This is why most believe that Jesus is a Man/Son and not God.

[Johann]

You only need the many scriptures that show Jesus is God.

And that is exactly what I am doing, to the glory of the Father through/dia Christ Jesus, sealed with the Holy Spirit.
J.

 

[Johann]

You don’t have to google it. You can go pick up your exhaustive concordance and do it that way. Not as fast of a way and much more page flipping, but you can look it up that way too. It’s also easier for old eyes like mine, since the print in my concordance is so small.

How about a good study bible? There are large print from what I have seen SBG.
J.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

How about a good study bible? There are large print from what I have seen SBG.
J.

wow…I can barely lift the exhaustive concordance I have with my arthritis. How heavy would a large print one be? Yikes!

Edit: oh I see you’re talking about a large print Bible. I have a few of those. I was talking about the giant tome called Strongs Exhaustive Concordance.

 

[Johann]

Edit: oh I see you’re talking about a large print Bible. I have a few of those. I was talking about the giant tome called Strongs Exhaustive Concordance.

Yup, good ol' tombs, but even I strain to see the small letters in my bible so I can sympathize with you.
Yesterday I was blessed with a Children's Ministry Resource Bible but the print size is getting smaller and smaller for folks like us.
J.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Yup, good ol' tombs, but even I strain to see the small letters in my bible so I can sympathize with you.
Yesterday I was blessed with a Children's Ministry Resource Bible but the print size is getting smaller and smaller for folks like us.
J.

So I say, while the internet is there, I will thankfully use it to good purpose!

 

[Johann]

So I say, while the internet is there, I will thankfully use it to good purpose!

No problem with that since I use it sometimes for God's glory.
Stay strong in Christ, He is at the door.
J.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

How about a good study bible? There are large print from what I have seen SBG.
J.

It’s still a Bible study whether you look up a list of the verses in a physical concordance or online. You then open your Bible to read them in the passages and focus on all verses about the Holy Spirit.

 

[Johann]

It’s still a Bible study whether you look up a list of the verses in a physical concordance or online. You then open your Bible to read them in the passages and focus on all verses about the Holy Spirit.

I know what you mean, just pulling your leg.
J.

 

[Johann]

I know what you mean, just pulling your leg.
J.

Another good Concordance is the Englishman's Concordance.
J.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

When I was in Mexico years ago, a man told me a folk story of the Mayans in which, in the future, a giant spider web would cover all the earth. I think my eyes must have gotten big as saucers! A giant web DOES cover all the earth now. A worldwide web…a lot of people become trapped in it in bad ways.

 

[Johann]

When I was in Mexico years ago, a man told me a folk story of the Mayans in which, in the future, a giant spider web would cover all the earth. I think my eyes must have gotten big as saucers! A giant web DOES cover all the earth now. A worldwide web…

Just don't get sucked in
J.

 

[GRACE ambassador]

If you can't even believe Jesus' own words then you have no anchor for truth.

Correct, So "Jesus' OWN Words" Are NOT part of

"EVERY Word 'Out Of The MOUTH' Of God"?:​

"Then was Jesus Led up of The Spirit into the wilderness to be
tempted of the devil. And when He had fasted forty days and
forty nights, He was afterward an hungred.

And when the tempter came to Him, he said, If Thou be The
Son of God, command that these stones be made bread. But He
Answered and Said, It Is Written, Man shall not live by bread alone,
but by Every Word That Proceedeth Out Of The Mouth Of God.

Then the devil taketh Him up into the holy city, and setteth Him
on a pinnacle of the temple, And saith unto Him, If Thou be The
Son of God, cast Thyself down: for It Is Written, He shall give His
angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear
Thee up, lest at any time Thou dash Thy Foot against a stone.

Jesus Said Unto him, It Is Written Again, thou

shalt not tempt The Lord thy God.
​

Again, the devil taketh Him up into an exceeding high mountain,
and sheweth Him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of
them; And saith unto Him, All these things will I give Thee, if
Thou wilt fall down and worship me.

Then Saith Jesus Unto him, Get thee hence,
Satan: for It Is Written, Thou shalt worship
​

The Lord thy God, and Him only shalt thou serve."
​

(Mat 4:1-10)
​

1) who was the tempter?
2) Who did he tempt?

3) Who Was the tempter NOT supposed to tempt?
4) Who Only Was the tempter supposed to worship and serve?

5) Who Are you supposed to worship and serve?
6) IF "JESUS Is NOT God," then "HIS Words Are NOT From The Mouth Of God,"

and thus, are NOT to "be LIVED By"? Safely Ignored?? NOT believed???​

7) HOW, Exactly is that "serving God and God Alone"????

8) IF "JESUS is NOT God," then WHY did The Father Say for "ALL the angels

Of God To WORSHIP JESUS, When He Was Born, As A Man" (Heb 1:6)?
​

9) IF "JESUS is NOT God," Then Does That not make The Father a "Liar"

Calling HIM (The SON) "God," In Heb 1:8?? see also post 1641...​

10) IF "JESUS is NOT God," Then should we also Disregard

HIS Very Words To John in Rev 1:8-18??? see also post #13​

11) IF "JESUS is NOT God," Then, WHO, pray tell, is "The God Sitting

On The Great White Throne" (Rev 20:12), Since "The Father Hath
Committed ALL JUDGMENT To The SON!" (John_5:22-23)????
see The Judgments To Come!​

12) Are not ALL OF JESUS' Word's Scripturally Confirmed In:
500 Plain And Clear Passages The LORD JESUS CHRIST Is Almighty God!?

Precious friends, praying for you, one and all:

@Rich R, @face2face, @Robert Gwin, @Aunty Jane, @keithr, @XFire, @APAK,
@Wrangler, @Cristo Rei, @Saint of God, @Episkopos, @JohnPaul, @Keiw,
@stephen64, @anyOthers?:

q: Should we really "stand Before God," At The JUDGMENT of UNbelievers, in 11),
or should we not "come to The LORD God, JESUS CHRIST," for HIS:

GRACE And Peace... Amen.

 

[XFire]

No. 2



Where in Luke 1:35 are we told Messiah is a GodMan? or that he will be made fully man and fully God? Again, your faith is in the cunning logic of philosophers. In nature what does the Scripture say about the Christ?

Answer: Made in the seed of David after the flesh and experienced all its propensities to sin but resisted unto death. Read Hebrews 2; Romans 8 etc.

The godman as you put it in Matthew 19.17 says only God is good. So Jesus doesn't say that he was good.

Even tertillion states that Jesus is/was subordinate to God. Johann why are you making God in your image.

Why can't Jesus sit in honor with his father. Jesus is our savior. And no one was beside him. But again he states that he has a maker. Isa 45. 11.
Why do you accept man word above my Lords.

 

[Johann]

The godman as you put it in Matthew 19.17 says only God is good. So Jesus doesn't say that he was good.

Even tertillion states that Jesus is/was subordinate to God. Johann why are you making God in your image.

Why can't Jesus sit in honor with his father. Jesus is our savior. And no one was beside him. But again he states that he has a maker. Isa 45. 11.
Why do you accept man word above my Lords.

All things - The universe. The expression cannot be limited to any part of the universe. It appropriately expresses everything which exists - all the vast masses of material worlds, and all the animals and things, great or small, that compose those worlds. See Rev_4:11; Heb_1:2; Col_1:16.

Rev 4:11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

Heb 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

Were made - The original word is from the verb “to be,” and signifies “were” by him; but it expresses the idea of creation here. It does not alter the sense whether it is said “‘were’ by him,” or “were ‘created’ by him.” The word is often used in the sense of “creating,” or forming from nothing. See Jas_3:9; and Gen_2:4; Isa_48:7; in the Septuagint.
By him - In this place it is affirmed that “creation” was effected by “the Word,” or the Son of God.

In Gen_1:1, it is said that the Being who created the heavens and the earth was God. In Psa_102:25-28, this work is ascribed to Yahweh.

The “Word,” or the Son of God, is therefore appropriately called “God.” The work of “creation” is uniformly ascribed in the Scriptures to the Second Person of the Trinity. See Col_1:16; Heb_1:2, Heb_1:10.
Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
Col 1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.


By this is meant, evidently, that he was the agent, or the efficient cause, by which the universe was made. There is no higher proof of omnipotence than the work of creation; and, hence, God often appeals to that work to prove that he is the true God, in opposition to idols.

See Isa_40:18-28; Jer_10:3-16; Psa_24:2; Psa_39:11; Pro_3:19. It is absurd to say that God can invest a creature (Jesus) with omnipotence. If He can make a creature omnipotent, He can make him omniscient, and can in the same way make him omnipresent, and infinitely wise and good; that is, He can invest a creature with all His own attributes, or make another being like Himself, or, which is the same thing, there could be two Gods, or as many Gods as He should choose to make.

But this is absurd! The Being, therefore, that “created” all things must be divine; and, since this work is ascribed to Jesus Christ, and as it is uniformly in the Scriptures declared to be the work of God, Jesus Christ is therefore equal with the Father.
Without him - Without his agency; his notice; the exertion of his power. Compare Mat_10:29. This is a strong way of speaking, designed to confirm, beyond the possibility of doubt, what he had just said. He says, therefore, in general, that all things were made by Christ. In this part of the verse he shuts out all doubt, and affirms that there was “no exception;” that there was not a single thing, however minute or unimportant, which was not made by him. In this way, he confirms what he said in the first verse. Christ was not merely called God, but he did the works of God, and therefore the name is used in its proper sense as implying supreme divinity. To this same test Jesus himself appealed as proving that he was divine. Joh_10:37, “if I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.” Joh_5:17, “my Father worketh hitherto, and I work.”
Barnes notes.
J.

 

[XFire]

Here we go again johann. all KJV john 1.1 has 3 parts with Jesus being the Word.

In the beginning was the Word --- rev 3.14 last phrase "the beginning of the creation of God" so I agree with John 1.1
Part 2 and the Word was with God
Yes I agree. Jesus was with God.
Part 3 and the Word was God.
Yes as the heir Jesus obtained that at the Resurrection. Matt 28.18 , John 20.28 and many more

So I don't have a problem with saying Jesus is God. And I don't have a problem with God saying that about me. John 10.33-36.

And I do believe in the trinity doctrine of John 14.20.
Again. Let's please stop limiting God.
Christian. Think bigger. Go out and move your mountain today

 

[Johann]

Here we go again johann. all KJV john 1.1 has 3 parts with Jesus being the Word.

In the beginning was the Word --- rev 3.14 last phrase "the beginning of the creation of God" so I agree with John 1.1
Part 2 and the Word was with God
Yes I agree. Jesus was with God.
Part 3 and the Word was God.
Yes as the heir Jesus obtained that at the Resurrection. Matt 28.18 , John 20.28 and many more

So I don't have a problem with saying Jesus is God. And I don't have a problem with God saying that about me. John 10.33-36.

And I do believe in the trinity doctrine of John 14.20.
Again. Let's please stop limiting God.
Christian. Think bigger. Go out and move your mountain today

Not me limiting God, many here do.
J.

 

[face2face]

The godman as you put it in Matthew 19.17 says only God is good. So Jesus doesn't say that he was good.

Even tertillion states that Jesus is/was subordinate to God. Johann why are you making God in your image.

Why can't Jesus sit in honor with his father. Jesus is our savior. And no one was beside him. But again he states that he has a maker. Isa 45. 11.
Why do you accept man word above my Lords.

Our discussions last night with Johann came close to him opening a door, though one he is not willing to walk through yet.

John 2:23-25 is carefully written to show that the Christ had a carnal mind, latent in him, demonstrated in his words "not my will but thine be done". He knew what was in man because it was in him and how sins flesh pained him in heart until His Father crucified it. Luke 12:50; Romans 8:1-3.

It will be a fine day when all the Christians of the earth know their true Messiah and what a shock it will be to them when he is revealed as it will be for his people. Zechariah 12:10

 

[face2face]

All things - The universe. The expression cannot be limited to any part of the universe. It appropriately expresses everything which exists - all the vast masses of material worlds, and all the animals and things, great or small, that compose those worlds. See Rev_4:11; Heb_1:2; Col_1:16.

Rev 4:11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

Heb 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

Were made - The original word is from the verb “to be,” and signifies “were” by him; but it expresses the idea of creation here. It does not alter the sense whether it is said “‘were’ by him,” or “were ‘created’ by him.” The word is often used in the sense of “creating,” or forming from nothing. See Jas_3:9; and Gen_2:4; Isa_48:7; in the Septuagint.
By him - In this place it is affirmed that “creation” was effected by “the Word,” or the Son of God.

In Gen_1:1, it is said that the Being who created the heavens and the earth was God. In Psa_102:25-28, this work is ascribed to Yahweh.

The “Word,” or the Son of God, is therefore appropriately called “God.” The work of “creation” is uniformly ascribed in the Scriptures to the Second Person of the Trinity. See Col_1:16; Heb_1:2, Heb_1:10.
Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
Col 1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.


By this is meant, evidently, that he was the agent, or the efficient cause, by which the universe was made. There is no higher proof of omnipotence than the work of creation; and, hence, God often appeals to that work to prove that he is the true God, in opposition to idols.

See Isa_40:18-28; Jer_10:3-16; Psa_24:2; Psa_39:11; Pro_3:19. It is absurd to say that God can invest a creature (Jesus) with omnipotence. If He can make a creature omnipotent, He can make him omniscient, and can in the same way make him omnipresent, and infinitely wise and good; that is, He can invest a creature with all His own attributes, or make another being like Himself, or, which is the same thing, there could be two Gods, or as many Gods as He should choose to make.

But this is absurd! The Being, therefore, that “created” all things must be divine; and, since this work is ascribed to Jesus Christ, and as it is uniformly in the Scriptures declared to be the work of God, Jesus Christ is therefore equal with the Father.
Without him - Without his agency; his notice; the exertion of his power. Compare Mat_10:29. This is a strong way of speaking, designed to confirm, beyond the possibility of doubt, what he had just said. He says, therefore, in general, that all things were made by Christ. In this part of the verse he shuts out all doubt, and affirms that there was “no exception;” that there was not a single thing, however minute or unimportant, which was not made by him. In this way, he confirms what he said in the first verse. Christ was not merely called God, but he did the works of God, and therefore the name is used in its proper sense as implying supreme divinity. To this same test Jesus himself appealed as proving that he was divine. Joh_10:37, “if I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.” Joh_5:17, “my Father worketh hitherto, and I work.”
Barnes notes.
J.

I see you are groping in the dark Johann trying to make sense of what He has achieved in the Son. Hebrews 5:9 shows the process of making the Son perfect was through suffering. You cannot relate these matters to God, because He is always perfect Matthew 5:48.

The absurdities you grapple with can all be harmonised if you remove the man-made theology and read the text anew with a searching heart.

In a moment, you would see how a loving Father raise up a Son in the line of Adam to reconcile the world to Himself, and that through Christ all things that were made have the Christ in Mind. That He would make the Christ through suffering the very Word...that same Word that created all things - living and manifestly God in person, a reflection of the Father, but not the very substance in nature, until his resurrection and exaltation and glorification.

Not a Godman but the Son of Man who became the Son of God who by the rending of his flesh passed through the curtain and sat down at the right hand of the Father on high.

Unfortunately, his own people knew him not, Matthew 17:12 and sadly when he comes, Christianity will know him not.

Not a God.

“I Jesus will proclaim your name (Abba Father) to my brothers; in the midst of the assembly I will praise you.” “I will be confident in him,” and again, “Here I am, with the children God has given me.” Hebrews 2:9

These will know him!

 

[Dropship]

When the high priest asked Jesus if he was the Son of God, Jesus replied "I am".
So how can some people think he WAS God? Do they think he lied to the HP?

 

[Johann]

I see you are groping in the dark Johann trying to make sense of what He has achieved in the Son. Hebrews 5:9 shows the process of making the Son perfect was through suffering. You cannot relate these matters to God, because He is always perfect Matthew 5:48.

Not groping in the dark. I concur with you on Heb 5.9.