This is why most believe that Jesus is a Man/Son and not God.

[Johann]

I did not watch the video.
I simply gave my own view of the looming question...IS Jesus A HUMAN, or IS Jesus God revealed to the eyes of men, in the LIKENESS AS A Human man?

I believe Scripture expressly teaches TRULY Jesus IS God revealed in the LIKENESS AS A human man.
(I believe MEN FALSELY teach Jesus IS a human man.)

Thank you Taken
Looking forward for more posts like this, biblically correct.
And apologize for our little misunderstanding on another post.
It is posts like these that really helps me appreciate my Lord more and more.
Yours in Christ
J.

 

[Taken]

Thank you Taken
Looking forward for more posts like this, biblically correct.
And apologize for our little misunderstanding on another post.
It is posts like these that really helps me appreciate my Lord more and more.
Yours in Christ
J.

U R Welcome. :)
No apology necessary. All is well.
Being on the same page is not known by mere “introductions”..
Time, speech exchange, reveals the heart of the matter.

Holy, holy, holy is our Great Lord God Almighty,
All things, by, through, of Him.

Taken

 

[Robert Gwin]

Correct, So "Jesus' OWN Words" Are NOT part of

"EVERY Word 'Out Of The MOUTH' Of God"?:​

"Then was Jesus Led up of The Spirit into the wilderness to be
tempted of the devil. And when He had fasted forty days and
forty nights, He was afterward an hungred.

And when the tempter came to Him, he said, If Thou be The
Son of God, command that these stones be made bread. But He
Answered and Said, It Is Written, Man shall not live by bread alone,
but by Every Word That Proceedeth Out Of The Mouth Of God.

Then the devil taketh Him up into the holy city, and setteth Him
on a pinnacle of the temple, And saith unto Him, If Thou be The
Son of God, cast Thyself down: for It Is Written, He shall give His
angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear
Thee up, lest at any time Thou dash Thy Foot against a stone.

Jesus Said Unto him, It Is Written Again, thou

shalt not tempt The Lord thy God.
​

Again, the devil taketh Him up into an exceeding high mountain,
and sheweth Him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of
them; And saith unto Him, All these things will I give Thee, if
Thou wilt fall down and worship me.

Then Saith Jesus Unto him, Get thee hence,
Satan: for It Is Written, Thou shalt worship
​

The Lord thy God, and Him only shalt thou serve."​

(Mat 4:1-10)​

1) who was the tempter?
2) Who did he tempt?

3) Who Was the tempter NOT supposed to tempt?
4) Who Only Was the tempter supposed to worship and serve?

5) Who Are you supposed to worship and serve?
6) IF "JESUS Is NOT God," then "HIS Words Are NOT From The Mouth Of God,"

and thus, are NOT to "be LIVED By"? Safely Ignored?? NOT believed???​

7) HOW, Exactly is that "serving God and God Alone"????

8) IF "JESUS is NOT God," then WHY did The Father Say for "ALL the angels

Of God To WORSHIP JESUS, When He Was Born, As A Man" (Heb 1:6)?
​

9) IF "JESUS is NOT God," Then Does That not make The Father a "Liar"

Calling HIM (The SON) "God," In Heb 1:8?? see also post 1641...​

10) IF "JESUS is NOT God," Then should we also Disregard

HIS Very Words To John in Rev 1:8-18??? see also post #13​

11) IF "JESUS is NOT God," Then, WHO, pray tell, is "The God Sitting

On The Great White Throne" (Rev 20:12), Since "The Father Hath
Committed ALL JUDGMENT To The SON!" (John_5:22-23)????
see The Judgments To Come!​

12) Are not ALL OF JESUS' Word's Scripturally Confirmed In:
500 Plain And Clear Passages The LORD JESUS CHRIST Is Almighty God!?

Precious friends, praying for you, one and all:

@Rich R, @face2face, @Robert Gwin, @Aunty Jane, @keithr, @XFire, @APAK,
@Wrangler, @Cristo Rei, @Saint of God, @Episkopos, @JohnPaul, @Keiw,
@stephen64, @anyOthers?:

q: Should we really "stand Before God," At The JUDGMENT of UNbelievers, in 11),
or should we not "come to The LORD God, JESUS CHRIST," for HIS:

GRACE And Peace... Amen.

Best to obey Jesus and worship his God maam. Mat 4:10 There are absolutely no scriptures that indicate Jesus is God. True some versions like the Bible you quoted try to promote that, but the alterations are easy to see in this age of information we live in today Dan 12:4

 

[Johann]

Context...
What DID God “give” His Son?
Something the Son “THAT was NOT the Sons”? No.
OR
Something the Son “DID NOT BRING WITH HIM when He came to Earth”? YES!

The Son, came to earth....humbled, WITHOUT HIS REPUTATION.
The Son, came to earth....in the LIKENESS as an Earthly man....
....revealed from the woman of a woman, had a mommy and daddy, was a cry baby, needed tending, fed, clothed, grew, increased in wisdom....learning from observing, participating, the same as his “mommy and daddy”....
His “daddy a builder, carpenter”.
His “mommy care taker”.
His “parents showing, teaching, observing Godly preaching, festivals, Jewish customs, times, Passover, etc.”.

WHAT “reputation” did Jesus NOT bring to Earth WITH HIM?
His “POWER”.

Was JESUS’ POWER, any less, NOT HIS, because HE CAME to earth, as a babe, without His POWER? No.

Same as IF you leave your KEYS at your daddy’s house, and go to a Park, YOUR KEYS are still YOURS. Your daddy sending “your Keys” to you, Did not make “YOUR KEYS” not yours.

Jesus CAME to Earth, without His Reputation.
Phil 2:
[7] But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

God REVEALED Jesus’ Reputation. Visually. Verbally.

Heb 5:
[5] So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee.

Matt 16:
[16] And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.

AFTER Jesus ACCOMPLISHED ON Earth, what He was SENT to do....JESUS RETURNED to HEAVEN, WITH His Reputation.

John 19:
[28] After this, Jesus knowing that all things were now accomplished, that the scripture might be fulfilled, saith, I thirst.

John 17:
[4] I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.
[5] And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.



God didn’t GIVE His Son His Glory;
God revealed, He whom God Called His Son, IS Gods Glory.

So how do you feel about God giving His Son glory? 1 Peter 1:21 you realise this is not the context of Isaiah 42 which is speaking to Yahweh being a Jealous God?

You have miss-quoted.

Easy to do without looking at the context.

The one here miss-quoting is you

Gave glory to him (doxan autōi donta). Second aorist active participle of didōmi agreeing also with theon. See Peter’s speech in Act_3:13 about God glorifying (edoxasen) Jesus and also the same idea by Peter in Act_2:33-36; Act_5:31.
Robertson

Act 3:13 The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go.
Act 3:14 But ye denied the Holy One and the Just, and desired a murderer to be granted unto you;
Act 3:15 And killed the Prince of life, whom God hath raised from the dead; whereof we are witnesses.
Act 3:16 And his name through faith in his name hath made this man strong, whom ye see and know: yea, the faith which is by him hath given him this perfect soundness in the presence of you all.


Heb 2:8 Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him.
Heb 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
Heb 2:10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.
Heb 2:11 For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,


Joh 7:38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
Joh 7:39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

@Taken have answered you well.
Christ is not a mere "emanation" from the Father and secondly, you should find out what a 2ndAorist is.

J.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Yours for not being logical.
No one can be both the Son and father of himself that's just stupid

And donkeys can’t talk, that’s just stupid. It’s illogical.

And it’s physically impossible for God to cause a virgin to give birth. That’s just stupid. I mean…men can now do that, through artificial insemination and test tubes, but God could never do it. It’s illogical.

And no one can raise someone from the dead. That’s just stupid. It’s illogical.

 

[Johann]

You mean according to your creeds which you have many. I have shown you what is good and the Scripture is overwhelmingly true that the Christ is not God.

You are in the camp of Shabir Ally and his Quran.
J.

 

[Johann]

And donkeys can’t talk, that’s just stupid. It’s illogical.

And it’s physically impossible for God to cause a virgin to give birth. That’s just stupid. I mean…men can now do that, through artificial insemination and test tubes, but God could never do it. It’s illogical.

And no one can raise someone from the dead. That’s just stupid. It’s illogical.

You "sound" angry, irritated, don't be.
J.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

You "sound" angry, irritated, don't be.
J.

im not angry…I was drawing it out to its conclusion.

 

[face2face]

The one here miss-quoting is you

Gave glory to him (doxan autōi donta). Second aorist active participle of didōmi agreeing also with theon. See Peter’s speech in Act_3:13 about God glorifying (edoxasen) Jesus and also the same idea by Peter in Act_2:33-36; Act_5:31.
Robertson

Act 3:13 The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go.
Act 3:14 But ye denied the Holy One and the Just, and desired a murderer to be granted unto you;
Act 3:15 And killed the Prince of life, whom God hath raised from the dead; whereof we are witnesses.
Act 3:16 And his name through faith in his name hath made this man strong, whom ye see and know: yea, the faith which is by him hath given him this perfect soundness in the presence of you all.


Heb 2:8 Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him.
Heb 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
Heb 2:10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.
Heb 2:11 For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,


Joh 7:38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
Joh 7:39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

@Taken have answered you well.
Christ is not a mere "emanation" from the Father and secondly, you should find out what a 2ndAorist is.

J.

No problem with the above... God glorifying His Son, but that has nothing to do with miss quoting Isaiah 42:8! Don't you know of the promised Christ? "Isaiah said these things because the saw his glory and spoke of him?"

Just to be clear, do you believe God doesn't share His Glory with his beloved Son? If so, you guys are way off the mark! Fools in fact.

That's the point Paul is making in Hebrews 1

3 He (Christ) is the radiance of the glory of God and the exact imprint of his character, and he upholds the universe by the word of his power.

Do you guys think Christ can be separated from the the Glory of God? God manifested His Glory through the Son and made him a light bearer, something he was not prior to his death.

This is what the Christ became!

Thus he became so far better than the angels as he has inherited a name superior to theirs.

I think your error is your misinterpretation of Isaiah 42:8 where Isaiah is speaking about God not sharing His glory with other gods i.e false gods (that's the correct context). God wont share the praise due to him with other false gods!!!! Isaiah 42:8 cmp Isaiah 48:11.

I agree, God is the source of all Glory, and invites whomever he wills to share in His Glory, but for you both to deny Christ entered into his Fathers Glory, the same Glory the saints will also enter into is a strange teaching indeed.

Read John 17 boy Jesus is speaking about this shared Glory which His Father had prepared for him because of his obedience.

1 Corinthians 2:8

 

[Johann]

You are in the camp of Shabir Ally and his Quran.
J.

To the eternal glory of Christ
2Th_2:14; 1Pe_5:10

 

[face2face]

You are in the camp of Shabir Ally and his Quran.
J.

You know you regularly quote doctrines formulated in the councils of men, surely you do?

 

[face2face]

To the eternal glory of Christ
2Th_2:14; 1Pe_5:10

2 Th 2:14 through our gospel, so that you may possess the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Good quote!

 

[Johann]

No problem with the above... God glorifying His Son, but that has nothing to do with miss quoting Isaiah 42:8! Don't you know of the promised Christ? "Isaiah said these things because the saw his glory and spoke of him?"

Just to be clear, do you believe God doesn't share His Glory with his beloved Son? If so, you guys are way off the mark! Fools in fact.

That's the point Paul is making in Hebrews 1

3 He (Christ) is the radiance of the glory of God and the exact imprint of his character, and he upholds the universe by the word of his power.

Do you guys think Christ can be separated from the the Glory of God? God manifested His Glory through the Son and made him a light bearer, something he was not prior to his death.

This is what the Christ became!

Thus he became so far better than the angels as he has inherited a name superior to theirs.

I think your error is in misinterpretation of Isaiah 42:8 where Isaiah is speaking about God not sharing His glory with other gods i.e false gods (that's the correct context). God wont share the praise due to him with other false gods!!!! Isaiah 42:8 cmp Isaiah 48:11.

I agree, God is the source of all Glory, and invites whomever he wills to share in His Glory, but for you both to deny Christ entered into his Fathers Glory, the same Glory the saints will also enter into is a strange teaching indeed.

Read John 17 boy Jesus is speaking about this shared Glory which His Father had prepared for him because of his obedience.

1 Corinthians 2:8

To the eternal glory of Christ
2Th_2:14; 1Pe_5:10


2Th 2:14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Here you made a big mistake of which Taken corrected you, but you are not here for correction, but to impose...

1Pe 5:10 But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you.
1Pe 5:11 To him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

2Ti 2:10 Therefore R14I endure everything for the sake of the elect, that they also may obtain R15the salvation that is in Christ Jesus with R16eternal glory.


Divinity of:
As Jehovah:
General references
Isa_40:3; Mat_3:3
Jehovah of glory
Psa_24:7; Psa_24:10; 1Co_2:8; Jas_2:1


Jehovah, for whose glory all things were created
Pro_16:4; Col_1:16


Brightness of the Father's Glory
Heb_1:3


Glory of Israel
Luk_2:32


King of Glory
Psa_24:7-10


Lord of Glory
Jas_2:1


Prophecies concerning the future glory and power of
General references
Mar_14:62; 1Pe_3:22; Jud_1:14-15; Rev_1:5-7; Rev_1:18; Rev_2:23; Rev_3:7; Rev_3:14; Rev_3:21; Isa_22:22; Rev_5:5; Rev_5:12; Rev_6:16-17; Rev_7:9-17; Rev_11:15; Rev_12:10; Rev_14:14; Rev_17:14; Rev_19:11-12; Rev_19:15-16; Rev_20:4; Rev_20:6

#Suggest you look up the scripture references

 

[face2face]

To the eternal glory of Christ
2Th_2:14; 1Pe_5:10


2Th 2:14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Here you made a big mistake of which Taken corrected you, but you are not here for correction, but to impose...

1Pe 5:10 But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you.
1Pe 5:11 To him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

2Ti 2:10 Therefore R14I endure everything for the sake of the elect, that they also may obtain R15the salvation that is in Christ Jesus with R16eternal glory.


Divinity of:
As Jehovah:
General references
Isa_40:3; Mat_3:3
Jehovah of glory
Psa_24:7; Psa_24:10; 1Co_2:8; Jas_2:1


Jehovah, for whose glory all things were created
Pro_16:4; Col_1:16


Brightness of the Father's Glory
Heb_1:3


Glory of Israel
Luk_2:32


King of Glory
Psa_24:7-10


Lord of Glory
Jas_2:1


Prophecies concerning the future glory and power of
General references
Mar_14:62; 1Pe_3:22; Jud_1:14-15; Rev_1:5-7; Rev_1:18; Rev_2:23; Rev_3:7; Rev_3:14; Rev_3:21; Isa_22:22; Rev_5:5; Rev_5:12; Rev_6:16-17; Rev_7:9-17; Rev_11:15; Rev_12:10; Rev_14:14; Rev_17:14; Rev_19:11-12; Rev_19:15-16; Rev_20:4; Rev_20:6

#Suggest you look up the scripture references

You both miss quoted Isaiah 42:8 just waiting for you to acknowledge the correct context. It's not difficult I even gave you a cross reference in Isaiah 48:11.

 

[Johann]

Good quote!

To the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ - That you may partake of the same glory as the Saviour in heaven; Joh_17:22, Joh_17:24. Joh_17:2.4.

Joh 17:24 Father, I desire that they also, whom you have given me, may be R5with me R6where I am, R7to see my glory that you have given me because you loved me R8before the foundation of the world....

...my glory] Literally, the glory which is Mine, a stronger expression than that in Joh_17:22 : see on Joh_14:27.



which thou hast given me] Not the glory of the Word, the Eternal Son, which was His in His equality with the Father, but the glory of Christ, the Incarnate Son, with which the risen and ascended Jesus was endowed. In sure confidence Christ speaks of this as already given, and wills that all believers may behold and share it. Thus two gifts of the Father to the Son meet and complete one another: those whom He has given behold the glory that He has given.
for] Better, because.
the foundation of the world] Our Lord thrice uses this expression, here, Luk_11:50, and Mat_25:34. Two of those who heard it reproduce it (1Pe_1:20; Rev_13:8; Rev_17:8): comp. Eph_1:4; Heb_4:3; Heb_9:26; Heb_11:11.


Having prayed for them with a view to their unity, He states what He Himself has done for them with the same end in view.
gavest] Better, hast given (see on Joh_17:4). The meaning of this gift of ‘glory’ seems evident from Joh_17:24; the glory of the ascended and glorified Christ in which believers are ‘joint-heirs’ with Him (see on Rom_8:17). Looking forward with confidence to the issue of the conflict, Christ speaks of this glory as already given back to him (Joh_17:5) and shared with His followers. Comp. Joh_16:33.


And the glory (kagō tēn doxan). Literally, “And I the glory,” with emphasis on “I.”

It is the glory of the Incarnate Word (Bernard), cf. Joh_1:14; Joh_2:11, not the glory of the Eternal Word mentioned in Joh_17:24. Bengel says: Quanta majestas Christianorum! Then Joh_17:22 repeats the unity prayed for in Joh_17:21.

J.

 

[Johann]

You both miss quoted Isaiah 42:8 just waiting for you to acknowledge the correct context. It's not difficult I even gave you a cross reference in Isaiah 48:11.

No need to coerce me...


I am the Lord, that is my name,.... Jehovah, a name expressive of his self-existence, eternity, and immutability; a name by which be made himself known to Israel of old, and which is peculiar to him, and does not belong to another, and so distinguishes him from all false gods; see Exo_3:14 or, "Hu is my name" (p); to which αυτος, "he himself the same", answers; see Psa_102:27, compared with Heb_13:8 and this is one of the names of God with the Jews (q); as Hou is with the Turks to this day; which, in Arabic, signifies "him": that is, God, as Monsieur Thevenot (r) observes; see Isa_48:12,
and my glory will I not give to another; that is, to another god, to a strange god, to an idol; as that has not the nature, it ought not to have the name of deity, nor divine worship given to it: this the Lord will not admit of, but will punish those, be they Heathens, or are called Christians, that give the glory to idols that is due unto his name. This is not to be understood to the exclusion of the Son and Spirit, who are with the Father the one Jehovah, and share in the same glory; the Son is the brightness of his Father's glory, and the Spirit is the Spirit of glory, Heb_1:3 nor will he suffer the glory of the justification, salvation, and conversion of men, to be given to their works, will, and power, which is entirely due to his own grace, to the blood and righteousness of his Son, and to the energy of the divine Spirit:
neither my praise to graven images; which serves to explain the former clause, what is meant by his "glory", and who by "another", to whom he will not give it. Papists should observe this, for it respects not merely or only the graven images of the Heathens, but chiefly those among them that bear the Christian name; for this relates to New Testament times. The Targum is,
"and my glory, in which I am revealed to you, I will not give to another people; nor my praise to worshippers of images.''
(p) הוא שמי (q) Seder Tephillot. fol. 1. 2. & 4, 1. Ed. Basil. (r) Travels. part 1. B. 1. c. 31. p. 41.
Gill

The one out of context is you, not me.
J.

 

[Johann]

You know you regularly quote doctrines formulated in the councils of men, surely you do?

Just as the Jews have their commentaries, the Muslims theirs, so I use commentaries to keep me focused in not spreading false doctrines by quoting a solitary verse here and there to substantiate YOUR doctrine.
Through the years I know what a good commentary is always aware of the Calvinist viewpoint and the Arminian, and various heteros viewpoints worldwide.
Can two walk together lest they agree?
I think not.
J.

 

[Johann]

I agree, God is the source of all Glory, and invites whomever he wills to share in His Glory, but for you both to deny Christ entered into his Fathers Glory, the same Glory the saints will also enter into is a strange teaching indeed.

...which is also Christ's glory, never forget that.
J.

Read John 17 boy Jesus is speaking about this shared Glory which His Father had prepared for him because of his obedience.

I already gave you the explanation, hopefully the eyes of your understanding being opened and receptive.
J.

 

[face2face]

Just as the Jews have their commentaries, the Muslims theirs, so I use commentaries to keep me focused in not spreading false doctrines by quoting a solitary verse here and there to substantiate YOUR doctrine.
Through the years I know what a good commentary is always aware of the Calvinist viewpoint and the Arminian, and various heteros viewpoints worldwide.
Can two walk together lest they agree?
I think not.
J.

It reveals you are yet to search the Scriptures for yourself so the error others perpetuate you will do likewise. It's in the spirit of 2 Timothy 3:7

 

[face2face]

...which is also Christ's glory, never forget that.
J.

His promised inheritance for being the firstborn from the dead.