboam's calf idol worship.

The ten tribes were removed about 120 years prior... to Judah's captivity to Babylon by Nebuchadnezzar, king of Babylon. Get it?
1.Ten tribes were captive FIRST to Assyria and lands of the Medes by the kings of Assyria.
2.The 3-tribe Judah kingdom went captive SECOND to Babylon by the king of Babylon.

Most Biblically illiterates aren't even aware of that 1st captivity of the northern ten tribe "kingdom of Israel". That's why they tend to call ALL Israelites by the title of Jew, which is actually a propaganda strategy by the false Jews.

This nonsense again. Most educated Christians know this. But let's get to reality. When Hitler went after the Jews, was he only looking for those in the house of Judah, Benjamin or Levi?

Playing these games is fruitless. You may study your Bible, but it's seems you don't understand it.

 

[Davy]

This nonsense again. Most educated Christians know this. But let's get to reality. When Hitler went after the Jews, was he only looking for those in the house of Judah, Benjamin or Levi?

Playing these games is fruitless. You may study your Bible, but it's seems you don't understand it.

Not nonsense, but Bible history.

What you are saying is nonsense, because the title of 'Jew' comes from the TRIBE OF JUDAH.

And ANYONE who has studied their Old Testament history well knows the tribe of Judah was a SEPARATE KINGDOM in the southern land apart from ISRAEL (1 Kings 11 forward).

So all your stupid sayings, like, "let's get to reality; Most educated Christians know this," etc., all show your BIBLICAL IGNORANCE. And man... you sure do wear that Biblical ignorance like a banner!

 

[The Light]

Not nonsense, but Bible history.

What you are saying is nonsense, because the title of 'Jew' comes from the TRIBE OF JUDAH.

Gee. No kidding? I think I understood that in the 4th grade.

And ANYONE who has studied their Old Testament history well knows the tribe of Judah was a SEPARATE KINGDOM in the southern land apart from ISRAEL (1 Kings 11 forward).

You are just not getting it are you. This is no secret. You have not discovered some unknown Biblical truth. However, have you discovered that when Hitler went after the Jews, he went after more than just the tribe of Judah. Have you discovered that there are millions of Jews in United States that call themselves Jews that are not of the tribe of Judah.

So all your stupid sayings, like, "let's get to reality; Most educated Christians know this," etc., all show your BIBLICAL IGNORANCE. And man... you sure do wear that Biblical ignorance like a banner!

So, you understand when the Lord will come and yet don't understand that the Lord will also come when you think not.
Matthew 24
42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.

44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

It is not wise to teach others that they don't need to ready until after the man of sin is revealed.

It is also not wise to teach others that the scattered tribes of Israel are the Church. God is going to do EXACTLY what is proclaimed in the Word. After the fullness of the Gentiles comes in, God will keep His promise and open the eyes of Israel. Be not IGNORANT of this truth.

Rom 11
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

And if you count the 144,000 being redeemed from the earth, the Lord will return at least 3 times that you are unaware of.

Rev 14
1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.

2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:

3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

You might need a little understanding to go with your studying.

 

[Davy]

You are just not getting it are you. This is no secret. You have not discovered some unknown Biblical truth.

You apparently haven't discovered about those two separate kingdoms that God divided old Israel into.

However, have you discovered that when Hitler went after the Jews, he went after more than just the tribe of Judah. Have you discovered that there are millions of Jews in United States that call themselves Jews that are not of the tribe of Judah.

Like God's Word shows, the SOUTHERN KINGDOM OF JUDAH, actually called "kingdom of Judah" in God's Word, was made up ONLY of 3 tribes, the tribes of Judah, Benjamin, and Levi, and SMALL REMNANTS of the ten northern tribes that REFUSED JEROBOAM'S CALF IDOL WORSHIP (2 Chronicles 11:14-17). So of course there were 'some'... of the northern ten tribes that migrated south to join with Judah, and became known as JEWS also. What you're saying CANNOT, AND DOES NOT change this history I speak of from God's written Word.

The rest of your response to my post is totally irrelevant to what I was covering in my post#684.

But yes, I DO believe that Christ's Church represents God's Israel, what Apostle Paul called the "commonwealth of Israel" in Ephesians 2. That means God's Israel per The New Covenant is made up of the "multitude of nations" that have accepted Jesus Christ as their Savior. And because of that, I also believe that the 'majority' of God's OT promises to Israel are now to Christ's Church. And I also believe that the 'majority' of the ten scattered tribes of the old northern "kingdom of Israel" migrated to Asia Minor and Europe, and fulfilled the "multitude of nations" prophecy about Ephraim (Genesis 48), and also the "company of nations" Jacob's seed was to become (per Genesis 35). And that would include BOTH, believing Jews, and believing Israelites of the ten scattered tribes that are NOT known as Jews.

Even today still, the JEWS do not... know what happened to the ten scattered tribes of old Israel which God removed from the holy lands first, nor where they are today. Most of the ten tribes don't even know who they are today! So HOW can those same JEWS even think to call those ten tribes by the title of JEW when it never applied to the ten tribes? Even some of their Jewish scholars don't believe the ten tribes will ever return, but are lost forever. Per God's prophesy through His prophet Hosea, God showed that He would remove the ten tribe's memory of their heritage when scattering them because of their false worship against Him. They became 'Lo-ammi' (not My people) per Hosea 1.

The ONLY people of the children of old Israel that were left in the holy land were the Jews of the "house of Judah", or "kingdom of Judah". And that is who the Jews are today, the tribes of Judah, Benjamin, Levi, small remnant of the ten tribes that left the northern kingdom, and the rest are strangers not born of the seed of Israel. That is still the make-up of TODAY'S Jews, not just in the holy land, but throughout all the world.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

And you never quoted any verses, so it is your interpretation, no?

You can be dogmatic on your date. It also is a pointless endeavor. Having fulfillment is that the life of Jesus happened after the 69 weeks. You cannot have 101% fulfillment, by getting a perfect fit of your choosing, can you? The point I made is no less 100% fulfillment than trying to force fit any other interpretation.

I quoted several verses, but as the verses did not use modern Calander dates one has to refer to history! And you saying that the 483 weeks occurred long before Jesus is just wrong! Biblically and historically.

You focus just on the rebuild and ignore the restore part of the prophecy. Only one king issued both those decrees.

 

[farouk]

I don't see the church directly in the NT; so this might affect one's interpretation of Ezekiel.

 

[dad]

No, it is NOT twisting the Scripture. Just because those like yourself, and many preachers likewise, do NOT study ALL their Bible, that is why you all are ignorant about God's promises now are per The New Covenant, NOT the old covenant which is dead. And, many ignorant preachers today who don't study all their Bible are also unaware of the crept in unawares that are Judaizers that steer preaching away... from thinking God's OT promises involve Christ's Church. Not making the Biblical distinction between the two houses of Israel in God's Word is one way they hide who the Jews really are. The Majority of the children of Israel were NOT Jews.

The Jewish historian Josephus (100 A.D.) said the title of 'Jew' came about from those who returned to Jerusalem from the 70 years Babylon captivity. He said all those living in Judea at that time took that appellation of Jew. That only involved the tribes of Judah, Benjamin, and Levi, and some small remnants of the ten tribes that left the northern kingdom back when Jeroboam, king of Israel, setup the two calf idols in the north. And that also including strangers living in Judea.

Thus it is a mistake to call the following tribes of the northern "kingdom of Israel" which God scattered first, by the name Jew...

1. Dan
2. Asher
3. Naphtali
4. Manasseh
5. Ephraim
6. Reuben
7. Gad
8. Issachar
9. Zebulun
10. Simeon

Those 10 tribes in majority, were removed out of the holy land first, by God bringing the kings of Assyria upon them to take them captive to Assyria and the land of the Medes. Those would never return, even as it still is today. The ONLY portion of the children of Israel left was the southern "kingdom of Judah", made up of the tribes Judah, Benjamin, Levi, and the small remnants of the northern tribes that left the north because of Jeroboam's calf idol worship.

The ten tribes were removed about 120 years prior... to Judah's captivity to Babylon by Nebuchadnezzar, king of Babylon. Get it?
1.Ten tribes were captive FIRST to Assyria and lands of the Medes by the kings of Assyria.
2.The 3-tribe Judah kingdom went captive SECOND to Babylon by the king of Babylon.

Most Biblically illiterates aren't even aware of that 1st captivity of the northern ten tribe "kingdom of Israel". That's why they tend to call ALL Israelites by the title of Jew, which is actually a propaganda strategy by the false Jews.

That all comes off sounding like you have a chip on your shoulders against Jews. God is nothing like that. It seems you like to call anyone that knows God and that He keeps His promises a 'Judiazer'. Nor do I recall God saying some tribes would be restored leaving others 'unrestored'? When Israel is mentioned in prophesy, it is not Christians or some lost tribes somewhere.

 

[The Light]

You apparently haven't discovered about those two separate kingdoms that God divided old Israel into.



Like God's Word shows, the SOUTHERN KINGDOM OF JUDAH, actually called "kingdom of Judah" in God's Word, was made up ONLY of 3 tribes, the tribes of Judah, Benjamin, and Levi, and SMALL REMNANTS of the ten northern tribes that REFUSED JEROBOAM'S CALF IDOL WORSHIP (2 Chronicles 11:14-17). So of course there were 'some'... of the northern ten tribes that migrated south to join with Judah, and became known as JEWS also. What you're saying CANNOT, AND DOES NOT change this history I speak of from God's written Word.

The rest of your response to my post is totally irrelevant to what I was covering in my post#684.

But yes, I DO believe that Christ's Church represents God's Israel, what Apostle Paul called the "commonwealth of Israel" in Ephesians 2. That means God's Israel per The New Covenant is made up of the "multitude of nations" that have accepted Jesus Christ as their Savior. And because of that, I also believe that the 'majority' of God's OT promises to Israel are now to Christ's Church. And I also believe that the 'majority' of the ten scattered tribes of the old northern "kingdom of Israel" migrated to Asia Minor and Europe, and fulfilled the "multitude of nations" prophecy about Ephraim (Genesis 48), and also the "company of nations" Jacob's seed was to become (per Genesis 35). And that would include BOTH, believing Jews, and believing Israelites of the ten scattered tribes that are NOT known as Jews.

Even today still, the JEWS do not... know what happened to the ten scattered tribes of old Israel which God removed from the holy lands first, nor where they are today. Most of the ten tribes don't even know who they are today! So HOW can those same JEWS even think to call those ten tribes by the title of JEW when it never applied to the ten tribes? Even some of their Jewish scholars don't believe the ten tribes will ever return, but are lost forever. Per God's prophesy through His prophet Hosea, God showed that He would remove the ten tribe's memory of their heritage when scattering them because of their false worship against Him. They became 'Lo-ammi' (not My people) per Hosea 1.

The ONLY people of the children of old Israel that were left in the holy land were the Jews of the "house of Judah", or "kingdom of Judah". And that is who the Jews are today, the tribes of Judah, Benjamin, Levi, small remnant of the ten tribes that left the northern kingdom, and the rest are strangers not born of the seed of Israel. That is still the make-up of TODAY'S Jews, not just in the holy land, but throughout all the world.

Again, you act like this is something that you have discovered that no one knows about.

God says that there will be 144,000 first fruits from the 12 tribes. Are those ten tribes lost to God?

 

[Keraz]

Again, you act like this is something that you have discovered that no one knows about.

God says that there will be 144,000 first fruits from the 12 tribes. Are those ten tribes lost to God?

What Davy sets out is historical fact. The ten Northern Tribes did migrate across Europe, Jeremiah 31:21 and it is their descendants who are mainly the Christian peoples.

God does know who and where they all are, Amos 9:9 But He has hidden this from general knowledge.
People who think the Jews are the only Israel, contradict much scripture.

Christians are pilgrims and strangers here and have no continuing city. Our home is heaven. Not some sandy dirt in the mid east.

This is where you are seriously wrong. To occupy the holy Land is our destiny and our great privilege. Romans 9:24-26 John sees the vast multitude of Christians there in Revelation 7:9
We never go to live in heaven, after the Millennium, God and therefore heaven; come to the earth. Revelation 21:1-7

 

[The Light]

What Davy sets out is historical fact. The ten Northern Tribes did migrate across Europe, Jeremiah 31:21 and it is their descendants who are mainly the Christian peoples.

Why would they be Christian people? They are of the 12 tribes and most are blinded until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in. That's scriptural FACT. So they aren't the Christians.

Rom 11
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

 

[dad]

What Davy sets out is historical fact. The ten Northern Tribes did migrate across Europe, Jeremiah 31:21 and it is their descendants who are mainly the Christian peoples.

God does know who and where they all are, Amos 9:9 But He has hidden this from general knowledge.
People who think the Jews are the only Israel, contradict much scripture.

This is where you are seriously wrong. To occupy the holy Land is our destiny and our great privilege. Romans 9:24-26 John sees the vast multitude of Christians there in Revelation 7:9
We never go to live in heaven, after the Millennium, God and therefore heaven; come to the earth. Revelation 21:1-7

If you claim you will never go to heaven, then I am not part of that 'we'. Not at all. Believers do go to be where He is when they die, or in the Rapture. That is the hope of ages, and yes, we are strangers and pilgrims here and Paul was not 'seriously wrong'

I do not see the love of God in anything you say here. Your confused utterances remind me of when I tried to reason with a Jehovah witness many years ago.

 

[Keraz]

Why would they be Christian people? They are of the 12 tribes and most are blinded until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in. That's scriptural FACT. So they aren't the Christians.

Here is a real scriptural fact:
Matthew 15:24 I was sent to [save] the lost sheep of the House of Israel and to them alone.

Did Jesus fail? No; so the people who have accepted Christianity ARE the House of Israel.

If you claim you will never go to heaven, then I am not part of that 'we'. Not at all. Believers do go to be where He is when they die, or in the Rapture. That is the hope of ages, and yes, we are strangers and pilgrims here and Paul was not 'seriously wrong'

I go by the Words of Jesus, not human unbiblical aspirations. Jesus said that it was impossible for humans to go to heaven. John 3:13 and 5 other verses.
What Paul said comes true at the Great White Throne Judgment, Revelation 20:11-15

I do not see the love of God in anything you say here. Your confused utterances remind me of when I tried to reason with a Jehovah witness many years ago.

Typical; attack the messenger.
Many have fallen for false theories and fables, 2 Timothy 4:3-4
If you believe in a 'rapture to heaven', then prove it with scripture.
If you believe we go to heaven when we die, then prove it with scripture.
If you think Christians will not face tests and trials, then prove it with scripture.

 

[The Light]

Here is a real scriptural fact:
Matthew 15:24 I was sent to [save] the lost sheep of the House of Israel and to them alone.

Did Jesus fail? No; so the people who have accepted Christianity ARE the House of Israel.

Jesus was sent to the House of Israel and to them alone. That means that Jesus was sent to the House of Israel and not to the Gentiles.

Did Jesus go out to the Gentiles? No, He went to the House of Israel and they rejected the chief cornerstone...just as the Word says.
BTW, Did Jesus fail? Strawman.

 

[dad]

Here is a real scriptural fact:
Matthew 15:24 I was sent to [save] the lost sheep of the House of Israel and to them alone.

First, yes. He died for all the world, and even when here to start with Israel He reached out somewhat, such as the woman at the well. Jesus did not die for Israel only!

Did Jesus fail? No; so the people who have accepted Christianity ARE the House of Israel.

I see. So by pretending He died only for Israel, you think we can include ourselves in Israel! That is building error on error.

I go by the Words of Jesus, not human unbiblical aspirations. Jesus said that it was impossible for humans to go to heaven. John 3:13 and 5 other verses.

Not true, He said all who believe in Him have everlasting life, and that He prepared a place for us so we would be with Him.

Many have fallen for false theories and fables, 2 Timothy 4:3-4

So? That does not justify yours.

If you believe in a 'rapture to heaven', then prove it with scripture.

There is no doubt we will be gathered up in the air to be with Him. None at all.

If you believe we go to heaven when we die, then prove it with scripture.

Easy. God is in heaven and we will be where He is!

If you think Christians will not face tests and trials, then prove it with scripture.

No one said that. The Great Tribulation however is not a trial and test, it is the wrath of God on the world.

 

[Keraz]

Jesus was sent to the House of Israel and to them alone. That means that Jesus was sent to the House of Israel and not to the Gentiles.

Did Jesus go out to the Gentiles? No, He went to the House of Israel and they rejected the chief cornerstone...just as the Word says.

You exhibit a total failure to see how God divided ancient Israel into 2 Houses; Israel, the 10 Northern tribes and Judah; the 2 tribes of Judah and Benjamin. They remain separate today. Ezekiel 37:15-28 is yet to be fulfilled.
The Bible prophets tell us the the House of Judah will be virtually destroyed. Isaiah 22:14, Isaiah 6:11-13, Romans 9:27

That we Christians are the Spiritual and mostly physical; House of Israel is proved by the statement of Jesus in Matthew 15:24, and by how Paul made it clear the ethnicity now has no value for redemption.

I see. So by pretending He died only for Israel, you think we can include ourselves in Israel! That is building error on error.

Thinking that the people of the Jewish State of Israel is the only Israel, is your fundamental error.
They are usurpers and are a Satanic construct which has fooled most of the world into thinking they are still God's people. They are not and even their flag is a Satanic symbol.

There is no doubt we will be gathered up in the air to be with Him. None at all.

I agree; but it is not to go to heaven. Jesus has left heaven and comes down, gathers His faithful people to where He is - in Jerusalem. 1 Thess 4:17, Matthew 24:30-31

The Great Tribulation however is not a trial and test, it is the wrath of God on the world.

You disagree with 1 Peter 4:12 and many other scriptures that say we must face trials and testing. Which includes the Great Trib. Revelation 13:10 & 14:12
Hebrews 12:7-8 ...If you escape the discipline which all children must bear, then you must be illegitimate and not the real children of God.

 

[dad]

Thinking that the people of the Jewish State of Israel is the only Israel, is your fundamental error.

No more than thinking that the land of Israel will be invaded in the end. Did you think they were going to attack only some lost tribe? There are clear promises for Israel, the children of Abraham, and there are clear promises for Christians. You conflate them.

They are usurpers and are a Satanic construct which has fooled most of the world into thinking they are still God's people. They are not and even their flag is a Satanic symbol.

If they were not His people why would the last seven years be largely about getting them to cry uncle and get saved?

I agree; but it is not to go to heaven. Jesus has left heaven and comes down, gathers His faithful people to where He is - in Jerusalem. 1 Thess 4:17, Matthew 24:30-31

Well, we are told we go up in the air where He is. That is not what you claim here.

You disagree with 1 Peter 4:12 and many other scriptures that say we must face trials and testing.

False, of course we do. Yet that is not Hos wrath, it is His wonderful correction. There is a time coming that is His wrath.

Which includes the Great Trib. Revelation 13:10 & 14:12
Hebrews 12:7-8 ...If you escape the discipline which all children must bear, then you must be illegitimate and not the real children of God.

That is correction, not wrath. You conflate the two something fierce.