Timing of Eze 37 and 38 pre Trib?

[Keraz]

No more than thinking that the land of Israel will be invaded in the end. Did you think they were going to attack only some lost tribe? There are clear promises for Israel, the children of Abraham, and there are clear promises for Christians. You conflate them.

The true Israelites of God are all the faithful Christian peoples. 1 Peter 2:9-10, Revelation 5:9-10
WE are the children of Abraham, by faith and in most cases, by descent as well, Galatians 3:23-29 & 6:14-16

If they were not His people why would the last seven years be largely about getting them to cry uncle and get saved?

The ungodly Jews, which is 99.5% of them: will be gone at the Sixth Seal wipeout of the Middle East. Zephaniah 1:1-18, Isaiah 22:14, Jeremiah 10:18, Ezekiel 21:1-7, Romans 9:27, +

Well, we are told we go up in the air where He is. That is not what you claim here.

Those who remain alive at that time will be transported thru the atmosphere, to Jerusalem; where Jesus will Return to. Zechariah 14:4

That is correction, not wrath. You conflate the two something fierce.

That is because God's wrath IS His correction. Noah's Flood, Genesis 6:13, was both.
The Sixth Seal, the Lords fiery wrath will again correct the world. Matthew 24:37-39

 

[The Light]

The Great Tribulation however is not a trial and test, it is the wrath of God on the world.

This is incorrect. The tribulation is OVER BEFORE the wrath of God BEGINS.

The coming of Jesus in Matthew 24 occurs at the 6th seal.

 

[The Light]

You exhibit a total failure to see how God divided ancient Israel into 2 Houses; Israel, the 10 Northern tribes and Judah; the 2 tribes of Judah and Benjamin. They remain separate today. Ezekiel 37:15-28 is yet to be fulfilled.
The Bible prophets tell us the the House of Judah will be virtually destroyed. Isaiah 22:14, Isaiah 6:11-13, Romans 9:27

That we Christians are the Spiritual and mostly physical; House of Israel is proved by the statement of Jesus in Matthew 15:24, and by how Paul made it clear the ethnicity now has no value for redemption.

You exhibit a total failure to see that the Church has not replaced Israel. Part of Israel cannot see until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in.

You also exhibit a complete and total failure to see that God will keep His promise to His Chosen.

 

[Keraz]

This is incorrect. The tribulation is OVER BEFORE the wrath of God BEGINS.

Proved wrong by Revelation 15:1.

The coming of Jesus in Matthew 24 occurs at the 6th seal.

The Sixth Seal is the Lord's Day of fiery wrath, when He will not be seen. Psalms 11:4-6, Habakkuk 3:4, +
The glorious Return does not come until all the events up to Rev 19:10 have happened.

You exhibit a total failure to see that the Church has not replaced Israel. Part of Israel cannot see until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in.

You exhibit a total acceptance of the lie that the Jews are still God's chosen people. Contrary to all the Hew Testament teachings otherwise.

You also exhibit a complete and total failure to see that God will keep His promise to His Chosen

God will keep all His Promises. WE Christians are His Chosen people. 1 Peter 2:9-10, John 15:14-19

 

[ewq1938]

This is incorrect. The tribulation is OVER BEFORE the wrath of God BEGINS.

The coming of Jesus in Matthew 24 occurs at the 6th seal.

No, he comes at the last trump according to Paul. The last trump is the 7th. There is no coming at a seal anymore than the coming happened when Christ described it in the Olivet Discourse. The 6th seal is no different than that, just a description of the future event.

 

[dad]

The true Israelites of God are all the faithful Christian peoples. 1 Peter 2:9-10, Revelation 5:9-10
WE are the children of Abraham, by faith and in most cases, by descent as well, Galatians 3:23-29 & 6:14-16

None of these verses say any such thing. Example,
1 Peter 2:9
But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;
1 Peter 2:10
Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.

Notice that does not say we are the only people of God? The old testament people also obtained mercy. The Tribulation saints and Israel will also gain mercy.

The ungodly Jews, which is 99.5% of them: will be gone at the Sixth Seal wipeou

No. We are told approx how many will be killed and your claim is ridiculous.

Those who remain alive at that time will be transported thru the atmosphere, to Jerusalem; where Jesus will Return to. Zechariah 14:4

More fantasy.
He will gather them and protect them and etc etc as the bible says six ways from Sunday. You are very confused in most aspects of prophesy and basic doctrines.

That is because God's wrath IS His correction.

No. Not the 'wrath to come' or the seven years of wrath. That will correct people who then come to believe, that is true. The Bride/church will not be there though, since we are not appointed to wrath.

Noah's Flood, Genesis 6:13, was both.

That was similar but obviously not the Tribulation Jesus spoke about, or the prophets. Noah was appointed to be there and go through it. The Trib believers are also appointed. The Bride is not.

 

[ewq1938]

The Tribulation saints

They are known simply as saints. They enter the Great Tribulation as saints.

and Israel will also gain mercy.

That is not biblical. There is no such mass repentance of faithless Israel in the bible. Anyone who is not a Christian will take the mark in the Great Tribulation and the bible says the marked will refuse to repent:

Rev 16:2 And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image.
Rev 16:3 And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea.
Rev 16:4 And the third angel poured out his vial upon the rivers and fountains of waters; and they became blood.
Rev 16:5 And I heard the angel of the waters say, Thou art righteous, O Lord, which art, and wast, and shalt be, because thou hast judged thus.
Rev 16:6 For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets, and thou hast given them blood to drink; for they are worthy.
Rev 16:7 And I heard another out of the altar say, Even so, Lord God Almighty, true and righteous are thy judgments.
Rev 16:8 And the fourth angel poured out his vial upon the sun; and power was given unto him to scorch men with fire.
Rev 16:9 And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, which hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give him glory.

 

[dad]

This is incorrect. The tribulation is OVER BEFORE the wrath of God BEGINS.

The coming of Jesus in Matthew 24 occurs at the 6th seal.

That is incorrect.

Jeremiah 10:10
But the Lord is the true God, he is the living God, and an everlasting king: at his wrath the earth shall tremble, and the nations shall not be able to abide his indignation.

Zep 14 The great day of the Lord is near, it is near, and hasteth greatly, even the voice of the day of the Lord: the mighty man shall cry there bitterly.

15 That day is a day of wrath, a day of trouble and distress, a day of wasteness and desolation, a day of darkness and gloominess, a day of clouds and thick darkness,

Revelation 15:1
And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God.

 

[dad]

They are known simply as saints. They enter the Great Tribulation as saints.

Now they are known as the tribulation saints. When the time is here they will be the only saints around.

That is not biblical. There is no such mass repentance of faithless Israel in the bible.

All Israel shall be saved. They will look on Him whom they pierced and believe in the end, and weep as for an only son.

Anyone who is not a Christian will take the mark in the Great Tribulation and the bible says the marked will refuse to repent:

Says...who? You made that up.

Rev 16:2 And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image.

So who are those men? They are the people who did not choose to repent and be saved. NOT all people alive!

 

[ewq1938]

All Israel shall be saved.

Anyone who rejects Christ has been removed from Israel and anyone who isn't Israel but accepts Christ is grafted into Israel.

They will look on Him whom they pierced and believe in the end, and weep as for an only son.

Yeah mourning but no repenting. The unsaved will mourn when the second coming happens but they are marked and will refuse to repent as I have already shown.

Says...who? You made that up.

No, it's from Revelation 13. Have you read it before?

So who are those men? They are the people who did not choose to repent and be saved. NOT all people alive!

lol, of course they are alive. They are being torment by the vials of wrath. Those are all the Jews and Gentiles that did not accept Christ, but accepted the antichrist and receive the mark.

 

[dad]

Anyone who rejects Christ has been removed from Israel and anyone who isn't Israel but accepts Christ is grafted into Israel.

All removing is in the time of Jacob's trouble (tribulation). In the end all the remaining people of Israel get saved. Then He brings the Jewish (now believers) back to that land as promised.

Yeah mourning but no repenting. The unsaved will mourn when the second coming happens but they are marked and will refuse to repent as I have already shown.

You are in no position to cast judgment. We do know all Israel gets saved in the end.

lol, of course they are alive. They are being torment by the vials of wrath. Those are all the Jews and Gentiles that did not accept Christ, but accepted the antichrist and receive the mark.

So? What is your point? They are not the only ones alive on earth.

 

[ewq1938]

All removing is in the time of Jacob's trouble (tribulation).

Paul placed it able to happen in his time so it's been happening for a very long time.

In the end all the remaining people of Israel get saved.

Again, that isn't found in the bible.

 

[dad]

Paul placed it able to happen in his time so it's been happening for a very long time.

He never placed God restoring Jews to the land at all actually. Try to focus, and be honest.

Again, that isn't found in the bible.

Except it is actually.

Romans 11:26
And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

That does not happen until the end. If it did happen, then no 144,000 from the tribes if Israel would be needed to reach Israel in the end.

 

[ewq1938]

He never placed God restoring Jews to the land at all actually. Try to focus, and be honest.

Don't talk to me like that.

Except it is actually.

Romans 11:26
And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

That does not happen until the end. If it did happen, then no 144,000 from the tribes if Israel would be needed to reach Israel in the end.

Israel is composed of saved Christians, Jews and Gentiles. That has nothing at all to do with Jews that reject Christ. They are not Israel anymore and will not be saved unless they accept Christ and that is on an individual level not a national level.

 

[Keraz]

All Israel shall be saved

Does that include Judas?

Romans 11:26-27, And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Zion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

The quotation Paul uses is from Isaiah 59:20 And the Redeemer shall come to Zion, and unto them that turn from transgression in Jacob

When the Bible says that ALL ISRAEL shall be saved in Romans 11:26-27, it refers to only a remnant of the Jewish people and all true Christians, now the Israel of God.

The message to the individual is that he or she must “turn from transgression” to the Lord. There will be a remnant that will turn to him. All of them will be saved. He speaks of the saved remnant as the nation Israel.

Are the Jews still God's people? Yes, but only individuals who are both ethnic and spiritual Jews. Romans 2:29 Saved Gentiles have also been grafted into the tree and are now co-heirs of the promises of God to Israel. Galatians 3:26-29 The apostle Paul was a remnant Jew...

Romans 11:1, I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. Paul was an ethnic Israelite. Paul says that it's all by God's grace... Romans 11:5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace. Romans 9:27

In other words, by grace through faith, plus or minus nothing, in the Lord Jesus Christ. Only through faith in Jesus can anyone be a child of God. Confirmed by:

Galatians 3:26-29, For you are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if you are Christ's, then are you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Clearly, Galatians 3:26-29 states that unsaved Jews cannot be Abraham's spiritual seed, nor are they heirs of the promises of God made to Israel in the Bible. The Bible is very plain on this subject that only born-again Christian believers of any ethnicity are heirs of the promises of God. True, righteous Christians from every race, nation and language are God's people; the Israelites of God.

There is neither Jew nor Gentile in Christ. So we can divide all humanity into one or other of these two groups:
1/ Every godless unbeliever including the non-Christian Jews and
2/ All Christian believers, Jews and Gentiles.; people from every race, nation and language. Isaiah 66:18b, Revelation 5:9-10

God never blesses wicked evildoers. When the Jews rejected Jesus, God gave them into the hands of their enemies, as in 70 AD. Then, for continuing in their disbelief; the many pogroms and the Holocaust. Now they face the third swing of the Sword, Ezekiel 21:1-16, Zephaniah 1:1-18, +


Romans 11:1-2 and 19-23, I say then, Has God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. God has not cast away his people which he foreknew…..You may say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in. Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and we Christians stand by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward you, blessing, so keep your faith: otherwise you also shalt be cut off. And they also, if they change their ways, shall be grafted back in: for God is able to graft them in again.

This Scripture plainly teaches that ONLY Jews who believe the Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ will be grafted back into the tree as God's people. Jeremiah 12:14-16 proves this.


God cut off Judah in 586 BC for their continuous and stiffnecked rebellion against His Word, even killing the prophets.

God still loves His people, His true people who obey Him, and any Jew can be grafted back into the tree, but all Christ-rejecting Jews are NOT GOD'S PEOPLE. The Parable of the Vineyard shows how the ethnic Jewish people have lost their status. Matthew 21:33-46, Luke 19:27


Less than .025% of the Jews living in Israel today profess to be a Christian. Only a fool thinks that God loves the apostate, atheistic, gay pride, Christ rejecting Jews. These types are NOT God's people.

So only the saved Jews are part of God's people, but most are saved Gentiles. Only believers in Jesus Christ can claim to be heirs of the promises of God originally given to Israel, but now applicable to every faithful Christian.

Galatians 3:29 proclaims this truth...And if you be Christ's, then are you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise. Romans 8:16-17

 

[dad]

Israel is composed of saved Christians, Jews and Gentiles.

You thought God was bringing gog to attack saved people?

That has nothing at all to do with Jews that reject Christ. They are not Israel anymore and will not be saved unless they accept Christ and that is on an individual level not a national level.

When all the remaining (remnant) people in a nation get saved it is no longer some little personal thing.

 

[ewq1938]

You thought God was bringing gog to attack saved people?

No one thinks that.

When all the remaining (remnant) people in a nation get saved it is no longer some little personal thing.

That isn't going to happen.

 

[dad]

Does that include Judas?

It simply includes the folks in Israel left alive after most are killed in that time of trouble coming. Finally, after severe judgments, they will be saved. Not sure why you dredged up some vile person from thousands of years ago.

The quotation Paul uses is from Isaiah 59:20 And the Redeemer shall come to Zion, and unto them that turn from transgression in Jacob

Right, they do turn in the end. Not now. What are you missing here, it seems obvious as the nose on your face.

When the Bible says that ALL ISRAEL shall be saved in Romans 11:26-27, it refers to only a remnant of the Jewish people and all true Christians, now the Israel of God.

More specifically, the remnant that is alive in the very end...not now.

The message to the individual is that he or she must “turn from transgression” to the Lord. There will be a remnant that will turn to him. All of them will be saved. He speaks of the saved remnant as the nation Israel.

And the message to Israel is that God has not forsaken them and IF they call out to Him (Jesus) He will save them, and does save them in the end.

Are the Jews still God's people? Yes, but only individuals who are both ethnic and spiritual Jews. Romans 2:29 Saved Gentiles have also been grafted into the tree and are now co-heirs of the promises of God to Israel. Galatians 3:26-29 The apostle Paul was a remnant Jew...

All Israel is NOT saved now. All Israel WILL be saved one day (the remnant)

In other words, by grace through faith, plus or minus nothing, in the Lord Jesus Christ. Only through faith in Jesus can anyone be a child of God. Confirmed by:

That is EXACTLY how the remnant in the end are saved. By belief in Jesus. Not now.

Galatians 3:26-29, For you are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if you are Christ's, then are you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Yes we are the seed of Abraham. We are heirs. Heirs of WHAT? The kingdom of God and eternal life. (not some dessert in the mid east) We are children of God by faith.

Clearly, Galatians 3:26-29 states that unsaved Jews cannot be Abraham's spiritual seed, nor are they heirs of the promises of God made to Israel in the Bible.

UNBELIEVING (in Jesus) Jews are not heirs! The remnant who all get saved in the end ARE.

There is neither Jew nor Gentile in Christ. So we can divide all humanity into one or other of these two groups:
1/ Every godless unbeliever including the non-Christian Jews and
2/ All Christian believers, Jews and Gentiles.; people from every race, nation and language. Isaiah 66:18b, Revelation 5:9-10

All believers NOW are the Bride/church. That does NOT mean that Israel in it's time will not also believe.

Romans 11:1-2 and 19-23, I say then, Has God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. God has not cast away his people which he foreknew…..You may say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in. Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and we Christians stand by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward you, blessing, so keep your faith: otherwise you also shalt be cut off. And they also, if they change their ways, shall be grafted back in: for God is able to graft them in again.

Who gets spared in Israel in the Tribulation are the saved Jews. They are not saved by birth for being physical children of Abraham. They are given a chance to be saved.

This Scripture plainly teaches that ONLY Jews who believe the Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ will be grafted back into the tree as God's people. Jeremiah 12:14-16 proves this.

What tree? The Bride? Only Jews who get saved now, before He returns to rapture us are part of the church. The ones that get saved later are saints and saved also, but we the church are long gone.

Less than .025% of the Jews living in Israel today profess to be a Christian. Only a fool thinks that God loves the apostate, atheistic, gay pride, Christ rejecting Jews. These types are NOT God's people.

God loves the world. Sinners are what is in this world! They can all be saved if they come to Jesus.

So only the saved Jews are part of God's people, but most are saved Gentiles. Only believers in Jesus Christ can claim to be heirs of the promises of God originally given to Israel, but now applicable to every faithful Christian.

All Israel is NOT saved NOW. Just those who believe in Jesus, but one day all Israel will be saved. Not now.

 

[dad]

No one thinks that.




That isn't going to happen.

Except all Israel will be saved, says God Almighty. Your opinion is overruled.

 

[ewq1938]

Except all Israel will be saved, says God Almighty. Your opinion is overruled.

So Judas and the Pharisees all will get saved etc. No, you are wrong. Israel is the Christian church. Yes, all Israel/church will be saved.