Timing of Eze 37 and 38 pre Trib?

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shilohsfoal

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You are not God and your opinion is your own actually. Did I say God was wrong?? Why say things that are not true in any way? So I am not sure what your point is. Are you saying that there can and is only one battle involving Gog? or..?

Gog attempts to Invade Israel only one time. God says Gog would be destroyed at that time. Not two or three times. Both Ezekiel and revelations show Gog invading Israel after the first resurection when Israel is safe and secure not needing walls or bars.

As of now Israelis die everyday and will continue to die until Christ comes and God's chosen have been resurrected. Then and only then will they be safe.
 

Timtofly

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He is called the prince of the people who will come and destroy the sanctuary. when you couple him with all the other prophecies, you learn he is the antichrist!
The first century Jews brought upon themselves such destruction. Jerusalem was destroyed in 70AD. Verse 27 is about Jesus as Prince at the Second Coming to sit on His throne in Jerusalem, the city of David. And the city will not be destroyed nor laid waste after the Second Coming. Two totally unrelated events.
 

ewq1938

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The first century Jews brought upon themselves such destruction. Jerusalem was destroyed in 70AD. Verse 27 is about Jesus as Prince at the Second Coming to sit on His throne in Jerusalem, the city of David. And the city will not be destroyed nor laid waste after the Second Coming. Two totally unrelated events.


Well, there are two massive earthquakes that will cause a lot of damage, one just before the second coming and one during the vials that same day:

Rev 11:13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.
Rev 11:14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.
Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
Rev 11:16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
Rev 11:17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
Rev 11:19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

This second earthquake is mentioned here as well:

Rev 16:18 And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great.

Largest earthquake in human history.
 

Timtofly

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Well, there are two massive earthquakes that will cause a lot of damage, one just before the second coming and one during the vials that same day:

Rev 11:13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.
Rev 11:14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.
Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
Rev 11:16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
Rev 11:17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
Rev 11:19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

This second earthquake is mentioned here as well:

Rev 16:18 And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great.

Largest earthquake in human history.
The earthquake in 11 with the 2 witnesses is the same earthquake in 16 with the 7 vials. The 7 vials are poured out while the 2 witnesses lay dead in Jerusalem for 3.5 days.
 

ewq1938

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The earthquake in 11 with the 2 witnesses is the same earthquake in 16 with the 7 vials. The 7 vials are poured out while the 2 witnesses lay dead in Jerusalem for 3.5 days.


No, they are two separate earthquakes and no vial pours until Christ returns. In fact the world is celebrating the two prophets deaths so no vials of wrath yet:

Rev 11:8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
Rev 11:9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.
Rev 11:10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.

That relates directly to this:

Luk 17:26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.
Luk 17:27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.
Luk 17:28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
Luk 17:29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
Luk 17:30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.
 

shilohsfoal

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This is a thread to discuss the invasion of Israel by the forces led by the Northern power. This thread is not for people that view Revelations and most prophesies as history or present. So here is the question, and it is from a standpoint of asking rather than knowing it all.

Ezekiel 38:18
And it shall come to pass at the same time when Gog shall come against the land of Israel, saith the Lord God , that my fury shall come up in my face.

So could this be the start of the Tribulation, where the Rapture occurs? The start of God's wrath!?
This great war sounds like it is not the final war, where nations gathered (again in Israel) just when He returns to earth and destroys them all. The final in Rev 19 battle is similar in that birds are called to dispose of the dead people. Are these 2 different battles?
If so, why? If not, why?

The war of Rev 19 you speak of can be found mentioned in Ezekiel 38:8.It refers to the war of Armegeddon in which the former rulers of the land of Israel were destroyed and the land destroyed.
The people who are brought forth to the mountains of Israel come during this war in which the land must recover from before Gog invades.

Ezekiel 38:8 After a long time you will be summoned. In the latter years you will enter a land that has recovered from war, whose people were gathered from many nations to the mountains of Israel, which had long been desolate. They had been brought out from the nations, and all now dwell securely.

After this war Ezekiel speaks of the Ezekiel 38:8,the people who Christ gathers into Israel will enjoy a time of peace.

Zech 14:5 also mentions the war of Rev 19 in which the Israelis are killed and flee from the land when Christ gathers the saints into the land of Israel.

Zechariah 14:5 KJV: And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

Jesus spoke of this gathering of the saints to Israel in the gospel. He said the people living there at the time will go into exile.

Luke 13:28 There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth when you see Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, but you yourselves are thrown out.
 
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Timtofly

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No, they are two separate earthquakes and no vial pours until Christ returns. In fact the world is celebrating the two prophets deaths so no vials of wrath yet:

Rev 11:8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
Rev 11:9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.
Rev 11:10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.

That relates directly to this:

Luk 17:26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.
Luk 17:27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.
Luk 17:28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
Luk 17:29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
Luk 17:30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.
Sorry but they are the same event. God pours out the 7 vials which will obviously stop this celebration party soon after it starts.

The 2 witnesses 1260 days is the same time period as the 42 months in chapter 13. Both events happen if the 7th Trumpet is interrupted.
1260 days is the same length of time roughly as 42 months. Which is also 3.5 years. This is the only absolute time mentioned in the whole book of Revelation besides the 5 months of the 5th Trumpet event.

Jesus and the 144k are on Mount Zion during this time, and not in Jerusalem. So only the two witnesses go through this 42 month period. They are the one's convincing those on the fence to be beheaded. That is their alter call. Otherwise they just destroy their enemies. Their message and death to their enemies is why those with the mark celebrate when they are finally allowed to be killed. But that celebration is indeed cut short when during those 3.5 days God's final wrath is poured out on them, because they rejected the testimony of those 2 witnesses.


"And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them. And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand."

"And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done. And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great. And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath. And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found. And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great."

Nothing in either passage contradict each other. They compliment each other in the over all perspective.

The point of contention is how John transitions back into the chronological narrative after the parenthetical about the 2 witnesses. Part of chapter 10 is already describing the 7th Trumpet. The 6th Trumpet is over even before the 7 Thunders. Revelation 11 is a parenthetical about the 7th Trumpet, not the 6th Trumpet. Chapter 12 is a parenthetical about the 7th Trumpet, not the 6th Trumpet. Chapter 13 is a parenthetical about the 7th Trumpet, not the 6th Trumpet. This verse does not mean what you think it does: Revelation 11:14

"The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly."

All this verse does it get past the parenthetical and back to the chronological narrative. Of course the second woe is past. It was over back in Revelation 9:18-21


"By these three was the third part of men killed, by the fire, and by the smoke, and by the brimstone, which issued out of their mouths. For their power is in their mouth, and in their tails: for their tails were like unto serpents, and had heads, and with them they do hurt. And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk: Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts."

This concluded the 6th Trumpet and the Second Woe. The next verses cover the 7 Thunders: Revelation 10:1-4

"And I saw another mighty angel come down from heaven, clothed with a cloud: and a rainbow was upon his head, and his face was as it were the sun, and his feet as pillars of fire: And he had in his hand a little book open: and he set his right foot upon the sea, and his left foot on the earth, And cried with a loud voice, as when a lion roareth: and when he had cried, seven thunders uttered their voices. And when the seven thunders had uttered their voices, I was about to write: and I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Seal up those things which the seven thunders uttered, and write them not."

All of this takes place before we are introduced to the 2 witnesses. The rest of chapter 10 deals with the 7th Trumpet. There is no going back to describe the 6th Trumpet, after chapter 9. This verse only gets our mind back into the chronological groove:

"The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly."

This 3.5 year, or 42 month, or 1260 days described in Revelation 11, 12, and 13 is only dealing with the 7th Trumpet. Revelation 10:7

"But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets."

Every point John makes after this verse deals with the 7th Trumpet. John does not even declare a return at the 7th Trumpet unless you accept the 7th Trumpet is still sounding 42 months later at the battle of Armageddon. The 7th Trumpet starts sounding even before the parenthetical of Revelation 12-13.

"And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever."

Jesus and His angels along with the 144k just wrapped up the final harvest during the GT of the 6 Trumpets and 7 Thunders. The angels and Jesus arrived at the 6th Seal. Then the 144k were sealed. Then the 7th Seal was opened. Then the 6 Trumpets sounded, and then 7 Thunders were heard. The final harvest was during this time, however long or short. It cannot be defined as no one knows the day or hour the 6th Seal will be opened, and the Second Coming fulfilled. It could be months, weeks, or even days. But at least 5 months for the 5th Trumpet, which could extend into the 7 Thunders. No one is saying 5 months has to end, before the 6th Trumpet sounds.

Remember your verse though, the 7th Trumpet cannot sound until all the Trumpets and Thunders are over.

"The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly."

The 7th Trumpet is not the 3rd Woe. The coming quickly part would be within 4 days of the start of the 7th Trumpet. The 7th Trumpet is a week long celebration. Daniel 9:27 is a week of days. The 7th Trumpet is a week of days. Revelation 10:7 declares the days of the sound of the 7th Trumpet.

The third woe is this week being split in half. That is the woe, not the 7th Trumpet itself. The confirmation of the Atonement Covenant by Jesus is the condition this woe is hanging on.

Satan being allowed 42 months is the woe of utter desolation. That the week cannot finish by the next Sunday is the 3rd Woe. When the 7th Trumpet sounds is when Satan and his angels are cast out of heaven. They only have 4 days at the most left. Satan is not automatically granted 42 months. It all could be over when the 7th Trumpet stops sounding, at the end of one week.

The only reason the week is put on hold, there are 2 witnesses, and Satan is allowed 42 months is that some humans will still choose God over Satan, even when Satan is in total control. Not even Satan can force people against their will, despite having sin natures. Some will still choose to be beheaded in spite of Satan's free reign on outright rebellion and wickedness against God.

The 7 vials are poured out at the end of the 42 months, because a deal is a deal. If Satan gets 42 months, God will not interfere at all during those 42 months. So the vials of God's wrath are only poured out after Satan is allowed to kill the 2 witnesses. God will work through 2 humans, but that is it. Revelation 17 and 18 just point out the wickedness allowed during these 42 months.
 

Ronald Nolette

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You believe alot of blind people following after a beast is the resurection of Israel.
And no, Gog will not be invading Israel for more than 1000 years from now. The next war to hit Israel will be the nations taking Jerusalem from those unbelieving jews, raping thier women and leading them away in captivity.

Zechariah 14:2 For I will gather all the nations for battle against Jerusalem, and the city will be captured, the houses looted, and the women ravished. Half of the city will go into exile, but the rest of the people will not be removed from the city.

No I don't believe that, but thanks for making a false claim!

And Magog( Russia) with its allies, Iran, Libya, Ethipia, turkey, and many of the "istans" will be an invasion that occurs before the antichrist signs the 7 year treaty with Israel. whether it is the next was Israel fights, time will tell.

Yes during teh tribulation period (the 70th week of Daniel) 2/3 of all Israelis in the land will be killed! The 1/3 that survives will call upon the Lord and receive Jesus as Messiah and cry- Blessed is He who comes in the name of the4 Lord, thus causing the Lord to return!
 

Ronald Nolette

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The first century Jews brought upon themselves such destruction. Jerusalem was destroyed in 70AD. Verse 27 is about Jesus as Prince at the Second Coming to sit on His throne in Jerusalem, the city of David. And the city will not be destroyed nor laid waste after the Second Coming. Two totally unrelated events.


Well I agree 70 Ad and the return of Jesus are unrelated events. but because you have no understanding of grammar, you falsely call the prince of the people who will destroy the sanctuary Jesus.

26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate

YOu have to break the rules of Grammar God established for us to understand written words , and then reinterpret the Scripture to make the prince of the people to be Jesus!

For the HE of verse 27 refers back to its nearest antecedent ( in every language including Hebrew, Greek, and English) which means the prince of the people who will come. Sop you make Jesus a roman ruler!
 

shilohsfoal

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No I don't believe that, but thanks for making a false claim!

And Magog( Russia) with its allies, Iran, Libya, Ethipia, turkey, and many of the "istans" will be an invasion that occurs before the antichrist signs the 7 year treaty with Israel. whether it is the next was Israel fights, time will tell.

Yes during teh tribulation period (the 70th week of Daniel) 2/3 of all Israelis in the land will be killed! The 1/3 that survives will call upon the Lord and receive Jesus as Messiah and cry- Blessed is He who comes in the name of the4 Lord, thus causing the Lord to return!

Well that is what happened(a migration) and you said you believed that migration is God bringing the dead back to life as Ezekiel described.
That is what most people refer to as the resurection. When the dead come back to life.

So I take it you don't really believe God will raise the dead from thier Graves like he said?You believe that means live people will migrate from one country to another?

Ezekiel 37:12 Therefore prophesy and tell them that this is what the Lord GOD says: 'O My people, I will open your graves and bring you up from them, and I will bring you back to the land of Israel.
Ezekiel 37:13 Then you, My people, will know that I am the LORD, when I open your graves and bring you up from them.
Ezekiel 37:14 I will put My Spirit in you and you will live, and I will settle you in your own land. Then you will know that I, the LORD, have spoken, and I will do it, declares the LORD.'"
 
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Ronald Nolette

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Well that is what happened(a migration) and you said you believed that migration is God bringing the dead back to life as Ezekiel described.
That is what most people refer to as the resurection. When the dead come back to life.

So I take it you don't really believe God will raise the dead people in Israel?


Well if you stopped pre thinking what I believe you would not sound like you have no knowledge!

Ez. 37 is th e nation coming back to Israel! and being reunited. It is a metaphor and not to be taken literally! do you need someone to teach you what a metaphor means?

God will raise all men! Including the dead buried in Israel!
 

shilohsfoal

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Well if you stopped pre thinking what I believe you would not sound like you have no knowledge!

Ez. 37 is th e nation coming back to Israel! and being reunited. It is a metaphor and not to be taken literally! do you need someone to teach you what a metaphor means?

God will raise all men! Including the dead buried in Israel!

Well, that is the only time God said he would raise the dead from thier Graves in Israel and you said when God said he would raise the dead from thier Graves that doesn't mean that God will raise the dead from thier Graves but you said it really means people will move from one country to another.

If you are right there is a great resurection taking place now in Poland. People are moving from Ukraine to Poland. It's a miracle.

Revelation 17:8 The beast that you saw--it was, and now is no more, but is about to come up out of the Abyss and go to its destruction. And those who dwell on the earth whose names were not written in the Book of Life from the foundation of the world will marvel when they see the beast that was, and is not, and yet will be.
 
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Ronald Nolette

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Well, that is the only time God said he would raise the dead from thier Graves in Israel and you said when God said he would raise the dead from thier Graves that doesn't mean that God will raise the dead from thier Graves but you said it really means people will move from one country to another.

If you are right there is a great resurection taking place now in Poland. People are moving from Ukraine to Poland. It's a miracle.

Revelation 17:8 The beast that you saw--it was, and now is no more, but is about to come up out of the Abyss and go to its destruction. And those who dwell on the earth whose names were not written in the Book of Life from the foundation of the world will marvel when they see the beast that was, and is not, and yet will be.


A dictionary can be y0our firend.

You sseem to wish to strain at gnats. I am a literalist, but you are a hyper literalist. Do you think teh beast coming out of teh sea in REv. 12 is actually a beast coming out of the sea?
 

shilohsfoal

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A dictionary can be y0our firend.

You sseem to wish to strain at gnats. I am a literalist, but you are a hyper literalist. Do you think teh beast coming out of teh sea in REv. 12 is actually a beast coming out of the sea?

The beast once existed but at the time John wrote revelation it did not exist. When it reappeared, people were astonished because it once existed and did not and yet is again.
Some people say that is the resurection. Ezekiel 37 predicted.

But I don't believe so.
 

Timtofly

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Well I agree 70 Ad and the return of Jesus are unrelated events. but because you have no understanding of grammar, you falsely call the prince of the people who will destroy the sanctuary Jesus.

26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate

YOu have to break the rules of Grammar God established for us to understand written words , and then reinterpret the Scripture to make the prince of the people to be Jesus!

For the HE of verse 27 refers back to its nearest antecedent ( in every language including Hebrew, Greek, and English) which means the prince of the people who will come. Sop you make Jesus a roman ruler!
Then start at the beginning, because you are breaking your own rules.

"Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times."

Jesus is both the Messiah and the Prince to come. Gabriel established that both Messiah and Prince make up the 70th week. Messiah was not the whole 7 years. Prince will not be the whole 7 years. Messiah was cut off at 3.5 years. Prince will be for the whole Millennium. But the time to end the 70th week is reckoned prior to the start of the Millennium. Those remaining 3.5 years will keep getting shorter per Matthew 24:23

"And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened."

So this 3.5 years keeps loosing days, up until the Second Coming. The 6 Trumpets and 7 Thunders happen after the Second Coming in whatever time remains. The end goal is to gather a larger church by holding off the rapture of the church. Once the rapture happens, that is it, no more elect gathered with the church as the glorified church. Those after the rapture live on the earth and reign with Christ (Messiah) the Prince on the earth.
 

dad

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Gog attempts to Invade Israel only one time. God says Gog would be destroyed at that time. Not two or three times. Both Ezekiel and revelations show Gog invading Israel after the first resurection when Israel is safe and secure not needing walls or bars.

As of now Israelis die everyday and will continue to die until Christ comes and God's chosen have been resurrected. Then and only then will they be safe.
Great, another poster that likes to spout off his opinion as if it could be the only one and God agrees with him. Anyhow, I think I posted many reasons why the invasion did not sound like the events at the end of the 1000 years. Now if you were trying to say that maybe also the chapter applies to the end of the 1000 years, or part of the chapter does, well we could look at that. Your silly insistence that it all must only be about the end of the 1000 years is not worthy of serious discussion.
 

dad

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The war of Rev 19 you speak of can be found mentioned in Ezekiel 38:8.It refers to the war of Armegeddon in which the former rulers of the land of Israel were destroyed and the land destroyed.
The people who are brought forth to the mountains of Israel come during this war in which the land must recover from before Gog invades.

Ezekiel 38:8 After a long time you will be summoned. In the latter years you will enter a land that has recovered from war, whose people were gathered from many nations to the mountains of Israel, which had long been desolate. They had been brought out from the nations, and all now dwell securely.

After this war Ezekiel speaks of the Ezekiel 38:8,the people who Christ gathers into Israel will enjoy a time of peace.

Zech 14:5 also mentions the war of Rev 19 in which the Israelis are killed and flee from the land when Christ gathers the saints into the land of Israel.

Zechariah 14:5 KJV: And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

Jesus spoke of this gathering of the saints to Israel in the gospel. He said the people living there at the time will go into exile.

Luke 13:28 There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth when you see Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, but you yourselves are thrown out.
So now you seem to be saying that Eze 38 talks about the events in the Tribulation. Try being clear.
 

shilohsfoal

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So now you seem to be saying that Eze 38 talks about the events in the Tribulation. Try being clear.

I was clear. You simply can't understand.
Ezekiel coresponds to revelation. They both say the same things concerning the order of things. You simply can't understand them.
I would say there is a good explanation why you can't understand. I will leave it at that.
 

Ronald Nolette

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The beast once existed but at the time John wrote revelation it did not exist. When it reappeared, people were astonished because it once existed and did not and yet is again.
Some people say that is the resurection. Ezekiel 37 predicted.

But I don't believe so.

So then in your opinion who or what was the beast and who or what was the religious figure (lamb with 2 horns) that ordered the image of the beast and what was the mark?
 

Ronald Nolette

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Then start at the beginning, because you are breaking your own rules.

"Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times."

Jesus is both the Messiah and the Prince to come. Gabriel established that both Messiah and Prince make up the 70th week. Messiah was not the whole 7 years. Prince will not be the whole 7 years. Messiah was cut off at 3.5 years. Prince will be for the whole Millennium. But the time to end the 70th week is reckoned prior to the start of the Millennium. Those remaining 3.5 years will keep getting shorter per Matthew 24:23

"And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened."

So this 3.5 years keeps loosing days, up until the Second Coming. The 6 Trumpets and 7 Thunders happen after the Second Coming in whatever time remains. The end goal is to gather a larger church by holding off the rapture of the church. Once the rapture happens, that is it, no more elect gathered with the church as the glorified church. Those after the rapture live on the earth and reign with Christ (Messiah) the Prince on the earth.

Wow have you rewritten scripture even worse than the Watchtower!

Now you have Jesus as a Roman prince. what 7 year covenant did this Messiah of yours make with the many?