Thoughting again!....oh no, is that allowed?

[Addy]

Good morning @Truman the Levite The parrot is not dead... it's RESTING...

 

[Daniel Veler]

Let me say a few things about Christ. In the beginning before the angels were created it is said “ let’s us make man in our image.” Paul wrote that when God said these words it was referring to him and Christ. Christ was before the angels. So Christ could not of been Michael or any other angel because when God spoke those words the angels did not exist. Another thought would be is the scriptures tells us that Christ was foreordained to go to Calvert and die before the foundation of the world. Christ was with the father from the beginning. And about the name of Christ. It shows to us God’s plan. His name Emmanuel means god is with us. Christ said my Father and I are one, I am in him and he is in me. The words I speak are not my words but my father, words. What he tells me to say I say it. Another name giving to Christ was Jesus meant savour. The names reveal God’s plan. What’s more astounding is what God called him. He called him Son. He said this is my beloved Son in whom I am well please. Christ said when you pray - pray in the name of the Father, in the name of the Son and in the Name of the Holy Spirit. Why didn’t Christ use any other name like Jesus or Emmanuel. I will call him Son because that’s what called him.

 

[Truman]

Elohim said, "Let us make man in our image." Father, Son, Holy Spirt.
Yeshua always called Himself, "the son of man." See books of Daniel, 1 Enoch.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Jesus is the name given to the man who amongst other things has divided Earth's history.

This man crucified as a criminal also has many titles, like 'Prince of Peace', The Everlasting Father, The Alpha and Omega, Immanuel, King of Kings, Lamb of God and many more but did the angels know him as Jesus prior to his incarnation on Earth?

'The Angel of the LORD encamps around about those who fear him....' Psalm 34:7
It was the Angel of the LORD who followed Israel in the cloud. There are other references of this nature as well where Jesus is referenced as an Angel.

Could it be that prior to Jesus incarnation as a man; to the Angels he was known as Michael, as referenced in Daniel 10:21 and 12:1?....I would say, The Arch Angel?. Even in the above quote in Psalms, David's reference is an 'Angel'... in fact, the Angel of the LORD....all capitals. We know that when LORD is translated in Capitals it is the personal name of God.

The account of Sarai, Hagar and Ishmael in Genesis 16 is worth looking at regarding this.

Looking up the meaning of 'Michael' is also interesting.

By the way, 'name' means character.
'hallowed be thy name' ... 'has a name above every other name' .... 'on his thigh was written a name which only he himself knew'.

Another thought....the invisible God who Jesus said is a Spirit and only seen by the Son reveals himself through the Son.....to the angels as an angel.....to men as a man?

I think you might be working too hard with your mind to learn about God. I think you should leave that and concentrate on a simple and pure trust as that is what pleases Him most and gets us furthest the fastest. Trust Him, not your mind.

 

[NayborBear]

Had to ask since you defend Kingdom Hall doctrines.

Perhaps you could help me in understanding what the kingdom hall doctrines are?

You are now saying I was defending kingdom hall doctrines in my trying to correct the "thoughting" that Jesus of Nazareth was Archangel Michael before he was Jesus of Nazareth?
Or?
I am defending kingdom hall doctrines in posting a video that makes a statement that God told this feller in the story that "He's not the kind ya hafta wind up on Sunday?"

Or perhaps you think I am defending kingdom hall doctrines in posting a video from a guy, who has probably done yours and my share of "wineing, and womanizing, and singing?"

I guess this means that you are not of a doctrine that would give credit to those "blind squirrels" that find a "nut" every now and again?

 

[BarneyFife]

This cannot be true! Because if it is? This isn't!
Job 1:6
Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them.

And wouldn't these be the fellows mentioned here?:
Hebrews 1:
9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; Therefore God, thy God, hath anointed thee With the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

Ya see? There's a lot pertaining to the "governmental structure" of the Kingdom of God, that (not so) coincidentally Christ bares on His shoulders.

But Christ being the arch angel Michael at any time? Nah! :)

Sorry, I just don't use paradox in Scripture to put God in a box.

• How canst thou by searching find out God?
• But if from thence thou shalt seek the LORD thy God, thou shalt find him, if thou seek him with all thy heart and with all thy soul.

 

[NayborBear]

I think you might be working too hard with your mind to learn about God. I think you should leave that and concentrate on a simple and pure trust as that is what pleases Him most and gets us furthest the fastest. Trust Him, not your mind.

Matthew 22:
37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Matthew 22:
37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

Other verses balance that out. I have to go to work but will try to return with them.

 

[BarneyFife]

Says Kingdom Hall?

Watchtower teaches that Jesus is an angel, if I'm not mistaken. I believe that Christ is the Everlasting Father, THE MIGHTY GOD. He is everything; in Him we live and move and have our being. All things were created by Him, and without Him was not anything made that was made. He qualifies as Saviour because He possesses life completely unborrowed, in and of HIMSELF. Calvary is the centerpiece of time, space, and matter.

I hope I've stated this clearly enough. Christ and His Father ARE ONE. He just also happens to be the supremely divine Commander of the Heavenly Host. Try to see the difference between this and "Come over to the dark side, Luke." It won't hurt you. Try "thoughting." Let God out of your box, maybe. :cool:;)

 

[NayborBear]

Sorry, I just don't use paradox in Scripture to put God in a box.

• How canst thou by searching find out God?
• But if from thence thou shalt seek the LORD thy God, thou shalt find him, if thou seek him with all thy heart and with all thy soul.

Well? If you believe that Jesus of Nazareth was the Archangel Michael, before Jesus of Nazareth was Jesus of Nazareth?
Then Pray; Tell! How did you arrive at such a revelation?

I'll wait. :)

 

[BarneyFife]

Jesus is the name given to the man who amongst other things has divided Earth's history.

This man crucified as a criminal also has many titles, like 'Prince of Peace', The Everlasting Father, The Alpha and Omega, Immanuel, King of Kings, Lamb of God and many more but did the angels know him as Jesus prior to his incarnation on Earth?

'The Angel of the LORD encamps around about those who fear him....' Psalm 34:7
It was the Angel of the LORD who followed Israel in the cloud. There are other references of this nature as well where Jesus is referenced as an Angel.

Could it be that prior to Jesus incarnation as a man; to the Angels he was known as Michael, as referenced in Daniel 10:21 and 12:1?....I would say, The Arch Angel?. Even in the above quote in Psalms, David's reference is an 'Angel'... in fact, the Angel of the LORD....all capitals. We know that when LORD is translated in Capitals it is the personal name of God.

The account of Sarai, Hagar and Ishmael in Genesis 16 is worth looking at regarding this.

Looking up the meaning of 'Michael' is also interesting.

By the way, 'name' means character.
'hallowed be thy name' ... 'has a name above every other name' .... 'on his thigh was written a name which only he himself knew'.

Another thought....the invisible God who Jesus said is a Spirit and only seen by the Son reveals himself through the Son.....to the angels as an angel.....to men as a man?

I think you might be working too hard with your mind to learn about God. I think you should leave that and concentrate on a simple and pure trust as that is what pleases Him most and gets us furthest the fastest. Trust Him, not your mind.

IOW, you can't just be going around thoughting.

 

[BarneyFife]

Well? If you believe that Jesus of Nazareth was the Archangel Michael, before Jesus of Nazareth was Jesus of Nazareth?
Then Pray; Tell! How did you arrive at such a revelation?

I'll wait. :)

Wait all you like. It's complicated and I don't tutor on command.

 

[Amazed@grace]

If we define Jesus as the greatest human being that ever lived could/would we call him the archhuman?

No.

 

[NayborBear]

Other verses balance that out. I have to go to work but will try to return with them.

There was a time when I was "gainfully employed."
But I showed 'em!
When I turned 62?
I RETIRED!
I was so much older then! I'm younger then that now! :)

 

[Amazed@grace]

Says Kingdom Hall?

Kingdom Hall doesn't believe Jesus is Michael?

Watch Tower Society teaches that. They are Jehovah Witnesses.
Is Jesus Michael the archangel?

Kingdom Hall is one of the names used for their place of worship.

 

[BarneyFife]

The name Michael, like the name Emmanuel, is simply another name for Jesus. An examination of the 5 references to Michael reveals this fact. Jude 1:9 directly calls him the “archangel” and Paul identifies Jesus as the archangel whose voice resurrects the dead (1 Thessalonians 4:16). We know for sure it’s Jesus’ voice, and not that he is using another Being’s voice, because he said that all who are in the grave will hear “his voice…” (John 5:25, 28-29). Additionally, a striking parallel between Jude 1:9 and Zechariah 3:2 reveals that it is “the LORD” who actually rebukes Satan. Moreover, while Daniel 10:13 says that Michael is “one of the chief princes,” yet Daniel 12:1 makes it clear he is the greatest among all princes. Daniel 10:21 and Revelation 12:7 point unequivocally to Jesus because these texts say that Michael is the leader of both the heavenly and earthly hosts, which we know are characteristics that combined belong to Jesus alone (compare with Matthew 13:41, Revelation 19:11-14 and 1 Corinthians 11:3). Putting all this together we see that it is Jesus, not an angel, who resurrects the dead, Jesus, not an angel, who commands and leads the angels, and Jesus, not an angel, who is the ultimate leader of God’s people.

Additionally, throughout the Old Testament we constantly find the appearance of an “Angel of the Lord/Captain of the Lord’s host” who manifestly turns out to be God (see Genesis 16:7-10, 13, 22:15-16, 31:11-13, 32:24-30, Joshua 5:13-15, Judges 13:21-22, Exodus 3:3-6, Daniel 3:24-25, 28 and Malachi 3:1). After seeing the Angel many of these prophets claimed to have seen God himself. Since “no man has seen God” (John 1:18, 1 John 4:12) and since each context identifies this Angel as either God, son of God or a special messenger, evidently the “angel” that appeared to them was none other than Jesus Christ himself. This doesn’t mean that Jesus is a created angelic being, but that Jesus is God’s special messenger, which is what the word “angel” means.

The most common objections to this have not been able to refute it. Critics appeal to Daniel 10:13 because it says that Michael is “one of the chief princes” but as we learned, he is the greatest of all princes. It’s only fitting that it would say “one of” because the context itself mentions two other princes (verses 13, 20). Jude 1:9 is also appealed to because it says that Michael “dared not bring against him a railing accusation” but “railing accusation” means to slander, so we expect Jesus not to act like a devil anyway. Finally, critics often portray all of this as saying that Jesus is a created angelic being, but this shows a serious lack of understanding of what the Bible actually teaches regarding the full and eternal divinity of Jesus. It is not Michael a created being, but Jesus, manifested as “Michael,” who resurrects the dead, commands the hosts of heaven and leads God’s people by his divine authority.

 

[Amazed@grace]

Amen! I think Kingdom Hall is invading Christian forums.

Watch Tower Society. Or, Jehovah Witnesses.

Kingdom Hall is the name of their church.

 

[BarneyFife]

Elohim said, "Let us make man in our image." Father, Son, Holy Spirt.
Yeshua always called Himself, "the son of man." See books of Daniel, 1 Enoch.

Elohim is often defined as meaning "the plural one."

It is amusing to watch Jewish scholars try to explain this away a 'la:
"Frequently the word Elohim (the Hebrew word for God) is used to assert that God is plural. Naturally, this occurs because the word Elohim is plural in form. In Hebrew the "-im" ending indicates a plural like the "-s" ending in English. However, language is a tricky thing."

 

[NayborBear]

Wait all you like. It's complicated and I don't tutor on command.

Yeah! I get where yer coming from.
Cuz I ain't "dazzled" with your brilliance!
And I'm fresh outta patience for B.S.! :)
Yet? The resonating sound of crickets bespeaks volumes on your behalf!
Yanno, you really gotta be careful when "weeding yer garden."
Cuz, them tares? They can hit ya so hard and relentlessly?
They quite literally will make yer head spin!
Here! Try this!:
Matthew 9:38
Pray ye therefore the Lord of the harvest, that he will send forth labourers into his harvest.
The Bible is so magical? That a wisdom can be true inwardly AND outwardly at the same time?

 

[BarneyFife]

I do not believe that a correct understanding of this matter is necessarily essential to salvation. However, it could be said that a gross misunderstanding or perversion of it could become problematic for the believer.