This is why most believe that Jesus is a Man/Son and not God.

[Johann]

If so, you guys are way off the mark! Fools in fact.

Be careful in calling anyone a moron, we are all here to learn, not impose, and our eternal destination is at stake here.
J.

 

[Johann]

His promised inheritance for being the firstborn from the dead.

You don't understand, do you?
J.

 

[face2face]

You don't understand, do you?
J.

I understand perfectly! He became....do you get those words? You cant inherit a name, position, authority or glory, if it was always in your possession. You need to write your own Bible...maybe then you can make it work for you.

 

[face2face]

Be careful in calling anyone a moron, we are all here to learn, not impose, and our eternal destination is at stake here.
J.

It's was foolish to use Isaiah 42:8 and then try to dig in with your misrepresentation of that Scripture. Only a fool would continue to miss quote it after having the correct interpretation clearly shown. That verse has nothing to do with God's Son or the Elect...but idolatry. If that truth can pierce through your frontal lobe we are good to continue.

 

[Johann]

It reveals you are yet to search the Scriptures for yourself so the error others perpetuate you will do likewise. It's in the spirit of 2 Timothy 3:7

I can take this, knowing who I am in Christ Jesus and have an entree to my Father in heaven.
You believe you are in Christ, and I believe I am in Christ, yet here you are quoting scripture, out of context, to another believer when our warfare is not against flesh and blood.
I my case I would advise you, a an phileo manner, not to make assumptions in advance by using the word of the Lord like a hammer to crush.
I have prayerfully gone the extra mile with you, hoping you would see the ditch that you are in.
J.

 

[face2face]

I can take this, knowing who I am in Christ Jesus and have an entree to my Father in heaven.
You believe you are in Christ, and I believe I am in Christ, yet here you are quoting scripture, out of context, to another believer when our warfare is not against flesh and blood.
I my case I would advise you, a an phileo manner, not to make assumptions in advance by using the word of the Lord like a hammer to crush.
I have prayerfully gone the extra mile with you, hoping you would see the ditch that you are in.
J.

I cannot sit back and allow the misrepresentation of God's Word in the gross manner which happens here daily. It's not for your benefit I apply the sharpness of the sword but for those who truly desire the original authentic Gospel untouched by human hands. It's clear for all to see you have no desire in truth only to copy and paste the same error over and over until others are brain washed by its so called mystery. In the past I have shown @Taken many times his error and he withdraws only to come out weeks later copying and pasting the same false teachings. I bet in days or weeks to come he will use Isaiah 42:8 in the same way, not once ever looking at the verse, chapter or context - you both are so predictable. I just wish you would actually read and meditate on the Word before you posted anything! We all would be much richer for it.

 

[Johann]

I understand perfectly! He became....do you get those words? You cant inherit a name, position, authority or glory, if it was always in your possession. You need to write your own Bible...maybe then you can make it work for you.

I think, at this point, we are talking past each other and not with each other since what you have typed here I am in agreement.
No, I don't need to write my own bible, the KJV is perfect, Theonopsis, and if I have a bias, that would be to look up the morphologies of the small propositions, the Definite Articles and conditional clauses and commentaries on the customs and manners of the Jewish nation and Sages, the Oral Torah, Targums and Mishna and the ancient rabbinical writings of rabbis re Y'howshuwa HaMashiach.
I admit, I made a mistake in falling into a ditch in Calvinism for a while but now I see, clearly.
Shalom AleChem
J.

 

[Johann]

I cannot sit back and allow the misrepresentation of God's Word in the gross manner which happens here daily. It's not for your benefit I apply the sharpness of the sword but for those who truly desire the original authentic Gospel untouched by human hands. It's clear for all to see you have no desire in truth only to copy and paste the same error over and over until others are brain washed by its so called mystery. In the past I have shown @Taken many times his error and he withdraws only to come out weeks later copying and pasting the same false teachings. I bet in days or weeks to come he will use Isaiah 42:8 in the same way, not once ever looking at the verse, chapter or context - you both are so predictable. I just wish you would actually read and meditate on the Word before you posted anything! We all would be much richer for it.

The one in error here is you, clearly in the camp with Shabir Ally.
J.

 

[Johann]

im not angry…I was drawing it out to its conclusion.

And what is the conclusion?
J.

 

[face2face]

The one in error here is you, clearly in the camp with Shabir Ally.
J.

Another foolish comment...he doesn't even believe Christ is the Son of God but only a prophet. Wrong again!

 

[Johann]

@Taken many times his error and he withdraws only to come our weeks later copy and pasting the same false teachings. I bet in days or weeks to come he will use Isaiah 42:8 in the same way not once ever looking at the verse, chapter or context - you both are so predictable. I just wish you would actually read and meditate on the Word before you posted it!

Don't make the mistake that @Taken is unbiblical in his exegesis, I might be more prone to make mistakes, I admit.
J.

 

[Johann]

Another foolish comment...he doesn't even believe Christ is the Son of God but only a prophet. Wrong again!

Oh he admits Christ is the Huios of YHVH, just not Elohim.
J.

 

[Johann]

you both are so predictable

Not me, I am unpredictable, you will never know what comes next
J.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

And what is the conclusion?
J.

The conclusion, if you apply what sounds logical to everything EXCEPT the belief that you will live eternally?
The conclusion I come to is - a deal to cheat death that won’t stand.

 

[face2face]

Oh he admits Christ is the Huios of YHVH, just not Elohim.
J.

Well he is closer to truth than you are then.

 

[Taken]

No problem with the above... God glorifying His Son, but that has nothing to do with miss quoting Isaiah 42:8!

No one has misquoted Isa 42:8!

Isa 42:
[8] I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.

Pretty straight forward;
The LORD does NOT give “His Glory to an other”.

Don't you know of the promised Christ?

Don’t you know the Promise of the Messiah was given AND fulfilled?

Just to be clear, do you believe God doesn't share His Glory with his beloved Son? If so, you guys are way off the mark! Fools in fact.

You are preaching God shares His Glory with His Son...
When in fact IF you continued Learning you should have Learned;
Gods Christ IS Gods Glory.

Do you guys think Christ can be separated from the the Glory of God?

You confuse KNOWLEDGE with ABILITY TO SEE the knowledge MANIFESTED.
Christ IS Gods Glory.
Maybe you do not KNOW WHAT IS Gods Glory.
Gods Glory IS His Absolute Above ALL POWER.
God Glory IS Absolute PURE LIGHT.
IF a human man, with his human EYES Looked upon Gods GLORY...
....that human man would INSTANTLY incinerate.

NOTHING NEW...God TEACHES men, bit by bit, little by little, and USES thing human men CAN SEE, and CAN COMPREHEND via Human Experience, to Parallel to God WHICH Human men CAN NOT SEE!

Our parallel to Gods LIGHT, GLORY, POWER....hangs daily in the SKY.
Maybe you have heard of it, or seen it...It’s called the SUN...
It is BRIGHT, it BURNS, eyes and flesh.

God manifested His Glory through the Son and made him a light bearer, something he was not prior to his death.

Gods GLORY IS God.
Gods GLORY IS His.
BY WHAT NAME, TITLE, God calls His GLORY, OR WHEN, IS Gods Discretion.

This is what the Christ became!

Something already EXISTS, BEFORE it can be MADE.
Christ “becoming” MADE, is not Christ being “CREATED”.
Becoming “MADE”, is simply REVEALING “knowledge” that APPLIES to a particular THING.

Thus he became so far better than the angels as he has inherited a name superior to theirs.

Gods GLORY/POWER was ALWAYS superior to “created” angels, who were created WITH power, Greater than man.

I think your error is your misinterpretation of Isaiah 42:8 where Isaiah is speaking about God not sharing His glory with other gods i.e false gods (that's the correct context). God wont share the praise due to him with other false gods!!!! Isaiah 42:8 cmp Isaiah 48:11.

God “GIVES” HIS Glory to NO ONE. You try to limit Gods word to ONLY other gods.
Gods GLORY IS SUPREME...ALL Powerful. “IF” God GAVE HIS ALL SUPREME POWER TO “ANYTHING” ELSE, “ANYONE” ELSE...He would NOT BE “ALL” Powerful....would He?

I agree, God is the source of all Glory, and invites whomever he wills to share in His Glory, but for you both to deny Christ entered into his Fathers Glory, the same Glory the saints will also enter into is a strange teaching indeed.

* You are in essence trying to MAKE and REMAKE God, according to a mans understanding.

The INVISIBLE God IS ALL Powerful, that IS His Glory.
The INVISIBLE God IS SPIRIT, HAS 7 Spirits, derived FROM the SAME ONE SPIRIT who IS God.

* Angels, are created, are spirits, were created to SERVE God.
* ManKIND is created and made, to SERVE God.
* BOTH Angels AND Mankind HAVE FREEWILL, to SERVE God, serve themselves, serve other spirits, serve others things they make their god, or serve other men.

HOW the INVISIBLE God CHOSE to “interact” with His Created and Made MAN-KIND...IS in a specific ORDER and WAY, according to God.
* Mankind HAS the step by step, bit by bit, ORDER and WAY God interacts with Mankind...recorded History, Examples, Consequences, Results.

You MAKING yourself, to become made CALLED...face2face...
NEITHER is you creating or making, a new body, soul or spirit.
It is simply you giving yourself A NAME to be CALLED, on this forum.

God Gave MANKIND a NAME to Call HIS WORD.
God Gave mankind several Titles and Descriptions FOR HIS WORD to be Called.
God Gave mankind A NAME to CALL HIS POWER.
Gods Gave mankind several Descriptions FOR HIS POWER to be Called.

God repeatedly NOTIFIES mankind...the POWER of God “MIGHT” be “WITH” mankind, and the POWER of God “MIGHT” be “IN” mankind.
Gods POWER is not being GIVEN the man...
The Man is benefiting ... BECAUSE God Himself, with HIS Power, is
“WITH or WITH AND WITHIN” the man.

* Not to be naive, God IS His own God and God SERVES HIMSELF!
* God SENT His Word to mankind.
...TO benefit mankind, AND God Himself.
* God SENDS His POWER to be WITH or WITHIN mankind.
...TO benefit mankind, AND God Himself.

Whatever Titles, Descriptions, Names, (or WHEN) GOD Gives His Word, His Power, His Seed, His Spirits....
Does not CHANGE God from what He Always WAS.

Mal 3:
[6a]For I am the LORD, I change not...

God has always been;
His own Spirit
His own Word
His own All Power
His own Glory
The Creator
The Maker
The Life
The Way
The Teacher
The High Priest
The Truth
The Light
The Life Giver
The Life Taker
The Restorer
The Destroyer
The Healer
The Savior
The Quickener
The Father
The Son
The Messiah
The Christ
The Holy Spirit
The Judge

Gods GLORY He gives NOT to an other.
A man ONLY has the REFLECTION of Gods GLORY.
CHRIST IS the NAME of Gods GLORY.

I can NOT understand it FOR YOU.

 

[Taken]

His promised inheritance for being the firstborn from the dead.

Firstborn FROM the Dead?


WHO, is this “HIS”?
WHAT, WHEN, HOW....Did “HIS” death occur?

 

[face2face]

No one has misquoted Isa 42:8!

Isa 42:
[8] I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.

Pretty straight forward;
The LORD does NOT give “His Glory to an other”.



Don’t you know the Promise of the Messiah was given AND fulfilled?



You are preaching God shares His Glory with His Son...
When in fact IF you continued Learning you should have Learned;
Gods Christ IS Gods Glory.



You confuse KNOWLEDGE with ABILITY TO SEE the knowledge MANIFESTED.
Christ IS Gods Glory.
Maybe you do not KNOW WHAT IS Gods Glory.
Gods Glory IS His Absolute Above ALL POWER.
God Glory IS Absolute PURE LIGHT.
IF a human man, with his human EYES Looked upon Gods GLORY...
....that human man would INSTANTLY incinerate.

NOTHING NEW...God TEACHES men, bit by bit, little by little, and USES thing human men CAN SEE, and CAN COMPREHEND via Human Experience, to Parallel to God WHICH Human men CAN NOT SEE!

Our parallel to Gods LIGHT, GLORY, POWER....hangs daily in the SKY.
Maybe you have heard of it, or seen it...It’s called the SUN...
It is BRIGHT, it BURNS, eyes and flesh.



Gods GLORY IS God.
Gods GLORY IS His.
BY WHAT NAME, TITLE, God calls His GLORY, OR WHEN, IS Gods Discretion.



Something already EXISTS, BEFORE it can be MADE.
Christ “becoming” MADE, is not Christ being “CREATED”.
Becoming “MADE”, is simply REVEALING “knowledge” that APPLIES to a particular THING.



Gods GLORY/POWER was ALWAYS superior to “created” angels, who were created WITH power, Greater than man.



God “GIVES” HIS Glory to NO ONE. You try to limit Gods word to ONLY other gods.
Gods GLORY IS SUPREME...ALL Powerful. “IF” God GAVE HIS ALL SUPREME POWER TO “ANYTHING” ELSE, “ANYONE” ELSE...He would NOT BE “ALL” Powerful....would He?



* You are in essence trying to MAKE and REMAKE God, according to a mans understanding.

The INVISIBLE God IS ALL Powerful, that IS His Glory.
The INVISIBLE God IS SPIRIT, HAS 7 Spirits, derived FROM the SAME ONE SPIRIT who IS God.

* Angels, are created, are spirits, were created to SERVE God.
* ManKIND is created and made, to SERVE God.
* BOTH Angels AND Mankind HAVE FREEWILL, to SERVE God, serve themselves, serve other spirits, serve others things they make their god, or serve other men.

HOW the INVISIBLE God CHOSE to “interact” with His Created and Made MAN-KIND...IS in a specific ORDER and WAY, according to God.
* Mankind HAS the step by step, bit by bit, ORDER and WAY God interacts with Mankind...recorded History, Examples, Consequences, Results.

You MAKING yourself, to become made CALLED...face2face...
NEITHER is you creating or making, a new body, soul or spirit.
It is simply you giving yourself A NAME to be CALLED, on this forum.

God Gave MANKIND a NAME to Call HIS WORD.
God Gave mankind several Titles and Descriptions FOR HIS WORD to be Called.
God Gave mankind A NAME to CALL HIS POWER.
Gods Gave mankind several Descriptions FOR HIS POWER to be Called.

God repeatedly NOTIFIES mankind...the POWER of God “MIGHT” be “WITH” mankind, and the POWER of God “MIGHT” be “IN” mankind.
Gods POWER is not being GIVEN the man...
The Man is benefiting ... BECAUSE God Himself, with HIS Power, is
“WITH or WITH AND WITHIN” the man.

* Not to be naive, God IS His own God and God SERVES HIMSELF!
* God SENT His Word to mankind.
...TO benefit mankind, AND God Himself.
* God SENDS His POWER to be WITH or WITHIN mankind.
...TO benefit mankind, AND God Himself.

Whatever Titles, Descriptions, Names, (or WHEN) GOD Gives His Word, His Power, His Seed, His Spirits....
Does not CHANGE God from what He Always WAS.

Mal 3:
[6a]For I am the LORD, I change not...

God has always been;
His own Spirit
His own Word
His own All Power
His own Glory
The Creator
The Maker
The Life
The Way
The Teacher
The High Priest
The Truth
The Light
The Life Giver
The Life Taker
The Restorer
The Destroyer
The Healer
The Savior
The Quickener
The Father
The Son
The Messiah
The Christ
The Holy Spirit
The Judge

Gods GLORY He gives NOT to an other.
A man ONLY has the REFLECTION of Gods GLORY.
CHRIST IS the NAME of Gods GLORY.

I can NOT understand it FOR YOU.

Context to Isaiah 42:8 is idolatry - no amount of copy and pasting will change that.

 

[face2face]

Firstborn FROM the Dead?


WHO, is this “HIS”?
WHAT, WHEN, HOW....Did “HIS” death occur?

Dont you know the Christ received an inheritance?
You cant inherit something if its already in your possession - dont you believe Christ is God? How so an inheritance?

 

[face2face]

@Taken @Johann

Lets dig a little deeper into Isaiah 42 shall we?

Who is the audience being spoken to in Isaiah 42:6-7 ?

Who is the audience being spoken to in Isaiah 42:8-9 ?

Expecting two one word answers.